The Case Against Populism

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

Good opinion piece that largely sums up where I am as well.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/27/opinion/bernie-sanders.html

[alexava 6,973]

Me too. I supported him last time. I must have changed because I don’t think he has. But now he actually scares me. The article was correct in saying he has no gray areas. We need gray To get anything accomplished. Plus, I still don’t think he can beat trump. 

[homersapien 11,453]

We should pay more attention to the Democrats who pay attention to reality

COMING OFF one of the least-edifying debates of the campaign season, Sen. Amy Klobuchar (D-Minn.) agreed in an interview Friday that the format has not tended to promote voter understanding of the candidates’ positions. “It’s been really hard for the candidates who are not Bernie Sanders to express their policies and their ideas,” she said. The pattern: Mr. Sanders promises unlimited free stuff to everyone; other candidates propose smarter, more targeted approaches — and then get slammed for lack of boldness. Making their case has been even harder for the pragmatic and straight-talking candidates in the race because two billionaires — Mike Bloomberg and Tom Steyer — have saturated the airwaves with incessant television advertising.

In reality, Ms. Klobuchar’s agenda — like those of former vice president Joe Biden and former South Bend, Ind., mayor Pete Buttigieg — would be pathbreaking. Ms. Klobuchar wants to crack down on pharmaceutical companies, introduce a generous public health-care plan, scale up college affordability, invest in vocational training, pour money into infrastructure, enact public campaign financing and press states to shorten prison sentences. Tackling climate change by getting the country to net-zero greenhouse gas emissions by 2050 would be her “number-one priority.”

So Ms. Klobuchar and others in her lane set ambitious goals. But they do not entertain the fantasy, sold by Mr. Sanders and, to a lesser degree, Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.), that bold change can be achieved with few-to-no hard choices or little care for the risks. On climate change, for example, Ms. Klobuchar wants to tax greenhouse gas emissions, among other proposals. A price on carbon would spur the transition to clean energy far more efficiently than having politicians arrogantly take it upon themselves to design a green economy in minute detail from Washington. She would help poor and middle-class children go to college but let the wealthy pay tuition. She recognizes limits on how much debt the government can take on.

Like Mr. Biden and Mr. Buttigieg, Ms. Klobuchar understands that change can come only through the hard work of coalition-building. “Being willing to reach out,” she said, “should not be viewed as a negative in the Democratic primary.” She noted that Mr. Sanders refused to support compromise immigration legislation during the George W. Bush years. “That was one moment of leadership: Were you willing to work with the Bush administration on a path to citizenship?” she said.

She also argued that, with President Trump on the ballot, inclusive governing is good politics. People outside the left wing want to restore decency to the White House, and Democrats should appeal to them.

In a more rational presidential selection system, these ideas and arguments would get more of a hearing. Holding primaries, not caucuses, would make less likely the designation of a front-runner based on minuscule total numbers of votes. Public matching funds would give qualified candidates a fairer chance to compete against plutocrats. Debates would elevate substance over angry cross talk. But even without such reforms, it’s not too late for voters in the coming primaries to fairly examine the records and platforms of the candidates.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/we-should-pay-more-attention-to-the-democrats-who-pay-attention-to-reality/2020/02/28/8864bd86-5a6f-11ea-9b35-def5a027d470_story.html

[homersapien 11,453]

BTW, thanks for the link Brad. I really like David Brooks - a true conservative voice.

He's right. The answer to Trump populism is not Sanders populism.

[channonc 466]

I fear Sanders as a nominee. His supporters act like the left version of the Trump supporters. If you disagree with Sanders, then you must be part of some "establishment" conspiracy theory to hold them down.

Frankly, I want us to come back to two parties (or more) who are level headed, present thought through ideas and actually negotiate with each other to move America forward. Even if Sanders is in the WH, he won't be willing to negotiate or take ideas from others. We will be stuck in the same vitriolic atmosphere with nothing actually getting done to solve our problems. 

And note, Sanders will not join the Democratic party. That alone should disqualify him from being the party's nominee.

[alexava 6,973]

7 minutes ago, channonc said:

I fear Sanders as a nominee. His supporters act like the left version of the Trump supporters. If you disagree with Sanders, then you must be part of some "establishment" conspiracy theory to hold them down.

