Drew Brees Comments

[cole256 17,084]

26 minutes ago, The Freak said:

Still being silly I see.  But you're right, you should be mad.  Mad as hell.  I agree.  I'm mad about it, too.  But how should/could you (we) actually effect some change?

Nah not silly at all but still the I'm above you all approach for whatever reason. As far as how I can effect change? I can't. I can't stop being black. Can't turn it off. Which goes back to my point of what you said about me. Only thing I've been on here saying or debating about is equality so you coming in and deeming me to be the reason about the problem in America is funny. If you're not on my "side" about that well....what can I say. 

 

You laugh but it's just like trump saying the very fine people on both sides...always being neutral may make you feel better but in reality just as bad if not worse

[cole256 17,084]

1 hour ago, SocialCircle said:

Like I said I do understand our justice system needs reform.  For example, the data shows a white man and a black man can be charged with the same crime and the odds are the black man will serve a longer sentence. It is hard to have a discussion when someone believes opportunity zones are made up. The FBI shows whites are arsonists as a much higher rate than blacks and I don't try to ignore it by saying the numbers are rigged.  I also do believe we can always do better as it relates to police brutality, but I can also see where the studies show it has gotten better in recent years despite the emotional and tragic killing of George Floyd.  It does often seem like it is a one way street. 

That's not what the data base from the Washington post that was posted on here said. It literally said blacks killed by the police was consistent and steady. Of course who knows what you are using to reference that police brutality has gotten better. All you have ever offered to support that is you said you've seen studies. Nobody knows what studies you are talking about.

I offer up the time it was uncovered how Dothan was been arresting and convicting black men falsely for the past 20 years. But those statistics count. I offered up even with Floyd it came back originally that he wasn't killed. That would affect statistics. I offer up in South Carolina where the cop shot the man running away in his back and he didn't see he was being recorded but his report he said the black man attacked him. The other man that was killed in the car in Minnesota they said they thought he was going for a weapon. So that's plenty of examples I'm showing to come to the conclusion that the very people who could be committing the crime are also the people who report the statistics used so that's why you can't just use these numbers as facts.

 

[SocialCircle 570]

11 minutes ago, cole256 said:

That's not what the data base from the Washington post that was posted on here said. It literally said blacks killed by the police was consistent and steady. Of course who knows what you are using to reference that police brutality has gotten better. All you have ever offered to support that is you said you've seen studies. Nobody knows what studies you are talking about.

I offer up the time it was uncovered how Dothan was been arresting and convicting black men falsely for the past 20 years. But those statistics count. I offered up even with Floyd it came back originally that he wasn't killed. That would affect statistics. I offer up in South Carolina where the cop shot the man running away in his back and he didn't see he was being recorded but his report he said the black man attacked him. The other man that was killed in the car in Minnesota they said they thought he was going for a weapon. So that's plenty of examples I'm showing to come to the conclusion that the very people who could be committing the crime are also the people who report the statistics used so that's why you can't just use these numbers as facts.

 

I thought we weren’t talking but I will respond. The last year and a half has been a very good improvement per the Wa Post: In 2015 it says 258 black men were killed by the police with 38 of those being unarmed.  In the most recent complete year of the data is 2019.  The total number of blacks killed by police was 247 and the # of unarmed black men killed was 15.  2020 is looking like a much, much improved year even with the George Floyd murder as it shows 97 blacks killed by police and 6 were unarmed.  Like I said.....the actual numbers are improving.  The thing about the Post is they investigated each one and they are left leaning. 

We have no idea if the Floyd murder would have been covered up or not. We agree it is likely. The good news is it is harder than ever to cover up stuff like this today with all of the cameras and videos via phone, etc...
 

Id be interested in the Dothan info. Please post a link. 

[Auburnfan91 1,407]

52 minutes ago, cole256 said:

That's not what the data base from the Washington post that was posted on here said. It literally said blacks killed by the police was consistent and steady. Of course who knows what you are using to reference that police brutality has gotten better. All you have ever offered to support that is you said you've seen studies. Nobody knows what studies you are talking about.

