Two Ways to Build a Winning Basketball Program

[AuburnNTexas 7,174]

In recent years there have been two types of winning programs in college basketball.

1. Kentucky Style - Recruit a bunch of 5 * Freshman have a great coach who molds them that year to try and go all the way then start over next year as they all go to the Pro's.

This takes a school with a Basketball Pedigree that top players want to go to, a great coach and recruiter. There aren't to many Kentucky's out there.

2. Year after year recruit solid classes. Keep the players together and coach them up. Team plays cohesively as one unit, everybody buys into tough defense, getting after loose balls, getting to the boards setting picks, finding the open man or the hot man. Win and lose as a team.

Requires a coach that can judge talent, character, class. This coach can recruit to fit his coaching philosophy. This coach works with his players so that each player gets better every year. We see these teams in second tier conferences all the time but every year their teams seem to have a shot at the top 16.

I was hoping that when we picked Barbie we were on the path to the 2nd type of Program and that after a few solid seasons we would get a couple of upper 4 lower 5 star players and have a chance to win it all. Barbee seemed to be able to do this at UTEP.

Can Barbee coach a player up it is hard to say since the majority of his players leave after the first year. You see his freshman come in get some PT have some good games and some smell up the house games then they leave fan's say they would never be SEC Caliber Players and he is replacing them with better players then process is repeated.

Almost all Freshman come in with an exagerated believe in the Basketball abilities they have all been Big fish in small ponds. After a taste of big time basketball in their Freshman year where they got outmuscled, outsmarted and out teamed by older players they realize they have a lot to learn. They are probably more receptive to working out and being coached because for the first time in their life's they realize they are not as good as they thought but if they have the right character they still believe in themselves and will do the work it takes to get better. Ego meets reality and reality wins.

I was one of Barbee;s biggest supporters but seeing us losing part of another freshman class and not having a chance for team chemistry to develop I believe that Barbee should be on the hot seat this year and anything less than a winning overall record and at least middle of the pack in the SEC then he should be sent packing.

[AU64 10,122]

In recent years there have been two types of winning programs in college basketball.

1. Kentucky Style - Recruit a bunch of 5 * Freshman have a great coach who molds them that year to try and go all the way then start over next year as they all go to the Pro's.

This takes a school with a Basketball Pedigree that top players want to go to, a great coach and recruiter. There aren't to many Kentucky's out there.

2. Year after year recruit solid classes. Keep the players together and coach them up. Team plays cohesively as one unit, everybody buys into tough defense, getting after loose balls, getting to the boards setting picks, finding the open man or the hot man. Win and lose as a team.

Requires a coach that can judge talent, character, class. This coach can recruit to fit his coaching philosophy. This coach works with his players so that each player gets better every year. We see these teams in second tier conferences all the time but every year their teams seem to have a shot at the top 16.

I was hoping that when we picked Barbie we were on the path to the 2nd type of Program and that after a few solid seasons we would get a couple of upper 4 lower 5 star players and have a chance to win it all. Barbee seemed to be able to do this at UTEP.

Can Barbee coach a player up it is hard to say since the majority of his players leave after the first year. You see his freshman come in get some PT have some good games and some smell up the house games then they leave fan's say they would never be SEC Caliber Players and he is replacing them with better players then process is repeated.

Almost all Freshman come in with an exagerated believe in the Basketball abilities they have all been Big fish in small ponds. After a taste of big time basketball in their Freshman year where they got outmuscled, outsmarted and out teamed by older players they realize they have a lot to learn. They are probably more receptive to working out and being coached because for the first time in their life's they realize they are not as good as they thought but if they have the right character they still believe in themselves and will do the work it takes to get better. Ego meets reality and reality wins.

I was one of Barbee;s biggest supporters but seeing us losing part of another freshman class and not having a chance for team chemistry to develop I believe that Barbee should be on the hot seat this year and anything less than a winning overall record and at least middle of the pack in the SEC then he should be sent packing.

