Indiana backlash grows ahead of Final Four

[Weegle777 78]

Funny thread. If I were a bakery owner, I would have a GIGANTIC sign in my window that reads:

"WE SERVE EVERYONE WITH EXCELLENCE."

"COME ONE, COME ALL."

I would use this political climate to my advantage to get business.

[homersapien 11,386]

Funny thread. If I were a bakery owner, I would have a GIGANTIC sign in my window that reads:

"WE SERVE EVERYONE WITH EXCELLENCE."

"COME ONE, COME ALL."

I would use this political climate to my advantage to get business.

That's already happening. And it's exactly why this is such a poor case to use as an example of discrimination. It is self-solving.

[alexava 6,973]

Funny thread. If I were a bakery owner, I would have a GIGANTIC sign in my window that reads:

"WE SERVE EVERYONE WITH EXCELLENCE."

"COME ONE, COME ALL."

I would use this political climate to my advantage to get business.

That's already happening. And it's exactly why this is such a poor case to use as an example of discrimination. It is self-solving.

maybe a conservative group could start a "go fund me" account for these muslims too. The alliances will be more confusing than the middle east.

[TitanTiger 20,499]

People of good will starting to step forward. May their tribe increase.

Should Mom-and-Pops That Forgo Gay Weddings Be Destroyed?

Conor Friedersdorf

Apr 3 2015, 6:46 AM ET

Mario Anzuoni/Reuters

What do white evangelicals, Muslims, Mormons, blacks, conservative Republicans, and immigrants from Africa, South America, and Central America all have in common? They're less likely to support gay marriage than the average Californian. Over the years, I've patronized restaurants owned by members of all those groups. Today, if I went out into Greater Los Angeles and chatted up owners of mom-and-pop restaurants, I'd sooner or later find one who would decline to cater a gay wedding. The owners might be members of Rick Warren's church in Orange County. Or a family of immigrants in Little Ethiopia or on Alvera Street. Or a single black man or woman in Carson or Inglewood or El Segundo.

Should we destroy their livelihoods?

If I recorded audio proving their intent to discriminate against a hypothetical catering client and I gave the audio to you, would you post it on the Internet and encourage the general public to boycott, write nasty reviews, and drive them out of business, causing them to lay off their staff, lose their life savings, and hope for other work? If that fate befell a Mormon father with five kids or a childless Persian couple in their fifties or a Hispanic woman who sunk her nest egg into a papusa truck, should that, do you think, be considered a victory for the gay-rights movement?

Before this week, I'd have guessed that few people would've considered that a victory for social justice. And I'd have thought that vast majorities see an important distinction between a business turning away gay patrons—which would certainly prompt me to boycott—and declining to cater a gay wedding. I see key distinctions despite wishing everyone would celebrate gay marriage and believing Jesus himself would have no problem with a baker or cook acting as a gay-wedding vendor. A restaurant that turned away all gay patrons would be banning them from a public accommodation every day of their lives. It might unpredictably or regularly affect their ability to meet a business client or dine with coworkers or friends. It would have only the most dubious connection to religious belief.

Whereas declining to cater a gay wedding affects people on one day of their life at most, denies them access to no public accommodation, and would seem to signal discomfort with the institution of same-sex marriage more than animus toward gay people (so long as we're still talking about businesses that gladly serve gays). I also suspect that the sorts of businesses that are uncomfortable catering a hypothetical gay wedding aren't uniquely averse to events where same-sex couples are celebrating nuptials. I'd wager, for example, that they'd feel a religious obligation to refrain from catering an art exhibition filled with sacrilegious pieces like Piss Christ, the awards ceremony for pornography professionals, a Planned Parenthood holiday party, or a Richard Dawkins speaking engagement.

A faction of my fellow gay-marriage proponents see things differently.

The latest opponents of gay marriage to be punished for their religious objections to the practice are the owners of Memories Pizza in Walkerton, Indiana.

Matt Welch lays out what happened:

1)

Family owners of small-town Indiana pizzeria spend zero time or energy commenting on gay issues.

2)

TV reporter from South Bend walks inside the pizzeria to ask the owners what they think of the controversial Religious Restoration Freedom Act. Owner Crystal O'Connor responds, "If a gay couple came in and wanted us to provide pizzas for their wedding, we would have to say no….We are a Christian establishment." O'Connor also says—actually

promises

is the characterization

here

—that the establishment will continue to serve any gay or non-Christian person that walks through their door.

3)

The Internet explodes with insults directed at the O'Connor family

and its business, including a high school girls golf coach in Indiana who

tweets

"Who's going to Walkerton, IN to burn down #memoriespizza w me?" Many of the enraged critics assert, inaccurately, that Memories Pizza discriminates against gay customers.

