Phil Steele on 2019 Auburn Season

[McLoofus 35,182]

Hah. Look at that. The focus has been taken off of our underperforming OL last year. Well played.

Getting back to what most of the conversation was actually about, the offensive line didn't play very well last year and it will be a very pleasant surprise if they're one of the top 15 OLs in the country, much less top 5. 

[DAG 33,983]

6 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

MSU is easily explainable. The offense refused to perform and the defense got tired and dispirited. For all the whining about rushing yards, they kept MSU out of the endzone until they were completely exhausted in the 4th quarter. UT is explainable in my mind, also, but it's mostly conjecture on my part and cannot be supported by stats or even video replay so I keep it to myself. 

bama... ugh. They just made some great adjustments at half, punched us in the mouth, and kept punching the entire 2nd half. No excuses there. We got whupped that day. 

I don't really see any stinkers in 2016-17, except maybe the SECCG. 

Maybe, but you got to still hold your own at MSU game. You can’t control what the offense does but you fore sure can control how you handle adversity. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

9 minutes ago, DAG said:

Maybe, but you got to still hold your own at MSU game. You can’t control what the offense does but you fore sure can control how you handle adversity. 

They did hold their own. They didn't let MSU in the end zone until the last play of the 1st half, and even that was after Ryan Davis gifted them the ball on our side of the field immediately after our defense had forced yet another 3-and-out. And even on that touchdown, the ball didn't actually cross the goal line.

And, despite the offense not making any adjustments or playing any better at all in the 2nd half, the defense still didn't allow another (actual) touchdown until late in the 4th quarter, when they had been left out on the field entirely too long. 

And, once again, one has to wonder if Steele wasn't forced to continue to play ultra conservative to prevent the big play once he knew our offense couldn't score. 

The defense didn't play their best. The offense lost the game. 

[DAG 33,983]

3 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

They did hold their own. They didn't let MSU in the end zone until the last play of the 1st half, and even that was after Ryan Davis gifted them the ball on our side of the field immediately after our defense had forced yet another 3-and-out. And even on that touchdown, the ball didn't actually cross the goal line.

And, despite the offense not making any adjustments or playing any better at all in the 2nd half, the defense still didn't allow another (actual) touchdown until late in the 4th quarter, when they had been left out on the field entirely too long. 

And, once again, one has to wonder if Steele wasn't forced to continue to play ultra conservative to prevent the big play once he knew our offense couldn't score. 

The defense didn't play their best. The offense lost the game. 

We will just have to agree to disagree on that front bruv! 

[McLoofus 35,182]

5 minutes ago, DAG said:

We will just have to agree to disagree on that front bruv! 

[doc4aday 1,887]

21 hours ago, doc4aday said:

I will look into it for sure.  I love a good movie here and there!  Thanks for the recommendation!

My favorite movies are the Lord of the Rings & James Bond.  There will never be another Sir Sean Connery. Roger Moore did a nice job. Daniel Craig makes a pretty decent Bond.  Pierce Brosnan just did not make the cut imho. Dalton was decent but just was not there.

[ChltteTiger 649]

13 hours ago, doc4aday said:

My favorite movies are the Lord of the Rings & James Bond.  There will never be another Sir Sean Connery. Roger Moore did a nice job. Daniel Craig makes a pretty decent Bond.  Pierce Brosnan just did not make the cut imho. Dalton was decent but just was not there.

You Only Live Twice has always been special to me. Bond 'dying' in the first five minutes just blew my 8 year old mind lol. The theme song by John Barry was fantastic as well. Miss Sean Connery he seems to be retired from film and living the good life as he should!

[BigWhiskey91 632]

23 hours ago, McLoofus said:

They did hold their own. They didn't let MSU in the end zone until the last play of the 1st half, and even that was after Ryan Davis gifted them the ball on our side of the field immediately after our defense had forced yet another 3-and-out. And even on that touchdown, the ball didn't actually cross the goal line.

