Drew Brees Comments

[SocialCircle 570]

17 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Man you still miss the point!! I imagine it’s because you want to miss the point. I already said other organizations focus on other cancers. Why do you feel the need to bring up other causes when I say those get addressed, just not by this particular organization?  So yes it is a simple yes or no question. 

I don’t see much focus for example or near the outcry for the loss of innocent black life in many major cities unless it is a police doing the killing. So I disagree with you in that there is not near enough focus and time and effort spent on trying to stop that at all by any group. I hope this changes. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

It's a logical fallacy to suggest that current protests are taking away from existing efforts to deal with systemic racism. 

Some numbers:

Quote

Persons in poor households at or below the Federal Poverty Level (FPL) (39.8 per 1,000) had more than double the rate of violent victimization as persons in high-income households (16.9 per 1,000).

Persons in poor households had a higher rate of violence involving a firearm (3.5 per 1,000) compared to persons above the FPL (0.8-2.5 per 1,000).

The overall pattern of poor persons having the highest rates of violent victimization was consistent for both whites and blacks. However, the rate of violent victimization for Hispanics did not vary across poverty levels.

Poor Hispanics (25.3 per 1,000) had lower rates of violence compared to poor whites (46.4 per 1,000) and poor blacks (43.4 per 1,000).

Poor persons living in urban areas (43.9 per 1,000) had violent victimization rates similar to poor persons living in rural areas (38.8 per 1,000).

Poor urban blacks (51.3 per 1,000) had rates of violence similar to poor urban whites (56.4 per 1,000).

Unfortunately these numbers are older, but not outdated. We know that we're still having the same conversation now that we did then.

Not sure about everyone else, but two conclusions are clear to me. One, that isn't necessarily germane to this conversation, is that Hispanic immigrants aren't nearly the threat to our safety that xenophobic leaders would have us think. The other is that poverty leads to violent crime. I'd be surprised if I got any pushback on that.

So the next questions are how do we address poverty, and why does it disproportionately affect black Americans (20.8% to 8.1% of whites)?

This is where so many of these other issues such as investing in our public schools, redistricting, gerrymandering, health insurance, making it easier to vote, bail reform, etc come into play. Any of these sound familiar? We've been talking about them a LOT as long as I've paid attention to politics. I strongly reject this notion that people are protesting now "instead of" working on the things that will fix these problems. 

Oh, as for abortions, the answer remains the same. It's tied to income level.

If you really want to help end these things, then stop voting against measures to remove the barriers to financial security. Provide adequate education and healthcare to all Americans. 

[wdefromtx 3,159]

9 minutes ago, SocialCircle said:

I don’t see much focus for example or near the outcry for the loss of innocent black life in many major cities unless it is a police doing the killing. So I disagree with you in that there is not near enough focus and time and effort spent on trying to stop that at all by any group. I hope this changes. 

Then I suggest you form an organization that does what you want it to focus on and stop complaining or asking for an explanation as to why BLM focuses on what they do. I’ve provided you with the logic behind it and it’s valid because it’s the same logic as how different groups focus on certain cancers. It’s the exact same reasoning, meaning someone decided that that would be their cause to fight for and stuck to it. 

[SocialCircle 570]

28 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Then I suggest you form an organization that does what you want it to focus on and stop complaining or asking for an explanation as to why BLM focuses on what they do. I’ve provided you with the logic behind it and it’s valid because it’s the same logic as how different groups focus on certain cancers. It’s the exact same reasoning, meaning someone decided that that would be their cause to fight for and stuck to it. 

I'm not complaining.  I'm actually trying to help save more innocent black lives.  I also BTW deliver food to the needy weekly and help pay water and light bills monthly in my community for the needy. I do my part on the other 2 issues as well as they are both dear to my heart.  But thank you for the suggestions. God bless you! 

[Grumps 3,704]

3 hours ago, McLoofus said:

 

Hopefully it does affect them. It should definitely affect them in a positive and productive way if they are truly open to the message. If they get shook by this, then they're probably not actually open to much at all. 

