Thank you, John McCain

[AUbritt 611]

This is the sort of critical attitude we all need to have.

Quote

I don’t know what Mr. Tillerson’s relationship with Vladimir Putin was, but I’ll tell you it is a matter of concern to me. You want to give the president of the United States the benefit of the doubt because the people have spoken. But Vladimir Putin is a thug, a bully and a murderer, and anybody else who describes him as anything else is lying.

 

[TheBlueVue 177]

2 hours ago, AUbritt said:

This is the sort of critical attitude we all need to have.

 

What has that got to do with anything? And, may I ask why do we necessarily have to have such an adversarial relationship with Putin and Russia? Putin is a thug, no doubt but, I fail to see why that justifies criticizing Trump or his possible SoS nominee. 

[AUbritt 611]

1 hour ago, TheBlueVue said:

What has that got to do with anything? And, may I ask why do we necessarily have to have such an adversarial relationship with Putin and Russia? Putin is a thug, no doubt but, I fail to see why that justifies criticizing Trump or his possible SoS nominee. 

I am suggesting we need to be critical of -- not criticize -- Trump. I mean we need to think critically about him and his actions/words.

As for his SoS nominee, he is too friendly with Putin for my liking.

Why should we have an adversarial relationship, instead of a friendship, with Putin? Well, he's a thug, for one. He governs like an authoritarian thug. And he reportedly interfered with our recent election. There are lots of other areas where our interests and Russia's conflict: Turkey, Syria, the Ukraine, pretty much everything to do with NATO, just to name a few.

So, I say good for John McCain that he is taking a public stand that we need to be critical about Trump's SoS nominee.

[homersapien 11,630]

58 minutes ago, TheBlueVue said:

What has that got to do with anything? And, may I ask why do we necessarily have to have such an adversarial relationship with Putin and Russia? Putin is a thug, no doubt but, I fail to see why that justifies criticizing Trump or his possible SoS nominee. 

You think Putin's interfering with our elections is OK?

[AURaptor 1,129]

2 hours ago, homersapien said:

You think Putin's interfering with our elections is OK?

You think the Dems lying and rigging the primaries is OK ? 

[AUbritt 611]

4 minutes ago, AURaptor said:

You think the Dems lying and rigging the primaries is OK ? 

Of course it's not ok.

Now, what about Trump and Russia? Not ok in my book. Yours?

[homersapien 11,630]

On 12/11/2016 at 8:05 PM, AURaptor said:

You think the Dems lying and rigging the primaries is OK ? 

  Anything to avoid the subject!

No  comparison whatsoever.  A non-sequitur.

[AURaptor 1,129]

8 minutes ago, AUbritt said:

Of course it's not ok.

Now, what about Trump and Russia? Not ok in my book. Yours?

I know of no issue there. But I DO know Hilary tried the RESET button ( translated as :  overcharged )  which failed miserably, and then Obama arrogantly muttered to Dmitry Medvedev that he'd have more flexibility after the election. Well ??? How'd THAT work out ???  

 

[AUbritt 611]

1 minute ago, AURaptor said:

I know of no issue there. 

You mean you don't have an issue with Russia and Trump, or you don't think it's true that Russia acted to get Trump elected?

[homersapien 11,630]

2 minutes ago, AURaptor said:

I know of no issue there. But I DO know Hilary tried the RESET button ( translated as :  overcharged )  which failed miserably, and then Obama arrogantly muttered to Dmitry Medvedev that he'd have more flexibility after the election. Well ??? How'd THAT work out ???  

 

 You just can't help yourself.

[AURaptor 1,129]

But about McCain and his concern for Trump... this is pretty much what I predicted before the election. Trump isn't EITHER party's favorite. In order to get anything  done, they'll be forced to work together - on some issues - even if it means going against Trump.

@Homer - I can't help myself what ? Tell the truth ??? What did I say which was factually inaccurate per Hillary's ' overcharge ' button or Barry's smug little comment to Dmitry ?? DO tell. 

[AUbritt 611]

Joint statement from McCain and others on cybersecurity.

 

[TexasTiger 13,285]

44 minutes ago, AURaptor said:

But about McCain and his concern for Trump... this is pretty much what I predicted before the election. Trump isn't EITHER party's favorite. In order to get anything  done, they'll be forced to work together - on some issues - even if it means going against Trump.

@Homer - I can't help myself what ? Tell the truth ??? What did I say which was factually inaccurate per Hillary's ' overcharge ' button or Barry's smug little comment to Dmitry ?? DO tell. 

You like Bolton and think Obama's too smug to Russia?

[bigbird 60,605]

19 minutes ago, AUbritt said:

Joint statement from McCain and others on cybersecurity.

 

Good start.

[AURaptor 1,129]

34 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

You like Bolton and think Obama's too smug to Russia?

Yes, I do like Bolton, and I think Obama is too a lot of things to deal w/ Russia. Too much a naive  community agitator who hasn't had any real world leadership experience to deal w/ the likes of Putin.. yeah. 

 

 

[autigeremt 6,791]

Maybe the two party system is at fault? Both parties have supported thugs like Putin for decades. Russia trying to interfere isn't new...they were just a little more successful this time. The information leaked was truthful and honestly....needed to get out because our own media refuses to do their job. 

Moving forward we need to tighten our cyber security up AND hold the duopoly accountable. Big dream I know......

[AUbritt 611]

7 hours ago, autigeremt said:

Maybe the two party system is at fault? Both parties have supported thugs like Putin for decades. Russia trying to interfere isn't new...they were just a little more successful this time. The information leaked was truthful and honestly....needed to get out because our own media refuses to do their job. 

Moving forward we need to tighten our cyber security up AND hold the duopoly accountable. Big dream I know......