I offer up the time it was uncovered how Dothan was been arresting and convicting black men falsely for the past 20 years. But those statistics count. I offered up even with Floyd it came back originally that he wasn't killed. That would affect statistics. I offer up in South Carolina where the cop shot the man running away in his back and he didn't see he was being recorded but his report he said the black man attacked him. The other man that was killed in the car in Minnesota they said they thought he was going for a weapon. So that's plenty of examples I'm showing to come to the conclusion that the very people who could be committing the crime are also the people who report the statistics used so that's why you can't just use these numbers as facts.

 

I'm not accusing you of arguing this but I'd like to ask do you think that black people in confrontations with police who are armed shouldn't be getting shot or killed? Because the Washington Post broke down the statistics with armed and unarmed. The overall number of black people being shot and killed may have remained steady but the number of unarmed black people being shot and killed by police have dropped since 2015. I think that is an important point because listening to folks talk about police shootings, they swear that black people are being gunned down for being black and it's gotten worse. But the numbers don't actually back that up. Can the numbers be a little skewed, sure, but I don't believe that of the 249 black people shot and killed by police in 2019 that somehow even half of those are intentionally being mislabeled as being armed to make cops not look as bad.

 There were 15 unarmed black people shot and killed by police in 2019. There were 48 police officers that were killed by felonious acts in 2019. 

https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-releases-2019-statistics-on-law-enforcement-officers-killed-in-the-line-of-duty

[The Freak 2,528]

1 hour ago, wdefromtx said:

That is the million dollar question.

I think the bigger question is how do we undo 150 years (I am mainly talking about the end of the Civil War) of systemic racism that purposely was put into place to stymie economic prosperity and equality for blacks? The problem is I don't think either party in our government fully want to fix it. Johnson was probably about the closest we got. Even now with Biden for example if he gets elected, it is not going to get any better. I mean some of the things he wants to reform would just reverse policies he helped put in place. 

 

 

 

We can't fix racism overnight, but we definitely need to continue working on it.  There has been a huge difference in my lifetime, but it still isn't good enough. 

I think the government kinda wants to fix it, but would rather use it as a tool to keep everyone fighting and mad to theoretically keep winning elections.  Some can see through it, some can't - same on both sides of the aisle.

[McLoofus 35,182]

25 minutes ago, Auburnfan91 said:

 There were 15 unarmed black people shot and killed by police in 2019. There were 48 police officers that were killed by felonious acts in 2019. 

Well, police officers are tasked with protecting the peace, so there is inherent risk in their jobs. Now, that level of violence and danger is unacceptable needs to be addressed, and many possible solutions have been offered in this thread so far. (Or maybe more in the Defund the Police thread, they're starting to run together, lol.) (Also, notice that none of this has turned into a 2A conversation, even though it very easily could and probably should at some point.)

The whole point is that unarmed civilians who haven't perpetrated a violent crime shouldn't be absorbing that level of risk from police officers. So it's not really fair to compare those numbers.

But as I believe we've discussed and agree, both numbers are less meaningful absent full numbers regarding violence visited upon cops, black people and other group. I could see a scenario where folks are like, "Whoa, 1 in <X number of> cops gets hospitalized at some point in his or her career due to injury resulting in a violent confrontation initiated by a civilian?!?!?" Of course, as previously discussed, that could altar the conversation around black people and other victims of excessive force by police, too. Either way, I think it would give us a fuller picture. George Floyd was probably just another victim of non-lethal police brutality until he wasn't. 

 

[wdefromtx 3,159]

2 hours ago, The Freak said:

We can't fix racism overnight, but we definitely need to continue working on it.  There has been a huge difference in my lifetime, but it still isn't good enough. 

I think the government kinda wants to fix it, but would rather use it as a tool to keep everyone fighting and mad to theoretically keep winning elections.  Some can see through it, some can't - same on both sides of the aisle.

This is what I feel is one of our biggest set-backs.

 

I think for the most change we have to start from the bottom up.....make as big of change at the local level, rather that be community involvement or running for local offices and work up to state and national level. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

4 minutes ago, The Freak said:

We can't fix racism overnight, but we definitely need to continue working on it.  There has been a huge difference in my lifetime, but it still isn't good enough. 

I think the government kinda wants to fix it, but would rather use it as a tool to keep everyone fighting and mad to theoretically keep winning elections.  Some can see through it, some can't - same on both sides of the aisle.