I agree with you on this, but I like to look at it in a little bit different way. Using a football analogy, pretend that a person who learns to see each person he/she encounters as an equal who is worthy of love and respect represents crossing the goal line. It is crossing the goal line and scoring a touchdown that is sexy and gets all of the attention, but my job may be to get that person from their own 20 to mid-field. If that is the role that I am meant to play then I want to  perform it as if it is just as important as scoring. I am not willing to not try.

[SocialCircle 570]

30 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

It's a logical fallacy to suggest that current protests are taking away from existing efforts to deal with systemic racism. 

Some numbers:

Unfortunately these numbers are older, but not outdated. We know that we're still having the same conversation now that we did then.

Not sure about everyone else, but two conclusions are clear to me. One, that isn't necessarily germane to this conversation, is that Hispanic immigrants aren't nearly the threat to our safety that xenophobic leaders would have us think. The other is that poverty leads to violent crime. I'd be surprised if I got any pushback on that.

So the next questions are how do we address poverty, and why does it disproportionately affect black Americans (20.8% to 8.1% of whites)?

This is where so many of these other issues such as investing in our public schools, redistricting, gerrymandering, health insurance, making it easier to vote, bail reform, etc come into play. Any of these sound familiar? We've been talking about them a LOT as long as I've paid attention to politics. I strongly reject this notion that people are protesting now "instead of" working on the things that will fix these problems. 

Oh, as for abortions, the answer remains the same. It's tied to income level.

If you really want to help end these things, then stop voting against measures to remove the barriers to financial security. Provide adequate education and healthcare to all Americans. 

Are you for school choice?  Do you think the criminal justice reform recently accomplished was good?  Do you support opportunity zones?  

[McLoofus 35,182]

4 minutes ago, Grumps said:

I agree with you on this, but I like to look at it in a little bit different way. Using a football analogy, pretend that a person who learns to see each person he/she encounters as an equal who is worthy of love and respect represents crossing the goal line. It is crossing the goal line and scoring a touchdown that is sexy and gets all of the attention, but my job may be to get that person from their own 20 to mid-field. If that is the role that I am meant to play then I want to  perform it as if it is just as important as scoring. I am not willing to not try.

Thank you for trying. 

[Auburnfan91 1,407]

1 hour ago, McLoofus said:

What category do you think George Floyd would have fallen into if there hadn't been video? Honest question. 

I'm not attacking you because we only have the numbers we have and it's hard for those of us who haven't been in these situations to come to conclusions without different numbers. But I do believe that scenes of crimes and arrests are frequently doctored to suit the needs of various agencies affected by their outcomes. 

Thank you for pointing out in the first paragraph that the statistics don't include other forms of excessive violence. I think that's important. 

In the case of George Floyd, I do think the police officers would have tried to cover it up. Even with video and witnesses, the cop who had his knee on Floyd's neck didn't seem to care that what he was doing was being seen and recorded. So I have very little doubt that he would have tried to cover it up without video evidence.

But most police aren't like that. Of those 15 unarmed black people shot and killed in 2019, several of those cases either had body cam evidence or witnesses that corroborated the officer's account that resulted in the officers not being charged. So even the 15 number can actually be considered lower if you're taking into account that there was evidence/witnesses to justify some of those police shootings. Now in the cases where there wasn't body cam or witnesses then you can absolutely doubt the police's story or question their finding some type of weapon at the scene. Obviously without evidence or witnesses you can say there should have been more police officers criminally charged. But that's still doesn't add up to being open season or genocide being done by cops against black americans.

I'm not accusing you or saying you're doing it, but I wish those in the media and those with the loudest voices on this topic would actually look at the data that we have and not just dismiss anything that doesn't support their view. I wish we had more data for all types of force by police that result in death, not just for police shootings. But even the data we have for police shootings  doesn't support the exaggerated framing of the issue.

[Grumps 3,704]

3 hours ago, McLoofus said:

Sigh. That's an incredibly minute semantic difference. But fine. Kaep didn't suggest that he disagrees with standing for the anthem. He only said that he chooses not to stand. Brees did say that he disagrees with kneeling for it. He went beyond just saying that he chooses to stand. That is the difference. 

