The VA - Is it a lack of MONEY or Incompetence?

[Tigermike 3,425]

VA Spending Per Patient Exploded Amid Deadly Delays

By JOHN MERLINE, INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY

Posted 05/20/2014 06:53 PM ET

As soon as the mushrooming scandal at the Veterans Affairs Department erupted, blame focused on budget shortfalls for chronic delays in treatment.

Several VA hospitals have been accused of falsifying records to cover up delays in treating patients in desperate need.

In Phoenix, as many as 40 veterans may have died as a result.

Sen. Jay Rockefeller, D-W.Va., argued that the main cause of the delays is money: "If the VA does not have enough doctors to see these patients, then these problems are a result of a lack of funding."

NBC News chief Pentagon reporter Jim Miklaszewski argued the same point on Sunday's "Meet the Press."

"You have a VA that is overwhelmed and under-resourced," he said. "There's just not enough money right now in the federal government to fix it."

Newspaper editorials, too, are picking up this theme. As one put it: "Officials at all levels of government have known for years that the VA lacks the resources to adequately serve the growing number of veterans who come under the agency's care."

It sounds good. And it would seem to make sense.

But it's far from true.

Less For More

The VA's budget has been exploding, even as the number of veterans steadily declines. From 2000 to 2013, outlays nearly tripled, while the population of veterans declined by 4.3 million.

Medical care spending — which consumes about 40% of the VA's budget — has climbed 193% over those years, while the number of patients served by the VA each year went up just 68%, according to data from the VA.

From 2008 to 2012 alone, per-patient spending at the VA climbed 27%. To put that in perspective, per capita health spending nationwide rose just 13% during those years.

And per-enrollee spending for Medicare went up only 10%, government data show.

Some will argue that the increase in health spending was the direct result of all those wounded warriors coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan.

But these vets aren't driving VA costs higher.

A Congressional Budget Office report found that they cost $4,800, on average, in 2010 compared with $8,800 for other veterans who used the system.

It also found that while these Iraq and Afghan vets account for 7% of those treated, they were responsible for only 4% of its health costs.

Recent Vets Cheaper

Iraq and Afghan vets, the report found, "are typically younger and healthier than the average VHA patient and as a result are less expensive to treat."

A separate CBO report found that while "veterans from recent conflicts will represent a fast-growing share of enrollments in VA health care ... the share of VA's resources devoted to the care of those veterans is projected to remain small through 2020."

What's more, the main reason for the growth in enrollment in the VA's health service wasn't those two wars; it was the Veterans' Health Care Eligibility Reform Act of 1996, signed by President Clinton, "which required the VA to provide care to certain types of veterans, such as those with service-connected disabilities, and permitted VA to offer services to additional veterans if funding permitted," the CBO report noted.

In addition, in 1999 the VA let even those with relatively high incomes enroll, the CBO said.

So something other than war-related health costs and insufficient budget resources would appear to be causing the chronic failures at VA clinics to deliver care in a timely fashion to veterans who need it.

That points to the fact that, unlike Medicare, Medicaid and, now, ObamaCare — which rely on private doctors and hospitals to provide subsidized or free care — the VA is a completely government-run system, with its own hospitals, clinics and providers.

As the department notes, it operates the nation's largest integrated health care system, with more than 1,700 hospitals, clinics and other facilities.

For years, proponents of a single-payer health care system lauded the VA for this very reason, saying it was a model for the rest of the country.

"Yes, this is 'socialized medicine,'" wrote liberal economist Paul Krugman in 2011, "But it works — and suggests what it will take to solve the troubles of U.S. health care more broadly."

Krugman also attacked then-presidential candidate Mitt Romney, who at one point floated a plan to privatize the VA system.

link

It doesn't appear to be lack of money.

[AU_Tiger_88 417]

It never has been about the money...Governments and bureaucrats can't do healthcare well....We had a VA hospital admit my Dad and he came out worse than he went in which started the slide down hill for him....I cannot blame it entirely on the hospital but I would visit him and they weren't feeding him (he was so sick he couldn't feed himself). Got him out of the hospital and took care of him ourselves. There are great people that work for the VA and care but the red tape and policies that put road blocks in place needs to be cleaned up. Typical government layers of policies end up costing us more and more in taxes while providing worse overall care.

