Woman accuses Kavanaugh of sexual assault decades ago

[AUDub 11,158]

On 9/19/2018 at 11:30 AM, AUDub said:

This is good journalism

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/opinions/arlington-texas/?utm_term=.97b614500dfc

WaPo posted a follow-up. 

Link

The new believers weren’t all strangers. Some voices came from the past, and that, it turned out, was the most powerful gift of all. “I was at Martin at the time of Amber’s rape and was a team captain on the football team,” one former student wrote in a lengthy email to me. “I also attended the party in the article. I wanted to share my thoughts on what I think I owe Amber. I owe her my regret of not doing more in the moment and after. While I did not participate in the after-effects of writing on the wall and FAITH, I didn’t do anything to stop it, and I had a voice that might have been listened to.”

Other Martin students and Arlington residents have contacted Wyatt to apologize for how they treated her back then, and to disavow their loyalties to those who hurt her. In the Martin High School Class of 2008 reunion Facebook group where she posted her story, several former students sounded similar notes of regret. “Amber, I’m not sure why I pretended to know what happened,” one male classmate wrote, “and then even how vastly incorrect my understanding of the situation was. ... I’m sorry we all thought 6 months of sports was more important than your livelihood.” A female classmate added: “I am so sorry we all failed you when you needed help.” And another: “I’m disgusted by my own behavior at the time and I apologize.”

[TexasTiger 12,961]

1 hour ago, AUDub said:

From the WaPo article:

"As negotiations continued, Leland Keyser, a woman Ford told The Washington Post was present at the party where she alleges Kavanaugh assaulted her, came forward to say she “does not know Mr. Kavanaugh and she has no recollection of ever being at a party or gathering where he was present,” according to an email her lawyer sent to the Senate Judiciary Committee, obtained by The Post. In a brief interview at her home in Silver Spring, Keyser said that she did not recall the party, but that she was close friends with Ford and that she believes Ford’s allegation."

Barring something highly unusual happening that you experienced, few people are going to remember being at a particular high school party 36 years before. The fact that Ford remembers some of the people there, without confirming with them what they’ll say, makes her story seem more credible, not less. She hasn’t lined up witnesses, she’s just shared what she remembers.

[homersapien 11,393]

1 hour ago, AUDub said:

WaPo posted a follow-up. 

Link

 

 

"Crowd think" is a frightening thing.  One of the negatives associated with being social creatures.

[homersapien 11,393]

1 hour ago, TexasTiger said:

Barring something highly unusual happening that you experienced, few people are going to remember being at a particular high school party 36 years before. The fact that Ford remembers some of the people there, without confirming with them what they’ll say, makes her story seem more credible, not less. She hasn’t lined up witnesses, she’s just shared what she remembers.

No one witnessed what happened in that room other than Kavanaugh and Judge, according to Ford's testimony, right?

[Mikey 16,640]

On 9/21/2018 at 11:11 AM, TitanTiger said:

This whole thing reads like that "As the Plains Burn" conspiracy tale cooked up over at TigerDroppings and fomented on Bama boards by a couple of their supposed insiders a few years back during the Cam stuff.

We agree! Ford came up with this unsubstantiated BS in an attempt to achieve a political goal. If she can produce evidence and witnesses that will testify on her behalf, fine. If not, she should face criminal charges for attempting to ruin another person's life.

Every coach, preacher, scout leader and teacher, regardless of gender, should be very nervous if unproven claims going back decades are going to be taken seriously. Suppose 25 years ago Bessie Lou was on your debate team and there were no problems. Now you hand her daughter a D in English and PO'D Bessie Lou claims that you "tried something" with her way back then. You're in a mess when you did nothing wrong, then or now. Accusations without supporting evidence cannot be taken seriously and acted on. If they are, no one can rest easy.

[homersapien 11,393]

12 minutes ago, Mikey said:

We agree! Ford came up with this unsubstantiated BS in an attempt to achieve a political goal. If she can produce evidence and witnesses that will testify on her behalf, fine. If not, she should face criminal charges for attempting to ruin another person's life.

Every coach, preacher, scout leader and teacher, regardless of gender, should be very nervous if unproven claims going back decades are going to be taken seriously. Suppose 25 years ago Bessie Lou was on your debate team and there were no problems. Now you hand her daughter a D in English and PO'D Bessie Lou claims that you "tried something" with her way back then. You're in a mess when you did nothing wrong, then or now. Accusations without supporting evidence cannot be taken seriously and acted on. If they are, no one can rest easy.

