Hugh Freeze Resigns

[keesler 5,928]

On 7/28/2017 at 6:26 PM, DAG said:

That might be true, but it is not just BAMA. Do you think Arkansas is okay with Ole Miss recruiting that way? Or Mississippi State was okay with this new recently developed recruiting tactics? More so, my issue is people need to quit giving Bama credit for everything. That is insane. BTW, AU doesn't need to be squeaky for the sake of Bama. Although it does help. AU needs to be squeaky clean period because we built a perception nationally. I donWe just had someone rationalize CGM issues due to trying to keep up with Bama. 't know how many people travel outside the south, but my work allows me to travel to the west, east, etc. Being an AU grad, of course, I wear my gear. The country does not like us, folks and it has nothing to do with Bama. It has been brought about due to mishaps in the past and the presence of the Cam Newton case.  Therefore, we have no choice but to be on our Ps and Qs which we are.

Good post!

 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

On 7/28/2017 at 6:26 PM, DAG said:

That might be true, but it is not just BAMA. Do you think Arkansas is okay with Ole Miss recruiting that way? Or Mississippi State was okay with this new recently developed recruiting tactics? More so, my issue is people need to quit giving Bama credit for everything. We just had someone rationalize CGM issues due to trying to keep up with Bama. That is insane. BTW, AU doesn't need to be squeaky for the sake of Bama. Although it does help. AU needs to be squeaky clean period because we built a perception nationally. I don't know how many people travel outside the south, but my work allows me to travel to the west, east, etc. Being an AU grad, of course, I wear my gear. The country does not like us, folks and it has nothing to do with Bama. It has been brought about due to mishaps in the past and the presence of the Cam Newton case.  Therefore, we have no choice but to be on our Ps and Qs which we are.

No one is okay with Ole Miss cheating, but even you have to admit that bama has the largest collection of psycho-obsessive fans who make it their life's mission to take down any program who threatens theirs, possibly in the nation, but certainly in the SEC. I guarantee you that there isn't a group of Auburn fans turning over rocks to find some malfeasance of the part of our rivals.  Sure, if something comes out, the fans jump on it, but it's a known fact that there are organized bama fans out there who will go as far as to fabricate wrongdoings on their part of their rivals, in an attempt to insure the upper hand. Heck, for years you could count on something salacious coming out about every threat to bama, one to two week before they are supposed to play. 

As for travelling outside the South, I live outside of the South and travel all over.  Other than a few places like Oregon (those people are just messed up), I get a very warm reception as an Auburn fan. In fact, most of the time I'm engaged in conversation about college football with a fan of a team outside of the SEC, the only negative talk is about how annoying bama is, not anything negative about Auburn. Heck, even the Clemson fans I've met like Auburn. The only time Cam comes up is from bama, UGA, LSU, Tennessee or Oregon fans.

The national media hates Auburn, but let's face is, the national media spends most of their time kissing the feet of Saban, so of course they hate his biggest rival. It doesn't hurt that bama cranks out journalism students to fill roles in the national sports media.

And, by the way, EVERY coach in the SEC has issues because of trying to keep up with bama (well, every coach of a mid or higher tier SEC team), because every single one of them has a decent size fan base that will not be happy until they are achieving the same unprecedented level of success. The bama machine, as it is currently operating, has made it a nightmare to be an SEC coach... ask Mark Richt and Les Miles, both of whom would still be coaching in the SEC had bama not being going on this crazy run of success. Because of the expectations that fans have set due to bama's run, Gus has a harder time recruiting (hot seat talk), and a lot more pressure on his shoulders to win than he would if the trophies were being spread around.

[Beaker 2,457]

38 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Heck, for years you could count on something salacious coming out about every threat to bama, one to two week before they are supposed to play.    ALA THE CAM SCANDAL THAT WOULDN'T DIE 

 

And you are right about U of A pumping out journalism grads that work for national media which perpetuate bama's momentum and try to create advantages for them in the light of the media.   This will only get worse in the coming years; just consider that we have no objective print journalism in mainstream news today.  Heck, very little in TV.  It is only a matter of time til that crap bleeds into our sports.  You already have ESPN trying to inject/force social and politcal issues into sports. 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

1 minute ago, Beaker said:

And you are right about U of A pumping out journalism grads that work for national media which perpetuate bama's momentum and try to create advantages for them in the light of the media.   This will only get worse in the coming years; just consider that we have no objective print journalism in mainstream news today.  Heck, very little in TV.  It is only a matter of time til that crap bleeds into our sports.  You already have ESPN trying to inject/force social and politcal issues into sports. 

