Drew Brees Comments

[McLoofus 35,182]

On 6/7/2020 at 9:16 AM, Grumps said:

So are you saying that if Brees takes a knee during the National Anthem at his next game then he is making a meaningful protest against police brutality and if he doesn't then he is not making a meaningful protest?

Getting closer. I'm sure there are other ways that he could make a meaningful protest. One way would be for him to take a knee after receiving the first snap of the game. Because that would require sacrifice. You see, that's what protest is. So when he took a knee with every other guy out there and not during the national anthem, that was not protest at all. That was a small show of solidarity, which clearly meant nothing to much of his target audience. They were very candid and explicit in voicing that in the days after the comments that prompted this thread.

Good on you, by the way, for starting the conversation.

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Are you saying that CK is the definer of "meaningful" protest?

No. 

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If CK had defined "meaningful" as kneeling before the National Anthem them Brees would be in "compliance" but since CK defined "meaningful as during the National Anthem that Brees in not in "compliance?"

I think my previous responses cover this.

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My question goes back to "Who gets to define what is meaningful?"

Nobody. But it's fairly easy to judge which things are meaningful to the point of being impactful and which are meaningful to the point of making a person's mom say, "Aw, such a good boy." 

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Brees was very short-sighted when he answered the question asked to him by the reporter. All I saw him do was say that he could not agree with disrespecting the flag. The implication was that he feels like taking a knee during the National Anthem is disrespecting the flag. Who are we to say that he is wrong? I don't feel like I am in a position to say that CK's feelings are wrong or that Brees' feelings are wrong.

Fortunately, Brees knows why his comments were wrong and has addressed them accordingly. Now he's putting more on the line. Now his response is becoming more meaningful. 

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It just seems hypocritical to say that CK should not have been treated horribly because of his views over how he chooses to act during the National Anthem and that Brees should be treated horribly because of his views over how he chooses to act during the National Anthem.

The difference is that Kaepernick's didn't try to tell Brees that he should kneel. To my knowledge, Kaepernick never once said that others should kneel, too. Brees could have expressed pride in the flag and love for his country without calling anyone else's approach into question. That's the difference and the problem. Brees made it clear that even 4 years of working in an NFL locker room and being a hero and leader in a black city later, he still didn't understand any of it. He's acknowledged as much. Hopefully everyone can move forward.

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As I intended to state initially, I fear that how this is handled will affect the views of many people who might finally be open to consider how we all contribute to systemic racism.

Hopefully it does affect them. It should definitely affect them in a positive and productive way if they are truly open to the message. If they get shook by this, then they're probably not actually open to much at all. 

[Grumps 3,704]

3 minutes ago, SocialCircle said:

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/table-43

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/topic-pages/tables/table-21

The attached clearly shows the percent of the white and black populations in the US.  It also shows the percentage of violent crime committed by blacks is higher than the percentage of blacks in our total population.  Of course, it also shows the violent crimes committed by whites is lower than the percentage of the white population in this country.  

I have provided reference for the fact that blacks commit proportionally more violent crimes than whites. Do you now acknowledge this fact?  If not, there is no use in discussing with you any longer as you refuse to accept facts and it is too hard to have a reasonable discussion with someone who invents their own narrative because they refuse to accept facts.  

 

I see your point, but your point is different from what is trying to be discussed. If ONE black man is treated badly because of his skin color then that is too many. Do you agree? If the BLM movement can prevent even that one man from being mistreated then it is a good thing (and obviously it is a MUCH bigger problem than that). Please try to embrace the efforts of many people to make this country a better and more accepting place. All white people treating black people as equals is a good thing for everyone and in no way diminishes anyone's whiteness.

I might seem like a hypocrite making this post since I started this thread, but my only reason for starting this thread is because I believe that Brees has been treated unfairly. But how Brees has been treated has NO bearing on the BLM movement, in my opinion.

[wdefromtx 3,159]

1 minute ago, SocialCircle said:

I don't ignore it at all.  I accept that is the focus and I haven't seen anyone explain the reasoning. I just don't understand why that is the practically the sole focus and nobody can offer a reasonable explanation except that is what the focus is.  I am trying to understand why that is the focus as I still don't understand why.  I provided data and will provide more if the other poster acknowledges he accepts the facts proven by the data I just presented.  If he doesn't, then there is no use in discussing this further. 