[autigeremt 6,970]

Government agencies dependent on congressional money and presidential leadership rarely do well. A major change is needed to correct this, and many other problems that we have within our government. Sad day in our nations history when we won't do the right thing for the real 1%.

[DKW 86 7,726]

I am sorry but this is the Federal Govt at work.

Congress gives an increase in spending and reaps the whirlwind of cash flowing back to them.

Nothing changes. All the incompetence and disregard for improving anything comes to the front.

It is the DC Four Step:

1) Find a problem.

2) Demagogue it to death.

3) Throw tons of money at it.

4) Reform/Improve Nothing.

Rinse & Repeat....

[TheBlueVue 177]

I am sorry but this is the Federal Govt at work.

Congress gives an increase in spending and reaps the whirlwind of cash flowing back to them.

Nothing changes. All the incompetence and disregard for improving anything comes to the front.

It is the DC Four Step:

1) Find a problem.

2) Demagogue it to death.

3) Throw tons of money at it.

4) Reform/Improve Nothing.

Rinse & Repeat....

^^Perfect synopsis^^^

[japantiger 4,077]

Sad, but true.

[cptau 169]

As the first article above mentions, the VA initially served veterans with combat or service related medical conditions. The military healthcare system took care of them while on active duty, but once discharged they went to the VA. Veterans with 100% disability to a small disability level could be treated. The second group of veterans are those that do not have service related health problems, but qualify for treatment based on lower income and lack of adequate insurance coverage. The VA seems to be allowing more and more of the second group.

Military retires have separate insurance coverage based on Tri-Care. http://www.tricare.mil/

Democrat in Congress are already wanting more money for the VA to help cover this up, but money has not been the problem. The VA has been running surpluses.

http://dailycaller.com/2014/05/27/va-expects-to-have-more-medical-care-funding-than-it-can-spend-for-the-fifth-year-in-a-row/

The Obama administration’s Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) expects to have more money for medical care than it can spend for the fifth fiscal year in a row, The Daily Caller has learned.

Republican lawmakers and veteran groups are currently calling for the resignation of VA Secretary Eric Shinseki over secret waiting lists kept at the Phoenix VA Medical Center that led to preventable veteran deaths.

Despite liberal claims that VA needs more funding, based on a report from the labor union the American Federation of Government Employees (AFGE) that VA is underfunded, the scandal-plagued department actually has a surplus in medical-care funding.

VA expects to carry over $450 million in medical-care funding from fiscal year 2014 to fiscal year 2015. VA received its full requested medical care appropriation of $54.6 billion this fiscal year, which is more than $10 billion more than it received four years ago.

This is part of an ongoing trend.

VA carried over $1.449 billion in medical-care funding from fiscal year 2010 to 2011, $1.163 billion from fiscal year 2011 to fiscal year 2012, $637 million from fiscal year 2012 to 2013, and $543 million from fiscal year 2013 to 2014.

The Daily Caller reported that VA spent more than $3.5 million on furniture the night before the government shutdown on the last day of fiscal year 2013 so as not to lose that money in the department’s budget the next fiscal year.

[autigeremt 6,970]

If it were climate change or civil rights they'd be all over this. It has to be a priority for it to be addressed.

[DKW 86 7,726]

If it were climate change or civil rights they'd be all over this. It has to be a priority for it to be addressed.

It doesnt benefit the friends of those in the press. Therefore, only token coverage will be allowed.

[homersapien 11,812]

If it were climate change or civil rights they'd be all over this. It has to be a priority for it to be addressed.

Too bad Hillary Clinton can't be associated with it, huh?

[TheBlueVue 177]

If it were climate change or civil rights they'd be all over this. It has to be a priority for it to be addressed.

Too bad Hillary Clinton can't be associated with it, huh?

It doesn't matter. I wish her the best but i\I dont see her as barry's successor to the White House. Too much baggage and look, the Clinton franchise is not as imposing as liberals would love for you to believe. I hope she does run. if nothing else it'll be decent theatre

[homersapien 11,812]

If it were climate change or civil rights they'd be all over this. It has to be a priority for it to be addressed.

Too bad Hillary Clinton can't be associated with it, huh?