Well, there we are.

[GiveEmElle 1,559]

And suddenly a new factor in rape culture is “attempting to achieve a political goal.” 

 

[DKW 86 7,431]

1 hour ago, TexasTiger said:

Barring something highly unusual happening that you experienced, few people are going to remember being at a particular high school party 36 years before. The fact that Ford remembers some of the people there, without confirming with them what they’ll say, makes her story seem more credible, not less. She hasn’t lined up witnesses, she’s just shared what she remembers.

What part of doesnt know and never knew BK do you not get?

[DKW 86 7,431]

Just now, Proud Tiger said:

He don't get what he don't want to hear.

Apparently. The female lifelong friend of Dr Ford pretty much just torched her story. She said she never met and doesnt know BK. How can that be anything other than damning to anyone with a sound rational mind? All 3-4 of the witnesses Ford named all deny her story. It is now 4-5:1. If you tell me you believe the one over the other 4-5 then you really arent doing anything other than identity politics. 

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

3 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

Apparently. The female lifelong friend of Dr Ford pretty much just torched her story. She said she never met and doesnt know BK. How can that be anything other than damning to anyone with a sound rational mind? All 3-4 of the witnesses Ford named all deny her story. It is now 4-5:1. If you tell me you believe the one over the other 4-5 then you really arent doing anything other than identity politics. 

Add another female Kavanaugh supporter.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/09/22/stand-with-brett-kavanaugh.html

 

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

A WaPO opinion piece.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/09/21/marc-thiessen-ford-vs-kavanaugh-how-much-evidence-do-need-to-destroy-someone.html

He nails it for me.

My mind starting wondering to all this stuff in church this morning during the pastor's sermon. I thought how can anyone believe Ford and not believe Jesus rose from the dead since there were many witnesses and books written about it.

[TexasTiger 12,961]

19 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

What part of doesnt know and never knew BK do you not get?

Again, basic logic evades you.

[DKW 86 7,431]

1 minute ago, TexasTiger said:

Again, basic logic evades you.

No. that would be YOU Sir. If every single witness named by an accuser says that it didnt happen, we need to set aside the politics and listen. 

The three males and the named female, a lifelong friend of Ford, all say it did not happen. The female even adds that she hasnt met BK and didnt know him even socially in HS. Those are the facts of this case. We have a single accusation, 36 years old, by one person. Any sound rational mature mind would look at that and conclude that even IF there is something there, you have to have a modicum of proof or evidence, etc to proceed. If the foundation of a decision is not there, how can you then proceed to the next step?

Dont let your passion for politics override your character and your judgment. This is not the end of the world. We will have another day. There is always another day.

[AUDub 11,158]

1 minute ago, DKW 86 said:

No. that would be YOU Sir. If every single witness named by an accuser says that it didnt happen, we need to set aside the politics and listen. 

The three males and the named female, a lifelong friend of Ford, all say it did not happen. The female even adds that she hasnt met BK and didnt know him even socially in HS. Those are the facts of this case. We have a single accusation, 36 years old, by one person. Any sound rational mature mind would look at that and conclude that even IF there is something there, you have to have a modicum of proof or evidence, etc to proceed. If the foundation of a decision is not there, how can you then proceed to the next step?

Dont let your passion for politics override your character and your judgment. This is not the end of the world. We will have another day. There is always another day.

 

[DKW 86 7,431]

2 minutes ago, AUDub said:

 

I'll give you $50 if you'll sober up and admit that there is nothing there. There just arent enough facts to back this up or base a decision on.

[homersapien 11,393]

4 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

No. that would be YOU Sir. If every single witness named by an accuser says that it didnt happen, we need to set aside the politics and listen. 

The three males and the named female, a lifelong friend of Ford, all say it did not happen. The female even adds that she hasnt met BK and didnt know him even socially in HS. Those are the facts of this case. We have a single accusation, 36 years old, by one person. Any sound rational mature mind would look at that and conclude that even IF there is something there, you have to have a modicum of proof or evidence, etc to proceed. If the foundation of a decision is not there, how can you then proceed to the next step?

Dont let your passion for politics override your character and your judgment. This is not the end of the world. We will have another day. There is always another day.

Unless I missed it, no one - other than Kavanaugh - has said "it didn't happen".   That's an inference. 

[TexasTiger 12,961]

15 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

No. that would be YOU Sir. If every single witness named by an accuser says that it didnt happen, we need to set aside the politics and listen. 

