Current Active Shooter in San Bernardino

[AU_Tiger_88 417]

Serious Question: How many times has an armed citizen stopped one of these mass murders?

that is a statistic that isn't kept or hard to find...it doesn't fit the agenda...

Yet traffic deaths are relevant? :-\

they are just as relevant to the discussion that is being put out by those that want to curtail the buying of guns to the general populace. There are many people crying out in the media for politicians to do something...but yet do not articulate what they want to be done. We have plenty of laws on the books but yet every time there is one of these incidents it gets into the same debate and ausn throws up a stupid graphic...not many want to put forth something that we can debate about. And if a person throws out close the loopholes and are asked which ones in particular, you are vilified or presumed ignorant because a question is asked but there are state dependant loopholes on gun laws. I have seen Florida's laws disparaged on this board but that law has also saved lives not that it gets but a blip on the nightly news down here. So traffic is a relevant statistic because if ausn can throw up a chart on gun deaths there are still more people killed in auto accidents each day than are with guns...so where is the outcry on that?

Right.

Mass shootings : Statistics on mass shootings = Mass shootings : Statistics on transportation fatalities

Sorry, but that dog won't hunt.

so put forth some solutions to the problem or do you think there is a problem with guns?

[AUUSN 823]

So for all of you who are clamoring about the politicians should do something....well what do you say about more people die in vehicle related accidents. Here is an article that is interesting to read. Now if you take suicides out of the statistics (the reason you would take it out is because people who decide to kill themselves would find another way to do it without a gun if they were banned). So why aren't you clamoring about not letting teens drive? Where are the charts ausn? You put up ones about guns but where is the same for motor vehicles? Reason: people believe vehicles are needed and those are typically accidents with a few exceptions...well guns are tools also and like any tool can be used to kill people. However, if you wanted to commit mass murder it isn't that hard to carry out...bombs can be made easily enough to kill many people...what is it (that those of you who want something done) want done? I am tired of people calling for something to be done but yet fail to explain what they want done....why because they probably don't know nor do they really know if it would make a difference....

here are some more stats

Annual United States Road Crash Statistics

• Over 37,000 people die in road crashes each year
  
• An additional 2.35 million are injured or disabled
  
• Over 1,600 children under 15 years of age die each year
  
• Nearly 8,000 people are killed in crashes involving drivers ages 16-20
  
• Road crashes cost the U.S. $230.6 billion per year, or an average of $820 per person
  

I knew this post was coming.

but yet you have no answers or discussions about it but to post graphics about people dying in multiples....you have put forth no real solutions that you can debate but hide behind stupid cartoons and other things that bring no real substance but myrth only to you or those like you. You hint that you supposedly have this insight but offer nothing to the conversation and in military related threads imply that you have a greater understanding than the rest of us, you throw out that you have security clearance like that means something. What you fail to understand is that there are others on here that have clearances, have served in combat and have planned more than just tactical missions but whole campaigns but don't let that stop you...please by all means put up another one of your stupid cartoons or graphs and have yourself a big laugh...

You sound really mad.

The assault rifle meant for military and police is currently terrorizing the population. There's no need for someone to own that type of weapon. Period.

[AUUSN 823]

Hey, how about another cartoon?

[MDM4AU 336]

Serious Question: How many times has an armed citizen stopped one of these mass murders?

This is not a serious question. I can put a list together for you just give me some time. If I can produce 10 by the end of the day would that be sufficient? How about 15? 20?

The problem with your question, though, is most of these take place in municipalities and locations that have strict gun laws or outright prohibition (see: gun free zones). Good-guys with guns don't always work in these situations, but either do seat belts in auto accidents.

[Strychnine 1,804]

So for all of you who are clamoring about the politicians should do something....well what do you say about more people die in vehicle related accidents. Here is an article that is interesting to read. Now if you take suicides out of the statistics (the reason you would take it out is because people who decide to kill themselves would find another way to do it without a gun if they were banned). So why aren't you clamoring about not letting teens drive? Where are the charts ausn? You put up ones about guns but where is the same for motor vehicles? Reason: people believe vehicles are needed and those are typically accidents with a few exceptions...well guns are tools also and like any tool can be used to kill people. However, if you wanted to commit mass murder it isn't that hard to carry out...bombs can be made easily enough to kill many people...what is it (that those of you who want something done) want done? I am tired of people calling for something to be done but yet fail to explain what they want done....why because they probably don't know nor do they really know if it would make a difference....