With your logic if a group that focuses on a rare form of deadly cancer with say 100 deaths a year is not warranted because you don't think there is a reasonable explanation as to why a group would worry about something with so few deaths compared to one that has 40,000 deaths, 

[SocialCircle 570]

2 minutes ago, Grumps said:

I see your point, but your point is different from what is trying to be discussed. If ONE black man is treated badly because of his skin color then that is too many. Do you agree? If the BLM movement can prevent even that one man from being mistreated then it is a good thing (and obviously it is a MUCH bigger problem than that). Please try to embrace the efforts of many people to make this country a better and more accepting place. All white people treating black people as equals is a good thing for everyone and in no way diminishes anyone's whiteness.

I might seem like a hypocrite making this post since I started this thread, but my only reason for starting this thread is because I believe that Brees has been treated unfairly. But how Brees has been treated has NO bearing on the BLM movement, in my opinion.

I agree with everything in your post.  My hope is the movement expands into areas that actually take more innocent black lives because I really do believe blacks lives matter.  I do think we need to continue to do better as it relates to police brutality.  One thing that really bothers me is the fact that a white man can be charged for the same crime as a black man and the data indicates the black man will have to serve more time for the same crime.  

[Grumps 3,704]

7 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Getting closer. I'm sure there are other ways that he could make a meaningful protest. One way would be for him to take a knee after receiving the first snap of the game. Because that would require sacrifice. You see, that's what protest is. So when he took a knee with every other guy out there and not during the national anthem, that was not protest at all. That was a small show of solidarity, which clearly meant nothing to much of his target audience. They were very candid and explicit in voicing that in the days after the comments that prompted this thread.

Good on you, by the way, for starting the conversation.

No. 

I think my previous responses cover this.

Nobody. But it's fairly easy to judge which things are meaningful to the point of being impactful and which are meaningful to the point of making a person's mom say, "Aw, such a good boy." 

Fortunately, Brees knows why his comments were wrong and has addressed them accordingly. Now he's putting more on the line. Now his response is becoming more meaningful. 

The difference is that Kaepernick's didn't try to tell Brees that he should kneel. To my knowledge, Kaepernick never once said that others should kneel, too. Brees could have expressed pride in the flag and love for his country without calling anyone else's approach into question. That's the difference and the problem. Brees made it clear that even 4 years of working in an NFL locker room and being a hero and leader in a black city later, he still didn't understand any of it. He's acknowledged as much. Hopefully everyone can move forward.

Hopefully it does affect them. It should definitely affect them in a positive and productive way if they are truly open to the message. If they get shook by this, then they're probably not actually open to much at all. 

Thank you for your reply.  Kaepernick did not try to tell Brees that he should kneel, but Brees didn't tell Kaepernick not to kneel, either. He just said that he did not agree with it. The only thing that we seem to disagree on is who gets to decide what a meaningful protest is. 

[SocialCircle 570]

4 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

With your logic if a group that focuses on a rare form of deadly cancer with say 100 deaths a year is not warranted because you don't think there is a reasonable explanation as to why a group would worry about something with so few deaths compared to one that has 40,000 deaths, 

I have never said there should be no focus on police brutality.  I implore you to quit putting words in my mouth and/or trying to spin what I say.  My point is in my opinion there should be more focus on trying to prevent the killing of innocent blacks in Chicago and in our cities and more focus on trying to save black (and white) babies from being killed via abortion.  Why do you find it necessary to continue to spin what I am saying on this issue?  I have never once said there should be no focus on eliminating police brutality or bad cops....not once have I said that and I don't believe that at all.  

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 minute ago, Grumps said:

Thank you for your reply.  Kaepernick did not try to tell Brees that he should kneel, but Brees didn't tell Kaepernick not to kneel, either. He just said that he did not agree with it. The only thing that we seem to disagree on is who gets to decide what a meaningful protest is. 

Sigh. That's an incredibly minute semantic difference. But fine. Kaep didn't suggest that he disagrees with standing for the anthem. He only said that he chooses not to stand. Brees did say that he disagrees with kneeling for it. He went beyond just saying that he chooses to stand. That is the difference. 

As for who decides what's meaningful, again, ask the black players in the league. They seem to have, for the most part, made it very clear how meaningful they thought it was that Brees joined in with something that everyone on the team was doing and for which there were no possible negative consequences. 

[wdefromtx 3,159]

1 minute ago, SocialCircle said:

I have never said there should be no focus on police brutality.  I implore you to quit putting words in my mouth and/or trying to spin what I say.  My point is in my opinion there should be more focus on trying to prevent the killing of innocent blacks in Chicago and in our cities and more focus on trying to save black (and white) babies from being killed via abortion.  Why do you find it necessary to continue to spin what I am saying on this issue?  I have never once said there should be no focus on eliminating police brutality or bad cops....not once have I said that and I don't believe that at all.  

I am not spinning what you say!!!

