japantiger 4,051 Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 3 hours ago, GiveEmElle said: What reason would I have to garner political points? And control the narrative? I am participating in a forum discussion on political issues, not running a campaign. To think it's more than that is absolutely insane. And no, I don't think it is always a bad idea to restrict those coming into our country. But I do think Trump's EO was not well planned or thought out. And I wasn't aware that John McCain, who also has spoke out against this EO, was having liberal wet dreams with those of us who disagree. I do have to wonder though, if you truly think I'm not genuine, stupid, or whatever other insult you've chosen to hurl at me in this exchange, why persist in engaging me? Does it make you feel like more of a man to insult people from behind a keyboard? What aspects of the plan were not well thought out? Under what circumstances would it be a good idea to restrict people from entering the country? John McCain is the co-lead of the Republican "surrender caucus" (not my original statement)...the last time he showed any leadership was in Vietnam. He's the Republican Harry Reid; no, I take that back; I think McCain is honorable; just no longer relevant as he is fighting a much different democrat party with the same tactics he used when he 1st came to DC...that party died a long time ago .... I don't think you're stupid; I do think your insistence on repeating the tired old line "muslim ban" is completely disingenuous and deliberate. I engage people because I believe ideas carry the day with intelligent people. I will push a point until it is obvious someone has no interest in a real dialogue. For example, Ichy and I can go on for pages, agree, disagree and agree to disagree...USN usually wears out his welcome on the 2nd witless copycat meme, Homey, on the 1st flashback....You? the verdict is out as I've only tried it this second time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiveEmElle 1,559 Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 24 minutes ago, japantiger said: What aspects of the plan were not well thought out? Under what circumstances would it be a good idea to restrict people from entering the country? John McCain is the co-lead of the Republican "surrender caucus" (not my original statement)...the last time he showed any leadership was in Vietnam. He's the Republican Harry Reid; no, I take that back; I think McCain is honorable; just no longer relevant as he is fighting a much different democrat party with the same tactics he used when he 1st came to DC...that party died a long time ago .... I don't think you're stupid; I do think your insistence on repeating the tired old line "muslim ban" is completely disingenuous and deliberate. I engage people because I believe ideas carry the day with intelligent people. I will push a point until it is obvious someone has no interest in a real dialogue. For example, Ichy and I can go on for pages, agree, disagree and agree to disagree...USN usually wears out his welcome on the 2nd witless copycat meme, Homey, on the 1st flashback....You? the verdict is out as I've only tried it this second time. All you white people look alike to me so I'm not sure which one of you called me stupid. Again, Muslim ban isn't some catch phrase I invented, it's something Trump said, Giuliani said. But if it makes you feel better I don't mind saying ban. As for the parts not well thought out, restricting green card holders and people already on board planes who had already been vetted was unnecessary. Detaining a five year old child really did nothing to make America safer either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUDub 11,158 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Acting Attorney General Orders Justice Dept. Not to Defend Refugee Ban https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/30/u...8&ref=cta&_r=0“I am responsible for ensuring that the positions we take in court remain consistent with this institution’s solemn obligation to always seek justice and stand for what is right,” Ms. Yates wrote in a letter to Justice Department lawyers. “At present, I am not convinced that the defense of the executive order is consistent with these responsibilities nor am I convinced that the executive order is lawful.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AURaptor 1,125 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 2 hours ago, TexasTiger said: Charleston shooter was from South Carolina. So? How is that germane to the conversation at hand ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasTiger 12,967 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Just now, AURaptor said: So? How is that germane to the conversation at hand ? There are many threats. Threats from Refugees have been minimal and overblown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metafour 4,969 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 1 minute ago, TexasTiger said: There are many threats. Threats from Refugees have been minimal and overblown. Sample bias, much? ~325 million current inhabitants of America versus how many refugees? Yes, it is more likely that an American born citizen kills you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AURaptor 1,125 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 1 minute ago, TexasTiger said: There are many threats. Threats from Refugees have been minimal and overblown. 9-11, Orlando, Ft. Hood, San Bernadino, Chattanooga, Boston, D.C. area snipers, Dallas cartoon show attack, ... You'll try and remind me that not ALL of those involved immigrants or refugees, but in fact, some of those were US citizens. To that, I'll reply, so what ? ALL had one common thread. And about this " Refugee " problem. Why are so many different people from different nations FLEEING their own land ? And why are WE the designated dropping off point for all these people ? Why not another middle East nation ? Sorry, but I'll never accept the idea that we owe these people anything, and they're accepted, no questions asked. All Trump is doing is making sure those who come here do so pose no threat to the ones already here. It's well with on our rights and obligation to do that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,499 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 19 minutes ago, AURaptor said: Sorry, but I'll never accept the idea that we owe these people anything, and they're accepted, no questions asked. All Trump is doing is making sure those who come here do so pose no threat to the ones already here. It's well with on our rights and obligation to do that much. Who has even suggested that anyone come here "no questions asked?" That's a complete mischaracterization of the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AURaptor 1,125 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 4 minutes ago, TitanTiger said: Who has even suggested that anyone come here "no questions asked?" That's a complete mischaracterization of the process. No less a mischaracterization of what Trumps E.O. does. Point is, there is no RIGHT for an immigrant to be allowed in. Refugee or no. And those - not here - who tried to paint these refugees to Anne Frank. ( Under a Democratic President , btw ) as some how comparable to the current situation are wholly dishonest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,499 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 It's a far more egregious mischaracterization. In fact it's an outright lie. The vetting process is the polar opposite of "no questions asked." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUUSN 823 Posted January 31, 2017 Author Share Posted January 31, 2017 Three days into this atomic train wreck, there just isnt any possible way to defend it. It was a huge rookie mistake in governing that more mature Administrations would admit it, rescind it and improve it. But no, we must tweet. Meanwhile his brand new cabinet secretaries are left twisting in the wind... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,499 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Train wreck is the perfect description of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUUSN 823 Posted January 31, 2017 Author Share Posted January 31, 2017 Just now, TitanTiger said: Train wreck is the perfect description of it. Most of my co-workers, a lot of them retired Officers with deep staff experience were absolutely shocked at this haphazard roll-out of such a complex and far reaching Executive Order. Just an absolute embarrassment. On another note, I was at CIA HQ today and a lot of offices still had Obama's picture up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AURaptor 1,125 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 13 minutes ago, TitanTiger said: It's a far more egregious mischaracterization. In fact it's an outright lie. The vetting process is the polar opposite of "no questions asked." And Trumps E.O. isn't by any stretch a permanent denial of letting those who qualify into the country. As it stands, folks get a second look over, and are then allowed too proceed. There is no 3 month stay on ALL entry into the country. Saying otherwise is equally a lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AURaptor 1,125 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 1 minute ago, AUUSN said: On another note, I was at CIA HQ today and a lot of offices still had Obama's picture up! Shows their political affiliation and they should probably be fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUUSN 823 Posted January 31, 2017 Author Share Posted January 31, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUUSN 823 Posted January 31, 2017 Author Share Posted January 31, 2017 Just now, AURaptor said: Shows their political affiliation and they should probably be fired. I was at another agency last week and saw Trumps official photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,499 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 4 minutes ago, AURaptor said: And Trumps E.O. isn't by any stretch a permanent denial of letting those who qualify into the country. As it stands, folks get a second look over, and are then allowed too proceed. There is no 3 month stay on ALL entry into the country. Saying otherwise is equally a lie. i get the feeling I'm going to be interacting in this loony lounge a lot less going forward. It's this kind of head scratching false equivalency I need a break from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cptau 169 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 5 minutes ago, AUUSN said: Most of my co-workers, a lot of them retired Officers with deep staff experience were absolutely shocked at this haphazard roll-out of such a complex and far reaching Executive Order. Just an absolute embarrassment. On another note, I was at CIA HQ today and a lot of offices still had Obama's picture up! You must have left active duty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AURaptor 1,125 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Ok.. leave Obama's picture up. That's scary as hell. I can't lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUUSN 823 Posted January 31, 2017 Author Share Posted January 31, 2017 7 minutes ago, cptau said: You must have left active duty? Yep, I've moved on to bigger and better things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUUSN 823 Posted January 31, 2017 Author Share Posted January 31, 2017 7 minutes ago, AURaptor said: Ok.. leave Obama's picture up. That's scary as hell. I can't lie. I took a triple take. First thing I thought was damn, that's a book cover. Art of the deal part deux. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AURaptor 1,125 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 1 minute ago, TitanTiger said: i get the feeling I'm going to be interacting in this loony lounge a lot less going forward. It's this kind of head scratching false equivalency I need a break from. Dammit, I'm speaking about the wide range of freaking LIES being told about this E.O. Imperfect as it is, it's still legal and it's not some new draconian movement against Muslims. You want to turn this into some sort of tit-for-tat whizzing contest, and I'm just trying to deal in facts. Yes, I did say " no questions asked ", but that CLEARLY should be understood to be a bit of sarcasm. On the flip side, we actually DO basically ask " are you a terrorist " as one of the questions for those trying to come into the country. That's what has been passed off as ' harsh vetting ', as Obama and or Hillary would say. So spare me your ' false equivalency ' speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShocksMyBrain 9,368 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 It's all good though. Obama did it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
japantiger 4,051 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 2 hours ago, GiveEmElle said: All you white people look alike to me so I'm not sure which one of you called me stupid. Again, Muslim ban isn't some catch phrase I invented, it's something Trump said, Giuliani said. But if it makes you feel better I don't mind saying ban. As for the parts not well thought out, restricting green card holders and people already on board planes who had already been vetted was unnecessary. Detaining a five year old child really did nothing to make America safer either. Nice...I am in fact a white guy....so no offense taken. Muslim ban is just that, a catch phrase and an inaccurate one as well. Again, you seem to have trouble letting go of that....I just tend to like the folks I have discussions with to acknowledge reality. Even Obama let go of "if you like you Dr., you can keep them". The OE was clear on those points; direction to the DHS were poor or not communicated at all or just not understood...the initial hysteria could have been avoided. But, I'm not really going to sweat what happened to ~100 foreigners who have no inherent right to be here. They're lucky to be here. If they had to put up with some hassle a few hours to reinforce that they are here at our good graces and not by right; then I don't have a problem with that. If they feel put upon, I'm sure they're homeland would love to have them back. Yes, I am a complete bastard in this regard...somehow I think the republic will survive the mindless hysteria on this...it managed to when the last 6 presidents did some version of the same thing.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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