Why its hard to Talk about Racism

[cole256 17,084]

*SNIP*

The cycle dies Cole. It's not 100%, but with each generation bit thoughts of the last waste away.

Never seems like it's moving fast enough though, does it?

Nope. Tired of the labels myself....I didn't own anyone.

No, you didn't. You did, however, have some advantages from being a member of a privileged class. So did I.

(I said the "P" word. Now the fun begins. ;D/>)

Let's see. I grew up a poor kid on a Mill Hill that had long since degraded into a remnant of itself. Only by the grace of God did I not end up a child of the state. Yeah....I'd say I owe everyone a ton by now.

I didn't say your road was easy.

I didn't choose my birth "rights" either.

Smh

[icanthearyou 4,463]

*SNIP*

The cycle dies Cole. It's not 100%, but with each generation bit thoughts of the last waste away.

Never seems like it's moving fast enough though, does it?

Nope. Tired of the labels myself....I didn't own anyone.

No, you didn't. You did, however, have some advantages from being a member of a privileged class. So did I.

(I said the "P" word. Now the fun begins. )

Let's see. I grew up a poor kid on a Mill Hill that had long since degraded into a remnant of itself. Only by the grace of God did I not end up a child of the state. Yeah....I'd say I owe everyone a ton by now.

I didn't say your road was easy.

I didn't choose my birth "rights" either.

You are not getting the point. No one is asking you to apologize. They are asking you to consider and understand.

[homersapien 11,396]

*SNIP*

The cycle dies Cole. It's not 100%, but with each generation bit thoughts of the last waste away.

Never seems like it's moving fast enough though, does it?

Nope. Tired of the labels myself....I didn't own anyone.

No, you didn't. You did, however, have some advantages from being a member of a privileged class. So did I.

(I said the "P" word. Now the fun begins. )

Let's see. I grew up a poor kid on a Mill Hill that had long since degraded into a remnant of itself. Only by the grace of God did I not end up a child of the state. Yeah....I'd say I owe everyone a ton by now.

I didn't say your road was easy.

I didn't choose my birth "rights" either.

You are not getting the point. No one is asking you to apologize. They are asking you to consider and understand.

Funny how conservatives get so defensive about showing empathy for the less fortunate. Wonder why that is?

[icanthearyou 4,463]

*SNIP*

The cycle dies Cole. It's not 100%, but with each generation bit thoughts of the last waste away.

Never seems like it's moving fast enough though, does it?

Nope. Tired of the labels myself....I didn't own anyone.

No, you didn't. You did, however, have some advantages from being a member of a privileged class. So did I.

(I said the "P" word. Now the fun begins. )

Let's see. I grew up a poor kid on a Mill Hill that had long since degraded into a remnant of itself. Only by the grace of God did I not end up a child of the state. Yeah....I'd say I owe everyone a ton by now.

I didn't say your road was easy.

I didn't choose my birth "rights" either.

You are not getting the point. No one is asking you to apologize. They are asking you to consider and understand.

Funny how conservatives get so defensive about showing empathy for the less fortunate. Wonder why that is?

I would not lump EMT into the group that has redefined "conservative". He will get it. He is a thoughtful and reasonable person,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,when he listens to me!

[homersapien 11,396]

*SNIP*

The cycle dies Cole. It's not 100%, but with each generation bit thoughts of the last waste away.

Never seems like it's moving fast enough though, does it?

Nope. Tired of the labels myself....I didn't own anyone.

No, you didn't. You did, however, have some advantages from being a member of a privileged class. So did I.

(I said the "P" word. Now the fun begins. )

Let's see. I grew up a poor kid on a Mill Hill that had long since degraded into a remnant of itself. Only by the grace of God did I not end up a child of the state. Yeah....I'd say I owe everyone a ton by now.

I didn't say your road was easy.

I didn't choose my birth "rights" either.

You are not getting the point. No one is asking you to apologize. They are asking you to consider and understand.