And, despite the offense not making any adjustments or playing any better at all in the 2nd half, the defense still didn't allow another (actual) touchdown until late in the 4th quarter, when they had been left out on the field entirely too long. 

And, once again, one has to wonder if Steele wasn't forced to continue to play ultra conservative to prevent the big play once he knew our offense couldn't score. 

The defense didn't play their best. The offense lost the game. 

I’ll have to go back and watch the game, but passed on the drive summaries on ESPN, there were only 2 drives we held MSU to a 3 and out on. 

 

The offense statistically performed much much better in the second half as they didn’t go three and out and nearly tripled the yard production from first half to second half. The problem was Boobies fumble going into the end zone. We like to play what if’s with the first half defensive stand, but if Boobie doesn’t fumble, our first three possessions in the second half are all three scoring drives that produced 177yds of offense. 

To start the second half off, the defense allowed a 13 play, 60yd drive which are up 8 minutes and put 3 points on the board. 

The game was an absolute team failure. Missed Fg and fumbled punt return allowed MSU a short field twice in the first half which gifted them 10 points. The offense missed out on a deep ball to a wide open Slayton in the first half which was a 7 point miss. Then you have the defense getting gouged in the second half and boobies fumble going into the end zone. Essentially everything that could go wrong went wrong. I don’t think the defense derserves to be the absolute blame, but Miss State made no secrets about what they were going to do in the second half. They ran it down our throats and we couldn’t stop it.

[McLoofus 35,182]

40 minutes ago, BigWhiskey91 said:

I’ll have to go back and watch the game, but passed on the drive summaries on ESPN, there were only 2 drives we held MSU to a 3 and out on. 

The offense statistically performed much much better in the second half as they didn’t go three and out and nearly tripled the yard production from first half to second half. The problem was Boobies fumble going into the end zone. We like to play what if’s with the first half defensive stand, but if Boobie doesn’t fumble, our first three possessions in the second half are all three scoring drives that produced 177yds of offense. 

To start the second half off, the defense allowed a 13 play, 60yd drive which are up 8 minutes and put 3 points on the board. 

The game was an absolute team failure. Missed Fg and fumbled punt return allowed MSU a short field twice in the first half which gifted them 10 points. The offense missed out on a deep ball to a wide open Slayton in the first half which was a 7 point miss. Then you have the defense getting gouged in the second half and boobies fumble going into the end zone. Essentially everything that could go wrong went wrong. I don’t think the defense derserves to be the absolute blame, but Miss State made no secrets about what they were going to do in the second half. They ran it down our throats and we couldn’t stop it.

Except we kept them out of the end zone until 6 minutes left in a game where our offense was only on the field for 18 minutes of possession in a 60 minute game. (Really starting to wonder how many of folks advocating for blame of the defense have played sports before, much less football.)

As for the 3 and outs, yes, there were only 2. There was also an interception. There were also an MSU possession of 7 plays and 28 yards. And another of 6 plays and 38 yards where we forced a turnover on downs.

Auburn's responses to these defensive stands:
-3 plays, -3 yards, 0:57 of possession, punt
-4 plays, 9 yards, 1:13 of possession, field goal
-Muffed point, no yards, no possession, defense forced back on the field immediately after a 4+ minute stand during which they only surrendered 28 yards.
-6 plays, 70 yards, 2:19 of possession, fumble
-10 plays, 52 yards, 2:22 of possession, field goal

We had 1 possession the entire game that lasted longer than 2:22. It resulted in a missed field goal from 50+ yards. No, you don't blame the freshman kicker for missing one from 50+ in cowbell land. You absolutely, however, blame the wide receiver who muffed the punt. The offense lost the game. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

Btw, the OL was bad last year. They went from really bad to kinda bad. Maybe they'll be good this year. 