4)

In the face of the backlash, the O'Connors

close the pizzeria temporarily

, and say they may never reopen, and in fact might leave the state. "I don't know if we will reopen, or if we can, if it's safe to reopen," Crystal O'Connor tells

The Blaze

. "I'm just a little guy who had a little business that I probably don't have anymore," Kevin O'Connor tells the

L.A. Times

.

The owners of Memories Pizza are, I think, mistaken in what their Christian faith demands of them. And I believe their position on gay marriage to be wrongheaded. But I also believe that the position I'll gladly serve any gay customers but I feel my faith compels me to refrain from catering a gay wedding is less hateful or intolerant than let's go burn that family's business to the ground.

And I believe that the subset of the gay-rights movement intent on destroying their business and livelihood has done more harm than good here—that they've shifted their focus from championing historic advances for justice to perpetrating small injustices against marginal folks on the other side of the culture war. "The pizzeria discriminated against nobody," Welch wrote, "merely said that it would choose not to serve a gay wedding if asked. Which it never, ever would be, because who asks a small-town pizzeria to cater a heterosexual wedding, let alone a gay one?" They were punished for "expressing a disfavored opinion to a reporter."

To what end?

Proponents of using the state to punish businesses like this often draw analogies to Jim Crow. Julian Sanchez has persuasively addressed the shortcomings of that argument (even presuming that opponents of gay marriage are motivated by bigotry):

...The “purist” libertarian position that condemns all anti-discrimination laws, including the 1964 Civil Rights Act, as a priori unjust violations of sacrosanct property rights is profoundly misguided and historically blinkered. We were not starting from Year Zero in a Lockean state of nature, but dealing with the aftermath of centuries of government-enforced slavery and segregation—which had not only hopelessly tainted property distributions but created deficits in economic and social capital transmitted across generations to the descendants of slaves. The legacy of state-supported white supremacism, combined with the very real threat of violence against businesses that wished to integrate, created a racist structure so pervasive that unregulated “private” discrimination would have and did effectively deprive black citizens of civic equality and a fair opportunity to participate in American public life.

We ultimately settled on rules barring race discrimination in employment, housing, and access to “public accommodations”—which, though it clearly restricted the associational freedom of some racist business owners within a limited domain, was nevertheless justifiable under the circumstances: The interest in restoring civic equality was so compelling that it trumped the interest in associational choice within that sphere. But we didn’t deny the existence of that interest—appalling as the racist’s exercise of it might be—and continue to recognize it in other domains. A racist can still invite only neighbors of certain races to dinner parties, or form exclusive private associations, or as a prospective employee choose to consider only job offers from firms run or staffed primarily by members of their own race. Partly, of course, this is because regulations in these domains would be difficult or impossible to enforce—but partly it’s because the burden on associational freedom involved in requiring nondiscrimination in these realms would be unacceptably high.

Some of the considerations supporting our limited prohibition of racial discrimination apply to discrimination against gay Americans. But some don’t. Sexual orientation, unlike race, is not transmitted across generations, which means a gay person born in 1980 is not starting from a position of disadvantage that can be traced to a legacy of homophobic laws in the same way that a black person born in 1980 is likely to be disadvantaged by centuries of government-enforced racism. We don’t see the same profound and persistent socioeconomic disparities. Sexual orientation is also not generally obvious to casual observation in a commercial context, which as a practical matter makes exclusion more costly and labor intensive for the bigot. And while I’ve seen any number of claims that allowing private orientation discrimination would give rise to a new Jim Crow era, the fact is that such discrimination is already perfectly legal in most of the country, and it seems as though very few businesses are actually interested in pursuing such policies.

Rather, the actual cases we’ve been hearing about recently involve bigoted* photographers or bakers—who run small businesses but are effectively acting as short-term employees—who balk at providing their services to gay couples who are planning weddings. (I take for granted that gay marriage should, of course, be legal everywhere.)

What’s the balance of burdens in these cases? The discrimination involved here doesn’t plausibly deny the gay couples effective civic equality: There are plenty of bakers and photographers who would be only too happy to take their money. Under the circumstances, the urge to either fine or compel the services of these misguided homophobes comes across as having less to do with avoiding dire practical consequences for the denied couple than it does with symbolically punishing a few retrograde yokels for their reprehensible views. And much as I’d like for us all to pressure them to change those views—or at the very least shame them into changing their practices—if there turn out to be few enough of them that they’re not creating a systemic problem for gay citizens, it’s hard to see an interest sufficiently compelling to justify legal compulsion—especially in professions with an inherently expressive character, like photography. In short: Yes, these people are a**holes, but that alone doesn’t tell us how to balance their interest in expressive association against competing interests at this particular point in our history.