Many, myself included, would argue that sports actually lead the way. My uncle, who is a huge sports fan, stopped watching sports on TV years ago, because he was sick of the talking heads and the crap they were spewing. 

[AUld fAUx@ 2,584]

15 minutes ago, Beaker said:

And you are right about U of A pumping out journalism grads that work for national media which perpetuate bama's momentum and try to create advantages for them in the light of the media.   This will only get worse in the coming years; just consider that we have no objective print journalism in mainstream news today.  Heck, very little in TV.  It is only a matter of time til that crap bleeds into our sports.  You already have ESPN trying to inject/force social and politcal issues into sports. 

and one might consider U of Ala's ability to pump out L.L.D.s that contributed to the long-held  de jure definition of Legion Field as a "neutral" site for the Iron Bowl.

[WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737]

I've learned one lesson from this, don't get Houston Nutt angry at you. 

[keesler 5,928]

1 hour ago, WarDamnEagleWDE said:

I've learned one lesson from this, don't get Houston Nutt angry at you. 

Glad you joined this thread WDE.  I distinctly remember praising Freeze back in 2013-2014 as a team we should all watch out for because he was hauling in massive talent for the likes of OleMiss.  He came in hot and drew a ton of attention and I predicted they'd be in mix for a conference championship.  

YOU basically told me to hold my horses, that you knew of several "issues" with those recruiting classes that could come back to haunt them down the road.  You knew way back in the beginning how they were operating on the recruiting trail.  

[AU64 10,122]

25 minutes ago, keesler said:

Glad you joined this thread WDE.  I distinctly remember praising Freeze back in 2013-2014 as a team we should all watch out for because he was hauling in massive talent for the likes of OleMiss.  He came in hot and drew a ton of attention and I predicted they'd be in mix for a conference championship.  

YOU basically told me to hold my horses, that you knew of several "issues" with those recruiting classes that could come back to haunt them down the road.  You knew way back in the beginning how they were operating on the recruiting trail.  

Yep...this was hard to predict based on what the media presented back a few years ago. 

Have a good friend who is big OM fan and his father (my generation) is a fanatic.   Buddy said he about  had to talk his dad off the roof when the news broke the other day.   Even with the stuff dribbling out for the past year, most of the loyal fans like Buddy's dad believed in Freeze and thought he would end up cleared personally in the "matter"  and defended HF as needed.    HF and minions really abused the trust of those who were avid defenders and believed the lies. .

[DAG 34,005]

Sorry, I don't have the vitriol of hate that you have for Alabama so there is no reason for us to continue discussing this because it won't be a rational conversation. I definitely have my dislike for teams, but as a fan of the game, I try to be unbias and impartial as much as possible.  I  hate to say it but some of you guys are as bad as the Bama fateful TBH when it comes to disillusioned.

 Alabama is doing something unprecedented in the sports world.  Most fans understand that keeping up with Alabama's recent success is not realistic. However, that does not mean you should let them walk all over you either. That is a lame ass excuse. CGM problems are innate. It unacceptable to field some of the offenses that he has produced the last couple of years. That Clemson game was a debacle. Was that NS fault? Losing to UGA 3 out of 4  years? Was that also NS fault? Not having a backup plan for the last couple of years? Also, NS fault, right?   Some of this stuff you guys say is so ridiculous it doesn't even make sense.

Really? Mark Richt got fired because his team constantly choked with highly rated recruiting classes. It wasn't just against Alabama, either.  He never in all of his years at UGA, could get over the hump. Heck AU got over the hump more than he did and he was coaching in a watered down SEC east for quite a bit. No school or fan base is going to continuously accept that.

