Hugh Freeze Resigns

[lionheartkc 6,150]

3 hours ago, Maverick.AU said:

To be fair, and I'm a Gus fan at heart, what has Gus done to earn 4.7 mil a year?

 You must have missed my earlier post where I said all coaches are making far too much money.

3 hours ago, Maverick.AU said:

On your other post I respectfully disagree. I do not think it is wrong for fans to want 9-10+ win seasons consistently instead of constantly limping to 8-5, I don't think it's a stretch to expect a team that brings in top talent to be in the run for the playoff every year.

While I get what you are saying, but 10 wins a year means consistant beating at least one of 3 teams that has the talent to win 10+ games a year and not slipping up in any other games. Making a playoff run means winning the SEC which usually requires 11-12 wins. Averaging 9-10 is reasonable... 10+ not so much... but fans should also expect and be ok with the occasional 8 win season, just like they should enjoy the occasional 11-12 win season. There are always variables that can cost a game or two that no one can control (usually key injuries)

[Maverick.AU 13,281]

17 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

 You must have missed my earlier post where I said all coaches are making far too much money.

While I get what you are saying, but 10 wins a year means consistant beating at least one of 3 teams that has the talent to win 10+ games a year and not slipping up in any other games. Making a playoff run means winning the SEC which usually requires 11-12 wins. Averaging 9-10 is reasonable... 10+ not so much... but fans should also expect and be ok with the occasional 8 win season, just like they should enjoy the occasional 11-12 win season. There are always variables that can cost a game or two that no one can control (usually key injuries)

I agree with this "occasional" 8 win seasons. 8 wins being the norm though when we aren't winning the conference is frustrating for a fan base. I think we can agree on that

[Beaker 2,457]

You know who I would like to come to the SEC?  Mike Leach.

he is the coach that compared his receivers to a "JV VB or softball team" last year and told his players a few years ago to "quit listening to your fat little girlfriends about playing time."

He would fill the gap Spurrier vacated.  Maybe Ole Miss can hire M Leach.   We could use a Mike Leach in the conference.  

[GwillMac6 20,700]

13 minutes ago, Beaker said:

You know who I would like to come to the SEC?  Mike Leach.

he is the coach that compared his receivers to a "JV VB or softball team" last year and told his players a few years ago to "quit listening to your fat little girlfriends about playing time."

He would fill the gap Spurrier vacated.  Maybe Ole Miss can hire M Leach.   We could use a Mike Leach in the conference.  

He wanted to be at Auburn after tubs. Basically begged us for the job. That would of been a very interesting experience. The man is a dang good coach but has a very odd personality that would most likely clash with what the current administration clearly wants in our football coach. Who cares though?! If you are a winner bring them on! If you can win at Wash ST. you can win ANYWHERE. He has never been anywhere as Head Coach close to the resources and tradition of Auburn. He would of killed it here and re written every receiving and passing records. He is a QB guru. He does not need great talent to have good qb play.

[Strychnine 1,803]

9 hours ago, GwillMac6 said:

He wanted to be at Auburn after tubs. Basically begged us for the job. That would of been a very interesting experience. The man is a dang good coach but has a very odd personality that would most likely clash with what the current administration clearly wants in our football coach. Who cares though?! If you are a winner bring them on! If you can win at Wash ST. you can win ANYWHERE. He has never been anywhere as Head Coach close to the resources and tradition of Auburn. He would of killed it here and re written every receiving and passing records. He is a QB guru. He does not need great talent to have good qb play.

 

I have often wondered how Leach would do at a program that could recruit at a much higher level than Texas Tech or Wazzou.

[McLoofus 35,182]

15 hours ago, lionheartkc said:

Correct, but he still hasn't done anything worthy of seven freakin' million dollars a year.

Alabama football reported revenue of $104 million last year and a $47 million profit. 

In 2006, the revenue of the entire AD was $68 million. 

In that same time span, enrollment has grown by 13,000 students. 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

14 hours ago, DAG said:

3 of those games were some of the worst offenses performances I have ever seen. No TDs against LSU. 1 TD against UGA, 1  TD against Clemson. Zero TDs against Bama. Troy put up more points against Clemson.  Unacceptable. Those defenses are legit, but they aren't that superior over our talent. I mean if we are just going to accept playing piss poor against the legit teams then we might as well save money.

