Military Pilots Complaining

[aujeff11 6,243]

I appreciate your service AUUSN. Obama doll or not. LMAO

COOLTIGGER - you're a f****** moron.

Thanks brother. My desire to see General and Flag Officers held to a higher standard transcends whatever person occupying the White House. This alleged purge is a freaking myth.

yeah I know. Anything as ridiculous as that I usually just ignore it. Seriously. No punk is going to discredit a man's selfless service to his country though. Definitely when it comes from a civilian.

[Strychnine 1,802]

The real problem is air power needs a ground force to occupy the territory won. we had that with the Kurds who wanted their territory back. The Iraqi army is mostly Shia, they probably don't care to take Sunni territory back from the Sunni ISIS forces.

That is the crux of why I am not interested in seeing the US get involved any further in this. If they do not consider their country to be worth fighting for, then it definitely is not worth the lives of any of our people to fight for it. If the rest of the region is not interested in getting more directly involved in driving ISIS out, then it definitely is not worth the lives of any of our people to do it. ISIS is much more of a threat and problem for all of the region than they are to us.

Given the time and money we spent on training and equipping the Iraqi military, what they have chosen to do with their country after we left is no longer our responsibility. If Iraq, and the region, is incapable of acting in their own best interests to eliminate something like ISIS, then anything we could accomplish for them militarily would ultimately prove futile.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

I will rely on the guys who can do this any day of the week over political and Public Affairs "spokesmen" or anyone claiming to be "all knowing" on a message board.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=0bc_1428285879

[TexasTiger 12,929]

I will rely on the guys who can do this any day of the week over political and Public Affairs "spokesmen" or anyone claiming to be "all knowing" on a message board.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=0bc_1428285879

You'll rely on anyone saying what you want to hear.

[Strychnine 1,802]

I will rely on the guys who can do this any day of the week over political and Public Affairs "spokesmen" or anyone claiming to be "all knowing" on a message board.

http://www.liveleak....=0bc_1428285879

You'll rely on anyone saying what you want to hear.

I might not be ICHY, but I know "Barry Sux" when I see it.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

;D

[quietfan 233]

Perhaps I'm just in a more sensitive mood this morning, but I continue to be impressed by the brilliant repartee and insightful logic expressed in this forum. "You're an idiot!", "You're a moron!", "You don't know what your talking about", "That's just the way it is", etc. are such erudite rebuttals demonstrating razor-sharp reasoning and outstanding debate skills.

[homersapien 11,382]

I have a problem with pilots thinking they can dictate the appropriate strategy in modern, asymmetric wars of insurrection.

[AU_Tiger_88 417]

I have a problem with pilots thinking they can dictate the appropriate strategy in modern, asymmetric wars of insurrection.

homer they are not trying to dictate anything...they are saying that the ROE and the authority to drop is at such a high level that by the time that it does get approved, that the situation has changed (i.e. civilians are now in harms way or they have to return to base). It is a dynamic situation and there are times to strike and you have a certain window of opportunity while flying which you can limit the damage to either buildings or non combatants. They are saying that they should have the ability to rely on their training to allow them some judgement on the front line on when they can safely hit their target without collateral damage. This isn't a game like on the PS3, when weaponeering there are a lot of details on how to employ your weapons and they are trained to do that. They take this seriously and are not frivolous with human life. It can take a toll on you knowing that you are killing people, especially when innocents are hurt. That is a heavy burden.

[alexava 6,973]

This thing is more complicated than most are willing to admit. It would be nice if all our pilots had the training, intelligence, ability to make these decisions quickly and correctly. I am sure some do. But look at the scrutiny cops are under for shooting too soon or at the wrong people. Would they all exercise reasonable caution? Do some of them carry the attitude of killem all and let god sortem out. It is a difficult scenario. No one is totally right or totally wrong. Except those who think they are totally right.

[AuburnNTexas 7,150]

This whole conversation is very complex. One person talking about purges in the top ranks of the military saying it is politically motivated without giving the name of one person who has been purged the other showing where some high ranking officers have been removed for wrong doing without mentioning this has been going on for years. The military has had issues of the type he described from the beginning of time as has the civilian world.

In todays world Eisenhower would have been purged because of his dalliance with his subordinate. Patton would have been canned and never allowed to lead again.

The statement the pilot made was he had clear discernible targets not questionable targets that he would have been allowed to fire on in the past.

[autigeremt 6,638]

I appreciate your service AUUSN. Obama doll or not. LMAO

COOLTIGGER - you're a f****** moron.

Thanks brother. My desire to see General and Flag Officers held to a higher standard transcends whatever person occupying the White House. This alleged purge is a freaking myth.

yeah I know. Anything as ridiculous as that I usually just ignore it. Seriously. No punk is going to discredit a man's selfless service to his country though. Definitely when it comes from a civilian.

Maybe my "purge" should have been described more as "massive turnover"? Either way it is very hard on command when you have so many people heading out the door and replaced with inexperience at the highest levels. Maybe they are that corrupt!?! Par for the course in D.C. I guess.....

[autigeremt 6,638]

I have a problem with pilots thinking they can dictate the appropriate strategy in modern, asymmetric wars of insurrection.

