"Running Back U"

[kwren34 18]

Another joke of an article by our friends at ESPN. They ranked schools from the 2000 season until last season.

Link

[AUbritt 611]

They only ranked in the 2000s, so it's understandable (especially if you look at the awards). BTW, ESPN also ranked Auburn #6 in terms of QBs for the 2000s.

I still think we are all-time RBU.

[CJBas 4]

Last I checked Cam Newton was one hell of a running back also. Seems like he did win an award or two, if memory serves me correctly.

[JwgreDeux 1,279]

I actually enjoyed the article. I disagree with the points system they choose, placing so much emphasis on awards, and would have liked to see what each schools actual production was. Overall, not a terrible article.

[mcgufcm 4,107]

It is kind of an odd points system. The scale is built to skew the numbers toward one transcendent player over any school that churns out All-Conference or All-America level players on an annual basis, but I'm guessing every fan and coaching staff would rather have the latter over the former.

Example, McFadden got 30 points for two Doak Walker awards and one Walter Camp, 16 points for two consensus All-American selections, 18 points for three first-team All-SEC selections, and another 8 points for being a first-round pick. He posts 72 points by himself. Would you really prefer McFadden to Rudi, Cadillac, Ronnie, Irons, Tate, AND Mason (74 points combined)? Really? Would Arkansas fans even make that trade? Of course not.

If you'd rather your team be fourth than first, it's kind of a silly system.

[cammycam2 173]

Last I checked Cam Newton was one hell of a running back also. Seems like he did win an award or two, if memory serves me correctly.

Not sure if serious.

[AUEngineer2016 407]

Last I checked Cam Newton was one hell of a running back also. Seems like he did win an award or two, if memory serves me correctly.

Not sure if serious.

It's a valid argument. In 2010, we used Cam the same way we'd use a big bruiser back, especially in short yardage situations. We'd just give it to him and let him find a way to get the first down/TD. You could argue that Marshall should be on this list as well, as he rushed for over 1K yards this past year, which is insane for a QB. The weird thing is that they included Jay Prosch, who did cary the ball in 2012 once or twice, but I don't think ever carried the ball for us this year.

One thing that I noticed from this list was the difference in draft picks. Of the teams ahead of us (Arky, OU, and Bama), nobody has more 1st round picks (Arky, Bama, and AU all tied with 2, OU has 1), and we have more 2-4 round draft picks than anyone (AU - 5, Bama - 3, OU - 2, Arky - 2), and nobody has more overall draft picks than us (AU - 8, Bama - 8, OU - 6, Arky - 6).

[cammycam2 173]

Cam newton was not a running back. Im not quite sure how else to slice it.

[JFDTiger80 791]

They only ranked in the 2000s, so it's understandable (especially if you look at the awards). BTW, ESPN also ranked Auburn #6 in terms of QBs for the 2000s.

I still think we are all-time RBU.

I think we as AU fans like to think we are RBU, but it would be hard to argue against USCw for this over a period of history. I think we should make a top group for this along with a few other schools such as: USCw, Ohio State, UGA, Alabama.

We have certainly had our share of great backs, and we look like we have great backs on the team now.

[AUEngineer2016 407]

Cam newton was not a running back. Im not quite sure how else to slice it.

Okay, let me put it to you this way. I have a back in my offense who in 1 season had 264 rushing attempts netting 1,473 yards and 20 TDs. I have another back who in 2 seasons accounted for 12 attempts netting 38 yards and 2 TDs. I also have a third back who in one season, had 263 attempts netting 1,362 yards and 10 TDs. Want to guess who they are?

Back #1: Cam Newton. Seasons: 2010. Heisman trophy winner.

Back #2: Jay Prosch. Seasons: 2012 and 2013 (had ZERO rushing attempts in 2013 despite being in the #1 rushing offense).

Back #3: Ben Tate. Seasons: 2009. Primary back used in Gus's 1st Auburn season.

Of these 3 backs, 2 were counted in ESPN's analysis. They counted Jay Prosch and Ben Tate. Now, that's not to take anything away from JP, he was fantastic at what he did, which was opening up huge holes for our RBs to run through, but if he was a running back, then Cam certainly should be. Of the three mentioned above, he had the most attempts (1 more than Tate), the most yards (111 more than Tate) and the most TDs (10 more than Tate).

The definition of a "Running Back" is (and I'm quoting) "an offensive player, typically a halfback, who specializes in carrying the ball." Notice that it said the word "typically" in the definition, not "always". I would say that Cam specialized in carrying the ball, as we not only had entire formations based around his ability to gain yards on the ground, we also ran play-action fakes off of his running ability. Defenses that we played against were forced to scheme against his running ability.

He may not be the "classic" running back who lines up in the I-formation and takes a handoff or pitch from the QB, but that doesn't mean that he was not both a Running Back and a Quarterback.

[WarEagle84 0]

By definition, you cannot be a Running Back and a Quarterback on the same play. You can have a running QB (there have been plenty, before and since Cam), but in the history of the sport, no QB has been classified as a RB for statistical (or any other) purposes. This is a silly argument.