here are some more stats

Annual United States Road Crash Statistics

• Over 37,000 people die in road crashes each year
  
• An additional 2.35 million are injured or disabled
  
• Over 1,600 children under 15 years of age die each year
  
• Nearly 8,000 people are killed in crashes involving drivers ages 16-20
  
• Road crashes cost the U.S. $230.6 billion per year, or an average of $820 per person
  

I knew this post was coming.

but yet you have no answers or discussions about it but to post graphics about people dying in multiples....you have put forth no real solutions that you can debate but hide behind stupid cartoons and other things that bring no real substance but myrth only to you or those like you. You hint that you supposedly have this insight but offer nothing to the conversation and in military related threads imply that you have a greater understanding than the rest of us, you throw out that you have security clearance like that means something. What you fail to understand is that there are others on here that have clearances, have served in combat and have planned more than just tactical missions but whole campaigns but don't let that stop you...please by all means put up another one of your stupid cartoons or graphs and have yourself a big laugh...

You sound really mad.

The assault rifle meant for military and police is currently terrorizing the population. There's no need for someone to own that type of weapon. Period.

I'm quite fond of mine.

[AUUSN 823]

So for all of you who are clamoring about the politicians should do something....well what do you say about more people die in vehicle related accidents. Here is an article that is interesting to read. Now if you take suicides out of the statistics (the reason you would take it out is because people who decide to kill themselves would find another way to do it without a gun if they were banned). So why aren't you clamoring about not letting teens drive? Where are the charts ausn? You put up ones about guns but where is the same for motor vehicles? Reason: people believe vehicles are needed and those are typically accidents with a few exceptions...well guns are tools also and like any tool can be used to kill people. However, if you wanted to commit mass murder it isn't that hard to carry out...bombs can be made easily enough to kill many people...what is it (that those of you who want something done) want done? I am tired of people calling for something to be done but yet fail to explain what they want done....why because they probably don't know nor do they really know if it would make a difference....

here are some more stats

Annual United States Road Crash Statistics

• Over 37,000 people die in road crashes each year
  
• An additional 2.35 million are injured or disabled
  
• Over 1,600 children under 15 years of age die each year
  
• Nearly 8,000 people are killed in crashes involving drivers ages 16-20
  
• Road crashes cost the U.S. $230.6 billion per year, or an average of $820 per person
  

I knew this post was coming.

but yet you have no answers or discussions about it but to post graphics about people dying in multiples....you have put forth no real solutions that you can debate but hide behind stupid cartoons and other things that bring no real substance but myrth only to you or those like you. You hint that you supposedly have this insight but offer nothing to the conversation and in military related threads imply that you have a greater understanding than the rest of us, you throw out that you have security clearance like that means something. What you fail to understand is that there are others on here that have clearances, have served in combat and have planned more than just tactical missions but whole campaigns but don't let that stop you...please by all means put up another one of your stupid cartoons or graphs and have yourself a big laugh...

You sound really mad.

The assault rifle meant for military and police is currently terrorizing the population. There's no need for someone to own that type of weapon. Period.

I'm quite fond of mine.

We'll disagree. I just can't find in my mind where the proliferation of assault weapons has improved our society.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

Does Syed Farook sound like an ordinary guy with a workplace problem?

Yes.

Turns out you were dead WRONG as is often the case.

[homersapien 11,447]

Serious Question: How many times has an armed citizen stopped one of these mass murders?

that is a statistic that isn't kept or hard to find...it doesn't fit the agenda...

Yet traffic deaths are relevant? :-\

they are just as relevant to the discussion that is being put out by those that want to curtail the buying of guns to the general populace. There are many people crying out in the media for politicians to do something...but yet do not articulate what they want to be done. We have plenty of laws on the books but yet every time there is one of these incidents it gets into the same debate and ausn throws up a stupid graphic...not many want to put forth something that we can debate about. And if a person throws out close the loopholes and are asked which ones in particular, you are vilified or presumed ignorant because a question is asked but there are state dependant loopholes on gun laws. I have seen Florida's laws disparaged on this board but that law has also saved lives not that it gets but a blip on the nightly news down here. So traffic is a relevant statistic because if ausn can throw up a chart on gun deaths there are still more people killed in auto accidents each day than are with guns...so where is the outcry on that?

Right.