Perhaps that excerpt convinced some readers to rethink using state coercion to punish an atypically religious baker, photographer, or pizza seller, but they remain convinced that informal punishment of the Memories Pizza family is still appropriate.

The question I'd ask those who want to use non-state means to punish mom-and-pop businesses that decline to cater gay weddings is what, exactly, their notion of a fair punishment is. Nearly every supporter of gay marriage is on board with efforts to publicly tell people that their position is wrongheaded–I've participated in efforts like that for years and insist that respectful critique and persuasion is more effective than shaming. What about other approaches? If their Yelp rating goes down by a star does the punishment fit the "crime"? Is there a financial loss at which social pressure goes from appropriate to too much? How about putting them out of business? Digital mobs insulting them and their children? Email and phone threats from anonymous Internet users? If you think that any of those go too far have you spoken up against the people using those tactics?

(If not, is it because you're afraid they might turn on you?)

A relatively big digital mob has been attacking this powerless family in rural Indiana,** but I don't get the sense that its participants have reflected on or even thought of these questions. I don't think they recognize how ugly, intolerant and extreme their actions appear or the effect they'll have on Americans beyond the mainstream media, or that their vitriolic shaming these people has ultimately made them into martyrs. I fear that a backlash against their tactics will weaken support for the better angels of the gay rights movement at a time when more progress needs to be made, and that they're turning traditionalists into a fearful, alienated minority with a posture of defensiveness that closes them off to persuasion.

And that's a shame.

The religious impulse to shy away from even the most tangential interaction with gay weddings can be met with extremely powerful and persuasive counterarguments so long as we're operating in the realm of reason rather than coercion–so long as we're more interested in persuading than shaming or claiming scalps. Thanks to past persuasion, evangelicals are already evolving on this issue, as David Brooks points out, observing that "many young evangelicals understand that their faith should not be defined by this issue. If orthodox Christians are suddenly written out of polite society as modern-day Bull Connors, this would only halt progress, polarize the debate and lead to a bloody war of all against all."

As an example of a persuader, consider my colleague Jonathan Rauch, who advises the faithful that while they might mean "just leave us alone," others hear, "what we want most is to discriminate against you," a needlessly alienating message when there is "a missionary tradition of engagement and education, of resolutely and even cheerfully going out into an often uncomprehending world, rather than staying home with the shutters closed." He adds, "In this alternative tradition, a Christian photographer might see a same-sex wedding as an opportunity to engage and interact: a chance, perhaps, to explain why the service will be provided, but with a moral caveat or a prayer. Not every gay customer would welcome such a conversation, but it sure beats having the door slammed in your face." The best way forward for all sides is to love one another, or at least to act as though we do.

* While I grant that there are plenty of people whose opposition to gay marriage is rooted in bigotry, my belief is that some opposition to same-sex marriage is clearly not. I challenge anyone who disagrees to read (as just one of many counterexamples) the lovingly and beautifully written "Gay and Catholic: Accepting My Sexuality, Finding Community, Living My Faith," or even Mark Oppenheimer's well-written profile of its author, and to maintain the absolutist position.

** I'd be fascinated to how many grandparents of mob participants oppose gay marriage and what degree of social stigma they would want directed toward them.

http://m.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/should-businesses-that-quietly-oppose-gay-marriage-be-destroyed/389489/?utm_source=SFFB

[autigeremt 6,642]

This entire episode is 99% about one thing.........

2016

[AUFAN78 3,911]

I had an interesting lunch today with several local business members in the community. As usual, it was mostly informal . The Indiana RFRA topic was mentioned and the conversation enlightening. Included in this group were acquaintances from the gay community. I found their responses quite interesting. Now let me preface by saying these three are former well known activists. Today, they are each bright well received business leaders in the state.

Their take was far different from the MSM message. It was made clear today's "big gay lobby" was a hate filled group willing to burn businesses and issue death threats. A group willing to force their beliefs upon society. This is the antithesis of their former goal to stand up for values and what they believe as right and to respect others in kind. They cited a speech by a nationally syndicated gay author who urged the community to defend those under attack as are today's Christian community. It saddened each of them to see what has happened to a one time loving community. To each, it was a primary reason for leaving a once prideful and rewarding role. They denounced the MSM message as well as those that parrot their hate filled talking points. I harkened back to this very forum. I understand ignorance on the topic as most simply rely on their favorite news outlets for clarity. But, if you truly want the gospel, utilize some intelligence and dig a little deeper. You'll likely be rewarded for your effort.