Funny how conservatives get so defensive about showing empathy for the less fortunate. Wonder why that is?

I would not lump EMT into the group that has redefined "conservative". He will get it. He is a thoughtful and reasonable person,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,when he listens to me!

Oh, I agree. I like EMT. I just don't get the defensiveness.

[AUFAN78 3,922]

*SNIP*

The cycle dies Cole. It's not 100%, but with each generation bit thoughts of the last waste away.

Never seems like it's moving fast enough though, does it?

Nope. Tired of the labels myself....I didn't own anyone.

No, you didn't. You did, however, have some advantages from being a member of a privileged class. So did I.

(I said the "P" word. Now the fun begins. )

Let's see. I grew up a poor kid on a Mill Hill that had long since degraded into a remnant of itself. Only by the grace of God did I not end up a child of the state. Yeah....I'd say I owe everyone a ton by now.

I didn't say your road was easy.

I didn't choose my birth "rights" either.

You are not getting the point. No one is asking you to apologize. They are asking you to consider and understand.

Funny how conservatives get so defensive about showing empathy for the less fortunate. Wonder why that is?

I would not lump EMT into the group that has redefined "conservative". He will get it. He is a thoughtful and reasonable person,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,when he listens to me!

Oh, I agree. I like EMT. I just don't get the defensiveness.

Maybe EMT is simply stating that many of us come from less fortunate situations. We can accept it or not. We have a choice.

Is that really defensiveness or rather an opportunistic view? Is truly caring for the poor saying we are sorry or is it showing them they have a choice?

[homersapien 11,396]

*SNIP*

The cycle dies Cole. It's not 100%, but with each generation bit thoughts of the last waste away.

Never seems like it's moving fast enough though, does it?

Nope. Tired of the labels myself....I didn't own anyone.

No, you didn't. You did, however, have some advantages from being a member of a privileged class. So did I.

(I said the "P" word. Now the fun begins. )

Let's see. I grew up a poor kid on a Mill Hill that had long since degraded into a remnant of itself. Only by the grace of God did I not end up a child of the state. Yeah....I'd say I owe everyone a ton by now.

I didn't say your road was easy.

I didn't choose my birth "rights" either.

You are not getting the point. No one is asking you to apologize. They are asking you to consider and understand.

Funny how conservatives get so defensive about showing empathy for the less fortunate. Wonder why that is?

I would not lump EMT into the group that has redefined "conservative". He will get it. He is a thoughtful and reasonable person,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,when he listens to me!

Oh, I agree. I like EMT. I just don't get the defensiveness.

Maybe EMT is simply stating that many of us come from less fortunate situations. We can accept it or not. We have a choice.

Is that really defensiveness or rather an opportunistic view? Is truly caring for the poor saying we are sorry or is it showing them they have a choice?

Saying "I didn't own slaves" is defensive.

And your last sentence is obviously specious.

[autigeremt 6,657]

It's only defensive to those with an agenda. I'm simply stating I've lived my life without privilege, I'm white, and I only owe others respect and dignity unless they prove otherwise......regardless of color. And I'm tired of the entire argument of white privilege when it should be defined as economic privilege.

[AUFAN78 3,922]

*SNIP*

The cycle dies Cole. It's not 100%, but with each generation bit thoughts of the last waste away.

Never seems like it's moving fast enough though, does it?

Nope. Tired of the labels myself....I didn't own anyone.

No, you didn't. You did, however, have some advantages from being a member of a privileged class. So did I.

(I said the "P" word. Now the fun begins. )

Let's see. I grew up a poor kid on a Mill Hill that had long since degraded into a remnant of itself. Only by the grace of God did I not end up a child of the state. Yeah....I'd say I owe everyone a ton by now.

I didn't say your road was easy.

I didn't choose my birth "rights" either.

You are not getting the point. No one is asking you to apologize. They are asking you to consider and understand.

Funny how conservatives get so defensive about showing empathy for the less fortunate. Wonder why that is?