Les Miles? LSU was frustrated with not beating Bama but that was not what ultimately got him fired. What got him fired and what will get CGM fired if he doesn't change pronto was his inability to adapt. With all the talent in the world, LSU could not groom a QB and had a modest offense at best most of the time he was there. Once you become a winner, you have to keep adapting. You can't keep doing the same things over and over. Does this sound familiar? Trying to recreate NMs and the 2013  AU offense? It reflected in the way LSU played. Losing badly to average Arkansas teams and losing to us in a field goal medley. That fan base might deal with losing to the best. They are not going to go for losing to Arkansas, ole miss, Wisconsin, AU in a fashion like last year. That won't be accepted by any blue chip program. It should not be accepted by us, either.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

Just now, DAG said:

Sorry, I don't have the vitriol of hate that you have for Alabama so there is no reason for us to continue discussing this because it won't be a rational conversation.

I don't have a vitriol hate for bama. Everything I've said about the obsessive members of their fan base has been documented ad nauseum. Heck, they brag about some of the things I've mentioned.

2 minutes ago, DAG said:

Most fans understand that keeping up with Alabama's recent success is not realistic.

I wish this were true, but it's unfortunately not. Heck, I don't even thing most of the people on this board realize it's not realistic. Some do, but I hesitate to say most. Want proof of how the fans in the SEC think it's realistic. Georgia fired a coach who averaged between 9 and 10 wins per season for 15 year, and was not showing any drop off. LSU fired a coach that averaged more than 10 wins a season and won a National Championship for them without having a proven winner waiting in the wings. Why... because they weren't keeping up bama and the fans weren't happy.

You need to read with a bit more objectivity, DAG. Every time I or several others site specific instances of true circumstances that happen to mention bama, you read them as overarching conspiracy theories and excuses for things that have absolutely no tie to what is being discussed. For instance, I never said that Saban had an effect on how Gus coaches, I said he and the unprecedented run that bama is having made Gus's job harder because the fans expect more from him than they would were bama not having the run. That's a fact. It may be entirely unintentional, but you are looking for irrational commentary, so your finding it in places where it doesn't exist.

[DAG 34,005]

9 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

I don't have a vitriol hate for bama. Everything I've said about the obsessive members of their fan base has been documented ad nauseum. Heck, they brag about some of the things I've mentioned.

I wish this were true, but it's unfortunately not. Heck, I don't even thing most of the people on this board realize it's not realistic. Some do, but I hesitate to say most. Want proof of how the fans in the SEC think it's realistic. Georgia fired a coach who averaged between 9 and 10 wins per season for 15 year, and was not showing any drop off. LSU fired a coach that averaged more than 10 wins a season and won a National Championship for them without having a proven winner waiting in the wings. Why... because they weren't keeping up bama and the fans weren't happy.

You need to read with a bit more objectivity, DAG. Every time I or several others site specific instances of true circumstances that happen to mention bama, you read them as overarching conspiracy theories and excuses for things that have absolutely no tie to what is being discussed. For instance, I never said that Saban had an effect on how Gus coaches, I said he and the unprecedented run that bama is having made Gus's job harder because the fans expect more from him than they would were bama not having the run. That's a fact. It may be entirely unintentional, but you are looking for irrational commentary, so your finding it in places where it doesn't exist.

12

And I am telling that is complete BS. Yes, his job might be harder but that is not the reason why fans have lost patience with him or why he has questionable job security, That is an assumption on your part. Now, let me give you some facts.

Fact: Lost 3 out of 4 years against UGA

Fact: 4 -8 against the likes of LSU, Bama and UGA

Fact: 2015, we had the 94th ranked total offense. In 2016, we had the 42nd ranked total offense. Stark improvement, but still unacceptable for someone of CGM nature

Fact: 2016, 112th ranked passing offense in the nation. 2015, 111th ranked passing offense in the nation. Again, if he was a defensive coach, I could overlook this, but this is not the case.

Fact: 2016, Auburn was the #49 scoring offense in the nation. 2015, AU  was the #74 scoring offense in the nation.

 

These are Auburn issues. Your claim is subjective at best and it might be somewhat accurate, but you have no validity of data to back up your statement. Other than, what people on message boards are saying.