Read an interesting piece today on how the concept of race was invented in Virginia in the 1600s. First it was more or less just rich people and bonded/indentured/enslaved laborers, which included many Irishmen and Scotsmen. But then the ruling class realized that they needed some of the working class to help them keep the rest of the working class literally in chains, so they turned the Irish and Scots into the "white" class and slaves brought from Africa into the "black" class. They literally created the idea of blacks being inferior. Just made it up. None of the working class had any rights whatsoever because they didn't own land, and also because there was a deeply rooted belief in an honest to God (literally) caste system. Poor people were poor because God wanted it that way. But the whites did have dominion over the blacks. Imagine how fiercely people must have fought to maintain control over the only thing they could look down on.

Makes sense still today when you look at the structure of overt, terroristic racism in this country. Legions of poor, underemployed, undereducated whites led by wealthy, powerful whites with a vested interest in keeping the working class too busy yelling at each other to focus on the real problems and unite to fix them. And, in a lot of cases, cops fit that description to a T. What if it's a black cop? Well, that goes back to categorization by color being somewhat imaginary and arbitrary. A lot of black cops are more cops who happen to be black than black men who happen to be cops. They didn't necessarily switch teams, but their loyalties have changed. Now Latinos have been added to the mix. "Bad hombres." "Stealing jobs." "Using public services without paying into them." bull****. They aren't the problem any more than Jews were the white German man's problem in 1940. But folks need something to blame. They need an enemy. And, pretty much for this country's entire history, it's been the black man. 

I keep saying it, but we really are living in a Third Wave experiment run by Wall Street. 

 

 

[Auburnfan91 1,407]

2 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Well, police officers are tasked with protecting the peace, so there is inherent risk in their jobs. Now, that level of violence and danger is unacceptable needs to be addressed, and many possible solutions have been offered in this thread so far. (Or maybe more in the Defund the Police thread, they're starting to run together, lol.) (Also, notice that none of this has turned into a 2A conversation, even though it very easily could and probably should at some point.)

The whole point is that unarmed civilians who haven't perpetrated a violent crime shouldn't be absorbing that level of risk from police officers. So it's not really fair to compare those numbers.

But as I believe we've discussed and agree, both numbers are less meaningful absent full numbers regarding violence visited upon cops, black people and other group. I could see a scenario where folks are like, "Whoa, 1 in <X number of> cops gets hospitalized at some point in his or her career due to injury resulting in a violent confrontation initiated by a civilian?!?!?" Of course, as previously discussed, that could altar the conversation around black people and other victims of excessive force by police, too. Either way, I think it would give us a fuller picture. George Floyd was probably just another victim of non-lethal police brutality until he wasn't. 

 

Unfortunately George Floyd and Eric Garner aren't counted by the Washington Post because they weren't shot by police. Both were restrained to the point of not breathing. We don't know the data on unarmed black people killed by police that are not shot. It may be wishful thinking on my part, but if 249 black people are shot and killed by police, I'd like to believe the number of black people killed by police of other types of force is lower than the 249 that are shot by police. But again we don't have the data on that so nobody can act like that data is on their side when we don't have it.

The number though has dropped for unarmed black people being shot and killed by police. I don't think perpetuating an exaggerated narrative of open season or genocide against blacks is helping the conversation. Nobody has said that black people being killed by police doesn't matter or isn't an issue. People trying to pass the issue off as open season or genocide, when at least for police shootings the data is not even close to that, are only inflaming tensions. I think that's why so many don't even like to engage this topic simply because of the rhetoric and people entrenched in it that anybody that disagrees even to a degree with their view is called racist.( I'm not saying you've done this).

[McLoofus 35,182]

6 minutes ago, Auburnfan91 said:

We don't know the data on unarmed black people killed by police that are not shot.

Then we need to stop using the numbers. I'm embarrassed that you had to point out the distinction to me but I'm assuming I'm not the only one, and you're certainly not the only one posting them. 

6 minutes ago, Auburnfan91 said:

People trying to pass the issue off as open season or genocide

You've said this several times, but I haven't seen many people using these terms. You might be the only one. Doesn't mean others aren't, but it doesn't seem to be a significant part of the broader discourse. 

[wdefromtx 3,159]

2 hours ago, wdefromtx said:

This is what I feel is one of our biggest set-backs.

