Please say it ain't so.

[wdefromtx 3,159]

13 minutes ago, Grumps said:

Really?

From Merriam-Webster.com: 

Definition of disinfectant

: an agent that frees from infection

Definition of antibiotic

: a substance able to inhibit or kill microorganisms

According to Merriam-Webster that means that Penicillin, an agent that frees from infection, and is frequently injected into a person's veins, is a disinfectant. Penicillin is also an antibiotic, don't you agree?

It was still not very smart of Trump to ask the physicians to look into using disinfectants to kill the virus, but if you are going to be nit-picking then go full-bore picky, right?

Exactly!!! Go all in on nit-picking words!!! 

[wdefromtx 3,159]

Just now, Grumps said:

It seems so simple doesn't it? Trump said something seemingly stupid to the physicians at the briefing. The media then drastically embellished what Trump said. Trump should quit saying stupid stuff and the media should quit making stuff up. There!

Couldn't have said it better myself!!!

But we are considered Trumpers or right wingers for trying to be sensible!! LOL 

[homersapien 11,373]

1 hour ago, wdefromtx said:

You did say they should not have said bleach and that’s what is important. Because that’s my point.

Sigh.

Yes "they" - whoever "they" was - should not have used the word "bleach", at least if they were reporting.  In that case, "they" should have used the exact word Trump used which is disinfectant.  (If it was used rhetorically, it's not as big of a deal.)

Regardless, I have explained how use of bleach in no way contradicts or excuses what Trump did.  And it in no way changes what he said, as you tried to imply earlier accusing him of injecting "UV light" was OK but he didn't say inject bleach / disinfectants.

Salty implied the same thing when he said the media should have said "inject UV light (only).  Leaving out the word disinfectant would be deceptive -  far worse than using the word "bleach" instead of disinfectant (which bleach is). 

I conceded that they shouldn’t have said UV disinfectant on the basis that they shouldn’t have said bleach as well.

I don't understand the logic of that.  At all.

 

Otherwise in each situation they were making an assumption, but I still stand that the logical assumption when you look at everything he said (or technically meaning to say) was UV disinfectant and not bleach.

Once again, TRUMP DID SAY DISINFECTANT.

Bleach is a disinfectant.  While some media sources should have used the word disinfectant instead of bleach, one cannot logically dismiss the word "disenfectant" from Trump's proposal simply because a few media outlets used the word bleach.

Now I am starting to think you are both confused and cognitively challenged on this.

 

 

[McLoofus 35,182]

2 minutes ago, Grumps said:

It seems so simple doesn't it? Trump said something seemingly stupid to the physicians at the briefing. The media then drastically embellished what Trump said. Trump should quit saying stupid stuff and the media should quit making stuff up. There!

No, they didn't. 

[homersapien 11,373]

14 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

He SAID "disinfectant" - I will grant you he didn't say Lysol, he didn't say Clorox (bleach) and he didn't specifically mention any other of the various chemicals than can be used as chemical disinfectants .  He said disinfectant and UV light, which is not a chemical disinfectant so doesn't play a role in this discussion.  (Although you never responded to my hypothetical question of how one would inject UV light, which you apparently think both Bryan and Trump suggested.)

That is false, it not being a chemical is irrelevant. 

 

And to the injection usage, I was trying to point out that trump was trying to use it in the same way. But what I am trying to say is easier to say in person. But all of that is irrelevant to the fact that he wasn't talking about a chemical. And if you go back Ironman70 supplied you with several links and information of how one can "inject" or insert UV light into the body. Via tube or via laparoscopic insertion somewhere. 

This discussion is about bleach vs disinfectant. UV light is not in the same category nor is it part of this dispute. 

But if you care to explain how UV light is important to the discussion, have at it. 

Please.

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 hour ago, wdefromtx said:

You bob and weave like a politician or a lawyer....lmao.

Dude, you're the one who swore up and down that he was making an analogy and have since changed your mind about what he meant about a dozen times.

Feel free to say you hate the media all you want but you chose the wrong hill to die on. 

[wdefromtx 3,159]

2 minutes ago, homersapien said:

This discussion is about bleach vs disinfectant. UV light is not in the same category nor is it part of this dispute. 

But if you care to explain how UV light is important to the discussion, have at it. 

Please.

Because UV light is used as a disinfectant!!! And that is what they were talking about!!! LMAO 

[SaltyTiger 7,798]

16 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Salty implied the same thing when he said the media should have said "inject UV light (only).  Leaving out the word disinfectant would be deceptive -  far worse than using the word "bleach" instead of disinfectant (which bleach is). 

No Brother Homer. I said "UV disinfectant".