What I (Subjective) expect of Gus is to run a competent offense and to be competitive in every game.  Can anybody on this thread truthfully say that has been the case? Or is it because of Bama's unprecedented run that we expect this much out of him?

[lionheartkc 6,150]

Just now, DAG said:

And I am telling that is complete BS. Yes, his job might be harder but that is not the reason why fans have lost patience with him or why he has questionable job security, That is an assumption on your part. Now, let me give you some facts.

Fact: Lost 3 out of 4 years against UGA

Fact: 4 -8 against the likes of LSU, Bama and UGA

Fact: 2015, we had the 94th ranked total offense. In 2016, we had the 42nd ranked total offense. Stark improvement, but still unacceptable for someone of CGM nature

Fact: 2016, 112th ranked passing offense in the nation. 2015, 111th ranked passing offense in the nation. Again, if he was a defensive coach, I could overlook this, but this is not the case.

Fact: 2016, Auburn was the #49 scoring offense in the nation. 2015, AU  was the #74 scoring offense in the nation.

 

These are Auburn issues. Your claim is subjective at best and it might be somewhat accurate, but you have no validity of data to back up your statement. Other than, what people on message boards are saying.

What I (Subjective) expect of Gus is to run a competent offense and to be competitive in every game.  Can anybody on this thread truthfully say that has been the case? Or is it because of Bama's unprecedented run that we expect this much out of him?

Fact... Fans are demanding 10+ wins per season in the SEC West. That is an unprecedented expectation for an Auburn coach.

Fact... Fans are demanding not only SEC Championships, but National Championships. An SEC Championship used to be considered a crowning achievement and a National Championship a dream season.

Fact... Fans have been claiming he is on the hot seat since the end of 2014, because they expected a return the to the championship game, basically writing our opponents script in recruiting for them. Three games into 2015 and many were ready to run him out of town right then.

Fact... you just said that having the 42 ranked total offense after being ranked 94th the previous year, in a season where 80% of our backfield was injured at one time or another and our starting running back got himself kicked off of the team right before the season, is unacceptable, which ranks you squarely among the fans with unreasonable expectations. 

HOWEVER, once again, the conversation wasn't a referendum on Gus's coaching ability... it is a FACT that bama's run has made fan expectations higher and made SEC coach's jobs harder than they were when there was more parity in the league. 

[DAG 34,005]

42 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Fact... Fans are demanding 10+ wins per season in the SEC West. That is an unprecedented expectation for an Auburn coach.

Fact... Fans are demanding not only SEC Championships, but National Championships. An SEC Championship used to be considered a crowning achievement and a National Championship a dream season.

Fact... Fans have been claiming he is on the hot seat since the end of 2014, because they expected a return the to the championship game, basically writing our opponents script in recruiting for them. Three games into 2015 and many were ready to run him out of town right then.

Fact... you just said that having the 42 ranked total offense after being ranked 94th the previous year, in a season where 80% of our backfield was injured at one time or another and our starting running back got himself kicked off of the team right before the season, is unacceptable, which ranks you squarely among the fans with unreasonable expectations. 

HOWEVER, once again, the conversation wasn't a referendum on Gus's coaching ability... it is a FACT that bama's run has made fan expectations higher and made SEC coach's jobs harder than they were when there was more parity in the league. 

So no data? Okay cool

Yep, you are right. It is unreasonable of me to ask our multimillion dollar coach to field a competent offense and have the team play at a competitive level. How horrible of me.

 

[keesler 5,928]

Screw parity ~ Expectations are high, but so are the damn salaries these guys are pulling.  Facilities are soaring out of the roof, and Auburn boasts one of the highest recruiting budgets in the country.  Revenue is pouring in and the SECNetwork has boosted that revenue to unprecedented levels.  

If Nick Saban came in and raised the bar, then so be it - I've had the time of my life personally witnessing Auburn field a couple of true championship level teams.  If he was the catalyst that spurred Auburn to put a product on the field that brought home our first NC in over 50+ years, then BooYah!, I thought I may not live to see it with my own eyes and I was sitting in the stands when AU made 2 title appearances.  

