Why its hard to Talk about Racism

[AUDub 11,184]

So the definition is a moving target based on historical events (in this case the European conquest of North America and the West Indies)? And only in the US or can we say globally?

Signed Mr. Weasel

In another time and context, it could just as easily be another ethnic group benefiting from a privileged position.

Signed,

Doctor bigbens42 B.S.

And THIS is what I have seen in several countries along the way. Furthermore I have seen it here in the U.S. and here in Alabama between blacks, whites, Asians...a lot of people. I conclude this wonderful jaunt through the wilderness to say that "I" feel that racism=power+prejudice+money and it exists globally. It's not just a US thing or a southern thing. If we are to call out racism we must do it in unison against all forms of it.

But I am discussing it within the context of our culture. Whether there is institutional racism in other parts of the world among other ethnic groups (and there is no question that there is) has no bearing on the white privilege that benefits you and me.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

So the definition is a moving target based on historical events (in this case the European conquest of North America and the West Indies)? And only in the US or can we say globally?

Signed Mr. Weasel

In another time and context, it could just as easily be another ethnic group benefiting from a privileged position.

Signed,

Doctor bigbens42 B.S.

And THIS is what I have seen in several countries along the way. Furthermore I have seen it here in the U.S. and here in Alabama between blacks, whites, Asians...a lot of people. I conclude this wonderful jaunt through the wilderness to say that "I" feel that racism=power+prejudice+money and it exists globally. It's not just a US thing or a southern thing. If we are to call out racism we must do it in unison against all forms of it.

But I am discussing it within the context of our culture. Whether there is institutional racism in other parts of the world among other ethnic groups (and there is no question that there is) has no bearing on the white privilege that benefits you and me.

But,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,you got more "white privilege" than I did.

[autigeremt 6,717]

So the definition is a moving target based on historical events (in this case the European conquest of North America and the West Indies)? And only in the US or can we say globally?

Signed Mr. Weasel

In another time and context, it could just as easily be another ethnic group benefiting from a privileged position.

Signed,

Doctor bigbens42 B.S.

And THIS is what I have seen in several countries along the way. Furthermore I have seen it here in the U.S. and here in Alabama between blacks, whites, Asians...a lot of people. I conclude this wonderful jaunt through the wilderness to say that "I" feel that racism=power+prejudice+money and it exists globally. It's not just a US thing or a southern thing. If we are to call out racism we must do it in unison against all forms of it.

But I am discussing it within the context of our culture. Whether there is institutional racism in other parts of the world among other ethnic groups (and there is no question that there is) has no bearing on the white privilege that benefits you and me.

I haven't seen the privilege so I can't begin to understand it....at least as a result of my skin tone. I'm sure some have but I haven't (to my knowledge) so it is very hard for me to accept it as a part of who I am.

How do we resolve this white privilege that people speak of?

[cole256 17,084]

*SNIP*

The cycle dies Cole. It's not 100%, but with each generation bit thoughts of the last waste away.

Never seems like it's moving fast enough though, does it?

Nope. Tired of the labels myself....I didn't own anyone.

No, you didn't. You did, however, have some advantages from being a member of a privileged class. So did I.

(I said the "P" word. Now the fun begins. ;D/>)

Let's see. I grew up a poor kid on a Mill Hill that had long since degraded into a remnant of itself. Only by the grace of God did I not end up a child of the state. Yeah....I'd say I owe everyone a ton by now.

I didn't say your road was easy.

I didn't choose my birth "rights" either.

You are not getting the point. No one is asking you to apologize. They are asking you to consider and understand.

I've understood it for 30 years and I considered it a lot. Why am I supposed to see it their way or your way when I have lived it my way for 43 years? I don't see color and I refute racism. And I accept that it has existed for thousands of years but I do not agree with it and I haven't advanced racism so why should I sit back and accept my color as a badge of hate?

Every time a discussion about race is brought up, especially specific incidents, and you come in and don't want to acknowledge racism you just want to say all people racist or whatever that is dismissing racism imo

You only believe whites are capable of racism (according to some of your posts in the past) so don't try and point to me as not being able to acknowledge racism. Racism exists in every culture...blacks included.

This is your third time saying this and we have had discussions about it...LOL. You know what you're doing, you do it every time. NOBODY has accused anybody being racist for being white. You hate the thought of it so much that when racism actually happens you always have to change the subject to this...I mean it's your prerogative but please stop playing innocent as if you don't have an already formed opinion like most

[AUDub 11,184]

So the definition is a moving target based on historical events (in this case the European conquest of North America and the West Indies)? And only in the US or can we say globally?

Signed Mr. Weasel

In another time and context, it could just as easily be another ethnic group benefiting from a privileged position.