Moving beyond a two-party system would be a great outcome of all this, IMO.

[icanthearyou 4,465]

8 hours ago, autigeremt said:

Maybe the two party system is at fault? Both parties have supported thugs like Putin for decades. Russia trying to interfere isn't new...they were just a little more successful this time. The information leaked was truthful and honestly....needed to get out because our own media refuses to do their job. 

Moving forward we need to tighten our cyber security up AND hold the duopoly accountable. Big dream I know......

The media should start hacking for information?  Who is to say the media is not, "doing their job"?  Perhaps their "job" is to amuse, confuse, entertain.  Perhaps the media is no longer invested in the public interest, the general welfare, feels no social responsibility?  Perhaps the media has no function other than to serve and, help consolidate power?

Does anyone still believe that either party is more interested in the country than politics, power, money?  The fundamental information is right in front of our noses.  Too many of us would rather be entertained by the show than recognize reality.  Money buys legislation.  Economic power and political power collude against the population.   

In some ways, I think Trump is a rejection of the establishment of both parties (without recognizing the real problem).  While, leveraging the most fanatical of one of the parties. The history of populist, nationalist politicians rising to power as the great hope of a nation, is not very good.  I can't wait to see how this turns out.  

Is Trump genuinely patriotic?  Does he truly want to "make American great again"?  Or, is he just another brilliant, yet emotionally disturbed, individual with an insatiable lust for power and, the ability to use rhetoric in order to get his followers to compromise all of their ethical and social standards.

Too many of us believe that politics is primarily about ideology.  Politics is about power.  The more power is consolidated, the more politics will promote the limited interests of a few at the expense of many.  Rhetoric and the associated group think are very valuable.

The problem with our government has little to do with ideology.  The problem is much more fundamental and destructive to the basic concept of our founding.  The problem is money.  We have invited money into the system.  We have even invited foreign money into our system.  Paying taxes gives you a very limited form of representation.  If you want real representation, if you want sweetheart legislation or, preferential tax treatment, a lucrative government contract, you had better have a few PACs, a couple of dozen lobbyists, and a creative mind for disguising the money trail.

All of the cyber security expertise in the world won't stop the duopoly.  As long as they seek the personal rewards from special interest rather than fulfill their duty toward taxpayers, the fiscal condition or government and, the human condition of society will decline.

[TheBlueVue 177]

19 hours ago, homersapien said:

You think Putin's interfering with our elections is OK?

Actually, I don't think he did. As it turned out, democrats did a swell job of losing it on their own what with the primary fixes and bribing Bernie. I must tell you, however, how entertaining I find  watching the DC run media complex hyperventilating about fake news out of one side of their mouth, then change gears and start all over again about Putin tampering with our election. Its more than a bit ironic as the reports that claim unnamed sources as facts hit the airwaves.. Its all nothing but a thinly veiled attempt to delegitimize Trump's win and people like you are eating it up.

[homersapien 11,630]

15 hours ago, autigeremt said:

Maybe the two party system is at fault? Both parties have supported thugs like Putin for decades. Russia trying to interfere isn't new...they were just a little more successful this time. The information leaked was truthful and honestly....needed to get out because our own media refuses to do their job. 

Moving forward we need to tighten our cyber security up AND hold the duopoly accountable. Big dream I know......

"supported"? 

And you still don't get it.  Supporting Russian hacking because they hurt a candidate you don't like?  

[homersapien 11,630]

2 hours ago, TheBlueVue said:

Actually, I don't think he did. As it turned out, democrats did a swell job of losing it on their own what with the primary fixes and bribing Bernie. I must tell you, however, how entertaining I find  watching the DC run media complex hyperventilating about fake news out of one side of their mouth, then change gears and start all over again about Putin tampering with our election. Its more than a bit ironic as the reports that claim unnamed sources as facts hit the airwaves.. Its all nothing but a thinly veiled attempt to delegitimize Trump's win and people like you are eating it up.

Well, I guess you just take Trump's opinion as the truth - "I don't believe it, it's ridiculous."   No need for any further investigation, huh? (And you accuse others about "eating up" bs.  )

Are you OK with fake news?  

And the DC "media complex" is talking about this because they got information from the CIA - or someone in the intelligence community - saying it happened.   You don't think that's news?

You sound just like Rush on his show today.  He's treating this as a political story instead of a security story.  Even mocked John McCain for wanting to investigate it.  Republicans like McDonald - and apparently you and EMT - are just willing to let this slide into history without even bothering to investigate it.  Why?  Because their party benefited!  Forget the longer term implications.

This is really separating the hypocritical, venal politicians from those who truly love the country.

 

[autigeremt 6,791]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

"supported"? 

And you still don't get it.  Supporting Russian hacking because they hurt a candidate you don't like?  

I didn't vote for either of the two failures. Get that!

[Mims44 1,931]

On 12/11/2016 at 8:18 PM, homersapien said:

  Anything to avoid the subject!

No  comparison whatsoever.  A non-sequitur.

That was actually To Quoque.

Answering criticism with criticism.

 

[homersapien 11,630]

On 12/11/2016 at 4:22 PM, TheBlueVue said:

What has that got to do with anything? And, may I ask why do we necessarily have to have such an adversarial relationship with Putin and Russia? Putin is a thug, no doubt but, I fail to see why that justifies criticizing Trump or his possible SoS nominee. 

We have an adversarial relationship with Russia because of Putin's actions, like annexing the Crimea and threatening the rest of Ukraine as well as the Baltic states.  Of course he's also trying to destabilize the EU and weaken NATO.

That's why we enacted sanctions against them.

It's also why he wanted Trump to win the election.