Coaches will put up or shut up now, they will earn their pay or they will get canned.  But one thing is for certain, no program will tolerate a mediocrity any longer ~ They better "Earn It!" or get gone.

 

 

 

[aujeff11 6,243]

Gus's demise will be unpleasant but he will be solely responsible.

His product has been inconsistent, it has yielded some outright embarrassing football games( Clemson 2016),  helped relinquish the overall lead against Georgia,  force a one-time offensive guru to give up his playcalling, and it fell victim to absurd unrealistic expectations after the first initial year of extreme success. 

Gus is on his last life right now. He is going to have to win at least of two of the rivalry games. 

 

With that said, I don't necessarily think fans demand National Championships. However, I do think they demand that their teams to remain competitive and in contention.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

20 minutes ago, DAG said:

So no data? Okay cool

Yep, you are right. It is unreasonable of me to ask our multimillion dollar coach to field a competent offense and have the team play at a competitive level. How horrible of me.

You read this board as much as I do. You don't need data. You know it's true.

As for a competent offense... hmmm... let's see how the SEC did last year, shall we?

Missouri - 13
Texas A&M - 24
Ole-Miss - 26
Alabama - 34
Tennessee - 40
Auburn - 43
Mississippi State - 44
Arkansas - 54
LSU - 59
Kentucky - 61
Georgia - 87
Vandy - 110
Florida - 116

Looks like Auburn is in the top half of the pack there, again, even though nearly all of their backfield was injured for some percentage of the season. Heck, they even did better than 2 schools who had arguably two of the top QBs in the conference.

Don't let your frustration with how the last couple of years turned out cloud your ability see the positives.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

11 minutes ago, keesler said:

Screw parity ~ Expectations are high, but so are the damn salaries these guys are pulling.  Facilities are soaring out of the roof, and Auburn boasts one of the highest recruiting budgets in the country.  Revenue is pouring in and the SECNetwork has boosted that revenue to unprecedented levels.  

Coaches will put up or shut up now, they will earn their pay or they will get canned.  But one thing is for certain, no program will tolerate a mediocrity any longer ~ They better "Earn It!" or get gone.

 

 

 

You do like the "we pay him too much" argument.  Let's look at it this way, if I were to hire someone at, say, $30,000/year, I shouldn't expect the same level of results I would get from someone I hired at $60,000/year, right.  So why only paying $4.7 million and expecting great things, when Harbaugh is raking in a cool $9 million, Saban is raking in $7 million, and Meyer is making $6 million? 

If you look at it in the ludicrous grand scheme of things, Gus is barely in the top 10 when it comes to salary and out performing 3 coaches who make more than him. The truth of the matter is that all coaches are making FAR too much money and none of them are earning what they are being paid... not even Saban.  

[DAG 34,005]

21 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

You read this board as much as I do. You don't need data. You know it's true.

As for a competent offense... hmmm... let's see how the SEC did last year, shall we?

Missouri - 13
Texas A&M - 24
Ole-Miss - 26
Alabama - 34
Tennessee - 40
Auburn - 43
Mississippi State - 44
Arkansas - 54
LSU - 59
Kentucky - 61
Georgia - 87
Vandy - 110
Florida - 116

Looks like Auburn is in the top half of the pack there, again, even though nearly all of their backfield was injured for some percentage of the season. Heck, they even did better than 2 schools who had arguably two of the top QBs in the conference.

Don't let your frustration with how the last couple of years turned out cloud your ability see the positives.

6th best in the SEC, when the SEC only had two top 25 offenses? What made you think that would be a good stat to reinforce your position? Especially from the offensive GURU himself? If anything, we should have been much higher. 4th in the SEC west too. WOW.

When you have data, instead of message board folly to support your argument, then get back to me. Otherwise, you are looking pretty foolish on this thread.

[aujeff11 6,243]

6 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

You do like the "we pay him too much" argument.  Let's look at it this way, if I were to hire someone at, say, $30,000/year, I shouldn't expect the same level of results I would get from someone I hired at $60,000/year, right.  So why only paying $4.7 million and expecting great things, when Harbaugh is raking in a cool $9 million, Saban is raking in $7 million, and Meyer is making $6 million? 