I would not lump EMT into the group that has redefined "conservative". He will get it. He is a thoughtful and reasonable person,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,when he listens to me!

Oh, I agree. I like EMT. I just don't get the defensiveness.

Maybe EMT is simply stating that many of us come from less fortunate situations. We can accept it or not. We have a choice.

Is that really defensiveness or rather an opportunistic view? Is truly caring for the poor saying we are sorry or is it showing them they have a choice?

Saying "I didn't own slaves" is defensive.

And your last sentence is obviously specious.

I know a few people who have received the needed help to escape that oppressive environment and they would disagree with you.

[AUDub 11,160]

*SNIP*

The cycle dies Cole. It's not 100%, but with each generation bit thoughts of the last waste away.

Never seems like it's moving fast enough though, does it?

Nope. Tired of the labels myself....I didn't own anyone.

No, you didn't. You did, however, have some advantages from being a member of a privileged class. So did I.

(I said the "P" word. Now the fun begins. ;D/>)

Let's see. I grew up a poor kid on a Mill Hill that had long since degraded into a remnant of itself. Only by the grace of God did I not end up a child of the state. Yeah....I'd say I owe everyone a ton by now.

I didn't say your road was easy.

I didn't choose my birth "rights" either.

You are not getting the point. No one is asking you to apologize. They are asking you to consider and understand.

Funny how conservatives get so defensive about showing empathy for the less fortunate. Wonder why that is?

I would not lump EMT into the group that has redefined "conservative". He will get it. He is a thoughtful and reasonable person,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,when he listens to me! :poke:/>

Oh, I agree. I like EMT. I just don't get the defensiveness.

Maybe EMT is simply stating that many of us come from less fortunate situations. We can accept it or not. We have a choice.

Is that really defensiveness or rather an opportunistic view? Is truly caring for the poor saying we are sorry or is it showing them they have a choice?

Saying "I didn't own slaves" is defensive.

And your last sentence is obviously specious.

I know a few people who have received the needed help to escape that oppressive environment and they would disagree with you.

Ponder your statement.

[AUFAN78 3,922]

*SNIP*

The cycle dies Cole. It's not 100%, but with each generation bit thoughts of the last waste away.

Never seems like it's moving fast enough though, does it?

Nope. Tired of the labels myself....I didn't own anyone.

No, you didn't. You did, however, have some advantages from being a member of a privileged class. So did I.

(I said the "P" word. Now the fun begins. ;D/>)

Let's see. I grew up a poor kid on a Mill Hill that had long since degraded into a remnant of itself. Only by the grace of God did I not end up a child of the state. Yeah....I'd say I owe everyone a ton by now.

I didn't say your road was easy.

I didn't choose my birth "rights" either.

You are not getting the point. No one is asking you to apologize. They are asking you to consider and understand.

Funny how conservatives get so defensive about showing empathy for the less fortunate. Wonder why that is?

I would not lump EMT into the group that has redefined "conservative". He will get it. He is a thoughtful and reasonable person,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,when he listens to me! :poke:/>

Oh, I agree. I like EMT. I just don't get the defensiveness.

Maybe EMT is simply stating that many of us come from less fortunate situations. We can accept it or not. We have a choice.

Is that really defensiveness or rather an opportunistic view? Is truly caring for the poor saying we are sorry or is it showing them they have a choice?

Saying "I didn't own slaves" is defensive.

And your last sentence is obviously specious.

I know a few people who have received the needed help to escape that oppressive environment and they would disagree with you.

Ponder your statement.

Did you ponder what that help might have been?

[autigeremt 6,657]

*SNIP*

The cycle dies Cole. It's not 100%, but with each generation bit thoughts of the last waste away.

Never seems like it's moving fast enough though, does it?

Nope. Tired of the labels myself....I didn't own anyone.

No, you didn't. You did, however, have some advantages from being a member of a privileged class. So did I.