I know this is going to shock you, but the only team to put up more yards on LSU last year was Texas A&M.  I still argue that Georgia is obvious, with exactly one member of our backfield uninjured at the end of the game and at least 50% injured at the beginning, including all of our starters. There is no excuse for Clemson... none.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

3 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Alabama football reported revenue of $104 million last year and a $47 million profit. 

In 2006, the revenue of the entire AD was $68 million. 

In that same time span, enrollment has grown by 13,000 students. 

Until he cures cancer, invents time travel, or something else remarkable, he's not worth $7 million.

Also, to give you a real world example with numbers, the CEO of Lowe's made $13 million last year.  Lowe's made $59 Billion (with a B) in revenue and $19 Billion in profit. So, less than twice what Saban makes in salary, but over 400 times the amount of profit.

College football coaches are massively overpaid. Period.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

10 hours ago, Maverick.AU said:

I agree with this "occasional" 8 win seasons. 8 wins being the norm though when we aren't winning the conference is frustrating for a fan base. I think we can agree on that

Yea... I'd be frustrated if we were fielding 8 win teams, but other than the fluke that was 2015, we're fielding 9-10 win teams and suffering from the injury bug. My point of frustration lies with the conditioning and training teams. I seriously hope that they incorporated A LOT more flexibility training into the program this year.

[McLoofus 35,182]

4 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Until he cures cancer, invents time travel, or something else remarkable, he's not worth $7 million.

Also, to give you a real world example with numbers, the CEO of Lowe's made $13 million last year.  Lowe's made $59 Billion (with a in revenue and $19 Billion in profit. So, less than twice what Saban makes in salary, but over 400 times the amount of profit.

College football coaches are massively overpaid. Period.

Except your Lowe's CEO has no relevance to what Saban should be paid. Maybe the Lowe's guy is underpaid. Maybe his total compensation is light years above $13 million once you factor in things like shares in the company. Maybe not. Doesn't matter. alabama's ROI on saban is very, very high.

I can agree that CFB coaches are overpaid, just like a lot of players and a lot of artists and a lot of CEOs and a lot of lawyers and a lot of other types of people. But as far as CFB coaches go, saban is underpaid relative to the amount of money he has made for his employer. 

[DAG 34,005]

31 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

I know this is going to shock you, but the only team to put up more yards on LSU last year was Texas A&M.  I still argue that Georgia is obvious, with exactly one member of our backfield uninjured at the end of the game and at least 50% injured at the beginning, including all of our starters. There is no excuse for Clemson... none.

What does that have to do with getting in the end zone? If it is just about putting up yards then why are we paying someone 4 million dollars to do that?   Like I said, there is no point in going back and forth with you. My main point was this illogical view you have against Saban has absolutely skewed your arguments. You have several different people on this thread pointing to this case. There is absolutely nothing wrong with pointing out the responsibilities of our HC in the absence of indirectly faulting Bama for it.

[keesler 5,928]

7 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Alabama football reported revenue of $104 million last year and a $47 million profit. 

In 2006, the revenue of the entire AD was $68 million. 

In that same time span, enrollment has grown by 13,000 students. 

The man's vastly underpaid relative to the value/revenue he's generated in the decade he's been there.

The UAT folks realized he was underpaid and they somewhat rectified it by giving him $10mm just to sign his contract extension.  

 

[AU64 10,122]

JMO but what NS is paid is the American way....all about supply and demand...or you mostly get what you pay for.

Just look at the MLB salaries.....and guys only "work" about 2/3rd of the year;...and most pitchers have a lower winning percentage than NS and hitters are mostly right about 1/3rd of the time they are at bat. 

  http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/rankings/

Anyone who thinks they can get Clayton Kershaw 2.0 for half the price is either dreaming....or should be playing the lottery. 

Again...JMO but comparing coaching salaries is a useless exercise....don't like your coach or think he is overpaid ? ...go out and find someone better...but in the case of Gus, not sure where you are going to find that person...unless you just enjoy rolling the dice on some lower level Div 1 coach who might (or might not) strike gold at AU.    Just looking around the SEC....don't actually see a coach I would swap for Gus..and going nationally, not sure I see anyone elsewhere either ...especially anyone who would consider AU at about any salary.  

 

[DAG 34,005]

5 minutes ago, AU64 said:

JMO but what NS is paid is the American way....all about supply and demand...or you mostly get what you pay for.

Just look at the MLB salaries.....and guys only "work" about 2/3rd of the year;...and most pitchers have a lower winning percentage than NS and hitters are mostly right about 1/3rd of the time they are at bat. 

  http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/rankings/

Anyone who thinks they can get Clayton Kershaw 2.0 for half the price is either dreaming....or should be playing the lottery. 