I do and I don't. It depends on the situation.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

This whole conversation is very complex. One person talking about purges in the top ranks of the military saying it is politically motivated without giving the name of one person who has been purged the other showing where some high ranking officers have been removed for wrong doing without mentioning this has been going on for years. The military has had issues of the type he described from the beginning of time as has the civilian world.

In todays world Eisenhower would have been purged because of his dalliance with his subordinate. Patton would have been canned and never allowed to lead again.

The statement the pilot made was he had clear discernible targets not questionable targets that he would have been allowed to fire on in the past.

I'm not so sure about that. I know many, many military aviators, young and old. I have heard the same complaints from Viet Nam era pilots. This is not a new problem. Ultimately, I think this has more to do with war, politics, and diplomacy being too entangled. If we are listening more to the politicians and diplomats, rather than the generals, I don't think we should call whatever it is we are doing, war. IMHO, war is about conquering or defending. The objectives and motives for "war" are much more clear. Our "military" failures are not on our military. They are squarely on our politicians and those who do not understand the true nature, meaning, and costs associated with "war". Ever notice how the "real" generals avoid the political rhetoric that promotes fear and reaction.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

quietfan......re. your post #57 above........POST OF THE YEAR!!!!!!

[quietfan 233]

quietfan......re. your post #57 above........POST OF THE YEAR!!!!!!

Thanks.

[cptau 169]

This whole conversation is very complex. One person talking about purges in the top ranks of the military saying it is politically motivated without giving the name of one person who has been purged the other showing where some high ranking officers have been removed for wrong doing without mentioning this has been going on for years. The military has had issues of the type he described from the beginning of time as has the civilian world.

In todays world Eisenhower would have been purged because of his dalliance with his subordinate. Patton would have been canned and never allowed to lead again.

The statement the pilot made was he had clear discernible targets not questionable targets that he would have been allowed to fire on in the past.

Patton did get canned. the US was it a death struggle to win the war and had to get him back in combat. as soon as the war ended, he got canned again.

[cptau 169]

This whole conversation is very complex. One person talking about purges in the top ranks of the military saying it is politically motivated without giving the name of one person who has been purged the other showing where some high ranking officers have been removed for wrong doing without mentioning this has been going on for years. The military has had issues of the type he described from the beginning of time as has the civilian world.

In todays world Eisenhower would have been purged because of his dalliance with his subordinate. Patton would have been canned and never allowed to lead again.

The statement the pilot made was he had clear discernible targets not questionable targets that he would have been allowed to fire on in the past.

I'm not so sure about that. I know many, many military aviators, young and old. I have heard the same complaints from Viet Nam era pilots. This is not a new problem. Ultimately, I think this has more to do with war, politics, and diplomacy being too entangled. If we are listening more to the politicians and diplomats, rather than the generals, I don't think we should call whatever it is we are doing, war. IMHO, war is about conquering or defending. The objectives and motives for "war" are much more clear. Our "military" failures are not on our military. They are squarely on our politicians and those who do not understand the true nature, meaning, and costs associated with "war". Ever notice how the "real" generals avoid the political rhetoric that promotes fear and reaction.

the firepower a fighter bomber has now and the communications used is immensely better than in WWII when pilots had more discretion to hit target of opportunity in a total war. even in Vietnam pilots were being remotely controlled. LBJ even got involved in selecting bombing targets because he was afraid of involving the red Chinese and Russians

the use of armed unmanned aerial vehicles is growing. some say the the F35 will be the last manned fighter developed. technicians sitting in an air conditioned rooms will control the drones, after taking directions from politicians.

[homersapien 11,382]

How can the pilot of a fighter/attack such as an F-18 see detail well enough to ascertain the presence of civilians around or in a target area?

But if we are going to use air power in a "sniping" mode, it seems to me that drones are the way to go.

[quietfan 233]

How can the pilot of a fighter/attack such as an F-18 see detail well enough to ascertain the presence of civilians around or in a target area?

But if we are going to use air power in a "sniping" mode, it seems to me that drones are the way to go.

Iagree. I think drones are the best approach to identifying tiny targets at low speed amidst harmless civilians and infrastructure. And of course, they have the advantage of not putting any of our pilots at risk, or handing ISIS a hostage through unexpected calamity from either mechanical failure or enemy fire.

[TexasTiger 12,929]

How can the pilot of a fighter/attack such as an F-18 see detail well enough to ascertain the presence of civilians around or in a target area?

But if we are going to use air power in a "sniping" mode, it seems to me that drones are the way to go.

Iagree. I think drones are the best approach to identifying tiny targets at low speed amidst harmless civilians and infrastructure. And of course, they have the advantage of not putting any of our pilots at risk, or handing ISIS a hostage through unexpected calamity from either mechanical failure or enemy fire.

And they perform their mission without griping and whining to Faux News.

[quietfan 233]

How can the pilot of a fighter/attack such as an F-18 see detail well enough to ascertain the presence of civilians around or in a target area?

But if we are going to use air power in a "sniping" mode, it seems to me that drones are the way to go.

Iagree. I think drones are the best approach to identifying tiny targets at low speed amidst harmless civilians and infrastructure. And of course, they have the advantage of not putting any of our pilots at risk, or handing ISIS a hostage through unexpected calamity from either mechanical failure or enemy fire.

And they perform their mission without griping and whining to Faux News.