Signed,

Doctor bigbens42 B.S.

And THIS is what I have seen in several countries along the way. Furthermore I have seen it here in the U.S. and here in Alabama between blacks, whites, Asians...a lot of people. I conclude this wonderful jaunt through the wilderness to say that "I" feel that racism=power+prejudice+money and it exists globally. It's not just a US thing or a southern thing. If we are to call out racism we must do it in unison against all forms of it.

But I am discussing it within the context of our culture. Whether there is institutional racism in other parts of the world among other ethnic groups (and there is no question that there is) has no bearing on the white privilege that benefits you and me.

But,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,you got more "white privilege" than I did.

The principal misconception of privilege is that it applies exclusively on, or scales evenly and perfectly down to, an individual level, and so that the existence of individuals from a class considered privileged (e.g. white males) within a class considered underprivileged (e.g. working class poor) or the reverse scenario disproves the concept. This isn't the case at all. "Privilege" in the social justice sense applies only to classes of people, as far as it could be quantified it is only a statistical average. On average, those in an ethnic majority experience privilege, and on average those in minority groups experience oppression. For example, the fact that Barack Obama is the President of the United States doesn't prove nor disprove anything to do with white privilege or racism within the United States.

The second major misconception is that privilege is a quantifiable set of experiences that add up. It is instead a qualitative thing relating to experiences of a specific kind. For instance, the particular "male privilege" of not feeling sexual discrimination at work, or being pressured into raising children exclusively, isn't offset by economic or wealth class - it might apply with slight qualitative differences across class boundaries, but overall it is not a number that is then mitigated by other factors.

[AUDub 11,184]

Easy, Cole. I think we're making some headway here.

I haven't seen the privilege so I can't begin to understand it....at least as a result of my skin tone. I'm sure some have but I haven't (to my knowledge) so it is very hard for me to accept it as a part of who I am.

Understandable. It flies in the face of our nature to consider our advantages.

How do we resolve this white privilege that people speak of?

Empathizing with those who have experienced it is an important step. If we recognize it, we can work to right that particular wrong.

[autigeremt 6,717]

*SNIP*

The cycle dies Cole. It's not 100%, but with each generation bit thoughts of the last waste away.

Never seems like it's moving fast enough though, does it?

Nope. Tired of the labels myself....I didn't own anyone.

No, you didn't. You did, however, have some advantages from being a member of a privileged class. So did I.

(I said the "P" word. Now the fun begins. ;D/>)

Let's see. I grew up a poor kid on a Mill Hill that had long since degraded into a remnant of itself. Only by the grace of God did I not end up a child of the state. Yeah....I'd say I owe everyone a ton by now.

I didn't say your road was easy.

I didn't choose my birth "rights" either.

You are not getting the point. No one is asking you to apologize. They are asking you to consider and understand.

I've understood it for 30 years and I considered it a lot. Why am I supposed to see it their way or your way when I have lived it my way for 43 years? I don't see color and I refute racism. And I accept that it has existed for thousands of years but I do not agree with it and I haven't advanced racism so why should I sit back and accept my color as a badge of hate?

Every time a discussion about race is brought up, especially specific incidents, and you come in and don't want to acknowledge racism you just want to say all people racist or whatever that is dismissing racism imo

You only believe whites are capable of racism (according to some of your posts in the past) so don't try and point to me as not being able to acknowledge racism. Racism exists in every culture...blacks included.

This is your third time saying this and we have had discussions about it...LOL. You know what you're doing, you do it every time. NOBODY has accused anybody being racist for being white. You hate the thought of it so much that when racism actually happens you always have to change the subject to this...I mean it's your prerogative but please stop playing innocent as if you don't have an already formed opinion like most

I hate the thought that only a white in America can be racist, which is untrue. You know what you are doing....you do it every time. I don't act on it, believe in it, or impose it on anyone but I recognize it as something that is universal and needs to end. Do you? LOL

[autigeremt 6,717]

Easy, Cole. I think we're making some headway here.

I haven't seen the privilege so I can't begin to understand it....at least as a result of my skin tone. I'm sure some have but I haven't (to my knowledge) so it is very hard for me to accept it as a part of who I am.

Understandable. It flies in the face of our nature to consider our advantages.

How do we resolve this white privilege that people speak of?

Empathizing with those who have experienced it is an important step. If we recognize it, we can work to right that particular wrong.

Empathy...then what? Reparations? How do I right a wrong that I did not have a part in? This is where it gets very, very murky with me.

[AUDub 11,184]

Easy, Cole. I think we're making some headway here.