Again...JMO but comparing coaching salaries is a useless exercise....don't like your coach or think he is overpaid ? ...go out and find someone better...but in the case of Gus, not sure where you are going to find that person...unless you just enjoy rolling the dice on some lower level Div 1 coach who might (or might not) strike gold at AU.    Just looking around the SEC....don't actually see a coach I would swap for Gus..and going nationally, not sure I see anyone elsewhere either ...especially anyone who would consider AU at about any salary.  

 

I agree with this. That is why I hope Gus succeeds and I think he will. I am also glad he has taken RESPONSIBILITY and has at least shown he is willing to change. This could be the next step for continued success in our program. As crazy as our program has been, we are still seen as the #2 team in the SEC. We need to start worrying about AU and how we can get better and quit worrying about what that other program is doing. We start working on us and the rest will work itself out.

[keesler 5,928]

16 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Yea... I'd be frustrated if we were fielding 8 win teams, but other than the fluke that was 2015, we're fielding 9-10 win teams and suffering from the injury bug. My point of frustration lies with the conditioning and training teams. I seriously hope that they incorporated A LOT more flexibility training into the program this year.

I'm not sure what it takes to get you frustrated man.  We're sittin at 23-16 in the last 3 years and 1-2 in bowl games with the one bowl win vs Memphis in the B'ham bowl.

We've watch Gus operate a coaching carousel with his staffers, we've witnessed mind numbing play calling, roster management, poor preparation and decision making skills from the man in charge.  

He's put himself in a position where he's pulling damn near $5mm/yr , yet some say he's coaching for his job.  

As fans, we're stuck with him.  He either changes his spots and steps out of his own skin allowing others to take over his specialty or AU football continues on the same path for a few more years.  Because replacing Gus with someone better, more experienced, and a proven winning track record is highly unlikely.

 

[DAG 34,005]

Just now, keesler said:

I'm not sure what it takes to get you frustrated man.  We're sittin at 23-16 in the last 3 years and 1-2 in bowl games with the one bowl win vs Memphis in the B'ham bowl.

We've watch Gus operate a coaching carousel with his staffers, we've witnessed mind numbing play calling, roster management, poor preparation and decision making skills from the man in charge.  

He's put himself in a position where he's pulling damn near $5mm/yr , yet some say he's coaching for his job.  

As fans, we're stuck with him.  He either changes his spots and steps out of his own skin allowing others to take over his specialty or AU football continues on the same path for a few more years.  Because replacing Gus with someone better, more experienced, and a proven winning track record is highly unlikely.

 

4

This is very true. If we do find someone it is going to cost $$$$$$$$$$. However, I would assume that most AU fans want Gus to succeed. I think the frustration boils down to the fact we know we can succeed. We know what Gus is capable of, but he has to get out of his own way. IMO, it is an AU thing. We get out of our own way and we can change the landscape. 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

55 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Except your Lowe's CEO has no relevance to what Saban should be paid. Maybe the Lowe's guy is underpaid. Maybe his total compensation is light years above $13 million once you factor in things like shares in the company. Maybe not. Doesn't matter. alabama's ROI on saban is very, very high.

I can agree that CFB coaches are overpaid, just like a lot of players and a lot of artists and a lot of CEOs and a lot of lawyers and a lot of other types of people. But as far as CFB coaches go, saban is underpaid relative to the amount of money he has made for his employer. 

No relevance? It has all of the relevance in the world when you are demonstrating how out of control the salaries are for football coaches in comparison to the real world. The Lowe's guy isn't underpaid... he's one of the highest paid CEOs in the world. I picked Lowe's because you would recognize the name, but I can do the same exercise with every top paid CEO out there. Their ROI is astronomically higher than a football coach. Do you realize that the highest paid coach today is making more than 10 times what the highest paid coach made in 2000? The rest of the country has seen a 0.5% increase in the same period. Yes, there are a lot of people who probably make more than they should, but college football coaches are at the pinnacle of that mountain.

No, Saban is not underpaid relative to the amount of money he made his employer.  First, he's not the only one who made that money and second, based on your own numbers he is claiming 15% of the money his part of athletics made, and next year that goes to at least 20%. I challenge you to find any company out there were a single person is a 15-20% debt line.  If the man literally worked 4/7/365 he'd be making over $1200/hour next year.