 

I think for the most change we have to start from the bottom up.....make as big of change at the local level, rather that be community involvement or running for local offices and work up to state and national level. 

This got a thumbs down from ICHY. I guess add that he supports racism to the list of things we know about him. 

[The Freak 2,528]

2 hours ago, wdefromtx said:

This got a thumbs down from ICHY. I guess add that he supports racism to the list of things we know about him. 

I've gotten a lot in this thread.  It's a badge of honor.

 

Truth be told, I did actually deserve a few of them.

[cole256 17,084]

7 hours ago, SocialCircle said:

I thought we weren’t talking but I will respond. The last year and a half has been a very good improvement per the Wa Post: In 2015 it says 258 black men were killed by the police with 38 of those being unarmed.  In the most recent complete year of the data is 2019.  The total number of blacks killed by police was 247 and the # of unarmed black men killed was 15.  2020 is looking like a much, much improved year even with the George Floyd murder as it shows 97 blacks killed by police and 6 were unarmed.  Like I said.....the actual numbers are improving.  The thing about the Post is they investigated each one and they are left leaning. 

We have no idea if the Floyd murder would have been covered up or not. We agree it is likely. The good news is it is harder than ever to cover up stuff like this today with all of the cameras and videos via phone, etc...
 

Id be interested in the Dothan info. Please post a link. 

We ABSOLUTELY know they would've covered it up. They literally put in the report an ENTIRE different account than what happened. If anything it shows how easy it is to not be accurate. 

I addressed you because you were talking about me indirectly so I needed to give correct information. 

Those numbers are on course to being the same as always unless you're literally saying well that's two less so it's improving....And if you are saying that then you're once again being disingenuous. 

I'll come back and edit this with the Dothan stuff

 

https://atlantatribune.com/2019/11/21/police-in-alabama-planted-drugs-and-guns-on-over-1000-innocent-black-men/

https://www.newsbreak.com/alabama/dothan/news/0NSRHRiP/police-in-alabama-set-up-and-falsely-arrested-over-1000-innocent-black-men

 

This gives quite a bit of information of corrupt dealings over history 

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Police-Brutality-in-the-United-States-2064580/Antibrutality-campaigns

[cole256 17,084]

6 hours ago, Auburnfan91 said:

I'm not accusing you of arguing this but I'd like to ask do you think that black people in confrontations with police who are armed shouldn't be getting shot or killed? Because the Washington Post broke down the statistics with armed and unarmed. The overall number of black people being shot and killed may have remained steady but the number of unarmed black people being shot and killed by police have dropped since 2015. I think that is an important point because listening to folks talk about police shootings, they swear that black people are being gunned down for being black and it's gotten worse. But the numbers don't actually back that up. Can the numbers be a little skewed, sure, but I don't believe that of the 249 black people shot and killed by police in 2019 that somehow even half of those are intentionally being mislabeled as being armed to make cops not look as bad.

 There were 15 unarmed black people shot and killed by police in 2019. There were 48 police officers that were killed by felonious acts in 2019. 

https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-releases-2019-statistics-on-law-enforcement-officers-killed-in-the-line-of-duty

So my question to you is why was it ok to get so amped up on terrorist attacks then? The only difference is now in this situation white people are the target but NEVER did you hear anybody say well this doesn't happen often so let's not make too big of a deal

[SocialCircle 570]

1 hour ago, cole256 said:

We ABSOLUTELY know they would've covered it up. They literally put in the report an ENTIRE different account than what happened. If anything it shows how easy it is to not be accurate. 

I addressed you because you were talking about me indirectly so I needed to give correct information. 

Those numbers are on course to being the same as always unless you're literally saying well that's two less so it's improving....And if you are saying that then you're once again being disingenuous. 

I'll come back and edit this with the Dothan stuff

 

https://atlantatribune.com/2019/11/21/police-in-alabama-planted-drugs-and-guns-on-over-1000-innocent-black-men/

https://www.newsbreak.com/alabama/dothan/news/0NSRHRiP/police-in-alabama-set-up-and-falsely-arrested-over-1000-innocent-black-men

 

This gives quite a bit of information of corrupt dealings over history 

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Police-Brutality-in-the-United-States-2064580/Antibrutality-campaigns

Thanks for the info. I’ll take a look. We don’t know for sure on the MN cops, but I believe it is very likely. 11 less and more than half as many unarmed reduction is solid improvement.  This year we are on track to reduce it by another 50 overall and get to under 15 unarmed which is improvement yet again. 
 

