EPA's move to raise ethanol mix in gasoline fuels alarm over engine damage.

[cooltigger21 0]

Ethanol, not only isn't better for the environment than pure gasoline, it is very hard on engines. It's particularly hard on small engines like lawnmowers and outboards. The proposal to increase the amount in a fuel mix just increases this plus it takes that much more corn and other crops like soybeans out of the food chain. http://www.washingto...-fuels-alarm-o/

[TitanTiger 20,708]

Corn-based ethanol is one of the biggest boondoggles going right now. It's more about it being a political thing with certain midwestern states than giving any tangible benefit to the American people. Cars get poorer gas mileage on it, it can ruin small engines, the overall environmental impact of growing the crops to provide the raw materials for it more than cancel out any environmental benefits we gain from its use, and on top of all that we waste taxpayer money providing subsidies for it so that the price of a gallon of gas is artificially lower when using an ethanol blend.

If we could ever move to switchgrass instead of corn for producing ethanol, perhaps it would be a viable thing to do. But as it is, it's just a sop to Iowa and surrounding states.

[AUDub 11,424]

Corn-based ethanol is one of the biggest boondoggles going right now. It's more about it being a political thing with certain midwestern states than giving any tangible benefit to the American people. Cars get poorer gas mileage on it, it can ruin small engines, the overall environmental impact of growing the crops to provide the raw materials for it more than cancel out any environmental benefits we gain from its use, and on top of all that we waste taxpayer money providing subsidies for it so that the price of a gallon of gas is artificially lower when using an ethanol blend.

If we could ever move to switchgrass instead of corn for producing ethanol, perhaps it would be a viable thing to do. But as it is, it's just a sop to Iowa and surrounding states.

Agreed. I'm all for ending the mandates.

[AURaptor 1,137]

Gee , if only there had been a candidate for President who's openly declare he'd be for ending such mandates & subsidies...

If only we the people had such a choice..

[TitanTiger 20,708]

Gee , if only there had been a candidate for President who's openly declare he'd be for ending such mandates & subsidies...

If only we the people had such a choice..

If only that were the only factor in choosing a president....

[AURaptor 1,137]

Gee , if only there had been a candidate for President who's openly declare he'd be for ending such mandates & subsidies...

If only we the people had such a choice..

If only that were the only factor in choosing a president....

No one is saying that, but for the topic in this thread, it matters.

Choices have consequences . Here's one that's simple for all to see.

[maxwere 82]

Ok so this guys explanation of Facism is fairly inadequate/inaccurate, focus on the point (it was protectionism that got us here in the first place):

http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2008/07/cut-fuel-costs-and-fight-fascism-use.html

John D. Rockefeller, under the ruse of Christian temperance, gave 4 million dollars to a group of old ladies and told them to fight for Prohibition (they successfully used the money to buy off Congress). Why? Rockefeller owned Standard Oil, the main company pushing gas as an alternative fuel to alcohol. By getting Congress to pass Prohibition laws, Rockefeller eliminated his competition. And see this.

[channonc 466]

Ethanol, not only isn't better for the environment than pure gasoline, it is very hard on engines. It's particularly hard on small engines like lawnmowers and outboards. The proposal to increase the amount in a fuel mix just increases this plus it takes that much more corn and other crops like soybeans out of the food chain. http://www.washingto...-fuels-alarm-o/

Agree!

Corn-based ethanol is one of the biggest boondoggles going right now. It's more about it being a political thing with certain midwestern states than giving any tangible benefit to the American people. Cars get poorer gas mileage on it, it can ruin small engines, the overall environmental impact of growing the crops to provide the raw materials for it more than cancel out any environmental benefits we gain from its use, and on top of all that we waste taxpayer money providing subsidies for it so that the price of a gallon of gas is artificially lower when using an ethanol blend.

If we could ever move to switchgrass instead of corn for producing ethanol, perhaps it would be a viable thing to do. But as it is, it's just a sop to Iowa and surrounding states.