[abw0004 10,113]

1 hour ago, McLoofus said:

Btw, the OL was bad last year. They went from really bad to kinda bad. Maybe they'll be good this year. 

Not sure why you won't drop this my friend.  

[aujeff11 6,243]

1 hour ago, McLoofus said:

Except we kept them out of the end zone until 6 minutes left in a game where our offense was only on the field for 18 minutes of possession in a 60 minute game. (Really starting to wonder how many of folks advocating for blame of the defense have played sports before, much less football.)

As for the 3 and outs, yes, there were only 2. There was also an interception. There were also an MSU possession of 7 plays and 28 yards. And another of 6 plays and 38 yards where we forced a turnover on downs.

Auburn's responses to these defensive stands:
-3 plays, -3 yards, 0:57 of possession, punt
-4 plays, 9 yards, 1:13 of possession, field goal
-Muffed point, no yards, no possession, defense forced back on the field immediately after a 4+ minute stand during which they only surrendered 28 yards.
-6 plays, 70 yards, 2:19 of possession, fumble
-10 plays, 52 yards, 2:22 of possession, field goal

We had 1 possession the entire game that lasted longer than 2:22. It resulted in a missed field goal from 50+ yards. No, you don't blame the freshman kicker for missing one from 50+ in cowbell land. You absolutely, however, blame the wide receiver who muffed the punt. The offense lost the game. 

How are you still stuck on this after so long? 

The offense went up against a top two defense in the nation. 

Our defense went up against a pitiful, one dimensional MSU offense that was shut out of the end zone many games last year. Football experts have said the defensive unit didn’t play very well. Steele outright said they stunk.  It’s a team sport. What is your problem?

 

 

[KnightTiger 205]

if we can somehow make it past Oregon, A&M, State and end September  5-0 then we will be no less than a nine win team heading into Amen Corner

[BigWhiskey91 632]

On 6/28/2019 at 1:49 PM, McLoofus said:

Really starting to wonder how many of folks advocating for blame of the defense have played sports before, much less football..... The offense lost the game. 

No one is blaming the defense in isolation and no one should be blaming the offense in isolation. This 100% was a team loss through and through. It was very apparent that all three phases were not prepared. 

I’m not sure why you are so locked in on time of possession. This is not something that our offense is designed to maximize on and our defensive staff should know that. 

That being said, you use scoring to slant the table for your defense. Scoring with pace and frequency can/will alter how the opponent attacks your offense. Putting your defense in more predictable positions will allow them to react easier to defend plays more effectively. 

What happened against Mississippi State was the offense couldn’t score and missed out on its chances which puts more pressure on the defense. Miss State was able to maximize on their TOP which minimized the total offensive possessions we got. Not sure if you’ve ever looked at analytics related to possessions, but the results/trends from teams held to ~10 possessions offensively aren’t very good. 

[BigWhiskey91 632]

On 6/28/2019 at 3:03 PM, aujeff11 said:

How are you still stuck on this after so long? 

The offense went up against a top two defense in the nation. 

Our defense went up against a pitiful, one dimensional MSU offense that was shut out of the end zone many games last year. Football experts have said the defensive unit didn’t play very well. Steele outright said they stunk.  It’s a team sport. What is your problem?

 

 

The problem is our offense missed out on the opportunities it had. Missing Slayton wide open on a play action and Boobies fumble were huge. That’s 14 points left off the board alone. The missed fg hurt but the muffed punt was devastating. 

Total team loss. Defense couldn’t stop the run and the offense couldn’t get out of its own way. Not gonna win many games that way. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

So I've already said all I had to say on this, but I really have to point this out. A polite way to say it is that you answered your own question. A more honest way to look at it is that you're contradicting yourself pretty hard:

28 minutes ago, BigWhiskey91 said:

No one is blaming the defense in isolation and no one should be blaming the offense in isolation. This 100% was a team loss through and through. It was very apparent that all three phases were not prepared. 

