TitanTiger 20,506 Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 No "he said/she said" on this. Trump is on tape saying the opposite of what he was telling us in his briefings. He knew it was more deadly and spread more easily than even the most "strenuous flus", and he knew it wasn't just old people that were at risk. https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/09/politics/bob-woodward-rage-book-trump-coronavirus/index.html Of course given Mikey's answer last night on the Trump military comments, I suppose unless he's caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy, no one will ditch him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_ATX 13,654 Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 I'm waiting for the inevitable "CNN is fake news" without realizing it's on tape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McLoofus 35,182 Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 Side note: Any reason that "eff you Bob Woodward for holding onto this info while Americans kept dying" isn't on the table? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,506 Posted September 9, 2020 Author Share Posted September 9, 2020 29 minutes ago, McLoofus said: Side note: Any reason that "eff you Bob Woodward for holding onto this info while Americans kept dying" isn't on the table? None that I can think of. I saw someone point that out on Twitter and I was like, "yeah, that's effed up." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_ATX 13,654 Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 55 minutes ago, McLoofus said: Side note: Any reason that "eff you Bob Woodward for holding onto this info while Americans kept dying" isn't on the table? Well think about it like this. Woodward got on the record interviews with Trump up through July. He would have likely lost that access if this had come out earlier. We learned more by allowing him to do these interviews longer. Ultimately, it's not Bob Woodward's job to protect American lives. It's Trump's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McLoofus 35,182 Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 17 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said: Well think about it like this. Woodward got on the record interviews with Trump up through July. He would have likely lost that access if this had come out earlier. We learned more by allowing him to do these interviews longer. Ultimately, it's not Bob Woodward's job to protect American lives. It's Trump's. I'm not compelled by the second argument, but the first one is a very good point. And, trust me, I don't want to shoot the messenger. But I also can't absolve a guy of holding onto information that could save lives in order to sell more books. Not saying that's what happened and am honestly seeking thoughts such as yours. I do hope this info does some good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKW 86 7,437 Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 Just curious, but has the name of this thread changed 2X? Tapes change to Book? and then back to tapes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFAN78 3,926 Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 5 hours ago, TitanTiger said: No "he said/she said" on this. Trump is on tape saying the opposite of what he was telling us in his briefings. He knew it was more deadly and spread more easily than even the most "strenuous flus", and he knew it wasn't just old people that were at risk. https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/09/politics/bob-woodward-rage-book-trump-coronavirus/index.html Of course given Mikey's answer last night on the Trump military comments, I suppose unless he's caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy, no one will ditch him. I think roughly half of the country will see this story and the military comments as election time politics. Nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToraGirl 5,498 Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 1 minute ago, AUFAN78 said: I think roughly half of the country will see this story and the military comments as election time politics. Nothing more. Think the real stories of real, ordinary people whose voices don't usually get covered in the mainstream will continue to influence. Also think present "peaceful protests" are their own worst commercial, esp. as compared to something done or said years ago by either candidate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_ATX 13,654 Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 3 hours ago, ToraGirl said: Think the real stories of real, ordinary people whose voices don't usually get covered in the mainstream will continue to influence. Also think present "peaceful protests" are their own worst commercial, esp. as compared to something done or said years ago by either candidate. The pandemic is very much a current topic and, according to all polling, is the #1 issue on American minds. The President may have said this earlier in the year, but we're still dealing with the by-product. The revelations today couldn't be more salient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,506 Posted September 10, 2020 Author Share Posted September 10, 2020 11 hours ago, AUFAN78 said: I think roughly half of the country will see this story and the military comments as election time politics. Nothing more. Then half the country has given itself a frontal lobotomy. Regardless of the timing of the tape coming out, he said what he said. He lied and blatantly misrepresented the seriousness of a pandemic-causing illness. If you just write that off as "politics," you're a sucker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,506 Posted September 10, 2020 Author Share Posted September 10, 2020 11 hours ago, ToraGirl said: Think the real stories of real, ordinary people whose voices don't usually get covered in the mainstream will continue to influence. Also think present "peaceful protests" are their own worst commercial, esp. as compared to something done or said years ago by either candidate. This is hand-waving and gesticulating to ignore the bleeding obvious. And it wasn't years ago. It was just a few short months ago as this pandemic started. Our president was blatantly lying to us about the seriousness of the virus because, as per usual, all things matter to him only so far as they can benefit or harm him personally or professionally. He couldn't give a tinker's damn about you, me, or anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McLoofus 35,182 Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 This is "politics"? This is just "comments made years ago"? Jesus Christ, you people need to do some soul-searching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,506 Posted September 10, 2020 Author Share Posted September 10, 2020 What really gets me about this is that it’s one thing to think Trump had an overly optimistic view and that he believed the more rosy projections over the more dire ones from a genuine belief. It’s misguided or even delusional but at least it’s somewhat honest. But what these tapes reveal is that Trump actually knew and believed the truth about this virus. He understood and believed it was far more serious, infectious, and deadly than any flu we’ve seen in our lifetimes. But he then went out and purposely lied, minimized it, and gaslighted us. The same month he was telling Woodward these things he told a rally crowd in SC that it was basically a hoax. That’s cynical. He believed in how terrible it was and lied to our faces over a deadly illness because once again, things only matter to him insofar as they will benefit or harm him personally. It’s an election