Completely agree. In addition, I think producing ethanol is also a poor use of our food supply.

[AURaptor 1,137]

Fuel from food is s really bad idea when there are people who could use that food.

Wow. We agree

[channonc 466]

Fuel from food is s really bad idea when there are people who could use that food.

Wow. We agree

I'm waiting for the lightening to strike!

[AuburnNTexas 7,246]

This government mandate has lowered the number of miles per gallon, it has increased the cost of food, it is damaging to small engines and if increased % is mandated it will potentially hurt larger engines also. What is scary is people on both sides of the political spectrum agree on this and yet we can't get away from Government intervention because of politics. Hopefully enough people will complain and then congress will take action to revoke these mandates and subsidies.

The only thing I would like to see is if congress finally does act to remove mandates and subsidies that they phase it out over a few years as refiners will need time to retrofit and farmers will need time to adjust to lost income.

[homersapien 11,812]

Corn-based ethanol is one of the biggest boondoggles going right now. It's more about it being a political thing with certain midwestern states than giving any tangible benefit to the American people. Cars get poorer gas mileage on it, it can ruin small engines, the overall environmental impact of growing the crops to provide the raw materials for it more than cancel out any environmental benefits we gain from its use, and on top of all that we waste taxpayer money providing subsidies for it so that the price of a gallon of gas is artificially lower when using an ethanol blend.

If we could ever move to switchgrass instead of corn for producing ethanol, perhaps it would be a viable thing to do. But as it is, it's just a sop to Iowa and surrounding states.

Correct.

I know Auburn was doing some work with switchgrass a while back. Not sure if it's an ongoing program or not.

[homersapien 11,812]

Gee , if only there had been a candidate for President who's openly declare he'd be for ending such mandates & subsidies...

If only we the people had such a choice..

I may be wrong, but I doubt if the POTUS has the power to unilaterally delete such a program from a practical political standpoint.

Seems I recall ethanol subsidies being debated in the budget. There is a strong congressional constituency and it's included as part of the larger budget, and he can't veto it as a line item.

As I recall, this program got started in the '73(?) oil embargo as a way of becoming energy independent. Subsidies should be eliminated at this point. They can't be justified on the basis of emissions reduction.

[telling tiger 156]

UTk and UK are still working with it....didn't find anything about AU...Refinement appears to be more complex, the return on energy production is impressive.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/grass-makes-better-ethanol-than-corn/

[homersapien 11,812]

While it's on my mind, this (elimination of outdated or otherwise wasteful programs) is a systemic problem with our current system.

There's no point in even trying to address it until we solve the fundamental problem of money influencing politics.

And to do that, we must first pass legislation that reverses the "Citizens United" decision.

[channonc 466]

Gee , if only there had been a candidate for President who's openly declare he'd be for ending such mandates & subsidies...

If only we the people had such a choice..

I may be wrong, but I doubt if the POTUS has the power to unilaterally delete such a program from a practical political standpoint.

Seems I recall ethanol subsidies being debated in the budget. There is a strong congressional constituency and it's included as part of the larger budget, and he can't veto it as a line item.

As I recall, this program got started in the '73(?) oil embargo as a way of becoming energy independent. Subsidies should be eliminated at this point. They can't be justified on the basis of emissions reduction.

You are correct. The ethanol subsidies are authorized in law and are given in the Agriculture appropriations bill every year. The President would be in violation of the law by withholding these subsidies.

[AURaptor 1,137]

Gee , if only there had been a candidate for President who's openly declare he'd be for ending such mandates & subsidies...

If only we the people had such a choice..

I may be wrong, but I doubt if the POTUS has the power to unilaterally delete such a program from a practical political standpoint.

Seems I recall ethanol subsidies being debated in the budget. There is a strong congressional constituency and it's included as part of the larger budget, and he can't veto it as a line item.

As I recall, this program got started in the '73(?) oil embargo as a way of becoming energy independent. Subsidies should be eliminated at this point. They can't be justified on the basis of emissions reduction.