It doesn't matter. I wish her the best but i\I dont see her as barry's successor to the White House. Too much baggage and look, the Clinton franchise is not as imposing as liberals would love for you to believe. I hope she does run. if nothing else it'll be decent theatre

That post wasn't literally about Hillary.

[autigeremt 6,970]

If it were climate change or civil rights they'd be all over this. It has to be a priority for it to be addressed.

Too bad Hillary Clinton can't be associated with it, huh?

It doesn't matter. I wish her the best but i\I dont see her as barry's successor to the White House. Too much baggage and look, the Clinton franchise is not as imposing as liberals would love for you to believe. I hope she does run. if nothing else it'll be decent theatre

That post wasn't literally about Hillary.

No but the truth is there for all to see....just like the fact that the Marine being held in Mexico for no real season has gotten zero support from this blatantly dysfunctional administration....and it's being done on purpose.

[augolf1716 21,646]

OK I will say this one more time. My dad was a 100% disable vet from WWII in the Philippines. From the Destroyer they took him to the VA in San Francisco and he stayed there for 6 years while we lived in Al. From the VA in Frisco he was moved to then VA in B'ham for another 13 years. The VA took great care of my Dad and I learned to hate the smell of the VA Hosp. in B'ham. I can still smell it as we type. Once again the VA hosp. staff were fantastaic. I will never say anything bad about the VA until now if what we are hearing is true. It is truly horrible to hear. My Dad lived to the age of 63 due the great care the VA done. And yes the government paid for my education to Auburn due to my Dads disablity and was the best in the world to work with as long as I made the grades. Not sure what I'm trying to say but War Vet's need to be taken care of without question

[autigeremt 6,970]

OK I will say this one more time. My dad was a 100% disable vet from WWII in the Philippines. From the Destroyer they took him to the VA in San Francisco and he stayed there for 6 years while we lived in Al. From the VA in Frisco he was moved to then VA in B'ham for another 13 years. The VA took great care of my Dad and I learned to hate the smell of the VA Hosp. in B'ham. I can still smell it as we type. Once again the VA hosp. staff were fantastaic. I will never say anything bad about the VA until now if what we are hearing is true. It is truly horrible to hear. My Dad lived to the age of 63 due the great care the VA done. And yes the government paid for my education to Auburn due to my Dads disablity and was the best in the world to work with as long as I made the grades. Not sure what I'm trying to say but War Vet's need to be taken care of without question

You are so right but the VA back then knew it's mission and it was simple. Over the years it has been twisted to become a part of the social security "contract" with people and the government. The environment that allowed a once proud and responsible agency has been corrupted by a lack of oversight and more so by an administration who doesn't give a damn about veterans or anyone who they see as adversarial. Veterans typically vote GOP, whether they should or not. That makes us a tool just like any other group they see as adversarial or ignorant.

[DKW 86 7,726]

Get this little morsel of flagrant stoopidity from...Think Progress...

http://thinkprogress...of-its-quality/

You cannot make this stuff up.

"it’s true that VA Health Care is not of the same quality as health care elsewhere—it’s better:

— “An answer came in 2003, when the prestigious New England Journal of Medicine published a study that compared veterans health facilities on 11 measures of quality with fee-for-service Medicare.

On all 11 measures, the quality of care in veterans facilities proved to be ‘significantly better.’”

— “The Annals of Internal Medicine recently published a study that compared veterans health facilities with commercial managed-care systems in their treatment of diabetes patients.

In seven out of seven measures of quality, the VA provided better care

.”

— “Winning NCQA’s seal of approval is the gold standard in the health-care industry. And who do you suppose this year’s winner is: Johns Hopkins? Mayo Clinic? Massachusetts General? Nope.

In every single category, the VHA system outperforms the highest rated non-VHA hospitals

.”

One can go on like this. It is, obviously, possible for a government-run health delivery system to perform poorly. But it’s also possible for a government-run delivery system to deliver excellent quality. And in the United States, the VHA appears to be the highest performing major system of providers that exists."

[homersapien 11,812]

Get this little morsel of flagrant stoopidity from...Think Progress...

http://thinkprogress...of-its-quality/

You cannot make this stuff up.

"it’s true that VA Health Care is not of the same quality as health care elsewhere—it’s better:

— “An answer came in 2003, when the prestigious New England Journal of Medicine published a study that compared veterans health facilities on 11 measures of quality with fee-for-service Medicare.