[cooltigger21 0]

These activists won't be satisfied until they eliminate all opposition period. If today a court ruling or legislation said that ssm in all 50 states was legal and thst refusal to lend your talents to these events is not legal, they still would not be satisfied. There is a group in Wyoming calling for churches that opposed SSM to lose their tax exempt status. Something along that line will become the next cause for these activists and the msm. Gay rights are really just the flavor of the day. If it wasn't that they'd be pushing something else. They move from one cause to the next.

[GiveEmElle 1,559]

I agree with the theory that maybe this whole Pizzeria thing was just a way to drum up business after the Chik Fil A CEO comments a few years ago. It worked.

http://sdgln.com/news/2015/04/03/it-pays-be-anti-gay-bigot-pizzeria-fundraiser-rakes-half-million-bucks#sthash.XGwse6HK.cyQf5NNu.dpbs

[cooltigger21 0]

I agree with the theory that maybe this whole Pizzeria thing was just a way to drum up business after the Chik Fil A CEO comments a few years ago. It worked.

http://sdgln.com/new...K.cyQf5NNu.dpbs

Of course you believe it.

[TitanTiger 20,499]

I agree with the theory that maybe this whole Pizzeria thing was just a way to drum up business after the Chik Fil A CEO comments a few years ago. It worked.

http://sdgln.com/new...K.cyQf5NNu.dpbs

The reporter that walked in disagrees with you. The pizzaria owners didn't say anything that should have been that controversial.

Being a cynic is too easy. Folks are just pissed that the thing they thought would drive these folks from polite society backfired to this degree.

[AUFAN78 3,911]

More that "get it" are coming out.

The interview immediately went viral and sent “tolerant” liberals into bully mode. They sent thousands of threats to the shops owners on social media, forcing the shop to close down out of fear. But after a GoFundMe account was set up to help the shop owners survive the fallout, perhaps the most stunning contribution was one from a gay woman by the name of Courtney Hoffman, who donated $20 and made a tasteful, classy apology.

“As a member of the gay community, I would like to apologize for the mean-spirited attacks on you and your business,” Hoffman wrote. “I know many gay individuals who fully support your right to stand up for your beliefs and run your business according to those beliefs.

“We are outraged at the level of hate and intolerance that has been directed at you and I sincerely hope that you are able to rebuild,” Hoffman added.

[AUFAN78 3,911]

Local Indiana Station Ambushes Memories Pizza to Gin Up an RFRA Story

Something hasn’t seemed right about the Memories Pizza story from the get-go. Now I know why.

In a Tuesday report, TV Station ABC 57 cited the Walkerton, Indiana business’s Crystal O’Connor as saying that, in the station’s words, they “don’t agree with gay marriages and wouldn’t cater them if asked to.” In other words, they’ve never been asked to. The non-story which ignited a national firestorm is the result of a dangerously irresponsible ambush. The reporter involved admitted as much in a tweet late this morning:

In

a separate tweet, Marino indicated that “I don’t think anyone was really aware the attention this would get at the time of the interview. They just spoke their mind.”

Memories Pizza didn’t blast out a news release. They didn’t contact the media, nor make a stink on Twitter or Facebook. They didn’t even post a sign in the window rejecting gay-wedding catering jobs. They merely answered questions from a novice reporter who strolled into their restaurant one day – who was sent on a mission by an irresponsible news organization.

Memories Pizza didn’t “publicly vow to reject gay weddings” as HuffPo says it (Ott earlier noted that HuffPo’s headline was “Indiana’s Memories Pizza Reportedly Becomes First Business To Reject Catering Gay Weddings” — Ed.). The O’Connors were just, quite literally, minding their own business.

In the good old days, i.e., a few months ago, people with firm religious convictions weren’t harassed into abandoning their businesses until they actually refused to commit what they considered to be a sinful, same sex marriage-supportive act.

But now the Thought Police and their media firestorm creators can bring a business to the brink of a shutdown when its owner simply expresses an opinion about something that has never happened, and might never happen.

Oh, and here’s another side-effect of the thoughtless Thought Police:

Yes, Virginia, that’s a real threat, and explains why the O’Connors are “in hiding, basically.” The person who posted the tween has been relieved of her duties at an Indiana high school, and police are considering charges. How many others not stupid enough to tweet their intentions are out there?

Heckuva job, ABC 57, HuffPo, and other lynch mob members.

[cooltigger21 0]

Local Indiana Station Ambushes Memories Pizza to Gin Up an RFRA Story

Something hasn’t seemed right about the Memories Pizza story from the get-go. Now I know why.