If you look at it in the ludicrous grand scheme of things, Gus is barely in the top 10 when it comes to salary and out performing 3 coaches who make more than him. The truth of the matter is that all coaches are making FAR too much money and none of them are earning what they are being paid... not even Saban.  

The investment in Saban has been returned many fold. 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

1 minute ago, DAG said:

6th best in the SEC, when the SEC only had two top 25 offenses? What made you think that would be a good stat to reinforce your position? Especially from the offensive GURU himself? If anything, we should have been much higher.

When you have data, instead of message board folly to support your argument, then get back to me. Otherwise, you are looking pretty foolish on this thread.

Have you ever looked at the rankings of schools with the best offenses.  A huge chunk of the top 25 is filled with little schools who play no one.  The rest is primarily schools in conferences like the Big 12 who don't know how to play defense. What made me know it was a good stat is that it correctly reflects the expectations that should be had for schools taking on SEC defenses week in and week out last year.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

7 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

The investment in Saban has been returned many fold. 

Correct, but he still hasn't done anything worthy of seven freakin' million dollars a year.

[aujeff11 6,243]

2 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Correct, but he still hasn't done anything worthy of seven freakin' million dollars a year.

If money is no issue, and if I was AD at an SEC school, I'd be more than happy to pay his salary. His success... multiple championships, multiple conference championships, multiple heismans, etc.

Dare me to say that he is underpaid because I'll do it in a heartbeat

[Beaker 2,457]

No data here:

Gus has never fielded a team with this much talent on O.  Prob only one on D.   Even the O line is HUGE and has plenty of experience.  (The O line is the weak link some of you keep saying)

Gus has a horrible record against his rivals.

2 of the 3 rivals are at home this year.

If he beats 2 of the 3 and wins the easier games, he is fine and we prob get the needed recruits.  If he loses 2 of the 3 OR drops 2 games in which we have a huge advantage, well....he will have a year off probably.   Clemson game will not be a deciding factor.  

It really is pretty simple: 2 of the 3 and better not have 2 'bad' losses, excluding Clemson.

[DAG 34,005]

39 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Have you ever looked at the rankings of schools with the best offenses.  A huge chunk of the top 25 is filled with little schools who play no one.  The rest is primarily schools in conferences like the Big 12 who don't know how to play defense. What made me know it was a good stat is that it correctly reflects the expectations that should be had for schools taking on SEC defenses week in and week out last year.

AU played four (3 of them from the sec) teams ranked in the top 25 in total defense last year. They also played Missippi State  (110) , Ole miss (111), Texas A&M (90) and Arkansas (75).   There should be no reason AU is 6th among SEC schools in total offense. You have a point with the big 12, they don't play great defenses, but to be fair, the big 12 brass can turn around and say, the SEC defenses statistics are overrated because they play terrible offenses. We sit here and trash other teams conferences, but last year the SEC went 1-2 against the big 12 and all three games were dog fights (for the most part).

3 of those games were some of the worst offenses performances I have ever seen. No TDs against LSU. 1 TD against UGA, 1  TD against Clemson. Zero TDs against Bama. Troy put up more points against Clemson.  Unacceptable. Those defenses are legit, but they aren't that superior over our talent. I mean if we are just going to accept playing piss poor against the legit teams then we might as well save money.

[Maverick.AU 13,281]

35 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Correct, but he still hasn't done anything worthy of seven freakin' million dollars a year.

To be fair, and I'm a Gus fan at heart, what has Gus done to earn 4.7 mil a year?

On your other post I respectfully disagree. I do not think it is wrong for fans to want 9-10+ win seasons consistently instead of constantly limping to 8-5, I don't think it's a stretch to expect a team that brings in top talent to be in the run for the playoff every year. There's a difference between being a good 9-10 wins on a regular basis and having that dream season in there, but when it's "dream season" and then u add in 8-5 or less otherwise, that does get tiresome, so I understand frustrations. I also realize your post was worded a little differently than I worded mine, but my point was, I think the major problem is that with our talent 8-5 when we're not winning the conference is hard for a lot of fans to take. I can say myself that it's very frustrating 

That said, I think Gus has taken the right steps to have a great season this year, but only time will tell.