On all 11 measures, the quality of care in veterans facilities proved to be ‘significantly better.’”

— “The Annals of Internal Medicine recently published a study that compared veterans health facilities with commercial managed-care systems in their treatment of diabetes patients.

In seven out of seven measures of quality, the VA provided better care

.”

— “Winning NCQA’s seal of approval is the gold standard in the health-care industry. And who do you suppose this year’s winner is: Johns Hopkins? Mayo Clinic? Massachusetts General? Nope.

In every single category, the VHA system outperforms the highest rated non-VHA hospitals

.”

One can go on like this. It is, obviously, possible for a government-run health delivery system to perform poorly. But it’s also possible for a government-run delivery system to deliver excellent quality. And in the United States, the VHA appears to be the highest performing major system of providers that exists."

You are correct. You can't make that up.

[homersapien 11,812]

If it were climate change or civil rights they'd be all over this. It has to be a priority for it to be addressed.

Too bad Hillary Clinton can't be associated with it, huh?

It doesn't matter. I wish her the best but i\I dont see her as barry's successor to the White House. Too much baggage and look, the Clinton franchise is not as imposing as liberals would love for you to believe. I hope she does run. if nothing else it'll be decent theatre

That post wasn't literally about Hillary.

No but the truth is there for all to see....just like the fact that the Marine being held in Mexico for no real season has gotten zero support from this blatantly dysfunctional administration....and it's being done on purpose.

And that has nothing to do with my post as far as I can tell. Why are you quoting me?

[autigeremt 6,970]

If it were climate change or civil rights they'd be all over this. It has to be a priority for it to be addressed.

Too bad Hillary Clinton can't be associated with it, huh?

It doesn't matter. I wish her the best but i\I dont see her as barry's successor to the White House. Too much baggage and look, the Clinton franchise is not as imposing as liberals would love for you to believe. I hope she does run. if nothing else it'll be decent theatre

That post wasn't literally about Hillary.

No but the truth is there for all to see....just like the fact that the Marine being held in Mexico for no real season has gotten zero support from this blatantly dysfunctional administration....and it's being done on purpose.

And that has nothing to do with my post as far as I can tell. Why are you quoting me?

Just a follow up of the conversation.

[cptau 169]

Get this little morsel of flagrant stoopidity from...Think Progress...

http://thinkprogress...of-its-quality/

You cannot make this stuff up.

"it’s true that VA Health Care is not of the same quality as health care elsewhere—it’s better:

— “An answer came in 2003, when the prestigious New England Journal of Medicine published a study that compared veterans health facilities on 11 measures of quality with fee-for-service Medicare.

On all 11 measures, the quality of care in veterans facilities proved to be ‘significantly better.’”

— “The Annals of Internal Medicine recently published a study that compared veterans health facilities with commercial managed-care systems in their treatment of diabetes patients.

In seven out of seven measures of quality, the VA provided better care

.”

— “Winning NCQA’s seal of approval is the gold standard in the health-care industry. And who do you suppose this year’s winner is: Johns Hopkins? Mayo Clinic? Massachusetts General? Nope.

In every single category, the VHA system outperforms the highest rated non-VHA hospitals

.”

One can go on like this. It is, obviously, possible for a government-run health delivery system to perform poorly. But it’s also possible for a government-run delivery system to deliver excellent quality. And in the United States, the VHA appears to be the highest performing major system of providers that exists."

A lot of the negatives about the VA medical system comes from the post Vietnam era. Just think about the movies they made about the vets coming back and the hospitals. While I was in the military in the mid 70s no one talked about the VA hospitals in glowing terms.

Vietnam saw lots of badly injured soldiers saved by medical technology and the use helicopters. The lived, but many were badly disabled. Iraq and Afghanistan saw soldiers wearing amazing body armor that kept many of them alive when the were hit by explosives, but they suffered horrible wounds too. In earlier wars those guys would have died on the spot in battle.

One of my uncles was wounded at Anzio in WWII. His head wound left him mostly paralyzed on one side of his body making him 100% disabled. He wore braces and took lots of medication for the rest of his life. He spent time in the VA hospital every year or so. The VA also provided him a special car that allowed him to drive some.

the VA does what it can for most of these guys, but they can't fix them, no one can.