[homersapien 11,373]

57 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

And to the injection usage, I was trying to point out that trump was trying to use it in the same way. But what I am trying to say is easier to say in person. But all of that is irrelevant to the fact that he wasn't talking about a chemical.

In the same way as Bryan used it in his presentation?  And how is that?

Are you now saying Trump didn't intend to imply introducing disinfectants and UV light into the body?   That's BS.  Go back and read the transcript.

Or are you saying Trump used it like Bryan did, in the context to introducing additional variable or effects to a base response. 

Or are you saying Brian actually meant injecting  the variables he was discussion - sunlight, summer heat, humidity, etc. into the human body?

One thing you've gotten right, you absolutely cannot express yourself in writing.  But that's a clear indicator your reasoning is not rational. 

 

And if you go back Ironman70 supplied you with several links and information of how one can "inject" or insert UV light into the body. Via tube or via laparoscopic insertion somewhere. 

Again, Trump also said disinfectant IN ADDITION TO UV so it is clear he was talking about chemical disinfectants in addition to UV.

As for Ironman's laparoscopic insertion of UV into the body, how's that gonna work against billions of sub-microscopic particles spread throughout the body???  (I doubt that Trump even knows that UV is part of the electromagnetic spectrum.)

Laparoscopy might be used in such a way to cure an adhesive with UV in surgery (for example), but it's not relevant to anti-viral treatment. That's why I ignored it.

[wdefromtx 3,159]

4 minutes ago, homersapien said:

In the same way as Brian used it in his presentation?  And how is that?

Are you now saying Trump didn't intend to imply introducing disinfectants and UV light into the body?   That's BS.  Go back and read the transcript.

Or are you saying Trump used it like Bryan did, in the context to introducing additional variable or effects to a base response. 

Or are you saying Brian actually meant injecting  the variables he was discussion - sunlight, summer heat, humidity, etc. into the human body?

One thing you've gotten right, you absolutely cannot express yourself in writing.  But that's a clear indicator you reasoning is not rational. 

 

And if you go back Ironman70 supplied you with several links and information of how one can "inject" or insert UV light into the body. Via tube or via laparoscopic insertion somewhere. 

Again, Trump also said disinfectant IN ADDITION TO UV so it is clear he was talking about chemical disinfectants in addition to UV.

As for Ironman's laparoscopic insertion of UV into the body, how's that gonna work against billions of sub-microscopic particles spread throughout the body???  (I doubt that Trump even knows that UV is part of the electromagnetic spectrum.)

Laparoscopy might be used in such a way to cure an adhesive in surgery (for example), but it's not relevant to anti-viral treatment. That's why I ignored it.

I was trying to say Trump was using words and talking about things he doesn't know about. 

 

Again, Trump also said disinfectant IN ADDITION TO UV so it is clear he was talking about chemical disinfectants in addition to UV.

 

UV light is used as a disinfectant  therefore in our situation UV = disinfectant. Not sure why you can't understand that. 

[homersapien 11,373]

26 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Because UV light is used as a disinfectant!!! And that is what they were talking about!!! LMAO 

He said disinfectant as well as UV light, thus he meant both.

Still waiting on your explanation of how one injects the body with heat, humidity, the sun, summer into the body - as you apparently believe Bryan was talking about.

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 minute ago, wdefromtx said:

I was trying to say Trump was using words and talking about things he doesn't know about. 

Which is exactly what the media has reported.

5 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

UV light is used as a disinfectant  therefore in our situation UV = disinfectant. Not sure why you can't understand that.

It was quite clear that his comments on UV light and his comments on injecting a disinfectant were completely separate. After his comments about UV light, he goes on to say, "And then I see the disinfectant.." He even describes the delivery of the two different treatments in explicitly different terms. 

You should really stop with the passive aggressive insults about the intelligence of others. You've struggled mightily with your comprehension and consistency with regards to the what happened, how it's been reported and how it's been discussed here. 

[wdefromtx 3,159]

4 minutes ago, homersapien said:

He said disinfectant as well as UV light, thus he meant both.

Still waiting on your explanation of how one injects the body with heat, humidity, the sun, summer into the body - as you apparently believe Bryan was talking about.

I already explained what I meant by that. 

[homersapien 11,373]

21 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

I was trying to say Trump was using words and talking about things he doesn't know about. 

 

Again, Trump also said disinfectant IN ADDITION TO UV so it is clear he was talking about chemical disinfectants in addition to UV.

 

UV light is used as a disinfectant  therefore in our situation UV = disinfectant. (That doesn't mean Trump didn't also refer chemical disinfectants, he did.) 