I'm good with that. As for losing players this spring....I guess I'm not too concerned since it appears to be deliberate and the "replacements" seem to address some specific needs. All this transferring around seems to be a way of life in college basketball these days....an amazing amount of activity from kids who expected to play at school X...ended up on someone's bench and decided to move along to Y or Z hoping to address an immediate need at one of those schools. JMO but Barbee's future at AU is heavily dependent on what the NCAA decides about Seagears.

[Mikey 16,738]

In recent years there have been two types of winning programs in college basketball.

1. Kentucky Style - Recruit a bunch of 5 * Freshman have a great coach who molds them that year to try and go all the way then start over next year as they all go to the Pro's.

This takes a school with a Basketball Pedigree that top players want to go to, a great coach and recruiter. There aren't to many Kentucky's out there.

2. Year after year recruit solid classes. Keep the players together and coach them up. Team plays cohesively as one unit, everybody buys into tough defense, getting after loose balls, getting to the boards setting picks, finding the open man or the hot man. Win and lose as a team.

Requires a coach that can judge talent, character, class. This coach can recruit to fit his coaching philosophy. This coach works with his players so that each player gets better every year. We see these teams in second tier conferences all the time but every year their teams seem to have a shot at the top 16.

I was hoping that when we picked Barbie we were on the path to the 2nd type of Program and that after a few solid seasons we would get a couple of upper 4 lower 5 star players and have a chance to win it all. Barbee seemed to be able to do this at UTEP.

Can Barbee coach a player up it is hard to say since the majority of his players leave after the first year. You see his freshman come in get some PT have some good games and some smell up the house games then they leave fan's say they would never be SEC Caliber Players and he is replacing them with better players then process is repeated.

Almost all Freshman come in with an exagerated believe in the Basketball abilities they have all been Big fish in small ponds. After a taste of big time basketball in their Freshman year where they got outmuscled, outsmarted and out teamed by older players they realize they have a lot to learn. They are probably more receptive to working out and being coached because for the first time in their life's they realize they are not as good as they thought but if they have the right character they still believe in themselves and will do the work it takes to get better. Ego meets reality and reality wins.

I was one of Barbee;s biggest supporters but seeing us losing part of another freshman class and not having a chance for team chemistry to develop I believe that Barbee should be on the hot seat this year and anything less than a winning overall record and at least middle of the pack in the SEC then he should be sent packing.

Excellent post. I agree with the two ways of winning. #1 is out of the question for us and as far as #2 is concerned, Barbee hasn't been able to keep players here long enough to develop experience and team chemistry.

I had high hopes for Barbee but if he doesn't somehow turn it around next year it will be time for all concerned to turn the page and move on.

Quote: "JMO but Barbee's future at AU is heavily dependent on what the NCAA decides about Seagears." Maybe so, but it's a rather serious indictment against a coach if, in his fourth year he has to hope against hope that the NCAA will waive a rule and let him have one transfer player. If his program has to hang on that he hasn't done much building in the previous three years.

[NoALtiger 3,873]

Well, if Barbee isn't on the hot seat then I don't know if there's anything that will put him there. Surely there has to be some tangible record/proof that the program is getting better for him to return.

[AU64 10,122]

Well, if Barbee isn't on the hot seat then I don't know if there's anything that will put him there. Surely there has to be some tangible record/proof that the program is getting better for him to return.

I don't think many folks would disagree with that. This is make or break for him.

[juscAUse 1]

I had a UAT fan about my age look me in the eye and say ..."there is no way that Saban is the greatest coach ever. He HAS to have better players than you,and they have to buy into his system or he'll discard them and get better. Whatever happened to take what you got and coach 'em up?" This is a different sport and I know you must have good players, but is it not your job to convince these players that- if they do what you say- they CAN beat Kentucky one day, and get that trophy? Fundamentals appear to be non-existent for AU. I watched us lose game after game because we can't seem to make a 12ft shot with no one guarding us. A double screen is always set late, and the weave is done so far above the top of the key to be totally worthless as far as proper spacing is concerned. But I said the same thing about the last coach. I was right then. I think I'm right now. And a point guard that can shoot 40% from the three point line would be nice, too.

[auburn4ever 1,266]

To build a winning sports programs, you must first have an AD who knows how to hire the top coaches. The must also know when it's time to fire a coach when he or she has done nothing in their last 5 to 6 years and stop throwing your support towards that coach.