[DKW 86 7,726]

I dont think that anyone expects them to be fixed. We want them comforted and cared for tho. It is minimal service. What we get now is no better than what we got in the 70s. My best friend is a SEAL, wounded, stabbed several times and shot in the knee. His care is going down hill. They are running him all over the state. My own problems with the VA took 8 Years & Senators Shelby & Sessions, & Rep Mo Brooks just get to an interview. Some of yall remember me talking about it. After 8 years i was talking to a PhD who could not possibly have cared less if my problem was solved or not. She was, as she told me, "just reading the script." Vets are not asking for the world, just a little respect and minimal care.

[TheBlueVue 177]

"Vets are not asking for the world, just a little respect and minimal care."

When considering the fact that the VA is second in funding only to the Dept of Defense with a budget of $150 billion dollars I think it is a fair question to ask why aren't they getting it. The left wants everyone to believe the answer to every issue is more money but look at this mess. Obama has asked for $164 billion in his new budget. What is happening to all that money?

The bottom line is it isn't a lack of funding that is the problem. The problem is the govt employees union that the vast majority of Veteran Admin employees are members of. Nobody there can be fired no matter what, they cant have their shifts changed or have their job description changed and they are eligible to earn bonuses. What? Until this union's power is checked the problems will NEVER be solved. Its really a damned shame.

[augolf1716 21,646]

Get this little morsel of flagrant stoopidity from...Think Progress...

http://thinkprogress...of-its-quality/

You cannot make this stuff up.

"it’s true that VA Health Care is not of the same quality as health care elsewhere—it’s better:

— “An answer came in 2003, when the prestigious New England Journal of Medicine published a study that compared veterans health facilities on 11 measures of quality with fee-for-service Medicare.

On all 11 measures, the quality of care in veterans facilities proved to be ‘significantly better.’”

— “The Annals of Internal Medicine recently published a study that compared veterans health facilities with commercial managed-care systems in their treatment of diabetes patients.

In seven out of seven measures of quality, the VA provided better care

.”

— “Winning NCQA’s seal of approval is the gold standard in the health-care industry. And who do you suppose this year’s winner is: Johns Hopkins? Mayo Clinic? Massachusetts General? Nope.

In every single category, the VHA system outperforms the highest rated non-VHA hospitals

.”

One can go on like this. It is, obviously, possible for a government-run health delivery system to perform poorly. But it’s also possible for a government-run delivery system to deliver excellent quality. And in the United States, the VHA appears to be the highest performing major system of providers that exists."

A lot of the negatives about the VA medical system comes from the post Vietnam era. Just think about the movies they made about the vets coming back and the hospitals. While I was in the military in the mid 70s no one talked about the VA hospitals in glowing terms.

Vietnam saw lots of badly injured soldiers saved by medical technology and the use helicopters. The lived, but many were badly disabled. Iraq and Afghanistan saw soldiers wearing amazing body armor that kept many of them alive when the were hit by explosives, but they suffered horrible wounds too. In earlier wars those guys would have died on the spot in battle.

One of my uncles was wounded at Anzio in WWII. His head wound left him mostly paralyzed on one side of his body making him 100% disabled. He wore braces and took lots of medication for the rest of his life. He spent time in the VA hospital every year or so. The VA also provided him a special car that allowed him to drive some.

the VA does what it can for most of these guys, but they can't fix them, no one can.

excellent post cp and very informative

[Guest NC1406]

I dont think that anyone expects them to be fixed. We want them comforted and cared for tho. It is minimal service. What we get now is no better than what we got in the 70s. My best friend is a SEAL, wounded, stabbed several times and shot in the knee. His care is going down hill. They are running him all over the state. My own problems with the VA took 8 Years & Senators Shelby & Sessions, & Rep Mo Brooks just get to an interview. Some of yall remember me talking about it. After 8 years i was talking to a PhD who could not possibly have cared less if my problem was solved or not. She was, as she told me, "just reading the script." Vets are not asking for the world, just a little respect and minimal care.

DKW, is there anything we can do to assist in medical needs for you or your friend that served as a SEAL? Please share here or privately if that is more comfortable. Thanks for your service!

[DKW 86 7,726]

Message sent...