Mass shootings : Statistics on mass shootings = Mass shootings : Statistics on transportation fatalities

Sorry, but that dog won't hunt.

so put forth some solutions to the problem or do you think there is a problem with guns?

Well, the statistics would suggest that the United States has a problem with excessive gun deaths in general and mass shooting sprees in particular.

I don't really see a solution other than to re-interpret (regarding militias) or repeal the 2nd amendment and institute gun laws that would prohibit ownership or possession of military-purposed weapons.

But certainly we could pass some common sense restrictions immediately, such as prohibiting persons on the terrorist watch list or persons arrested for domestic abuse from buying guns.

[AUUSN 823]

Does Syed Farook sound like an ordinary guy with a workplace problem?

Yes.

Turns out you were dead WRONG as is often the case.

I was not wrong. Go look at the comments from his co-workers.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

Serious Question: How many times has an armed citizen stopped one of these mass murders?

As a matter of curiousity, what do you propose be done?

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

Does Syed Farook sound like an ordinary guy with a workplace problem?

Yes.

Turns out you were dead WRONG as is often the case.

I was not wrong. Go look at the comments from his co-workers.

I'm listening to info the FBI is talking about. The co-workers don't have a clue about things the FBI is finding out

[AUUSN 823]

Does Syed Farook sound like an ordinary guy with a workplace problem?

Yes.

Turns out you were dead WRONG as is often the case.

I was not wrong. Go look at the comments from his co-workers.

I'm listening to info the FBI is talking about.

Well then post them here and let's have a look.

[Strychnine 1,804]

The assault rifle meant for military and police is currently terrorizing the population. There's no need for someone to own that type of weapon. Period.

I'm quite fond of mine.

We'll disagree. I just can't find in my mind where the proliferation of assault weapons has improved our society.

Incidentally, "assault weapons" have been banned in California for quite some time. The grace period for legal registration of grandfathered weapons ended in December of 2000. Registered ones may be possessed legally, but they cannot be sold or given away. I don't know where these shooters got theirs, but they did not buy or possess them legally in California.

I do not think assault weapons in our society is a problem or the problem, but I do think it's too easy to buy firearms in general. Registering a car, obtaining insurance, and obtaining a driver's license is a lot more complicated than buying a firearm from a pawn shop. Automatic weapons are completely legal to own, but the process of doing so is complicated and the weapons themselves are expensive (since there are so few of them). I would not necessarily have a problem with semi-automatic "assault weapons" being added to the NFA and subject to the same requirements as obtaining a short-barreled rifle or suppressor.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

Does Syed Farook sound like an ordinary guy with a workplace problem?

Yes.

Turns out you were dead WRONG as is often the case.

I was not wrong. Go look at the comments from his co-workers.

I'm listening to info the FBI is talking about.

Well then post them here and let's have a look.

You should watch the news.

[AUUSN 823]

Does Syed Farook sound like an ordinary guy with a workplace problem?

Yes.

Turns out you were dead WRONG as is often the case.

I was not wrong. Go look at the comments from his co-workers.

I'm listening to info the FBI is talking about.

Well then post them here and let's have a look.

You should watch the news.

Nah, that's trash. I have other ways.

So in other words, you are wrong. Syed was a quiet co worker who didn't exhibit any tell tell signs that he was about to go on a massive shooting spree. Wait. It's the name you're referring to? Syed Farook.

[alexava 6,973]

I think data collection/ patriot act discussions are more relevant than gun control. For the record i support gun control but simply gave up arguing it. I am not a hater or racist but these middle eastern americans or immigrants would be watched like hawks. And anyone else who communicates with them. These people were radicalized and we will start finding proof of that very soon.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

Does Syed Farook sound like an ordinary guy with a workplace problem?

Yes.

Turns out you were dead WRONG as is often the case.

I was not wrong. Go look at the comments from his co-workers.

I'm listening to info the FBI is talking about.

Well then post them here and let's have a look. And by "I have other ways" I can only assume you are trying to impress us that you know more tan the FBI, et. al.

You should watch the news.

Nah, that's trash. I have other ways.

So in other words, you are wrong. Syed was a quiet co worker who didn't exhibit any tell tell signs that he was about to go on a massive shooting spree. Wait. It's the name you're referring to? Syed Farook.

Of course I'm wrong in your eyes. That is true of most malignant narcissists like you. And by "what I do" I assume you are trying to impress us that you know more about things than the FBI, etc. I think what you do is spend a lot of time on message boards trying to impress people and stroke your ego.