And study on police brutality from Harvard:

Excerpt here:

Looking back at the big questions surrounding the blame for police brutality—why it is so often attributed to white male officers and what data says about this stereotype—the consensus supported by years of studies that white and black police officers are equally likely to use force against black subjects suggests that the notion of individual police officers being racist against black subjects is not accurate throughout the nation. While individual officers’ biases may play a large role in significantly higher rates of violence against black subjects in some places, the real source of anti-black bias in other places may be of a systemic or institutional origin. Therefore, the data may point toward a need for further research into the structure and historically rooted conventions of local legal systems and law enforcement agencies. Such efforts may shed light on sources or anti-black bias that are engrained in regional institutions.

To explain why the stereotype of white male officers being responsible for police brutality exists in the minds of the public, one must consider not only the facts and figures of the present but also their historical context and significance. “History exists,” said Feldman, “and there’s a very long history in the United States of either white police officers or white vigilantes committing explicitly racist acts of violence [against black people].”

 

Full study here: 

https://harvardpolitics.com/online/statistical-police-investigation-viewing-police-brutality-data-driven-lens/

[SocialCircle 570]

1 hour ago, cole256 said:

We ABSOLUTELY know they would've covered it up. They literally put in the report an ENTIRE different account than what happened. If anything it shows how easy it is to not be accurate. 

I addressed you because you were talking about me indirectly so I needed to give correct information. 

Those numbers are on course to being the same as always unless you're literally saying well that's two less so it's improving....And if you are saying that then you're once again being disingenuous. 

I'll come back and edit this with the Dothan stuff

 

https://atlantatribune.com/2019/11/21/police-in-alabama-planted-drugs-and-guns-on-over-1000-innocent-black-men/

https://www.newsbreak.com/alabama/dothan/news/0NSRHRiP/police-in-alabama-set-up-and-falsely-arrested-over-1000-innocent-black-men

 

This gives quite a bit of information of corrupt dealings over history 

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Police-Brutality-in-the-United-States-2064580/Antibrutality-campaigns

It looks like the FBI spent a long time investigating the allegations concerning the Dothan police. Here is what the Dothan paper said the FBI found:

https://www.dothaneagle.com/news/crime_court/fbi-no-evidence-of-systematic-drug-planting-by-dothan-pd/article_8d1e3796-ab18-11e9-a36f-67a971db69de.html
 

 

[SocialCircle 570]

2 hours ago, cole256 said:

We ABSOLUTELY know they would've covered it up. They literally put in the report an ENTIRE different account than what happened. If anything it shows how easy it is to not be accurate. 

I addressed you because you were talking about me indirectly so I needed to give correct information. 

Those numbers are on course to being the same as always unless you're literally saying well that's two less so it's improving....And if you are saying that then you're once again being disingenuous. 

I'll come back and edit this with the Dothan stuff

 

https://atlantatribune.com/2019/11/21/police-in-alabama-planted-drugs-and-guns-on-over-1000-innocent-black-men/

https://www.newsbreak.com/alabama/dothan/news/0NSRHRiP/police-in-alabama-set-up-and-falsely-arrested-over-1000-innocent-black-men

 

This gives quite a bit of information of corrupt dealings over history 

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Police-Brutality-in-the-United-States-2064580/Antibrutality-campaigns

Here are some facts to consider:

below are facts, not opinions.

-blacks are 12.6% of the US population according to google and white is 72% (5.5x more white people)

-blacks, of course, are known to have far higher likelihood of incarceration (2x over Hispanics, 4x over white people according to Wikipedia). they are about 3x more likely per capita than white to be killed by a cop

-but despite being 12% of the population they commit 47.3% of all murders (3156 / 6676 in 2016), wikipedia says 52% as an overal recent number - about 4x more than you would expect as a percentage of the population

-but are only ¼ of the total people killed in police shootings (457 white, 223 black, 179 hispanic, 128 other = 223/ 987 = 22.6%). Other sources I saw say ⅓

-black cops are 50% more likely to shoot a black person than a white cop is (or Hispanic cop)

[cole256 17,084]

18 minutes ago, SocialCircle said:

Here are some facts to consider:

below are facts, not opinions.