I'm baffled how you can't see the big picture in this. Hell even Terry Bradshaw called his salary "shameful". 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

8 minutes ago, keesler said:

I'm not sure what it takes to get you frustrated man.

Something A LOT more important than college football.

9 minutes ago, keesler said:

We're sittin at 23-16 in the last 3 years and 1-2 in bowl games with the one bowl win vs Memphis in the B'ham bowl.

Which looks pretty bad on paper (though A LOT better than the majority of schools), but when you consider the circumstances surrounding it, it's all fixable, and should be fixed this year. As long as I can understand why something is the way it is, and know that the why has been addressed, it doesn't bug me.  That's why I will NEVER watch last year's Clemson game again... there is no why for that one.

13 minutes ago, keesler said:

He's put himself in a position where he's pulling damn near $5mm/yr , yet some say he's coaching for his job.

Let's face it... this is the SEC. If you're not winning titles you're coaching for your job. If it make you feel better think of Gus' salary as half what Harbaugh makes, and he's 20-3 and 1-1 in bowl games in his 2 years against much weaker overall competition. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

9 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

No relevance? It has all of the relevance in the world when you are demonstrating how out of control the salaries are for football coaches in comparison to the real world. The Lowe's guy isn't underpaid... he's one of the highest paid CEOs in the world. I picked Lowe's because you would recognize the name, but I can do the same exercise with every top paid CEO out there. Their ROI is astronomically higher than a football coach. Do you realize that the highest paid coach today is making more than 10 times what the highest paid coach made in 2000? The rest of the country has seen a 0.5% increase in the same period. Yes, there are a lot of people who probably make more than they should, but college football coaches are at the pinnacle of that mountain.

No, Saban is not underpaid relative to the amount of money he made his employer.  First, he's not the only one who made that money and second, based on your own numbers he is claiming 15% of the money his part of athletics made, and next year that goes to at least 20%. I challenge you to find any company out there were a single person is a 15-20% debt line.

I'm baffled how you can't see the big picture in this. Hell even Terry Bradshaw called his salary "shameful". 

Terry Bradshaw's opinions on the game of football are meaningful. His opinions on the business of it are not. By the way, Terry Bradshaw gets paid a million bucks a year to sit in a studio for a few hours on fall Sundays and joke around with a bunch of other old jocks. Do you think he's really in a position to opine on what other people get paid? Are you sure that he's not at the pinnacle of that mountain?

As for the big picture, you can't really define what *yours* is and then get upset when others have a different one. 

 

 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

28 minutes ago, AU64 said:

JMO but what NS is paid is the American way....all about supply and demand...or you mostly get what you pay for.

Agreed, but it's not really supply and demand, it's an arms race being driven by agents (funny how they are involved in most business where people are dramatically overpaid). One team pays a coach a ridiculous amount to keep him from jumping ship, so other coaches demand that increase or threaten to leave. Then other schools match the salaries in order to make it so rival coaches aren't priced out of leaving. It's honestly not going to stop until these big schools have to make program cuts in order to afford their coaches.

The sad thing is that the coaches who started it all either all jumped ship or got fired. 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

10 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

As for the big picture, you can't really define what *yours* is and then get upset when others have a different one. 

I wasn't aware that we were all allowed to define what our version of the big picture was.  I thought the big picture was the view of everything out there. I guess it's part of the new "there is no right or wrong" world we live in.

10 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Terry Bradshaw's opinions on the game of football are meaningful. His opinions on the business of it are not. By the way, Terry Bradshaw gets paid a million bucks a year to sit in a studio for a few hours on fall Sundays and joke around with a bunch of other old jocks.

Actually, Mr. Bradshaw spent many years the host and face of Business Day, a TV show and website dedicated to business. He only plays a dumb blonde on TV... but that goes back to the big picture. It feels like most of the people on here's picture doesn't extend beyond football.

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 minute ago, lionheartkc said:

I wasn't aware that we were all allowed to define what our version of the big picture was.  I thought the big picture was the view of everything out there. I guess it's part of the new "there is no right or wrong" world we live in.

You told me that I don't get the big picture. I'm telling you that maybe you're wrong about what the big picture really is. So yeah, there is definitely right and wrong. We spend a lot of time telling each other whom we think is which. 

Quote

Actually, Mr. Bradshaw spent many years the host and face of Business Day, a TV show and website dedicated to business. He only plays a dumb blonde on TV... but that goes back to the big picture. It feels like most of the people on here's picture doesn't extend beyond football.