[AUUSN 823]

Does Syed Farook sound like an ordinary guy with a workplace problem?

Yes.

Turns out you were dead WRONG as is often the case.

I was not wrong. Go look at the comments from his co-workers.

I'm listening to info the FBI is talking about.

Well then post them here and let's have a look. And by "I have other ways" I can only assume you are trying to impress us that you know more tan the FBI, et. al.

You should watch the news.

Nah, that's trash. I have other ways.

So in other words, you are wrong. Syed was a quiet co worker who didn't exhibit any tell tell signs that he was about to go on a massive shooting spree. Wait. It's the name you're referring to? Syed Farook.

Of course I'm wrong in your eyes. That is true of most malignant narcissists like you. And by "what I do" I assume you are trying to impress us that you know more about things than the FBI, etc. I think what you do is spend a lot of time on message boards. I think many posters here have you pegged.

Can you send me any open source intel that Syed Farook exhibited signs at work of being a mass murderer? Or were you specifically referring to his name...Syed Farook.

[quietfan 233]

I'd like to know what the motive was. Word is now at the couple were thrown a baby shower at the workplace. Yet another instance where we show hospitality and open arms and get treated like this.

He was an American citizen. What are you driving at?

His wife was from Saudi Arabia, and may not have been a citizen. There still is some confusion about that. That is what I'm driving at.

was he born here, or was he a naturalized citizen?

Just for clarification:

http://www.nbcnews.c...grandma-n473261

U.S.-born Syed Rizwan Farook, 28, and wife Tashfeen Malik, 27, were killed in a shootout with police more than four hours after the rampage at the Inland Regional Center in San Bernardino, California, on Wednesday.

...

Farook traveled to Saudi Arabia two years ago. Authorities believe, based on the timing, that the trip was for the hajj, the pilgrimage that devout Muslims are required to do at one point in their lives. The officials believe Farook met Malik there, and then brought her back to the U.S.

Malik was a naturalized Pakistani-American citizen who arrived in the U.S. on a K-1 or fiancee visa. She achieved American citizenship by virtue of her marriage to Farook two years ago.

So not exactly a case of us magnanimously showing "hospitality and open arms" to poorly vetted or questionable status foreigners. One was a native born citizen. The other, of Pakistani descent, followed proper legal channels to join her spouse and opted for US citizenship rather than permanent resident/"Green Card" status.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

Does Syed Farook sound like an ordinary guy with a workplace problem?

Yes.

Turns out you were dead WRONG as is often the case.

I was not wrong. Go look at the comments from his co-workers.

I'm listening to info the FBI is talking about.

Well then post them here and let's have a look. And by "I have other ways" I can only assume you are trying to impress us that you know more tan the FBI, et. al.

You should watch the news.

Nah, that's trash. I have other ways.

So in other words, you are wrong. Syed was a quiet co worker who didn't exhibit any tell tell signs that he was about to go on a massive shooting spree. Wait. It's the name you're referring to? Syed Farook.

Of course I'm wrong in your eyes. That is true of most malignant narcissists like you. And by "what I do" I assume you are trying to impress us that you know more about things than the FBI, etc. I think what you do is spend a lot of time on message boards. I think many posters here have you pegged.

Can you send me any open source intel that Syed Farook exhibited signs at work of being a mass murderer? Or were you specifically referring to his name...Syed Farook.

I never said he exhibited any signs at work. This pretty well summarizes what is in the media, but the FBI has added a little more info this morning that I have no link to.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/03/us/what-we-know-san-bernardino-mass-shooting/index.html

Ordinary people with a workplace grudge don't have the kind of stuff he had in his home.

[AUUSN 823]

I never said he exhibited any signs at work. This pretty well summarizes what is in the media, but the FBI has added a little more info this morning that I have no link to.

http://www.cnn.com/2...ting/index.html

Ordinary people with a workplace grudge don't have the kind of stuff he had in his home.

You said: "Does Syed Farook sound like an ordinary guy with a workplace problem?" To which I replied yes. You then said I was wrong.

How was I wrong.

[AU_Tiger_88 417]

Serious Question: How many times has an armed citizen stopped one of these mass murders?

that is a statistic that isn't kept or hard to find...it doesn't fit the agenda...