You are correct. The ethanol subsidies are authorized in law and are given in the Agriculture appropriations bill every year. The President would be in violation of the law by withholding these subsidies.

Cruz would have pushed for a platform to get the laws changed.

[Guest NC1406]

There is also a company that can produce ethanol from a hybrid tobacco product. The group has purchased an ethanol plant here in NC. Unfortunately they are still using corn as the feedstock today but hopefully will transition to the hybrid tobacco feedstock within 24 months. The hybrid tobacco produces 4x the output per acreage versus regular tobacco.

This could help move the ethanol production to a feedstock that does not take away from our food sources. Ethanol is a terrible fuel. Creates unbelievable problems in the retail storage tanks that have the E10 product. Huge costs that the public pays for but has no idea it occurs. 90% of the product I have sold as waste in the last 3 years has been due to issues related to ethanol.

E15 is an incredibly stupid idea. Mandates are the only thing that makes less sense.

With all that said, if we really want to take one food out of our diets......corn might be one of the highest on my list. Terrible energy source for vehicles and probably even worse for our bodies.

[homersapien 11,812]

UTk and UK are still working with it....didn't find anything about AU...Refinement appears to be more complex, the return on energy production is impressive.

http://www.scientifi...anol-than-corn/

It wouldn't be "refinement", more likely fermentation. It's not difficult to cook off the EtOH once it's been produced by the 'yeasty beasties'.

[homersapien 11,812]

There is also a company that can produce ethanol from a hybrid tobacco product. The group has purchased an ethanol plant here in NC. Unfortunately they are still using corn as the feedstock today but hopefully will transition to the hybrid tobacco feedstock within 24 months. The hybrid tobacco produces 4x the output per acreage versus regular tobacco.

This could help move the ethanol production to a feedstock that does not take away from our food sources. Ethanol is a terrible fuel. Creates unbelievable problems in the retail storage tanks that have the E10 product. Huge costs that the public pays for but has no idea it occurs. 90% of the product I have sold as waste in the last 3 years has been due to issues related to ethanol.

E15 is an incredibly stupid idea. Mandates are the only thing that makes less sense.

With all that said, if we really want to take one food out of our diets......corn might be one of the highest on my list. Terrible energy source for vehicles and probably even worse for our bodies.

EtOH is a cheap and easy way to increase octane if you have a high performance (high compression) engine.

[cooltigger21 0]

While it's on my mind, this (elimination of outdated or otherwise wasteful programs) is a systemic problem with our current system.

There's no point in even trying to address it until we solve the fundamental problem of money influencing politics.

And to do that, we must first pass legislation that reverses the "Citizens United" decision.

if you want to eliminate corporate money then you have to take out the unions too. Money has been a big influence in politics as long as both have been around.

[Mikey 16,781]

All here are in agreement that ethanol used in gasoline is a bad idea, from subsidies through production to engine wear? If this group can agree, then congress should have no problem killing the program with a unanimous vote!

[alexava 6,974]

I keep ethanol away from both my boats, chainsaw, weedeater, blower and in September I start using 100% gas in mowers. Ethanol does most of its damage sitting idle. Pure gas is about 30% higher but worth it in 2 strokes or anything that is not used regularly.

[AUDub 11,424]

I keep ethanol away from both my boats, chainsaw, weedeater, blower and in September I start using 100% gas in mowers. Ethanol does most of its damage sitting idle. Pure gas is about 30% higher but worth it in 2 strokes or anything that is not used regularly.

Same. I'm lucky enough to have a station that sells pure gas nearby. Wore out the fuel lines on my blower one time and switched.

Pouring a cap full of Sea Foam into every tank helps too.

[channonc 466]

All here are in agreement that ethanol used in gasoline is a bad idea, from subsidies through production to engine wear? If this group can agree, then congress should have no problem killing the program with a unanimous vote!

Unfortunately, there are Members of Congress in the midwest who continue to support this. I wish it would be unanimous!