[mcgufcm 4,107]

Indeed. They say "typically a halfback" because they are also including fullbacks and tailbacks (in offenses that employ all three). It's not meant to include a quarterback that happens to run the ball well. Even Cam threw it more than he ran it at Auburn.

[AUEngineer2016 407]

By definition, you cannot be a Running Back and a Quarterback on the same play. You can have a running QB (there have been plenty, before and since Cam), but in the history of the sport, no QB has been classified as a RB for statistical (or any other) purposes. This is a silly argument.

I'm not arguing that he was a QB and a RB on the same play. I'm arguing that he specialized in running and therefore should be considered a RB.

Take for instance Darren McFadden at Arkansas. Many times, he would line up and take a direct snap from the center, make a fake to a WR coming across the formation, and then run it up the middle, a play called the "Wildcat Power". At Auburn, Gus ran this same exact play, but with Cam taking the snap instead of McFadden. On this play, Cam has no intention of ever throwing the football, and many times had no intention of handing it off to the guy coming on the speed sweep. He would simply provide the fake to force the defense to respect the sweep and to soften it up so that he could run into the middle and gain some yards.

McFadden and Cam were used in the same roles in the same formation. IMO on these plays, Cam was not a Quarterback, he played the role of the running back, or as Gus calls it, the "Wildcat Super Back".

[mcgufcm 4,107]

Even assuming this is true, that he wasn't reading the defense but instead it was a called run, the VAST majority of his plays were not that play. He threw the ball 280 times, he ran the ball on plays with a pass option some of the time, he ran the ball on called pass plays some of the time, etc. Even accepting your argument, he was primarily a passer who happened to be really great at running the ball when asked.

[Tiger 8,841]

Well, Darren McFadden threw some passes too under Gus so they should take him off the list and consider him a QB. Actually Cam caught a pass in 2010 so he's actually a WR too. Well, nevermind I think he might have blocked a player on a perimeter run also, maybe we should change his position to TE/FB/H-Back.

Is Lebron James a Center because he occasionally works out of the post? Nope.

I get it, I really do. Some on here want to add another notch to RBU by putting Cam Newton, the best QUARTERBACK AU has ever had on campus, as a RB on the list. But c'mon, we don't need to reach so hard here. He didn't take a single handoff at Auburn, not one. Also if you look at his rushing stats, you will see sacks and the lost yardage of these sacks listed. Cam Newton was so damn good that he was the first RB in the history of football to be sacked. Now I see why they put a statue of him on campus.......

[ToraGirl 5,498]

Cam newton was not a running back. Im not quite sure how else to slice it.

You're technically right...but depending upon the need at the time, he sure looked like plenty of things besides "just a" quarterback!

[Rednilla 5,406]

While it is not measured this way by most statisticians, Cam Newton was most assuredly a running back. Just because he was a quarterback does not diminish from the fact that he was a back, which is defined as any player who lines up off of the line of scrimmage (which technically also includes linebackers and defensive backs, if you want to get really picky about it), and he sure enough ran the ball, now didn't he? It's all a matter of the terminology used...

Is it football season yet?

[VAtiger12 112]

I feel like Ben Tate has been really undervalued on this list and just in general.

[Rednilla 5,406]

I feel like Ben Tate has been really undervalued on this list and just in general.

My previous comments aside, rest assured that in no way do I undervalue him. There aren't too many guys who can say they started for three years at halfback for Auburn, but he can, and he was often the only bright spot the offense had in the waning years of xCTT's tenure before his breakout year when Gus started calling the plays for him. We've been talking about Fannin's speed, and while I do think he was a step faster when fully healthy, that's only because Supa Mario was a freak in his own right. Ben ran a 4.43 at the combine after weighing in at 220, so he can book it, too...and more than that was his artistry with waiting for blocks and knowing when to accelerate through the hole. Hard to teach that.

[WarEagle84 0]

By definition, you cannot be a Running Back and a Quarterback on the same play. You can have a running QB (there have been plenty, before and since Cam), but in the history of the sport, no QB has been classified as a RB for statistical (or any other) purposes. This is a silly argument.

I'm not arguing that he was a QB and a RB on the same play. I'm arguing that he specialized in running and therefore should be considered a RB.

Take for instance Darren McFadden at Arkansas. Many times, he would line up and take a direct snap from the center, make a fake to a WR coming across the formation, and then run it up the middle, a play called the "Wildcat Power". At Auburn, Gus ran this same exact play, but with Cam taking the snap instead of McFadden. On this play, Cam has no intention of ever throwing the football, and many times had no intention of handing it off to the guy coming on the speed sweep. He would simply provide the fake to force the defense to respect the sweep and to soften it up so that he could run into the middle and gain some yards.

McFadden and Cam were used in the same roles in the same formation. IMO on these plays, Cam was not a Quarterback, he played the role of the running back, or as Gus calls it, the "Wildcat Super Back".