 

Simple question does an organization that focuses on a rare form of cancer need an explanation as to why that is their focus? Yes or no answer, so spin just yes or no?

[cole256 17,084]

44 minutes ago, SocialCircle said:

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/table-43

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/topic-pages/tables/table-21

The attached clearly shows the percent of the white and black populations in the US.  It also shows the percentage of violent crime committed by blacks is higher than the percentage of blacks in our total population.  Of course, it also shows the violent crimes committed by whites is lower than the percentage of the white population in this country.  

I have provided reference for the fact that blacks commit proportionally more violent crimes than whites. Do you now acknowledge this fact?  If not, there is no use in discussing with you any longer as you refuse to accept facts and it is too hard to have a reasonable discussion with someone who invents their own narrative because they refuse to accept facts.  

 

Lol. I think you should look at your chart closer and I'd be interested in a more recent study. But if he saying no is all it takes for you talking to me then no

[cole256 17,084]

Hey somebody tell social that black babies turn into black men and women and watch his head explode 😂

[I_M4_AU 7,857]

12 hours ago, cole256 said:

That's absolutely not true and the fact that many like you literally refuse to listen is the problem. But brees works with mostly black athletes. He would be nothing in football without African Americans and he is held accountable. There's not one person that cared he said ANYTHING about his grandparents. But to manipulate narratives it sounds good huh? 

Here ya go Cole:  Shannan Sharpe talking about Grandparents

And then there is Tony Dungy who’s father fought in WWII. 

By the way, Tony said he would forgive Drew.  I am jealous of Tony’s dad, he flew the P-51 out of Tuskegee, what a cool airplane.

[SocialCircle 570]

8 minutes ago, cole256 said:

Hey somebody tell social that black babies turn into black men and women and watch his head explode 😂

Why do you constantly attack me personally and also call me names? I have dear friends and people I consider as family ( and they also consider me family) who are black. I don’t accept the personal insults and attacks and hope for an apology. God bless you!

[SocialCircle 570]

38 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

I am not spinning what you say!!!

 

Simple question does an organization that focuses on a rare form of cancer need an explanation as to why that is their focus? Yes or no answer, so spin just yes or no?

You are spinning what I say. You continue to say I think no focus should be given to police brutality and I’ve never said that and don’t believe that as I think it can be improved. 

[wdefromtx 3,159]

1 minute ago, SocialCircle said:

You are spinning what I say. You continue to say I think no focus should be given to police brutality and I’ve never said that and don’t believe that as I think it can be improved. 

Yes or no answer please. You are dodging the question. I am asking about this explanation you seem to want.

[The Freak 2,528]

This thread is a good illustration as to why this country can not fix any problems.  No one listens.  No one can accept a different view point.  No one can try to walk a mile in someone else's shoes.

[johnnyAU 3,634]

32 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Here ya go Cole:  Shannan Sharpe talking about Grandparents

And then there is Tony Dungy who’s father fought in WWII. 

By the way, Tony said he would forgive Drew.  I am jealous of Tony’s dad, he flew the P-51 out of Tuskegee, what a cool airplane.

The world could use more folks like Tony Dungy.  In general, not just because of what he is saying about this particular incident.  He is just a good dude and a heck of a role model for young men of all races, religions, etc...

[wdefromtx 3,159]

13 minutes ago, The Freak said:

This thread is a good illustration as to why this country can not fix any problems.  No one listens.  No one can accept a different view point.  No one can try to walk a mile in someone else's shoes.

Sad but true! 

[I_M4_AU 7,857]

9 minutes ago, johnnyAU said:

The world could use more folks like Tony Dungy.  In general, not just because of what he is saying about this particular incident.  He is just a good dude and a heck of a role model for young men of all races, religions, etc...

He is a leader and could do better than CK leading this movement.

[Auburnfan91 1,407]

The Washington Post has been tracking police shootings since 2015 and created a database. Obviously the database doesn't account for things like choke holds or knees on someone's neck that result in death, just police shootings. The database can be broken down by race, gender, state, age, year of shooting, and whether they were armed or unarmed.

In 2015 there were 38 unarmed black people shot and killed by police.

As of June 8, 2020, the 2019 total is 15 unarmed black people shot and killed by police. There were also 25 unarmed white people shot and killed by police in 2019. 

here is the link to the Washington Post database: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/police-shootings-database/

If you listen to some people in the media and especially the attorney for the Floyd family, Ben Crump, you would really think it's open season on black people in the U.S. or there's a genocide occurring by the police against black people.