Not sure why you can't understand that.*

First, it's not "our situation", it's your situation. No one else in the country has any doubt about what Trump said and meant, not even Trump.

You are making a ridiculously convoluted and pedantic argument trying to demonstrate that Trump didn't say what he clearly did.  In fact, Trump himself hasn't made such a crazy argument in his defense.  Apparently even he knows it wouldn't fly.

In your attempt, you have made absurd assertions - like insisting Bryan was using injection in the same context as Trump.

I have wasted enough of my time on you. You are hopeless.

* (And I have undoubtedly forgotten more about chemistry, disinfectants and microbiology that you have ever known.   You are totally out of your depth.)

 

[wdefromtx 3,159]

1 minute ago, McLoofus said:

Which is exactly what the media has reported.

It was quite clear that his comments on UV light and his comments on injecting a disinfectant were completely separate. After his comments about UV light, he goes on to say, "And then I see the disinfectant.." He even describes the delivery of the two different treatments in explicitly different terms. 

You should really stop with the passive aggressive insults about the intelligence of others. You've struggled mightily with your comprehension and consistency with regards to the what happened, how it's been reported and how it's been discussed here. 

Agree to disagree.

It all goes back to one of the things I mentioned....bias. It is going to determine how one interprets the intention of what he meant. Any passive aggressive insults were unintentional and not any worse that any that were slung at me. I assume it is just part of trying to explain via text. Back and forth convo's like this are easier in person to me. 

 

[wdefromtx 3,159]

2 minutes ago, homersapien said:

First, it's not "our situation", it's your situation. No one else in the country has any doubt about what Trump said and meant, not even Trump.

You are making a ridiculously convoluted and pedantic argument trying to demonstrate that Trump didn't say what he clearly did.  In fact, Trump himself hasn't made such a crazy argument.

In the attempt you have made absurd assertions - like insisting Bryan was using injection in the same context as Trump.

I have wasted enough of my time on you. You are hopeless.

 

No....Trump was trying to sound like Bryan and used the word Bryan did in that context and tried to apply it on how they were looking into using the UV light as a disinfectant inside the body (which is being researched, but yeah I am sure Trump isn't smart enough to understand the details.) Bottom line is he tried to sound smart. 

 

Yeah I guess I am hopeless, I am not ever going to think he meant to inject a chemical into our body unless that chemical is an antibody that can "disinfect" to rid it of the virus. If you think he really meant something like bleach then you go right ahead. 

[homersapien 11,373]

1 minute ago, wdefromtx said:

No....Trump was trying to sound like Bryan and used the word Bryan did in that context and tried to apply it on how they were looking into using the UV light as a disinfectant inside the body (which is being researched, but yeah I am sure Trump isn't smart enough to understand the details.) Bottom line is he tried to sound smart. 

 

Yeah I guess I am hopeless, I am not ever going to think he meant to inject a chemical into our body unless that chemical is an antibody that can "disinfect" to rid it of the virus. If you think he really meant something like bleach then you go right ahead. 

So how exactly was Bryan using it?

I keep asking but you won't confirm your understanding of Bryan's use of the word injection.

Was he using it like I said he was, or was he literally talking about injecting the variables he discussed into the human body?

Heck, I'll make it a multiple choice, if that helps.  How was he using the word injecting:

1. Rhetorically, as another way of saying "adding" in the effects of a new variable to an existing base of  data, i.e: "injecting" the effect of sunlight increases mortality.... (for example).
2. Describing a medical procedure in which the variables at issue are literally introduced into the body by injecting them

 

[homersapien 11,373]

11 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

No....Trump was trying to sound like Bryan and used the word Bryan did in that context and tried to apply it on how they were looking into using the UV light as a disinfectant inside the body (which is being researched, but yeah I am sure Trump isn't smart enough to understand the details.) Bottom line is he tried to sound smart. 

 

Yeah I guess I am hopeless, I am not ever going to think he meant to inject a chemical into our body unless that chemical is an antibody that can "disinfect" to rid it of the virus. If you think he really meant something like bleach then you go right ahead. 

I don't know how much he "meant" it but he absolutely proposed injecting something like bleach into the body to treat coronavirus.  He also proposed doing the same with UV light.

This is exactly why it caused such an uproar with the disinfectant industry as well as a few fools who take what comes out of his mouth seriously.

 

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-disinfectants-covid-19/

The comment in question came shortly after a presentation by William N. Bryan, the acting undersecretary for science and technology at the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, about how heat and humidity could impact the spread of COVID-19 during the summer months. Bryan mentioned a recent, non-peer-reviewed study that showed how disinfectants and sunlight could kill the coronavirus on non-porous surfaces such as counters or door handles. 