[WarTiger 3,923]

To build a winning sports programs, you must first have an AD who knows how to hire the top coaches. The must also know when it's time to fire a coach when he or she has done nothing in their last 5 to 6 years and stop throwing your support towards that coach.

Do you really live under a rock?? How could you be this clueless? Barbee just finished his FOURTH season. Pawlowski was fired after his 5th. Chizik was fired after his FOURTH season. Malzahn is about to start his first year and Flournoy just finished her FIRST year. There is ZERO foundation for your post seeing as how NONE of the those coaches at their current position have been here five or six years. The one that was here for five years was just shown the door not being "thrown support" as you put it. You need to start paying attention.

/my apologies to the original poster for this mild hijack of the thread, but it irritates me when people are so filled with hatred towards one person (in this case Jay Jacobs) that they have ZERO concept of reality or actual TRUTH and FACTS.

[AuburnNTexas 7,174]

To build a winning sports programs, you must first have an AD who knows how to hire the top coaches. The must also know when it's time to fire a coach when he or she has done nothing in their last 5 to 6 years and stop throwing your support towards that coach.

Do you really live under a rock?? How could you be this clueless? Barbee just finished his FOURTH season. Pawlowski was fired after his 5th. Chizik was fired after his FOURTH season. Malzahn is about to start his first year and Flournoy just finished her FIRST year. There is ZERO foundation for your post seeing as how NONE of the those coaches at their current position have been here five or six years. The one that was here for five years was just shown the door not being "thrown support" as you put it. You need to start paying attention.

/my apologies to the original poster for this mild hijack of the thread, but it irritates me when people are so filled with hatred towards one person (in this case Jay Jacobs) that they have ZERO concept of reality or actual TRUTH and FACTS.

No apology needed. While I am not in or out of Jacob's corner at this time. If you don't like him at least get your facts right when you bag on him.

[Mikey 16,738]

To build a winning sports programs, you must first have an AD who knows how to hire the top coaches. The must also know when it's time to fire a coach when he or she has done nothing in their last 5 to 6 years and stop throwing your support towards that coach.

Do you really live under a rock?? How could you be this clueless? Barbee just finished his FOURTH season. Pawlowski was fired after his 5th. Chizik was fired after his FOURTH season. Malzahn is about to start his first year and Flournoy just finished her FIRST year. There is ZERO foundation for your post seeing as how NONE of the those coaches at their current position have been here five or six years. The one that was here for five years was just shown the door not being "thrown support" as you put it. You need to start paying attention.

/my apologies to the original poster for this mild hijack of the thread, but it irritates me when people are so filled with hatred towards one person (in this case Jay Jacobs) that they have ZERO concept of reality or actual TRUTH and FACTS.

No apology needed. While I am not in or out of Jacob's corner at this time. If you don't like him at least get your facts right when you bag on him.

If we're really going for accuracy here, Barbee just finished his third season at Auburn, not his fourth. After watching the games it just seems like four or five seasons.

[WarTiger 3,923]

To build a winning sports programs, you must first have an AD who knows how to hire the top coaches. The must also know when it's time to fire a coach when he or she has done nothing in their last 5 to 6 years and stop throwing your support towards that coach.

Do you really live under a rock?? How could you be this clueless? Barbee just finished his FOURTH season. Pawlowski was fired after his 5th. Chizik was fired after his FOURTH season. Malzahn is about to start his first year and Flournoy just finished her FIRST year. There is ZERO foundation for your post seeing as how NONE of the those coaches at their current position have been here five or six years. The one that was here for five years was just shown the door not being "thrown support" as you put it. You need to start paying attention.

/my apologies to the original poster for this mild hijack of the thread, but it irritates me when people are so filled with hatred towards one person (in this case Jay Jacobs) that they have ZERO concept of reality or actual TRUTH and FACTS.

No apology needed. While I am not in or out of Jacob's corner at this time. If you don't like him at least get your facts right when you bag on him.