(I said the "P" word. Now the fun begins. ;D/>)

Let's see. I grew up a poor kid on a Mill Hill that had long since degraded into a remnant of itself. Only by the grace of God did I not end up a child of the state. Yeah....I'd say I owe everyone a ton by now.

I didn't say your road was easy.

I didn't choose my birth "rights" either.

You are not getting the point. No one is asking you to apologize. They are asking you to consider and understand.

I've understood it for 30 years and I considered it a lot. Why am I supposed to see it their way or your way when I have lived it my way for 43 years? I don't see color and I refute racism. And I accept that it has existed for thousands of years but I do not agree with it and I haven't advanced racism so why should I sit back and accept my color as a badge of hate?

[AUDub 11,160]

Did you ponder what that help might have been?

I did. Did you ponder the fact that you used the phrase "oppressive environment?"

[autigeremt 6,657]

Did you ponder what that help might have been?

I did. Did you ponder the fact that you used the phrase "oppressive environment?"

Here we go.....lol

[AUDub 11,160]

*SNIP*

The cycle dies Cole. It's not 100%, but with each generation bit thoughts of the last waste away.

Never seems like it's moving fast enough though, does it?

Nope. Tired of the labels myself....I didn't own anyone.

No, you didn't. You did, however, have some advantages from being a member of a privileged class. So did I.

(I said the "P" word. Now the fun begins.

Let's see. I grew up a poor kid on a Mill Hill that had long since degraded into a remnant of itself. Only by the grace of God did I not end up a child of the state. Yeah....I'd say I owe everyone a ton by now.

I didn't say your road was easy.

I didn't choose my birth "rights" either.

You are not getting the point. No one is asking you to apologize. They are asking you to consider and understand.

I've understood it for 30 years and I considered it a lot. Why am I supposed to see it their way or your way when I have lived it my way for 43 years? I don't see color and I refute racism. And I accept that it has existed for thousands of years but I do not agree with it and I haven't advanced racism so why should I sit back and accept my color as a badge of hate?

You still miss the point, EMT. We'll get there eventually.

So you haven't advanced racism. Admirable. Neither have I. Doesn't matter. It is not necessary for the individuals in a given society to be racist for them to benefit from being a member of a privileged class.

You can deny the existence of white, hetero, male etc. privelege to your heart's content. Still doesn't change the fact it does exist and you (and I) have benefited to some extent or another.

[AUFAN78 3,922]

Did you ponder what that help might have been?

I did. Did you ponder the fact that you used the phrase "oppressive environment?"

Absolutely. If you had a choice would you choose to stay?

[AUDub 11,160]

Did you ponder what that help might have been?

I did. Did you ponder the fact that you used the phrase "oppressive environment?"

Absolutely. If you had a choice would you choose to stay?

Are they all offered that choice? Is it as easy as choosing not to be there?

[AUFAN78 3,922]

Did you ponder what that help might have been?

I did. Did you ponder the fact that you used the phrase "oppressive environment?"

Absolutely. If you had a choice would you choose to stay?

Are they all offered that choice? Is it as easy as choosing not to be there?

Good question. Frankly, the answer is more complicated than that, but many have benefited from mentoring and plain old fashioned encouragement. Even in our worst schools, we have some excellent teachers and curriculum. I've personally seen amazing transformations from children who were once hopeless.

[autigeremt 6,657]

*SNIP*

The cycle dies Cole. It's not 100%, but with each generation bit thoughts of the last waste away.

Never seems like it's moving fast enough though, does it?

Nope. Tired of the labels myself....I didn't own anyone.

No, you didn't. You did, however, have some advantages from being a member of a privileged class. So did I.

(I said the "P" word. Now the fun begins. ;D/>

Let's see. I grew up a poor kid on a Mill Hill that had long since degraded into a remnant of itself. Only by the grace of God did I not end up a child of the state. Yeah....I'd say I owe everyone a ton by now.

I didn't say your road was easy.

I didn't choose my birth "rights" either.