I’m not sure why you are so locked in on time of possession. This is not something that our offense is designed to maximize on and our defensive staff should know that. 

That being said, you use scoring to slant the table for your defense. Scoring with pace and frequency can/will alter how the opponent attacks your offense. Putting your defense in more predictable positions will allow them to react easier to defend plays more effectively. 

What happened against Mississippi State was the offense couldn’t score and missed out on its chances which puts more pressure on the defense. Miss State was able to maximize on their TOP which minimized the total offensive possessions we got. Not sure if you’ve ever looked at analytics related to possessions, but the results/trends from teams held to ~10 possessions offensively aren’t very good. 

So the defense did a terrible job by surrendering TOP, but the offense didn't do anything wrong by not having any.

In fact, the defense's only major flaw was surrendering TOP, because they kept the other team out of the end zone until late in the game when they had already been on the field for over 2/3 of game time. But the offense doesn't deserve any more blame, even though they neither stayed on the field nor scored? That doesn't add up. 

One other thing, and this is where I have to honestly question your background in team sports:

32 minutes ago, BigWhiskey91 said:

This is not something that our offense is designed to maximize on and our defensive staff should know that. 

Yes, I'm sure Kevin Steele knew very well that our offense wasn't designed to maximize a damned thing at that time. That doesn't make it any more possible nor something any reasonable observer would expect for his defense to keep an opponent from scoring any points at all for 42 minutes.

And the muffed punt was indeed a massive mistake. As for field goals, 3-4 with the only miss being from 50+ is a good day at the office. 

[BigWhiskey91 632]

6 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

So I've already said all I had to say on this, but I really have to point this out. A polite way to say it is that you answered your own question. A more honest way to look at it is that you're contradicting yourself pretty hard:

So the defense did a terrible job by surrendering TOP, but the offense didn't do anything wrong by not having any.

In fact, the defense's only major flaw was surrendering TOP, because they kept the other team out of the end zone until late in the game when they had already been on the field for over 2/3 of game time. But the offense doesn't deserve any more blame, even though they neither stayed on the field nor scored? That doesn't add up. 

One other thing, and this is where I have to honestly question your background in team sports:

Yes, I'm sure Kevin Steele knew very well that our offense wasn't designed to maximize a damned thing at that time. That doesn't make it any more possible nor something any reasonable observer would expect for his defense to keep an opponent from scoring any points at all for 42 minutes.

And the muffed punt was indeed a massive mistake. As for field goals, 3-4 with the only miss being from 50+ is a good day at the office. 

1) It’s not a contradiction at all. You were referencing the offenses TOP in your argument and I was stating that TOP is not a stat the offense is built to prioritize. The defense not being able to get off the field and allowing over 300yds rushing was a problem. It limits the total number of possessions our offense gets. Don’t be dense.

2) The problem with the offense was not capitalizing on the opportunities that were there. Left 14 points off the board on two plays. That’s on the offense. 

3) Question my background all you want, I played soccer and coached as well. I understand pace, conditioning and strategy. Kevin Steele knows the offenses general game plan and is aware of the offenses proficiencies and difficiencies up to that point in the season. The defense was getting gashed by the run and Miss State only ran the ball more in the second half. Defense was never able to contain the run game and it got worse in the second half. 

4) 50+ yarders have been talked about all year. That is something we missed on far too often to continue attempting them. That did the defense no favors either.

Lastly, you seem to be hell bent on not allowing this to be a total team loss. No one is blaming the defense in isolation. That doesn’t change the fact that they share part of the blame. No one is sitting here saying the offense doesn’t deserve blame either.  The entire team sucked that day. No one played a consistent 60 minutes of football and any flashes of hope were smashed by either a turnover or another Mississippi state first down. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

6 minutes ago, BigWhiskey91 said:

1) It’s not a contradiction at all. You were referencing the offenses TOP in your argument and I was stating that TOP is not a stat the offense is built to prioritize. The defense not being able to get off the field and allowing over 300yds rushing was a problem. It limits the total number of possessions our offense gets. Don’t be dense.