-blacks are 12.6% of the US population according to google and white is 72% (5.5x more white people)

-blacks, of course, are known to have far higher likelihood of incarceration (2x over Hispanics, 4x over white people according to Wikipedia). they are about 3x more likely per capita than white to be killed by a cop

-but despite being 12% of the population they commit 47.3% of all murders (3156 / 6676 in 2016), wikipedia says 52% as an overal recent number - about 4x more than you would expect as a percentage of the population

-but are only ¼ of the total people killed in police shootings (457 white, 223 black, 179 hispanic, 128 other = 223/ 987 = 22.6%). Other sources I saw say ⅓

-black cops are 50% more likely to shoot a black person than a white cop is (or Hispanic cop)

The only way that can really make any sense is if somebody did a study and showed that blacks in middle class or wealthy black people killed more people than other races....

If you spend all your time looking in a spot to find wrong you're going to find it. 

And I don't know what point you are trying to make. I'm sure whatever I say you are trying to say you will say you're not but you won't say anything of substance. If you're saying chill only some of you are being killed I'm going to have to tell you to go jump off a bridge

[cole256 17,084]

I hate that I have to say this. But, here goes...

If a pilot crashes a plane every several years, those are ISOLATED INCIDENTS. If the airline industry has a series of plane crashes, nobody wants to hear how good “most” pilots/planes are. We want to KNOW that EVERY pilot/plane still in the air is good! 

Otherwise, how can we have faith in your ability to KEEP US SAFE and not KILL US ALL?!?

That’s the same expectation in my industry and every other that is held to a high standard. 
 

[I_M4_AU 7,857]

14 hours ago, cole256 said:

I hate that I have to say this. But, here goes...

If a pilot crashes a plane every several years, those are ISOLATED INCIDENTS. If the airline industry has a series of plane crashes, nobody wants to hear how good “most” pilots/planes are. We want to KNOW that EVERY pilot/plane still in the air is good! 

Otherwise, how can we have faith in your ability to KEEP US SAFE and not KILL US ALL?!?

That’s the same expectation in my industry and every other that is held to a high standard. 
 

The airline industry spends countless amounts of time and money on training and evaluating pilots.  The pilots are trained to Federal Air Regulations that are the same for each and every airline. If an accident occurs, there are multiple agencies, along with the airlines themselves, that will drill down to the lowest cause (as usually there are multiple) and spread that news to the industry on a monthly basis.  And I’m not just talking about the ones that results in a death.  The airline industry pays these pilot a very good salary and can demand high standards.  

The culture in the airline industry has drastically changed over the years and a lot has been the retirement of each generation.  For example; when I was hired in 81, the captain was king and never questioned.  He was brought up by the WWII guys that drank on the overnights and womanized every chance they got.  All disputes were solved in the flightdeck with the First Officer having the last words, which were “yes Captain”.  As each generation retired and the aircraft got more complicated, standardization in procedures and compliance is where the industry started to head. When I left, there were very few that didn’t understand the importance of SOPs and compliance to policies.  Each crew member  (Captain, FO or Flight Attendant) could raise a concern and the Captain had to deal with it or pay the consequences if he didn’t act appropriately.  There were an open line of communications.  It took years and I think there are police officers that want to affect change in their profession and this may be the catalyst if they can get over the resentment they have at the moment.

I’m sure it similar to what you go through in yours.  I hope I didn’t bore you with this.  @homersapien

[cole256 17,084]

49 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

The airline industry spends countless amounts of time and money on training and evaluating pilots.  The pilots are trained to Federal Air Regulations that are the same for each and every airline. If an accident occurs, there are multiple agencies, along with the airlines themselves, that will drill down to the lowest cause (as usually there are multiple) and spread that news to the industry on a monthly basis.  And I’m not just talking about the ones that results in a death.  The airline industry pays these pilot a very good salary and can demand high standards.  