As for who decides what's meaningful, again, ask the black players in the league. They seem to have, for the most part, made it very clear how meaningful they thought it was that Brees joined in with something that everyone on the team was doing and for which there were no possible negative consequences. 

Again, I appreciate your explanations and I think we probably understand each others' positions fairly well. Black Lives Matter to me too.

But just to be sure that my overall point is clear :

Bashing Brees for not following the almost 3 year "tradition" of kneeling for the National Anthem is appropriate.

Bashing Kaepernick for not following the more than 50 year tradition of standing for the National Anthem is inappropriate.

I don't know how to agree with both statements.

Peace out!

[cole256 17,084]

2 hours ago, SocialCircle said:

Why do you constantly attack me personally and also call me names? I have dear friends and people I consider as family ( and they also consider me family) who are black. I don’t accept the personal insults and attacks and hope for an apology. God bless you!

I do not mean your head exploding literally....

[McLoofus 35,182]

8 minutes ago, Grumps said:

Bashing Brees for not following the almost 3 year "tradition" of kneeling for the National Anthem is appropriate.

Now I'm more confused than ever. Who has bashed Brees, or anyone for that matter, for not kneeling during the anthem?

Since when did this become a "tradition"? 

[SocialCircle 570]

4 hours ago, cole256 said:

Lol. I think you should look at your chart closer and I'd be interested in a more recent study. But if he saying no is all it takes for you talking to me then no

Their is a lag on this info being released by the FBI.  What I posted is the most recent data from the FBI. Here is incomplete info but the good news is crime overall is down per the FBI. 

https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2019-preliminary-semiannual-uniform-crime-report-released-012120

I hope you also look at the info from the Washington Post posted above.  In 2015 it says 258 black men were killed by the police with 38 of those being unarmed.  In the most recent complete year of the data is 2019.  The total number of blacks killed by police was 247 and the # of unarmed black men killed was 15.  2020 is looking like a much, much improved year even with the George Floyd murder as it shows 97 blacks killed by police and 6 were unarmed.  Like I said.....the actual numbers are improving.  

 

[SocialCircle 570]

3 minutes ago, cole256 said:

I do not mean your head exploding literally....

I didn't take it that way. Still very insulting as is calling me an idiot. 

[cole256 17,084]

2 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

Here ya go Cole:  Shannan Sharpe talking about Grandparents

And then there is Tony Dungy who’s father fought in WWII. 

By the way, Tony said he would forgive Drew.  I am jealous of Tony’s dad, he flew the P-51 out of Tuskegee, what a cool airplane.

Wow so you do that too huh? Ok it must be a prerequisite. On both the clips they are saying you know drew guess what your grand parents didn't win the war themselves. There were black people that fought in the war so after people have sat down and explained with you what they feel don't go on an interview and make it about you and your family.

Nobody cared on the principal that his grandfather fought in the war. If anything it was more ok. And? I have family that fought in the war too! NOBODY was like you know I wouldn't even care about his interview but then I found out his grandparents fought in the war and NOW I'm upset!

[cole256 17,084]

30 minutes ago, Auburnfan91 said:

In the case of George Floyd, I do think the police officers would have tried to cover it up. Even with video and witnesses, the cop who had his knee on Floyd's neck didn't seem to care that what he was doing was being seen and recorded. So I have very little doubt that he would have tried to cover it up without video evidence.

But most police aren't like that. Of those 15 unarmed black people shot and killed in 2019, several of those cases either had body cam evidence or witnesses that corroborated the officer's account that resulted in the officers not being charged. So even the 15 number can actually be considered lower if you're taking into account that there was evidence/witnesses to justify some of those police shootings. Now in the cases where there wasn't body cam or witnesses then you can absolutely doubt the police's story or question their finding some type of weapon at the scene. Obviously without evidence or witnesses you can say there should have been more police officers criminally charged. But that's still doesn't add up to being open season or genocide being done by cops against black americans.

I'm not accusing you or saying you're doing it, but I wish those in the media and those with the loudest voices on this topic would actually look at the data that we have and not just dismiss anything that doesn't support their view. I wish we had more data for all types of force by police that result in death, not just for police shootings. But even the data we have for police shootings  doesn't support the exaggerated framing of the issue.