Stating the same contradiction again doesn't cancel it out, unfortunately. Especially when you're stating that our offense is intentionally designed to put more pressure on our defense.

You can't say that dominating TOP was an advantage for MSU but that our offense's severe lack of TOP wasn't a factor. That is the contradiction.

8 minutes ago, BigWhiskey91 said:

2) The problem with the offense was not capitalizing on the opportunities that were there. Left 14 points off the board on two plays. That’s on the offense. 

Yes, that was one of the problems. 

11 minutes ago, BigWhiskey91 said:

3) Question my background all you want, I played soccer and coached as well. I understand pace, conditioning and strategy. Kevin Steele knows the offenses general game plan and is aware of the offenses proficiencies and difficiencies up to that point in the season. The defense was getting gashed by the run and Miss State only ran the ball more in the second half. Defense was never able to contain the run game and it got worse in the second half. 

If you understand conditioning, then you understand that a defense being on the field longer makes them more tired. (Although it is different in soccer and possession doesn't mean nearly as much, since everyone's on the field the entire time. I played both, not that it matters.) 

I mean, why do you think things got worse for our defense in the 2nd half? Maybe because they'd been on the field twice as much as the offense?

Also, there's no way that Steele knowing the offense sucks translates into him just magically making his defense impenetrable for 60 minutes. But I keep asking: isn't it possible that Steele did indeed know that his offense couldn't stay on the field or score, so he allowed them to run inside as opposed to giving up any big plays on the edge or downfield? Bend-don't-break is hardly a new or rare concept, even at Auburn in just the last 10 years. I mean, they didn't surrender a touchdown drive until there was only 6 minutes left in the game. Which, again, happened because our offense was a total and complete failure and our defense was gassed. 

40 minutes ago, BigWhiskey91 said:

4) 50+ yarders have been talked about all year. That is something we missed on far too often to continue attempting them. That did the defense no favors either.

Yup. Carlson attempted nine 50 yard field goals last year. Hard to find any other kicker who tried more than five. Again, our offensive-minded head coach making major mistakes (in addition to an offense that couldn't even get to the red zone, much less score) and putting unnecessary pressure on our defense. @mcgufcm called that out in real time, even before the MSU game IIRC. 

45 minutes ago, BigWhiskey91 said:

Lastly, you seem to be hell bent on not allowing this to be a total team loss. No one is blaming the defense in isolation. That doesn’t change the fact that they share part of the blame.

They do deserve some blame, albeit significantly less than the offense. I have said this all along. 

46 minutes ago, BigWhiskey91 said:

The entire team sucked that day. 

Incorrect. We were 3/4 on field goals, only missing once from long distance. Siposs's 3 punts all went for 44+ and there were no returns. Every kickoff resulted in a touchback. Special teams made one mistake when our best WR muffed the punt. The defense was outstanding in the first half. Despite being on the field for 21:11 of a possible 30 minutes, they surrendered less than 200 yards of offense and only 6 points until the debatable touchdown right before the half. 

The defense had as much to do with us losing this game as they had to do with us beating Missouri in the 2013 SECCG. 

 

 

[BigWhiskey91 632]

17 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

You can't say that dominating TOP was an advantage for MSU but that our offense's severe lack of TOP wasn't a factor. That is the contradiction..

 

 

Auburn’s offense by design is not one that prioritizes TOP. Mississippi State made a concerted effort to maintain possession by maximizing time on the play clock. I am disagreeing with your remarks because Malzahns offense relies on simplicity to maintain pace and explosiveness. Making adjustments to ‘save the defense’ by prioritizing TOP would make our offense even worse. The only time I’ve seen us be largely successful while maximizing TOP was one series against UGA in 2017 when we used the sugar huddle exclusively. We drove the field but had to settle for a FG due to a fumbled center/qb exchange.