You are not getting the point. No one is asking you to apologize. They are asking you to consider and understand.

I've understood it for 30 years and I considered it a lot. Why am I supposed to see it their way or your way when I have lived it my way for 43 years? I don't see color and I refute racism. And I accept that it has existed for thousands of years but I do not agree with it and I haven't advanced racism so why should I sit back and accept my color as a badge of hate?

You still miss the point, EMT. We'll get there eventually.

So you haven't advanced racism. Admirable. Neither have I. Doesn't matter. It is not necessary for the individuals in a given society to be racist for them to benefit from being a member of a privileged class.

You can deny the existence of white, hetero, male etc. privelege to your heart's content. Still doesn't change the fact it does exist and you (and I) have benefited to some extent or another.

"We'll get there eventually"

Yeah....I doubt it. I don't see through your prism of racial inequality. I see things through the prism of economic inequality which began thousands of years ago and well before Europeans decided to advance the slave trade that began before the days of the Egyptian ruling class.

[AUDub 11,160]

"We'll get there eventually"

Yeah....I doubt it. I don't see through your prism of racial inequality. I see things through the prism of economic inequality which began thousands of years ago and well before Europeans decided to advance the slave trade that began before the days of the Egyptian ruling class.

But we are getting there, whether you realize it or not.

I see reality. Your argument is tantamount to denying the existence of institutional racism. Being born poor sucks. Being born poor and black is a double whammy. That you deny that black folks, both poor and well off, may unfairly face hardships that you are unfamiliar with and will never have to deal with does not change that fact that the color of our skin is unfairly beneficial.

I'm not saying you're racist anymore than I'm saying I am. Be proud of who we are, but recognize the advantages our privileged position confers.

[autigeremt 6,657]

"We'll get there eventually"

Yeah....I doubt it. I don't see through your prism of racial inequality. I see things through the prism of economic inequality which began thousands of years ago and well before Europeans decided to advance the slave trade that began before the days of the Egyptian ruling class.

But we are getting there, whether you realize it or not.

I see reality. Your argument is tantamount to denying the existence of institutional racism. Being born poor sucks. Being born poor and black is a double whammy. That you deny that black folks, both poor and well off, may unfairly face hardships that you are unfamiliar with and will never have to deal with does not change that fact that the color of our skin is unfairly beneficial.

I'm not saying you're racist anymore than I'm saying I am. Be proud of who we are, but recognize the advantages our privileged position confers.

I don't know privilege, so don't lump me into that segment of society. I've had to bust my ass my entire life to get to where I am and the color of my skin has nothing to do with it. Do I deny unfortunate historical disadvantages for many in the world? No. Lest you forget I'm 1/3 Cherokee Indian. My great grandfather hopped trains to escape the Trail of Tears. However, I do not believe color is the driver of inequality. I've seen a lot of things in my life....things you have no idea of. You can read about them but I've been there and I base my perspective on my reality. Not one written about from the cushy seat of a Harvard desk chair or the desk of a Columbia professors esteemed vernacular....or that of a liberals arsenal to advance their own idea of America. You see.....I've seen white on white, black on black, Asian on Asian....middleasterner on middleasterner hate. Most often it is based on economics.

[homersapien 11,396]

I've understood it for 30 years and I considered it a lot. Why am I supposed to see it their way or your way when I have lived it my way for 43 years? I don't see color and I refute racism. And I accept that it has existed for thousands of years but I do not agree with it and I haven't advanced racism so why should I sit back and accept my color as a badge of hate?

Now there's that defensiveness I was referring to. :-\

[cole256 17,084]

*SNIP*

The cycle dies Cole. It's not 100%, but with each generation bit thoughts of the last waste away.

Never seems like it's moving fast enough though, does it?

Nope. Tired of the labels myself....I didn't own anyone.

No, you didn't. You did, however, have some advantages from being a member of a privileged class. So did I.