Ah, so when he's Smart Business Guy on TV, it's real, but when he's Dumb Blond Guy on TV, it's fake. Got it. Tell me more about his actual business acumen. Has he been investing his money wisely the last +/-50 years he's been earning it?

Also, did Bradshaw only say that saban's salary is "shameful", or was he calling out all coaches? Because we really are having 2 conversations. One is whether or not all big time CFB coaches get paid too much, and the other is whether or not saban makes too much relative to other CFB coaches. The former is certainly up for debate. The latter is far less so to me, and is really the only point I initially tried to make. 

Oh, and back to the CEOs, they're still not relevant. Different industries, different jobs. I don't really care if Bob Dudley is over- or underpaid. He's not a college football coach. 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

2 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

You told me that I don't get the big picture. I'm telling you that maybe you're wrong about what the big picture really is. So yeah, there is definitely right and wrong. We spend a lot of time telling each other whom we think is which. 

Not trying to be a jerk, but "big picture" means the entire view of everything.

3 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Tell me more about his actual business acumen. Has he been investing his money wisely the last +/-50 years he's been earning it?

His net worth is currently $15 million.  I'd say he's doing pretty good.

3 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Also, did Bradshaw only say that saban's salary is "shameful", or was he calling out all coaches? Because we really are having 2 conversations. One is whether or not all big time CFB coaches get paid too much, and the other is whether or not saban makes too much relative to other CFB coaches. The former is certainly up for debate. The latter is far less so to me, and is really the only point I initially tried to make. 

He called out Saban specifically, but I think it was just because they were discussing his raise.  He specifically sited that Saban was making more than the majority of schools have in their whole football budget.  My argument is that ALL of the top football coaches make too much and that, even with his success, Saban is no exception.

5 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Oh, and back to the CEOs, they're still not relevant. Different industries, different jobs. I don't really care if Bob Dudley is over- or underpaid. He's not a college football coach. 

This is where we get into the whole "big picture" thing.  It's a question of economics. When one industry, in this case college football, is drastically outpacing everything else out there, it's what's broken. When you have one group who is not only outpacing, but lapping the rest of the country, then there are outside influences that are artificially inflating it's value. At some point, there will be consequences as the economy itself won't be able to keep up with the pace. At some point, the sources of money coming in aren't going to be able to afford these coaches. Right now, if coaches salaries had progressed at the proper rate, Saban and Harbaugh would be making about $2.75 million.

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 minute ago, lionheartkc said:

Not trying to be a jerk, but "big picture" means the entire view of everything.

Ah. So since we disagree, I don't "grasp" the "entire view of everything". A bit condescending, no? 

Quote

This is where we get into the whole "big picture" thing.  It's a question of economics. When one industry, in this case college football, is drastically outpacing everything else out there, it's what's broken. When you have one group who is not only outpacing, but lapping the rest of the country, then there are outside influences that are artificially inflating it's value. At some point, there will be consequences as the economy itself won't be able to keep up with the pace. At some point, the sources of money coming in aren't going to be able to afford these coaches. Right now, if coaches salaries had progressed at the proper rate, Saban and Harbaugh would be making about $2.75 million.

So your point isn't that saban is overpaid relative to others in his industry. Your point is that the entire industry is problematic. That's fine. That's not an idea I've agreed or disagreed with, which I'm pretty sure I said very early on*.

However, you- like Bradshaw- did say early on and very specifically that saban makes too much, and that was the comment that I and others were responding to. Given the context of the conversation, I'll forgive myself and others who inferred that you were referring to his salary relative to that of others in the profession.

*Now, I did say that football revenue at alabama has grown by far more than what they're paying him- their profit has gone from $7 million to $47 million during his tenure, so several multiples of his increases in salary in terms of percentage- and that enrollment has grown by 13,000 students. That's a 30-40% increase in enrollment in 10 years. I don't have a way to factor how much that affects the university's bottom line, but it looks like Forbes does. I wonder if they have any grasp on the big picture? Not to mention how much positive effect there is on the state economy when the 2 big teams are winning. Anyway, it seems that the growth of saban's employer is significantly outpacing what they're paying him. Maybe they won't catch Lowe's or any other companies who fit your preferred economic model, but they're certainly headed in the right direction. 

[Barnacle 9,064]

It's a question of value and risk. Revenues in college football have more than doubled in the past 10 years. That's real money. If a school believes it will get more value out of Coach "A" for X than Coach "B" for <X, then they are going to pay Coach A more money. Nothing else is really relevant.