I'll agree that I won't the majority is like that but I think you'd have to be crazy to think that EVERY SINGLE TIME something happens they are going to doctor it up to make it say that they were in the right. To me to try to use that to say it's not that big of a problem is just being naive and gullible. Eric garner death isn't included in that. They put in the paperwork that he was resisting arrest. The young lady in Fort worth had a weapon but she was scared protecting herself. All stats can be skewered

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

1 hour ago, SocialCircle said:

I don’t see much focus for example or near the outcry for the loss of innocent black life in many major cities unless it is a police doing the killing. So I disagree with you in that there is not near enough focus and time and effort spent on trying to stop that at all by any group. I hope this changes. 

You're conflating two completely different issues here.  The loss of Black lives in cities is a problem and needs to be addressed as well.  But those murders aren't being carried out by people of a publicly funded organization whose job entails keeping peace.

We all have the expectation that police are here to protect and serve.  For the Black community, that is too often not the case.

[cole256 17,084]

2 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

He is a leader and could do better than CK leading this movement.

You just don't like him....But many said the same EXACT things of the great leaders of the past

[cole256 17,084]

2 hours ago, The Freak said:

This thread is a good illustration as to why this country can not fix any problems.  No one listens.  No one can accept a different view point.  No one can try to walk a mile in someone else's shoes.

The thing that has ALWAYS been on this board is if you don't agree equates to you don't listen. But that's actually two different things.....also a person saying hey I have a black friend also doesn't equate to I listened to your point of view or I have walked in your shoes

[SocialCircle 570]

4 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

You're conflating two completely different issues here.  The loss of Black lives in cities is a problem and needs to be addressed as well.  But those murders aren't being carried out by people of a publicly funded organization whose job entails keeping peace.

We all have the expectation that police are here to protect and serve.  For the Black community, that is too often not the case.

That is a good point. Although I don't believe they are completely different issues as they do both result in the deaths of blacks, but point taken and thanks for sharing your thoughts. 

[cole256 17,084]

Just now, SocialCircle said:

That is a good point. Although I don't believe they are completely different issues as they do both result in the deaths of blacks, but point taken and thanks for sharing your thoughts. 

I've told you this 17 times at least two days ago...

[homersapien 11,388]

6 hours ago, aubiefifty said:

you think more whites are killed in america right? have you thought why? there are more whites in america. that means your statement is misleading. the question is if you are smart as you think you are why are you throwing stuff like this out here? if you mislead people about something so obvious does it mean you are lying? people are trying to find common ground and you are fighting them every step of the way.

He's like Trump.  Terms like "per capita" or "proportional"  are not understood - at least when it suits them.

[SocialCircle 570]

6 minutes ago, cole256 said:

I've told you this 17 times at least two days ago...

This is false.  I looked at all of the notifications I received from you yesterday and from the day before and you once never mentioned it.  Perhaps you have your days off?  If so, refer me to it. If you made the same point then it is a good point even though I see them as all related because I do believe in the value of all black lives. Now I did notice where you said there are 7 times more whites than blacks in this county which is  false.  

[SocialCircle 570]

5 minutes ago, homersapien said:

He's like Trump.  Terms like "per capita" or "proportional"  are not understood - at least when it suits them.

You have me confused with others.  I have said repeatedly blacks are killed by police at a proportionally higher rate than whites.  However, I have yet to have anyone acknowledge another fact.....blacks commit proportionally more violent crime in the US than do whites. Several are being very hypocritical on this issue.

[Grumps 3,704]

36 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Now I'm more confused than ever. Who has bashed Brees, or anyone for that matter, for not kneeling during the anthem?

Since when did this become a "tradition"? 

My apologies, I was looking ahead. I meant to say bashing Brees for personally disagreeing with kneeling during the anthem. I took his comment to mean that he would not do it. I also wonder what will happen at his next game if he does not kneel. Regarding "tradition" - Kneeling for the National Anthem has become "the way" to protest police brutality against blacks has it not? Now I'm confused too! I thought you said that Brees kneeling before the National Anthem with his teammates was meaningless because it wasn't during the National Anthem. Either way, I thank you for trying also!

[Grumps 3,704]