(I said the "P" word. Now the fun begins. ;D/>)

Let's see. I grew up a poor kid on a Mill Hill that had long since degraded into a remnant of itself. Only by the grace of God did I not end up a child of the state. Yeah....I'd say I owe everyone a ton by now.

I didn't say your road was easy.

I didn't choose my birth "rights" either.

You are not getting the point. No one is asking you to apologize. They are asking you to consider and understand.

I've understood it for 30 years and I considered it a lot. Why am I supposed to see it their way or your way when I have lived it my way for 43 years? I don't see color and I refute racism. And I accept that it has existed for thousands of years but I do not agree with it and I haven't advanced racism so why should I sit back and accept my color as a badge of hate?

Every time a discussion about race is brought up, especially specific incidents, and you come in and don't want to acknowledge racism you just want to say all people racist or whatever that is dismissing racism imo

[AUDub 11,160]

I don't know privilege, so don't lump me into that segment of society.

I contend that you do know it and have simply not given it much thought. As I said at the beginning of the thread, people are uncomfortable when asked to consider an advantage they gained through unfair means, though through no fault of their own.

I've had to bust my ass my entire life to get to where I am and the color of my skin has nothing to do with it.

I know this is going to be hard for you to accept, but there are people that have busted their asses just as hard as you, faced additional hardships and were denied your level of success based on nothing other than the color of their skin.

Do I deny unfortunate historical disadvantages for many in the world? No.

You are aware we are only a half century past Jim Crow, right? Why is it so hard for you to acknowledge that many of these disadvantages still linger?

Lest you forget I'm 1/3 Cherokee Indian. My great grandfather hopped trains to escape the Trail of Tears.

Good for you. I'm a quarter Creek. You know what that makes me? White.

However, I do not believe color is the driver of inequality.

Not exclusively. It is a driver, not exclusively the driver.

...I've seen a lot of things in my life....things you have no idea of. You can read about them but I've been there and I base my perspective on my reality....

So have I and so do I. A large portion of my life was spent in some of the poorer, higher crime (read: ghetto) areas of Birmingham.

...Not one written about from the cushy seat of a Harvard desk chair or the desk of a Columbia professors esteemed vernacular....or that of a liberals arsenal to advance their own idea of America....

We can now check anti-intellectualism off the list.

[aubfaninga 16]

"We'll get there eventually"

Yeah....I doubt it. I don't see through your prism of racial inequality. I see things through the prism of economic inequality which began thousands of years ago and well before Europeans decided to advance the slave trade that began before the days of the Egyptian ruling class.

But we are getting there, whether you realize it or not.

I see reality. Your argument is tantamount to denying the existence of institutional racism. Being born poor sucks. Being born poor and black is a double whammy. That you deny that black folks, both poor and well off, may unfairly face hardships that you are unfamiliar with and will never have to deal with does not change that fact that the color of our skin is unfairly beneficial.

I'm not saying you're racist anymore than I'm saying I am. Be proud of who we are, but recognize the advantages our privileged position confers.

I don't know privilege, so don't lump me into that segment of society. I've had to bust my ass my entire life to get to where I am and the color of my skin has nothing to do with it. Do I deny unfortunate historical disadvantages for many in the world? No. Lest you forget I'm 1/3 Cherokee Indian. My great grandfather hopped trains to escape the Trail of Tears. However, I do not believe color is the driver of inequality. I've seen a lot of things in my life....things you have no idea of. You can read about them but I've been there and I base my perspective on my reality. Not one written about from the cushy seat of a Harvard desk chair or the desk of a Columbia professors esteemed vernacular....or that of a liberals arsenal to advance their own idea of America. You see.....I've seen white on white, black on black, Asian on Asian....middleasterner on middleasterner hate. Most often it is based on economics.

"privilege" as in advantage

I know this topic naturally paints a mental image of white on black racism but you don't see whites as having "privileges" over people that look "Arabian" or Asian-Indian in the United States?

Heck, I even dare to say that black men have more privileges than "Arabian" looking people here in the States.