Yet traffic deaths are relevant? :-\

they are just as relevant to the discussion that is being put out by those that want to curtail the buying of guns to the general populace. There are many people crying out in the media for politicians to do something...but yet do not articulate what they want to be done. We have plenty of laws on the books but yet every time there is one of these incidents it gets into the same debate and ausn throws up a stupid graphic...not many want to put forth something that we can debate about. And if a person throws out close the loopholes and are asked which ones in particular, you are vilified or presumed ignorant because a question is asked but there are state dependant loopholes on gun laws. I have seen Florida's laws disparaged on this board but that law has also saved lives not that it gets but a blip on the nightly news down here. So traffic is a relevant statistic because if ausn can throw up a chart on gun deaths there are still more people killed in auto accidents each day than are with guns...so where is the outcry on that?

Right.

Mass shootings : Statistics on mass shootings = Mass shootings : Statistics on transportation fatalities

Sorry, but that dog won't hunt.

so put forth some solutions to the problem or do you think there is a problem with guns?

Well, the statistics would suggest that the United States has a problem with excessive gun deaths in general and mass shooting sprees in particular. Which statistics? THe ones that include suicides?

I don't really see a solution other than to re-interpret (regarding militias) or repeal the 2nd amendment and institute gun laws that would prohibit ownership or possession of military-purposed weapons. All weapons could be considered Military-purposed i.e. 9mm handguns are issued in the military but yet people are allowed to own them. I disagree with removing the 2nd amendment.

But certainly we could pass some common sense restrictions immediately, such as prohibiting persons on the terrorist watch list or persons arrested for domestic abuse from buying guns. So if your two suggestions were implemented how many of these shootings would have been curtailed? Most likely none....

[AU_Tiger_88 417]

So for all of you who are clamoring about the politicians should do something....well what do you say about more people die in vehicle related accidents. Here is an article that is interesting to read. Now if you take suicides out of the statistics (the reason you would take it out is because people who decide to kill themselves would find another way to do it without a gun if they were banned). So why aren't you clamoring about not letting teens drive? Where are the charts ausn? You put up ones about guns but where is the same for motor vehicles? Reason: people believe vehicles are needed and those are typically accidents with a few exceptions...well guns are tools also and like any tool can be used to kill people. However, if you wanted to commit mass murder it isn't that hard to carry out...bombs can be made easily enough to kill many people...what is it (that those of you who want something done) want done? I am tired of people calling for something to be done but yet fail to explain what they want done....why because they probably don't know nor do they really know if it would make a difference....

here are some more stats

Annual United States Road Crash Statistics

• Over 37,000 people die in road crashes each year
  
• An additional 2.35 million are injured or disabled
  
• Over 1,600 children under 15 years of age die each year
  
• Nearly 8,000 people are killed in crashes involving drivers ages 16-20
  
• Road crashes cost the U.S. $230.6 billion per year, or an average of $820 per person
  

I knew this post was coming.

but yet you have no answers or discussions about it but to post graphics about people dying in multiples....you have put forth no real solutions that you can debate but hide behind stupid cartoons and other things that bring no real substance but myrth only to you or those like you. You hint that you supposedly have this insight but offer nothing to the conversation and in military related threads imply that you have a greater understanding than the rest of us, you throw out that you have security clearance like that means something. What you fail to understand is that there are others on here that have clearances, have served in combat and have planned more than just tactical missions but whole campaigns but don't let that stop you...please by all means put up another one of your stupid cartoons or graphs and have yourself a big laugh...

You sound really mad.

The assault rifle meant for military and police is currently terrorizing the population. There's no need for someone to own that type of weapon. Period. That is your opinion....an AR-15 can be a good hunting rifle so can a 30-06 but I can take either and make them into an assault weapon with a little machining...so congress has made a ban on certain weapons based upon looks...so I change the look and still have the same weapon. I don't think it is a problem for people to own AR-15's nor hunting rifles...So your statement about the assault rifle is totally incorrect and statistics don't back you up...there are more people killed with handguns vice assault rifles in this country...even when you take out suicides...mainly in the 16-24 year old male population which ties more directly into gang violence...or violence in general...

[TitanTiger 20,510]

What would one hunt with an AR-15? Honest question, not being a smart ass.

[AURaptor 1,126]

Wifey was Pakistani too, it seems, if I heard the presser correctly . Trip to SA seems to be jihad training.

And the pipe bomb discoveries snuffs out any / all talk of a need for more gun control laws.