I haven't seen the privilege so I can't begin to understand it....at least as a result of my skin tone. I'm sure some have but I haven't (to my knowledge) so it is very hard for me to accept it as a part of who I am.

Understandable. It flies in the face of our nature to consider our advantages.

How do we resolve this white privilege that people speak of?

Empathizing with those who have experienced it is an important step. If we recognize it, we can work to right that particular wrong.

Empathy...then what? Reparations? How do I right a wrong that I did not have a part in? This is where it gets very, very murky with me.

Reparations? I wouldn't go that far.

Don't perpetuate it and call out those that do. Help others to recognize it.

You can't make people change their behavior by force, but informing them goes a long way. Not all will be receptive to it, and many will instantly go on the defensive.

[cole256 17,084]

*SNIP*

The cycle dies Cole. It's not 100%, but with each generation bit thoughts of the last waste away.

Never seems like it's moving fast enough though, does it?

Nope. Tired of the labels myself....I didn't own anyone.

No, you didn't. You did, however, have some advantages from being a member of a privileged class. So did I.

(I said the "P" word. Now the fun begins. ;D/>)

Let's see. I grew up a poor kid on a Mill Hill that had long since degraded into a remnant of itself. Only by the grace of God did I not end up a child of the state. Yeah....I'd say I owe everyone a ton by now.

I didn't say your road was easy.

I didn't choose my birth "rights" either.

You are not getting the point. No one is asking you to apologize. They are asking you to consider and understand.

I've understood it for 30 years and I considered it a lot. Why am I supposed to see it their way or your way when I have lived it my way for 43 years? I don't see color and I refute racism. And I accept that it has existed for thousands of years but I do not agree with it and I haven't advanced racism so why should I sit back and accept my color as a badge of hate?

Every time a discussion about race is brought up, especially specific incidents, and you come in and don't want to acknowledge racism you just want to say all people racist or whatever that is dismissing racism imo

You only believe whites are capable of racism (according to some of your posts in the past) so don't try and point to me as not being able to acknowledge racism. Racism exists in every culture...blacks included.

This is your third time saying this and we have had discussions about it...LOL. You know what you're doing, you do it every time. NOBODY has accused anybody being racist for being white. You hate the thought of it so much that when racism actually happens you always have to change the subject to this...I mean it's your prerogative but please stop playing innocent as if you don't have an already formed opinion like most

I hate the thought that only a white in America can be racist, which is untrue. You know what you are doing....you do it every time. I don't act on it, believe in it, or impose it on anyone but I recognize it as something that is universal and needs to end. Do you? LOL :)/>

Exactly. You hate it to a point to where if for some reason it comes up you will always be one of the very first to steer that convo just like you did here. I got you LOL

[autigeremt 6,717]

Easy, Cole. I think we're making some headway here.

I haven't seen the privilege so I can't begin to understand it....at least as a result of my skin tone. I'm sure some have but I haven't (to my knowledge) so it is very hard for me to accept it as a part of who I am.

Understandable. It flies in the face of our nature to consider our advantages.

How do we resolve this white privilege that people speak of?

Empathizing with those who have experienced it is an important step. If we recognize it, we can work to right that particular wrong.

Empathy...then what? Reparations? How do I right a wrong that I did not have a part in? This is where it gets very, very murky with me.

Reparations? I wouldn't go that far.

Don't perpetuate it and call out those that do. Help others to recognize it.

You can't make people change their behavior by force, but informing them goes a long way. Not all will be receptive to it, and many will instantly go on the defensive.

Nice poke there......

[autigeremt 6,717]

*SNIP*

The cycle dies Cole. It's not 100%, but with each generation bit thoughts of the last waste away.

Never seems like it's moving fast enough though, does it?

Nope. Tired of the labels myself....I didn't own anyone.

No, you didn't. You did, however, have some advantages from being a member of a privileged class. So did I.

(I said the "P" word. Now the fun begins. ;D/>)

Let's see. I grew up a poor kid on a Mill Hill that had long since degraded into a remnant of itself. Only by the grace of God did I not end up a child of the state. Yeah....I'd say I owe everyone a ton by now.

I didn't say your road was easy.

I didn't choose my birth "rights" either.

You are not getting the point. No one is asking you to apologize. They are asking you to consider and understand.

I've understood it for 30 years and I considered it a lot. Why am I supposed to see it their way or your way when I have lived it my way for 43 years? I don't see color and I refute racism. And I accept that it has existed for thousands of years but I do not agree with it and I haven't advanced racism so why should I sit back and accept my color as a badge of hate?