In a Tuesday report, TV Station ABC 57 cited the Walkerton, Indiana business’s Crystal O’Connor as saying that, in the station’s words, they “don’t agree with gay marriages and wouldn’t cater them if asked to.” In other words, they’ve never been asked to. The non-story which ignited a national firestorm is the result of a dangerously irresponsible ambush. The reporter involved admitted as much in a tweet late this morning:

In

a separate tweet, Marino indicated that “I don’t think anyone was really aware the attention this would get at the time of the interview. They just spoke their mind.”

Memories Pizza didn’t blast out a news release. They didn’t contact the media, nor make a stink on Twitter or Facebook. They didn’t even post a sign in the window rejecting gay-wedding catering jobs. They merely answered questions from a novice reporter who strolled into their restaurant one day – who was sent on a mission by an irresponsible news organization.

Memories Pizza didn’t “publicly vow to reject gay weddings” as HuffPo says it (Ott earlier noted that HuffPo’s headline was “Indiana’s Memories Pizza Reportedly Becomes First Business To Reject Catering Gay Weddings” — Ed.). The O’Connors were just, quite literally, minding their own business.

In the good old days, i.e., a few months ago, people with firm religious convictions weren’t harassed into abandoning their businesses until they actually refused to commit what they considered to be a sinful, same sex marriage-supportive act.

But now the Thought Police and their media firestorm creators can bring a business to the brink of a shutdown when its owner simply expresses an opinion about something that has never happened, and might never happen.

Oh, and here’s another side-effect of the thoughtless Thought Police:

Yes, Virginia, that’s a real threat, and explains why the O’Connors are “in hiding, basically.” The person who posted the tween has been relieved of her duties at an Indiana high school, and police are considering charges. How many others not stupid enough to tweet their intentions are out there?

Heckuva job, ABC 57, HuffPo, and other lynch mob members.

Well according to our resident cynics, these people are actually just playing dumb to rake in a bunch of money from suckers.

[homersapien 11,386]

This entire episode is 99% about one thing.........

2016

Nah, the Democrats are not that organized.

But if they were, it would have been brilliant.

[autigeremt 6,642]

This entire episode is 99% about one thing.........

2016

Nah, the Democrats are not that organized.

But if they were, it would have been brilliant. ;D/>

I disagree. Guess who the chair of the Democratic Gov. Association is coming up? You guessed it. Gov. Malloy of CT.

If you think it's brilliant then I'm not surprised. Party over country.

[homersapien 11,386]

More that "get it" are coming out.

The interview immediately went viral and sent “tolerant” liberals into bully mode. They sent thousands of threats to the shops owners on social media, forcing the shop to close down out of fear. But after a GoFundMe account was set up to help the shop owners survive the fallout, perhaps the most stunning contribution was one from a gay woman by the name of Courtney Hoffman, who donated $20 and made a tasteful, classy apology.

“As a member of the gay community, I would like to apologize for the mean-spirited attacks on you and your business,” Hoffman wrote. “I know many gay individuals who fully support your right to stand up for your beliefs and run your business according to those beliefs.

“We are outraged at the level of hate and intolerance that has been directed at you and I sincerely hope that you are able to rebuild,” Hoffman added.

And Courtney was immediately informed by the organization that she had been demoted from "tolerant liberal" to a LINO.

And if she continues with such behavior, she will be stripped of her Lesbian status as well.

[AUFAN78 3,911]

More that "get it" are coming out.

The interview immediately went viral and sent “tolerant” liberals into bully mode. They sent thousands of threats to the shops owners on social media, forcing the shop to close down out of fear. But after a GoFundMe account was set up to help the shop owners survive the fallout, perhaps the most stunning contribution was one from a gay woman by the name of Courtney Hoffman, who donated $20 and made a tasteful, classy apology.

“As a member of the gay community, I would like to apologize for the mean-spirited attacks on you and your business,” Hoffman wrote. “I know many gay individuals who fully support your right to stand up for your beliefs and run your business according to those beliefs.

“We are outraged at the level of hate and intolerance that has been directed at you and I sincerely hope that you are able to rebuild,” Hoffman added.

And Courtney was immediately informed by the organization that she had been demoted from "tolerant liberal" to a LINO.

And if she continues with such behavior, she will be stripped of her Lesbian status as well.

[TitanTiger 20,499]

More that "get it" are coming out.

The interview immediately went viral and sent “tolerant” liberals into bully mode. They sent thousands of threats to the shops owners on social media, forcing the shop to close down out of fear. But after a GoFundMe account was set up to help the shop owners survive the fallout, perhaps the most stunning contribution was one from a gay woman by the name of Courtney Hoffman, who donated $20 and made a tasteful, classy apology.