If you actually look into the cases of those 15 unarmed black people that were shot and killed in 2019, a majority of them attacked the police officers prior to being shot. And in a couple of the cases, although they were listed as unarmed, there are local articles linked by the WashPo that stated that guns were found at the scene of the shootings.  They were not just gunned down for being black. One of the officers that shot and killed one of the 15 unarmed black people in 2019 was also black. Only 2 of the police officers that shot and killed unarmed black people in 2019 were criminally charged. Most of the police officers were not charged, including the black police officer I just mentioned.

[SocialCircle 570]

41 minutes ago, The Freak said:

This thread is a good illustration as to why this country can not fix any problems.  No one listens.  No one can accept a different view point.  No one can try to walk a mile in someone else's shoes.

I agree that not too many listen and try to understand a different point of view in today's world and it is unfortunate. 

[wdefromtx 3,159]

4 minutes ago, SocialCircle said:

I agree that not too many listen and try to understand a different point of view in today's world and it is unfortunate. 

Or won’t answer a simple yes or no question. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

7 minutes ago, Auburnfan91 said:

If you actually look into the cases of those 15 unarmed black people that were shot and killed in 2019, a majority of them attacked the police officers prior to being shot. And in a couple of the cases, although they were listed as unarmed, there are local articles linked by the WashPo that stated that guns were found at the scene of the shootings.

What category do you think George Floyd would have fallen into if there hadn't been video? Honest question. 

I'm not attacking you because we only have the numbers we have and it's hard for those of us who haven't been in these situations to come to conclusions without different numbers. But I do believe that scenes of crimes and arrests are frequently doctored to suit the needs of various agencies affected by their outcomes. 

Thank you for pointing out in the first paragraph that the statistics don't include other forms of excessive violence. I think that's important. 

[SocialCircle 570]

1 hour ago, wdefromtx said:

Yes or no answer please. You are dodging the question. I am asking about this explanation you seem to want.

The answer is more complex than yes or no.  

The primary focus of time and effort on finding a cure for a rare form of cancer should in my opinion be in proportion to how many times it occurs and kills people and I think this is usually the case.  Yes, in my view the team working on the cure for a rare form of cancer should continue......as long as there is enough focus and time and effort already being spent on finding a cure for cancers that occur more frequently and that kill more people.  

I don't have any problem with some focus and time and effort spent on police brutality.  However, I simply think more black lives would be saved if there was more focus by more people on those things that cause more loss of innocent black life.  I understand why there is a lot of focus on police brutality right now because of the emotional and unjust killing of George Floyd by the police.  But big picture and long term I am hopeful many people will pick up and try to impact those things that cause more loss of innocent life than does police brutality.  My goal being saving more innocent lives.  

[SocialCircle 570]

2 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

What category do you think George Floyd would have fallen into if there hadn't been video? Honest question. 

I'm not attacking you because we only have the numbers we have and it's hard for those of us who haven't been in these situations to come to conclusions without different numbers. But I do believe that scenes of crimes and arrests are frequently doctored to suit the needs of various agencies affected by their outcomes. 

Thank you for pointing out in the first paragraph that the statistics don't include other forms of excessive violence. I think that's important. 

I actually agree with the point I think you are trying to make here.  This is why I am in full support of all police wearing body cameras and why I am glad we have so much video in our world today.  This does help shine a light on evil.  There is no way to know, but in my heart I believe that particular set of police would have tried to cover it up.  I also believe the vast majority of police do a good job and reports are filed accurately, but I don't believe that would have been the case here based on the evidence I see of these police.  This is why I am also for special prosecutors who aren't local to be appointed to cases where any police are charged with a crime.  I think some times the locals are too close to the police to be unbiased.  

[wdefromtx 3,159]

11 minutes ago, SocialCircle said:

The answer is more complex than yes or no.  

The primary focus of time and effort on finding a cure for a rare form of cancer should in my opinion be in proportion to how many times it occurs and kills people and I think this is usually the case.  Yes, in my view the team working on the cure for a rare form of cancer should continue......as long as there is enough focus and time and effort already being spent on finding a cure for cancers that occur more frequently and that kill more people.  

I don't have any problem with some focus and time and effort spent on police brutality.  However, I simply think more black lives would be saved if there was more focus by more people on those things that cause more loss of innocent black life.  I understand why there is a lot of focus on police brutality right now because of the emotional and unjust killing of George Floyd by the police.  But big picture and long term I am hopeful many people will pick up and try to impact those things that cause more loss of innocent life than does police brutality.  My goal being saving more innocent lives.  

Man you still miss the point!! I imagine it’s because you want to miss the point. I already said other organizations focus on other cancers. Why do you feel the need to bring up other causes when I say those get addressed, just not by this particular organization?  So yes it is a simple yes or no question.