The culture in the airline industry has drastically changed over the years and a lot has been the retirement of each generation.  For example; when I was hired in 81, the captain was king and never questioned.  He was brought up by the WWII guys that drank on the overnights and womanized every chance they got.  All disputes were solved in the flightdeck with the First Officer having the last words, which were “yes Captain”.  As each generation retired and the aircraft got more complicated, standardization in procedures and compliance is where the industry started to head. When I left, there were very few that didn’t understand the importance of SOPs and compliance to policies.  Each crew member  (Captain, FO or Flight Attendant) could raise a concern and the Captain had to deal with it or pay the consequences if he didn’t act appropriately.  There were an open line of communications.  It took years and I think there are police officers that want to affect change in their profession and this may be the catalyst if they can get over the resentment they have at the moment.

I’m sure it similar to what you go through in yours.  I hope I didn’t bore you with this.  @homersapien

I don't understand the point?

[wdefromtx 3,159]

5 minutes ago, cole256 said:

I don't understand the point?

I took his point being change in policing can happen, but it’s going to require an overhaul in the culture. Especially when it comes to certain people having “end all be all” authority or perceived authority.  That’s one of my take aways. 

[I_M4_AU 7,857]

48 minutes ago, cole256 said:

I don't understand the point?

You mentioned the airline industry and I thought I would give a little background on said industry.  The culture in any industry changes with time and personnel and evolves as it goes along, mostly for the good of the industry.  The catalyst for change is usually an event or a series of events that is recognized by management and/or employees, but sometimes by accidents.

The culture of the airline industry 40 years ago was *the captain is always right*, much like Derek Chauvin was training the rookies and even though the rookies spoke up, they didn’t get Chauvin to consider options that the SOPs probably contained with respect to controlling Floyd (resisting arrest doesn’t mean the police can do anything they want).

Today, if a FO or Flight Attendant were to speak up, the captain has to acknowledge the statement of concern and address it with policy or he/she could be held responsible for a decision that wasn’t policy.  The FO and Flight Attendant could be held responsible too if they knew about an issue and didn’t speak to the captain.  That is a huge cultural change that the police will have to deal with if they are willing.  You had mentioned in a previous post that the two rookie cops were guilty as they should have spoken up with more assertion and forcefulness and that is part of the culture that must also change.

Does this make sense?

[Auburnfan91 1,407]

19 hours ago, cole256 said:

So my question to you is why was it ok to get so amped up on terrorist attacks then? The only difference is now in this situation white people are the target but NEVER did you hear anybody say well this doesn't happen often so let's not make too big of a deal

I'd say this country has gotten less amped up on terrorist attacks in the last few years when actually talking about terrorism. A lot of the more recent terrorist attacks have shifted from talking about terrorism into talking about gun control and trying to implement more gun control laws because the terrorist used guns to carry out the attacks.

2015 San Bernadino: https://www.aufamily.com/forums/topic/148919-current-active-shooter-in-san-bernardino/page/5/#comments

2016 Pulse nightclub: https://www.aufamily.com/forums/topic/151358-military-grade-assault-weapons/

 

[homersapien 11,388]

5 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

The airline industry spends countless amounts of time and money on training and evaluating pilots.  The pilots are trained to Federal Air Regulations that are the same for each and every airline. If an accident occurs, there are multiple agencies, along with the airlines themselves, that will drill down to the lowest cause (as usually there are multiple) and spread that news to the industry on a monthly basis.  And I’m not just talking about the ones that results in a death.  The airline industry pays these pilot a very good salary and can demand high standards.  

The culture in the airline industry has drastically changed over the years and a lot has been the retirement of each generation.  For example; when I was hired in 81, the captain was king and never questioned.  He was brought up by the WWII guys that drank on the overnights and womanized every chance they got.  All disputes were solved in the flightdeck with the First Officer having the last words, which were “yes Captain”.  As each generation retired and the aircraft got more complicated, standardization in procedures and compliance is where the industry started to head. When I left, there were very few that didn’t understand the importance of SOPs and compliance to policies.  Each crew member  (Captain, FO or Flight Attendant) could raise a concern and the Captain had to deal with it or pay the consequences if he didn’t act appropriately.  There were an open line of communications.  It took years and I think there are police officers that want to affect change in their profession and this may be the catalyst if they can get over the resentment they have at the moment.

I’m sure it similar to what you go through in yours.  I hope I didn’t bore you with this.  @homersapien

WTF does that have to do with Cole's post?