It's still a silly argument. Cam played QB, even when he kept the ball on a designed run. You're asking us to redefine a position to boost Auburn's standing in a rather arbitrary ESPN ranking. Not happening.

[hutchids 227]

that is literally a joke. They were run dmc and nothing. You can't give them rbu for one great back and good one (felix)

[Rednilla 5,406]

By definition, you cannot be a Running Back and a Quarterback on the same play. You can have a running QB (there have been plenty, before and since Cam), but in the history of the sport, no QB has been classified as a RB for statistical (or any other) purposes. This is a silly argument.

I'm not arguing that he was a QB and a RB on the same play. I'm arguing that he specialized in running and therefore should be considered a RB.

Take for instance Darren McFadden at Arkansas. Many times, he would line up and take a direct snap from the center, make a fake to a WR coming across the formation, and then run it up the middle, a play called the "Wildcat Power". At Auburn, Gus ran this same exact play, but with Cam taking the snap instead of McFadden. On this play, Cam has no intention of ever throwing the football, and many times had no intention of handing it off to the guy coming on the speed sweep. He would simply provide the fake to force the defense to respect the sweep and to soften it up so that he could run into the middle and gain some yards.

McFadden and Cam were used in the same roles in the same formation. IMO on these plays, Cam was not a Quarterback, he played the role of the running back, or as Gus calls it, the "Wildcat Super Back".

It's still a silly argument. Cam played QB, even when he kept the ball on a designed run. You're asking us to redefine a position to boost Auburn's standing in a rather arbitrary ESPN ranking. Not happening.

While it is not measured this way by most statisticians, Cam Newton was most assuredly a running back. Just because he was a quarterback does not diminish from the fact that he was a back, which is defined as any player who lines up off of the line of scrimmage (which technically also includes linebackers and defensive backs, if you want to get really picky about it), and he sure enough ran the ball, now didn't he? It's all a matter of the terminology used...

Is it football season yet?

[AUEngineer2016 407]

By definition, you cannot be a Running Back and a Quarterback on the same play. You can have a running QB (there have been plenty, before and since Cam), but in the history of the sport, no QB has been classified as a RB for statistical (or any other) purposes. This is a silly argument.

I'm not arguing that he was a QB and a RB on the same play. I'm arguing that he specialized in running and therefore should be considered a RB.

Take for instance Darren McFadden at Arkansas. Many times, he would line up and take a direct snap from the center, make a fake to a WR coming across the formation, and then run it up the middle, a play called the "Wildcat Power". At Auburn, Gus ran this same exact play, but with Cam taking the snap instead of McFadden. On this play, Cam has no intention of ever throwing the football, and many times had no intention of handing it off to the guy coming on the speed sweep. He would simply provide the fake to force the defense to respect the sweep and to soften it up so that he could run into the middle and gain some yards.

McFadden and Cam were used in the same roles in the same formation. IMO on these plays, Cam was not a Quarterback, he played the role of the running back, or as Gus calls it, the "Wildcat Super Back".

It's still a silly argument. Cam played QB, even when he kept the ball on a designed run. You're asking us to redefine a position to boost Auburn's standing in a rather arbitrary ESPN ranking. Not happening.

I mean, if we want to get really technical about it, the entire term "Running Back" is used incorrectly. More than likely, when people talk about the running back, they are really talking about the tailback, which was coined because the tailback traditionally lined up at the tail-end of the I formation. The term running back is exactly what it sounds like, the back who is running the ball. Ergo, if Cam lined up off the line of scrimmage (making him a back) and was the ball carrier on a running play, he was the running back. He may not have been the tailback, the halfback, or the fullback, and heck, he could've also been the Quarterback on the play, but because he was the BACK who RAN the ball, he was the RUNNING BACK. (Caps for emphasis).

Edit: Here (http://youtu.be/eQvNr6Te6JM) is a link to Gus explaining the wildcat power play. I want you to notice what position is not written on his whiteboard- running back. He has someone designated as a tailback, as a quarterback, and even as a wildcat super back, but not as a Running Back, because the running back is the back who is running the ball, be that the tailback, the halfback, the fullback, or, yes, even the quarterback.

Edit #2: Just for emphasis, here (http://youtu.be/nCXR5cUDmrU) is a different play that is set up in a different formation. Again, notice, no. RB on Gus's board. Again, the RB is the back that is running the ball, in this case, the tailback (the play is the shotgun buck sweep).

[WarEagle84 0]

Running back is a generic term that includes tailbacks, halfbacks, and fullbacks (because most causal fans don't know the differences). I would expect a coach to be more specific when diagramming plays. Never has a QB been classified as a running back, even though he is technically a back who is running the ball. Try starting Cam or RGIII as a RB on your fantasy football team.

I'll say it a third and final time, this is a silly argument.

[Tiger 8,841]

I guess we don't have any WR's on the roster since Gus' play diagram only includes X's, Y's, and Z's.