“As a member of the gay community, I would like to apologize for the mean-spirited attacks on you and your business,” Hoffman wrote. “I know many gay individuals who fully support your right to stand up for your beliefs and run your business according to those beliefs.

“We are outraged at the level of hate and intolerance that has been directed at you and I sincerely hope that you are able to rebuild,” Hoffman added.

And Courtney was immediately informed by the organization that she had been demoted from "tolerant liberal" to a LINO.

And if she continues with such behavior, she will be stripped of her Lesbian status as well.

Hang on...how'd we get from pizzerias not catering gay weddings to lesbian strippers? This world's going to hell in handbasket!

[homersapien 11,386]

This entire episode is 99% about one thing.........

2016

Nah, the Democrats are not that organized.

But if they were, it would have been brilliant. ;D/>

I disagree. Guess who the chair of the Democratic Gov. Association is coming up? You guessed it. Gov. Malloy of CT.

If you think it's brilliant then I'm not surprised. Party over country.

You lost me. I have no idea what you are talking about.

I thought you meant baiting the GOP with this.

And puleeeze, "party over country"? That's a little dramatic. :-\

We are talking about politics, not the country. And even if we were, Keeping the Republicans out of the white house, or the Congress, or the Judicial system, is better for the country.

[AUFAN78 3,911]

More that "get it" are coming out.

The interview immediately went viral and sent “tolerant” liberals into bully mode. They sent thousands of threats to the shops owners on social media, forcing the shop to close down out of fear. But after a GoFundMe account was set up to help the shop owners survive the fallout, perhaps the most stunning contribution was one from a gay woman by the name of Courtney Hoffman, who donated $20 and made a tasteful, classy apology.

“As a member of the gay community, I would like to apologize for the mean-spirited attacks on you and your business,” Hoffman wrote. “I know many gay individuals who fully support your right to stand up for your beliefs and run your business according to those beliefs.

“We are outraged at the level of hate and intolerance that has been directed at you and I sincerely hope that you are able to rebuild,” Hoffman added.

And Courtney was immediately informed by the organization that she had been demoted from "tolerant liberal" to a LINO.

And if she continues with such behavior, she will be stripped of her Lesbian status as well.

Hang on...how'd we get from pizzerias not catering gay weddings to lesbian strippers? This world's going to hell in handbasket!

All in a days work on the AUFamily Poly Forum. Not surprising if you ask me.

[homersapien 11,386]

Hmmmm. Is this where the "party over country" thing come from emt?

http://www.huffingto..._n_7000580.html

Gays Hate America And Other Right-Wing Talking Points On Indiana

Right-wing talking heads have had a busy week defending Indiana's anti-LGBT "religious liberty" law, which critics say would allow business-owners to deny services to gay, lesbian and transgender people. They've also gone on the offensive, calling LGBT people everything from terrorists to America-haters. Here's a roundup of the most ridiculous reactions to the controversy:

LGBT Folk Are The REAL Bullies

Despite the fact that 83 percent of Americans identify as Christian -- that's 265 million people -- and LGBT folks account for around 3 percent of the population, one of the religious right's main talking points is that "religious liberty" is under attack by fascist LGBT people. And by under attack, they mean they are being forced to provide services to LGBT people on the same terms as they provide services to everyone else.

You have to give Fox News credit. They were able to find a gay conservative willing to spout this talking point. Speaking to Tucker Carlson, conservative radio host Tammy Bruce said, "[G]ay liberals have turned into bullies when our work is to stop that kind of behavior."

Scratch That; They're Terrorists

On "Fox & Friends," Bill O'Reilly went even further, comparing the outcry over Indiana's anti-LGBT law to the persecution of Christians in Kenya. "If you link everything together we just heard about terror attack in Kenya on Christians," O'Reilly said. "In the U.S. and in Western Europe you have a civil war between the secular progressives and traditional religious people. In both cases, Christians are targets."

In [insert Middle Eastern Country Here] They Kill Gays!

Another group right-wingers think have it made in the shade with Kool-Aid compared to conservative Christians are Muslims. So whenever LGBT people have the nerve to protest discrimination, they first have to condemn the violent treatment of gays in some Muslim countries, then be thankful they're not being thrown off roofs here in America.

Senator Tom Cotton of Arkansas thinks gays should take the passage of discriminatory legislation in

stride because, he told CNN's Wolf Blitzer, "In Iran, they hang you for the crime of being gay." So just be thankful, alright?

Opponents of Indiana Law Hate America

You'd think he's joking but he's not. Conservative radio host Mark Levin thinks that opponents of the Indiana law don't just hate Christians. "The people who oppose these laws hate liberty; they hate the Constitution," he said on his show earlier this week. "I'll go even further: They Hate America."