Bryan’s presentation focused on how light and disinfectants affected the coronavirus on surfaces. But when Trump took the podium, he started talking about what would happen if light and disinfectants were “brought inside the body” to fight the virus. 

Here’s the official White House transcript of Trump’s remarks (emphasis added):

THE PRESIDENT: Thank you very much. So I asked Bill a question that probably some of you are thinking of, if you’re totally into that world, which I find to be very interesting. So, supposing we hit the body with a tremendous — whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful light — and I think you said that that hasn’t been checked, but you’re going to test it. And then I said, supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way, and I think you said you’re going to test that too. It sounds interesting.

ACTING UNDER SECRETARY BRYAN: We’ll get to the right folks who could.

THE PRESIDENT: Right. And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning. Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. So it would be interesting to check that. So, that, you’re going to have to use medical doctors with. But it sounds — it sounds interesting to me.

So we’ll see. But the whole concept of the light, the way it kills it in one minute, that’s — that’s pretty powerful.

Trump made this comment following a presentation on how sunlight and disinfectant affect the coronavirus. This presentation prompted Trump to discuss a question he said “probably some of you are thinking of” concerning what would happen if you “brought the light inside the body.” As Trump continued, he also offered his thoughts on how disinfectants could be brought inside the body “by injection.” While Trump noted that this method would have to be checked by doctors, he said it sounded interesting to him. 

The remarks spurred widespread condemnation from health officials, who issued statements urging people not to inject or ingest cleaning products. 

Dr. Vin Gupta, a pulmonologist and global health policy expert and NBC News contributor, said:

“This notion of injecting or ingesting any type of cleansing product into the body is irresponsible, and it’s dangerous. It’s a common method that people utilize when they want to kill themselves.”

[wdefromtx 3,159]

19 minutes ago, homersapien said:

So how exactly was Bryan using it?

I keep asking but you won't confirm your understanding of Bryan's use of the word injection.

Was he using it like I said he was, or was he literally talking about injecting the variables he discussed into the human body?

Heck, I'll make it a multiple choice, if that helps.  How was he using the word injecting:

1. Rhetorically, as another way of saying "adding" in the effects of a new variable to an existing base of  data, i.e: "injecting" the effect of sunlight increases mortality.... (for example).
2. Describing a medical procedure in which the variables at issue are literally introduced into the body by injecting them

 

Bryan used version number 1. Trump heard Bryan but used it in the form of number 2 in his statement which were clearly his thinking out loud of seeing all the different disinfectants killing the virus and getting something inside the body (what you interpret that something is debatable but I have always have and maintain he was intending that to be finding a way to use UV light or some type of drug that kills it fast like the disinfectant on the surface.)

I took it as he wants a drug or process that could be UV light (UV light is a disinfectant but probably not applicable) that is something like a disinfectant (meaning rids of infection)  that kills the virus in a minute or less. 

[Grumps 3,704]

1 hour ago, McLoofus said:

No, they didn't. 

Either you think that Trump said/implied that people SHOULD use disinfectant/UV light to kill the virus OR you think that the media did NOT imply that Trump said it. It doesn't matter which of those two things you THINK happened, neither one is TRUE. So I guess we will just disagree, huh?

[homersapien 11,373]

34 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Bryan used version number 1. Trump heard Bryan but used it in the form of number 2 in his statement which were clearly his thinking out loud of seeing all the different disinfectants killing the virus and getting something inside the body (what you interpret that something is debatable but I have always have and maintain he was intending that to be finding a way to use UV light or some type of drug that kills it fast like the disinfectant on the surface.)

I took it as he wants a drug or process that could be UV light (UV light is a disinfectant but probably not applicable) that is something like a disinfectant (meaning rids of infection)  that kills the virus in a minute or less. 

Trump should have explained that, huh?

[homersapien 11,373]

6 minutes ago, Grumps said:

Either you think that Trump said/implied that people SHOULD use disinfectant/UV light to kill the virus OR you think that the media did NOT imply that Trump said it. It doesn't matter which of those two things you THINK happened, neither one is TRUE. So I guess we will just disagree, huh?

Most of the media I pay attention to simply reported what he said.

 

[ShocksMyBrain 9,364]

All this talking in circles is making my head spin. 

[wdefromtx 3,159]

4 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Trump should have explained that, huh?

You think?!!!! Instead he got mad and instead said he was being sarcastic. It is what it is, he acts like a toddler sometimes. 

[ShocksMyBrain 9,364]

2 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

You think?!!!! Instead he got mad and instead said he was being sarcastic. It is what it is, he acts like a toddler sometimes. 

“Sometimes”