Another issue we need to consider is that State held the ball for the last 8:30 of the first half and the first 8:05 of the second half. This reduces the available possessions for our offense and forces urgency due to the score deficit. It goes both ways.

Also, if we want to list different game examples, check the bowl game. Purdue has almost twice the TOP in the first half that we did. We had just under 11min to their just over 19 min. Defense had to survive 8 possessions and 48 plays in the first half. Auburn’s average possession last just 1:30 seconds in the first half. 5 of our 7 possessions lasts 63 seconds or less. 

Convert the two big plays for TDs and erase the fumbled punt, we’re talking about a much closer game even with the deficiency in the run game. It’s possible that if the game was closer, State would’ve needed to go back to pass more which was clearly a weak spot for them in that game. 

[DAG 33,983]

Great debate guys!

[steeleagle 2,945]

14 minutes ago, DAG said:

Great debate guys!

And no one is right, and no one is wrong! Stalemate!! 

[DAG 33,983]

5 minutes ago, steeleagle said:

And no one is right, and no one is wrong! Stalemate!! 

Yep I am finding myself seeing pros in both 

[BigWhiskey91 632]

4 minutes ago, DAG said:

Yep I am finding myself seeing pros in both 

Which likely means it’s a difference of perspective. I don’t want to make anyone think that I thought the defense was the only person to blame. The offense was poor and the few positive drives we had resulted in a missed FG, missed TD to Slayton and a Boobies would be TD turned fumble. 

The muffed punt not only gave MSU a short field, but it sent the defense right back on the field. State maintained the ball 8minutes to close the first half and 8 minutes to start the first half. Both resulting in 10 points and an entire quarter (16 minutes) that Auburn’s offense could not possess the ball. Cannot blame the offense for that. It’s like the 2006 Auburn vs South Carolina game where we possessed the ball the entire third quarter and got 10 points out of those two drives. 

The offense actually played much better in the second half but it was too little too late. Only have 10 total possessions is killer for our offense. IIRC, StatTiger said that we historically average like 6ppg when held to 10 possessions or less. I’ll have to double check that with him when I get home.

[DAG 33,983]

2 minutes ago, BigWhiskey91 said:

Which likely means it’s a difference of perspective. I don’t want to make anyone think that I thought the defense was the only person to blame. The offense was poor and the few positive drives we had resulted in a missed FG, missed TD to Slayton and a Boobies would be TD turned fumble. 

The muffed punt not only gave MSU a short field, but it sent the defense right back on the field. State maintained the ball 8minutes to close the first half and 8 minutes to start the first half. Both resulting in 10 points and an entire quarter (16 minutes) that Auburn’s offense could not possess the ball. Cannot blame the offense for that. It’s like the 2006 Auburn vs South Carolina game where we possessed the ball the entire third quarter and got 10 points out of those two drives. 

The offense actually played much better in the second half but it was too little too late. Only have 10 total possessions is killer for our offense. IIRC, StatTiger said that we historically average like 6ppg when held to 10 possessions or less. I’ll have to double check that with him when I get home.

I tend to lean towards team defeat but both you guys did a great job of seeing the other side of things as well with info 

[BigWhiskey91 632]

17 minutes ago, DAG said:

I tend to lean towards team defeat but both you guys did a great job of seeing the other side of things as well with info 

It’s always fun to have debates that don’t resort to name calling or anything like that. 

I love Steele. I hate that things get turned into a Malzahn vs Steele conversation some times. 

Im stoked for 2019 as we got veteran linemen in the trenches and return a lot of impact plays on the offensive side of the ball. I honestly wouldn’t be surprised to see us field a very explosive offense this year. All comes down to consistency and injury luck. Still picking us to beat the brakes off Oregon and possibly a loss to A&M early. Hope we’re firing on all 8 cylinders cause I just bought tickets to see in in Gainesville (wifes a Florida fan).