LGBT People Want To Close Down All The Churches

Mike Huckabee has LGBT people all figured out. According to the Fox host, "It won’t stop until there are no more churches, until there are no more people who are spreading the Gospel [...] and I’m talking now about the unabridged, unapologetic Gospel that is really God’s truth."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Be sure to click on the link to view the supporting video clips.

[cooltigger21 0]

Hmmmm. Is this where the "party over country" thing come from emt?

http://www.huffingto..._n_7000580.html

Gays Hate America And Other Right-Wing Talking Points On Indiana

Right-wing talking heads have had a busy week defending Indiana's anti-LGBT "religious liberty" law, which critics say would allow business-owners to deny services to gay, lesbian and transgender people. They've also gone on the offensive, calling LGBT people everything from terrorists to America-haters. Here's a roundup of the most ridiculous reactions to the controversy:

LGBT Folk Are The REAL Bullies

Despite the fact that 83 percent of Americans identify as Christian -- that's 265 million people -- and LGBT folks account for around 3 percent of the population, one of the religious right's main talking points is that "religious liberty" is under attack by fascist LGBT people. And by under attack, they mean they are being forced to provide services to LGBT people on the same terms as they provide services to everyone else.

You have to give Fox News credit. They were able to find a gay conservative willing to spout this talking point. Speaking to Tucker Carlson, conservative radio host Tammy Bruce said, "[G]ay liberals have turned into bullies when our work is to stop that kind of behavior."

Scratch That; They're Terrorists

On "Fox & Friends," Bill O'Reilly went even further, comparing the outcry over Indiana's anti-LGBT law to the persecution of Christians in Kenya. "If you link everything together we just heard about terror attack in Kenya on Christians," O'Reilly said. "In the U.S. and in Western Europe you have a civil war between the secular progressives and traditional religious people. In both cases, Christians are targets."

In [insert Middle Eastern Country Here] They Kill Gays!

Another group right-wingers think have it made in the shade with Kool-Aid compared to conservative Christians are Muslims. So whenever LGBT people have the nerve to protest discrimination, they first have to condemn the violent treatment of gays in some Muslim countries, then be thankful they're not being thrown off roofs here in America.

Senator Tom Cotton of Arkansas thinks gays should take the passage of discriminatory legislation in

stride because, he told CNN's Wolf Blitzer, "In Iran, they hang you for the crime of being gay." So just be thankful, alright?

Opponents of Indiana Law Hate America

You'd think he's joking but he's not. Conservative radio host Mark Levin thinks that opponents of the Indiana law don't just hate Christians. "The people who oppose these laws hate liberty; they hate the Constitution," he said on his show earlier this week. "I'll go even further: They Hate America."

LGBT People Want To Close Down All The Churches

Mike Huckabee has LGBT people all figured out. According to the Fox host, "It won’t stop until there are no more churches, until there are no more people who are spreading the Gospel [...] and I’m talking now about the unabridged, unapologetic Gospel that is really God’s truth."

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Be sure to click on the link to view the supporting video clips.

That's exactly what these people are after. You honestly think that all they are after is "equality" That is sadly naive. I said it before and I'll say it again. If we had Supreme court rulings or legislation that legalized SSM in all 50 states and made refusal to lend your talents to these events illegal, these people would not be satisfied with that.

No leftist activist is ever satisfied with things. They win one thing and then turn around and demand more. It never stops. There's already a group in Wyoming calling for churches that oppose SSM to have their tax exempt status taken away. That's only a small minority right now but you can bet they will start to gain more to their side as time goes on if we continue at the present pace. You said it yourself homer. If my religious freedom conflicts with something else outside the walls of the church then my religious freedom must lose. That's not religious freedom. The constitution says free exercise. Exercising my freedom doesn't end when I walk out the doors of the church building. Your inordinate fear of churches is really starting to get to you.

SSM and gay weddings and gay rights in general are just the latest in a long string of issues used by left wing activists for attacking traditional values in America. They use the same tactics on the environment, race, gun control, health care, taxes and anything else you can think of. This is just the flavor of the moment. These are alinskyites and they are following the playbook perfectly. These people have more in common with Lennin and Stalin than they do with Jefferson and Madison.

[AUFAN78 3,911]

Hmmmm. Is this where the "party over country" thing come from emt?

http://www.huffingto..._n_7000580.html

Gays Hate America And Other Right-Wing Talking Points On Indiana

Right-wing talking heads have had a busy week defending Indiana's anti-LGBT "religious liberty" law, which critics say would allow business-owners to deny services to gay, lesbian and transgender people. They've also gone on the offensive, calling LGBT people everything from terrorists to America-haters. Here's a roundup of the most ridiculous reactions to the controversy:

LGBT Folk Are The REAL Bullies

Despite the fact that 83 percent of Americans identify as Christian -- that's 265 million people -- and LGBT folks account for around 3 percent of the population, one of the religious right's main talking points is that "religious liberty" is under attack by fascist LGBT people. And by under attack, they mean they are being forced to provide services to LGBT people on the same terms as they provide services to everyone else.