The three males and the named female, a lifelong friend of Ford, all say it did not happen. The female even adds that she hasnt met BK and didnt know him even socially in HS. Those are the facts of this case. We have a single accusation, 36 years old, by one person. Any sound rational mature mind would look at that and conclude that even IF there is something there, you have to have a modicum of proof or evidence, etc to proceed. If the foundation of a decision is not there, how can you then proceed to the next step?

Dont let your passion for politics override your character and your judgment. This is not the end of the world. We will have another day. There is always another day.

They all didn’t say it didn’t happen.

[DKW 86 7,431]

6 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Unless I missed it, no one - other than Kavanaugh - has said "it didn't happen".   That's an inference. 

Ford said A, B, C and D were all there with her. 
A-It did not happen.
B&C-We were not there.
D-I didnt even know and have never met A.

Yes, i guess I have to deduce that it probably didnt happen, or more exactly didnt happen the way she said it did.
But what I really said was that there was no one supporting her version of the events in the accusation.

[TexasTiger 12,961]

“In a brief interview at her home in Silver Spring, Keyser said that she did not recall the party, but that she was close friends with Ford and that she believes Ford’s allegation."

This ain’t torching her story. She doesn’t remember the party. Doesn’t remember the guy. She may have little reason to. I was at parties with dozens of folks 36 years ago. Don’t remember most of them.

[homersapien 11,393]

8 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

Ford said A, B, C and D were all there with her. 
A-It did not happen.  ("It being the rape or "it" being her presence at the party?)
B&C-We were not there.  (Not exactly the same as it didn't happen")
D-I didnt even know and have never met A. (Not the same as "it didn't happen")

Yes, i guess I have to deduce that it probably didnt happen, or more exactly didnt happen the way she said it did. (As I said.)
But what I really said was that there was no one supporting her version of the events in the accusation. (Not the same as "it didn't happen")

Then I guess we agree?

See DKW, I can follow complexity - and nuance too! 

[DKW 86 7,431]

2 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

“In a brief interview at her home in Silver Spring, Keyser said that she did not recall the party, but that she was close friends with Ford and that she believes Ford’s allegation."

This ain’t torching her story. She doesn’t remember the party. Doesn’t remember the guy. She may have little reason to. I was at parties with dozens of folks 36 years ago. Don’t remember most of them.

And you are not telling the whole story here. She says she never met BK, and does not know him. Therefore, Fords version of the story is not backed up.

Whether Keyser believes the story is immaterial to whether it actually happened or whether Ford can prove it. Keyser has flatly said that she was not there and therefore cannot be a witness to it happening or even ever having been a party. Keyser stated that she does not know and has never met BK.

[homersapien 11,393]

5 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

“In a brief interview at her home in Silver Spring, Keyser said that she did not recall the party, but that she was close friends with Ford and that she believes Ford’s allegation."

This ain’t torching her story. She doesn’t remember the party. Doesn’t remember the guy. She may have little reason to. I was at parties with dozens of folks 36 years ago. Don’t remember most of them.

It's certainly not the same as "It didn't happen". 

[DKW 86 7,431]

2 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Then I guess we agree?

If you are stating that all adds absolutely nothing to her story. It in fact, invalidates her list of witnesses. It disproves parts of her story.

[homersapien 11,393]

6 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

And you are not telling the whole story here. She says she never met BK, and does not know him. Therefore, Fords version of the story is not backed up.

Whether Keyser believes the story is immaterial to whether it actually happened or whether Ford can prove it. Keyser has flatly said that she was not there and therefore cannot be a witness to it happening or even ever having been a party. Keyser stated that she does not know and has never met BK.

Well let's be literal and consider the complexity and nuance of language:

You are correct in that her testimony doesn't directly "back up" Ford's story, but it doesn't disprove it either.  She may have been there and she didn't have to know BK for the incident to have happened.

[TexasTiger 12,961]

3 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

And you are not telling the whole story here. She says she never met BK, and does not know him. Therefore, Fords version of the story is not backed up.

Whether Keyser believes the story is immaterial to whether it actually happened or whether Ford can prove it. Keyser has flatly said that she was not there and therefore cannot be a witness to it happening or even ever having been a party. Keyser stated that she does not know and has never met BK.

I’m sure I’d say I never met many people I have no memory of. It’s funny how folks talk of how faulty memories are, but exalt folks not remembering experiences that were insignificant to them. I’m not stating what did or did not happen 36 years ago based on what we know— you are. I’m simply not dismissing what she says based on what we now know.