If we're really going for accuracy here, Barbee just finished his third season at Auburn, not his fourth. After watching the games it just seems like four or five seasons.

oops. Yep. you are right. He was hired on March 24, 2010. Which makes the statement from the poster I originally quoted even more ridiculous and off base.

[cptau 169]

UK didn't use to be a type 1. They were a type 2 under Pitino and Smith. The Type 1 one and done setup was forced in 2006 when the NBA prohibited HS players from being drafted out of HS. Calipari started his one and done system at Memphis and perfected it at UK. It's a great system for winning if you get the right players that gel as a team in one year.

It worked for Calipari in 06(final 8) 07(final 8) 08(runner up) 09( final 16) 10 (final 8), 11 (final 4) , and 12 (champs). It crashed this year ending with with an NIT loss to James Madison. Calipari will have to be back with a final 4 type team next year or he will find Lexington to be a hot place next winter... The type 1 systems also means you have to keep your stars moving on after one year to the NBA to make room for the new HS stars. Otherwise, the coach has to use processing to make room......

The players under a type 1 setup go from there to the NBA draft mostly on talent. They don't have long to learn new skills on a college court. As a college basketball fan I would rather see them play 2 or 3 years before they get drafted, but the millions they make in the NBA and the risk of career ending injuries won't let that happen.

There are still places for but not enough type 2 coaches. They have to be at schools that are OK with having a good team every year and a great team every 5 or 6 years.

[auburn4ever 1,266]

As before, all this crap is on Jay Jacobs shoulders yet again. Another really bad hire.

[WarTiger 3,923]

As before, all this crap is on Jay Jacobs shoulders yet again. Another really bad hire.

Like your first post in this thread you remain clueless and uneducated on the topic. Your hatred for jacobs has completely blinded you to any facts. Get educated on the topic then speak. It will help you immensely. Good luck with that but I don't have very high expectations.

[douggwilliams 61]

As before, all this crap is on Jay Jacobs shoulders yet again. Another really bad hire.

Like your first post in this thread you remain clueless and uneducated on the topic. Your hatred for jacobs has completely blinded you to any facts. Get educated on the topic then speak. It will help you immensely. Good luck with that but I don't have very high expectations.

Im on the side of not reading any of the previous posts and condemning JJ. Whatever you guys were discussing probably comes down to the fact that JJ is AD and we have losing teams across the board. If that is not the summary, I apologize. Fire JJ.

[auburn4ever 1,266]

Other than the 2010 football championship team, our sports teams hasn't done crap since Jay Jacobs became Auburn's AD. Look at all he bad hires with huge buyouts he's made.

[WarTiger 3,923]

Other than the 2010 football championship team, our sports teams hasn't done crap since Jay Jacobs became Auburn's AD. Look at all he bad hires with huge buyouts he's made.

That has ZERO to do with your previous statement in this thread that was COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY WRONG.

You wrote: "The must also know when it's time to fire a coach when he or she has done nothing in their last 5 to 6 years and stop throwing your support towards that coach."

I pointed out how completely unfounded that statement of yours is, and all you do is constantly chant the fire jay jacobs mantra. Look at the major sports: Chizik: 4 years - FIRED, Barbee: 3 years, Pawlowski: 5 years - FIRED. Fournoy - 1 year. The ONLY coach that was around longer than 5 years in any sport is/was Tina Deese our women's softball coach. Newsflash: She was fired at the end of the 2012-2013 season. There is NO COACH at Auburn that was been thrown support after doing nothing for 5 or 6 years. In fact NONE even made it past 5 years, much less had support "thrown to them".

Do you even know that Auburn has hired a new baseball coach AND a new softball coach? I'm guessing you probably don't have a clue. To help out, we hired Sunny Golloway as baseball coach. He previously coached at Oklahoma. We hired Clint Meyers as Softball coach. He was at Arizona State for the last 8 years. His teams out there went to the Women's College World Series for 7 out of the 8 years he was there AND won 2 National Titles. Oh, we've also hired a new football coach. His name is Gus Malzahn. He came from Arkansas State as HC and was Offensive Coordinator at Auburn from 2009-2011.

I'm guessing there will be ZERO Response from you to this, unless you chime in with your ridiculous fire jacobs mantra.