You have to give Fox News credit. They were able to find a gay conservative willing to spout this talking point. Speaking to Tucker Carlson, conservative radio host Tammy Bruce said, "[G]ay liberals have turned into bullies when our work is to stop that kind of behavior."

Scratch That; They're Terrorists

On "Fox & Friends," Bill O'Reilly went even further, comparing the outcry over Indiana's anti-LGBT law to the persecution of Christians in Kenya. "If you link everything together we just heard about terror attack in Kenya on Christians," O'Reilly said. "In the U.S. and in Western Europe you have a civil war between the secular progressives and traditional religious people. In both cases, Christians are targets."

In [insert Middle Eastern Country Here] They Kill Gays!

Another group right-wingers think have it made in the shade with Kool-Aid compared to conservative Christians are Muslims. So whenever LGBT people have the nerve to protest discrimination, they first have to condemn the violent treatment of gays in some Muslim countries, then be thankful they're not being thrown off roofs here in America.

Senator Tom Cotton of Arkansas thinks gays should take the passage of discriminatory legislation in

stride because, he told CNN's Wolf Blitzer, "In Iran, they hang you for the crime of being gay." So just be thankful, alright?

Opponents of Indiana Law Hate America

You'd think he's joking but he's not. Conservative radio host Mark Levin thinks that opponents of the Indiana law don't just hate Christians. "The people who oppose these laws hate liberty; they hate the Constitution," he said on his show earlier this week. "I'll go even further: They Hate America."

LGBT People Want To Close Down All The Churches

Mike Huckabee has LGBT people all figured out. According to the Fox host, "It won’t stop until there are no more churches, until there are no more people who are spreading the Gospel [...] and I’m talking now about the unabridged, unapologetic Gospel that is really God’s truth."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Be sure to click on the link to view the supporting video clips.

I am sorry homes, this article reads like "oh crap, our lies have been exposed, even by some in the gay community! We have to fight back with more lies."

[AUUSN 823]

Outspoken NBA Hall of Famer Charles Barkley said Thursday that the debate over Indiana’s religious freedom law exposed Americans' fears towards the gay community.

“America’s always had a racial problem,” Barkley told CNN’s Chris Cuomo late Thursday evening.

“Now we have a homophobic problem,” he continued. “Any form of discrimination, you have to check it.”

Barkley added that Indiana’s latest legislation deliberately targeted people based on their sexual orientation. The retired basketball star, now an analyst on the TNT network, said that discussions about lost religious liberties were thus a false flag.

“Gay people didn’t go after Christians,” he argued. “They came after gay people. Let’s get that straight.”

“It’s strictly about discrimination,” Barkley claimed. “They just don’t like gay people. I wish they would just say that.”

Christians who oppress others “always hide behind the Bible,” concluded Barkley.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/237838-charles-barkley-america-has-a-homophobic-problem?utm_source=twitter

[TitanTiger 20,499]

Barkley can be funny and he'll cut through the noise and say what he thinks. But it doesn't mean he's an oracle without fault. He's wrong about people just not liking gays. Yes, there are some that just don't like them. Many, many more don't feel that way at all. They have some lines that in their minds they can't cross in terms of appearing to tacitly support certain actions or views or events, but they don't hate or dislike the people involved. And that applies to anyone - gay, straight or bi. I have good friends who are straight as an ironing board. They don't share the same views on premarital sex that I do. They've lived with their girlfriends for periods of time. These things are sin in my view. But I love them. I'd do almost anything for them. But if they thought it'd be funny to have a party celebrating 5 years of "shacking up" because of their views that marriage is an antiquated institution that's no longer necessary, I'd politely decline to attend. I'd probably send them a card or something congratulating them on 5 years of loving each other, but I couldn't celebrate such a thing, even in jest. And if they wanted me to cater it or do photography for it, I'd likewise have to decline.

Contrary to Barkley and apparently a lot of other folks whose thinking on this issue is about an inch deep, you can like someone, even literally love someone with all your heart to the point of taking a bullet for them or giving a kidney to them - and still have disagreements over some aspects of their lives or their views on something and feel you can't participate, celebrate or otherwise go along with those things. It happens. Real people are able to accept that and still be friends or at least kind toward each other.

America should try it sometime.