Frankly, I want us to come back to two parties (or more) who are level headed, present thought through ideas and actually negotiate with each other to move America forward. Even if Sanders is in the WH, he won't be willing to negotiate or take ideas from others. We will be stuck in the same vitriolic atmosphere with nothing actually getting done to solve our problems. 

And note, Sanders will not join the Democratic party. That alone should disqualify him from being the party's nominee.

I agree.  We need middle ground. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

40 minutes ago, channonc said:

Even if Sanders is in the WH, he won't be willing to negotiate or take ideas from others.

This is why I ended up voting for a different candidate in the SC primary. I voted for somebody who I think shares a lot of Bernie's ideas but who might actually be able to implement some of them, even if they require compromise, because that is what it would take. 

If Bernie could load Congress up with a hundred more like himself, it would be different. But I fear an old man yelling at everybody- no matter how correct he may be- and doing nothing to bridge the divide. 

[Grumps 3,704]

1 hour ago, alexava said:

I agree.  We need middle ground. 

I think that MANY voters on both sides want middle ground. It sure seems intentional that we never end up with any middle ground candidates.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

4 minutes ago, Grumps said:

I think that MANY voters on both sides want middle ground. It sure seems intentional that we never end up with any middle ground candidates.

It's not intentional. Was listening to an analyst the other day and he laid it out well.

The extremes of each party are much more highly motivated to vote during primaries.  Far right and far left voters make up about 30% of the overall vote total.  However, they vote in twice the numbers as more moderate voters during primary season, meaning their voice is disproportionately represented.

If every person that voted in a general election also voted in the primary, you would see a lot more middle ground style candidates because they would have to appeal to wider base just to get the nomination.

[Grumps 3,704]

18 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

It's not intentional. Was listening to an analyst the other day and he laid it out well.

The extremes of each party are much more highly motivated to vote during primaries.  Far right and far left voters make up about 30% of the overall vote total.  However, they vote in twice the numbers as more moderate voters during primary season, meaning their voice is disproportionately represented.

If every person that voted in a general election also voted in the primary, you would see a lot more middle ground style candidates because they would have to appeal to wider base just to get the nomination.

Thanks for the explanation. That makes sense!

I admire Buttigieg and Klobuchar for opening up the "middle" for Biden. It seems like an attempt to help their party. I just wish that, instead, Biden had opened up the middle for one of them!

I voted in the democratic primary today (largely because of a judge I wanted to support). I voted for Gabbard. If she had not been on the ballot I might could have made myself vote for Bloomberg, but I doubt it. There is no way I could vote for Sanders or Biden or Warren. I expect to vote for a write-in candidate in November like I wish I had done in the last presidential election.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

20 minutes ago, Grumps said:

Thanks for the explanation. That makes sense!

I admire Buttigieg and Klobuchar for opening up the "middle" for Biden. It seems like an attempt to help their party. I just wish that, instead, Biden had opened up the middle for one of them!

I voted in the democratic primary today (largely because of a judge I wanted to support). I voted for Gabbard. If she had not been on the ballot I might could have made myself vote for Bloomberg, but I doubt it. There is no way I could vote for Sanders or Biden or Warren. I expect to vote for a write-in candidate in November like I wish I had done in the last presidential election.

Oh trust me, I would have rather voted for Klobuchar or Buttigieg today.  But given who's left and considering where I live (Texas), a vote for Biden goes a long way towards stopping a Bernie nomination.  At least with Biden, I know what I'm getting.  He doesn't excite me, but we will get decency back in the White House and someone who genuinely wants to work across the aisle.

If it's Sanders vs Trump in November, I'm voting down ballot races only and will sit out the POTUS election.

[alexava 6,973]

2 hours ago, Grumps said:

I think that MANY voters on both sides want middle ground. It sure seems intentional that we never end up with any middle ground candidates.

We have a good Senator in Alabama right now running for re-election. I wish republicans would weigh out his work across the aisle vs the ridiculous campaigns of the republicans wanting to replace him by burying their heads up trumps anal cavity. 
 

we had a great choice for governor too. The letter D next to his name didn’t let him win. 
 

We have had good choices in Alabama. We don’t always take advantage of them.