Every time a discussion about race is brought up, especially specific incidents, and you come in and don't want to acknowledge racism you just want to say all people racist or whatever that is dismissing racism imo

You only believe whites are capable of racism (according to some of your posts in the past) so don't try and point to me as not being able to acknowledge racism. Racism exists in every culture...blacks included.

This is your third time saying this and we have had discussions about it...LOL. You know what you're doing, you do it every time. NOBODY has accused anybody being racist for being white. You hate the thought of it so much that when racism actually happens you always have to change the subject to this...I mean it's your prerogative but please stop playing innocent as if you don't have an already formed opinion like most

I hate the thought that only a white in America can be racist, which is untrue. You know what you are doing....you do it every time. I don't act on it, believe in it, or impose it on anyone but I recognize it as something that is universal and needs to end. Do you? LOL :)/>

Exactly. You hate it to a point to where if for some reason it comes up you will always be one of the very first to steer that convo just like you did here. I got you LOL

Because it has been rammed down our throats by pundits and politicians for years. The uneducated take it line and sinker and we are left with the damage it has created to society. I got you LOL

[cole256 17,084]

That doesn't even make sense. But just because you don't like to hear about it doesn't make it not exist. Hell if hearing about it gets on your nerves so bad think how it must suck for those who have to endure it. And lol at the uneducated statement, also how about the people that are racist and the damage to society, funny how they get a pass

[autigeremt 6,717]

That doesn't even make sense. But just because you don't like to hear about it doesn't make it not exist. Hell if hearing about it gets on your nerves so bad think how it must suck for those who have to endure it. And lol at the uneducated statement, also how about the people that are racist and the damage to society, funny how they get a pass

Cole....it's not worth you and I going back and forth over. I respect you and every other black American that lives in this country and I will defend your right to the freedom you deserve again and again if it's the last thing I have to do. I haven't given anyone a pass, and neither should you. I only see things differently than you and many others and if it goes against their beliefs they speak out. Good for them.

There's no way in hell I can begin to understand what it's like to live black, and STOP reading into the words I state as if I'm talking about you or any other black. When I say "uneducated:,,,I'm talking about people from all walks of life. You just want it to mean something else, don't you?

[cole256 17,084]

I didn't take it that you were talking about me or black people. Maybe you should heed your own advice about reading into words. I LOL at it because like you said it's all walks of life and many educated people are some of the biggest racist.

And all you are saying is fine it's your opinions and you're entitled to it, my point was every time there is a discussion you always come in and draw it to an everybody racist thing. Once again if a discussion is about a specific incident and you come in doing that every time you're actually being part of the problem.

I haven't ever said you were racist or even made a post implying you were one so I don't understand your last sentence of your post. Just goes back to the title of this thread. I haven't ever said anything about race that you should disagree with, besides that black people aren't racist and that's not exactly what I meant. But I'm black and I say it exists so I want you to be racist right?

[autigeremt 6,717]

I didn't take it that you were talking about me or black people. Maybe you should heed your own advice about reading into words. I LOL at it because like you said it's all walks of life and many educated people are some of the biggest racist.

And all you are saying is fine it's your opinions and you're entitled to it, my point was every time there is a discussion you always come in and draw it to an everybody racist thing. Once again if a discussion is about a specific incident and you come in doing that every time you're actually being part of the problem.

I haven't ever said you were racist or even made a post implying you were one so I don't understand your last sentence of your post. Just goes back to the title of this thread. I haven't ever said anything about race that you should disagree with, besides that black people aren't racist and that's not exactly what I meant. But I'm black and I say it exists so I want you to be racist right?

We can end on that note. I don't think we are that far apart....it's a little easy to read into things when you can't see the persons face across from you.

[cole256 17,084]

I didn't ever think we were far apart either. Like I said 90% of my post about racism is that I believe it still exists in some places by some people. You guys act like I burned a flag while screaming kill white people....

[AUFAN78 3,926]

[autigeremt 6,717]

I didn't ever think we were far apart either. Like I said 90% of my post about racism is that I believe it still exists in some places by some people. You guys act like I burned a flag while screaming kill white people....

Ok...now I'm no longer the defensive poster of the month. LMAO!

[cole256 17,084]

You don't get called AL Sharpton or I guess rush Limbaugh every other time you post LOL

[AUFAN78 3,926]

[aubfaninga 16]

I didn't ever think we were far apart either. Like I said 90% of my post about racism is that I believe it still exists in some places by some people. You guys act like I burned a flag while screaming kill white people....

Ok...now I'm no longer the defensive poster of the month. LMAO!

When you posted that "we are not that far apart" (You and Cole) this morning, I wanted to be sarcastic and poke fun by saying something about both of you being very defensive. I decided against it not knowing if it would be received with sarcasm. Now I open up the thread and read this...