year so he lied for his own reelection prospects. It's disgusting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McLoofus 35,182 Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 And I will say it one more time. The "panic" excuse is total, utter and complete bull****. The man has shifted his entire campaign to fomenting panic over isolated incidents of violence in a handful of locations that amount to absolutely nothing in terms of national concern. To the point that people are bringing it up as a straw man in response to his abject failure to address a health crisis that is still killing over 1,000 Americans a week. He could have saved tens of thousands of lives at least. He didn't, for strictly political reasons. Oh, also, about that panic he didn't induce. The economy still shut down. (It wouldn't have had to if he'd simply mandated masks and ramped up testing and contact tracing.) People still couldn't find masks, toilet paper or hand sanitizer. The health systems were and are still inundated. You're choosing to believe his lies. You know you are. Why? At what cost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,410 Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 Should Bob Woodward have reported Trump’s virus revelations sooner? Here’s how he defends his decision. Margaret Sullivan Media columnist September 9, 2020 Two waves of outrage greeted the news on Wednesday of Bob Woodward’s latest White House chronicle, a book titled “Rage.” The first was Trump’s disclosure to Woodward that he knew as early as February — even as he was dismissing the novel coronavirus publicly — that the looming pandemic was far deadlier than the flu. The second was that Woodward, long associated with The Washington Post, didn’t reveal this to the public sooner. The fact that this second outrage mostly circulated among journalists talking to one another made it no less furious: If the famous Watergate reporter knew that Trump was lying to the public about a matter of life and death, why didn’t he reveal it immediately? Woodward is hardly the first journalist to save juicy information for a book. But “is this traditional practice still ethical?” tweeted David Boardman, dean of the Temple University journalism school and the longtime editor of the Seattle Times. Other critics were less circumspect: “This is really troubling. As journalists we’re supposed to work in the public interest. I think there’s been a failure here,” wrote Scott Nover, a reporter for the industry journal Adweek. In fairness, it wasn’t just journalists raising concerns. A reader wrote to me arguing that Woodward’s revelation “could have been helpful in the spring, both explaining the seriousness of the disease to the public, showing the Trump administration’s bungled and inept response, and pushing the Trump administration to do more.” He added, with a touch of cynicism, that he hoped the author’s advance fee made the delay worthwhile. The questions are valid — and as Boardman notes, far from new. They surface almost every time a journalist writes a book that contains newsy information, especially about matters of national security or public well-being: Why are we only reading about this now? As recently as last week, New York Times reporter Michael Schmidt was criticized for withholding some meaty revelations for his book about the investigation into Trump’s ties to Russia and the Robert S. Mueller III investigation. “It is not immediately entirely clear why these reports, many dating back as far as three years, made it into the pages of Schmidt’s book rather than the subscription-based newspaper that employs him,” wrote Roger Sollenberger in Salon. I took the questions and complaints to Woodward, who initially was reluctant to speak on the record until after a “60 Minutes” segment airs on Sunday because he had promised the publisher and CBS not to give any interviews until then. But because my questions were about process, rather than the content of the book, he agreed to address the ethical issues. Woodward told me that — contrary to speculation — he did not have any signed agreement or formal embargo arrangement with Trump or the White House to hold back their conversations until the book published. “I told him it was for the book,” he said — but as far as promising not to publish in real time, or signing such an agreement, “I don’t do that.” Woodward said his aim was to provide a fuller context than could occur in a news story: “I knew I could tell the second draft of history, and I knew I could tell it before the election.” (Former Washington Post publisher Phil Graham famously called journalism “the first rough draft of history.”) What’s more, he said, there were at least two problems with what he heard from Trump in February that kept him from putting it in the newspaper at the time: First, he didn’t know what the source of Trump’s information was. It wasn’t until months later — in May — that Woodward learned it came from a high-level intelligence briefing in January that was also described in Wednesday’s reporting about the book. In February, what Trump told Woodward seemed hard to make sense of, the author told me — back then, Woodward said, there was no panic over the virus; even toward the final days of that month, Anthony S. Fauci was publicly assuring Americans there was no need to change their daily habits. Second, Woodward said, “the biggest problem I had, which is always a problem with Trump, is I didn’t know if it was true.” Trump spoke with Woodward on more than a dozen occasions, and in some cases, “he started calling me at night.” It took months, Woodward told me, to do the reporting that put it all in context, which is what he believes his mission as an author is: “My job is to understand it, and to hold him accountable, and to hold myself accountable.” He added: “I did the best I could” toward those ends. But why not then write such a story later in the spring, once it was clear that the virus was extraordinarily destructive and that Trump’s early downplaying had almost certainly cost lives? Again, Woodward said he believes his highest purpose isn’t to write daily stories but to give his readers the big picture — one that may have a greater effect, especially with a consequential election looming. Woodward’s effort, he said, was to deliver in book form “the best obtainable version of the truth,” not to rush individual revelations into publication. And always with a particular deadline in mind, so that people could read, absorb and make their judgments well before Nov. 3. “The demarcation is the election.” Woodward, despite his longtime association with The Post, is no longer a Post employee, though he maintains an affiliation and the honorific title of associate editor. He’s no longer in the daily journalism business. The Post, like CNN, received the book galleys only recently, so that it could ready today’s article based on the book. I don’t know if putting the book’s newsiest revelations out there in something closer to real time would have made a difference. They might very well have been denied and soon forgotten in the constant rush of new scandals and lies. Still, the chance — even if it’s a slim chance — that those revelations could have saved lives is a powerful argument against waiting this long. https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/media/should-bob-woodward-have-reported-trumps-virus-revelations-sooner-heres-how-he-defends-his-decision/2020/09/09/6bd7fc32-f2d1-11ea-b796-2dd09962649c_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-high_sullivan-620pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShocksMyBrain 9,368 Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 38 minutes ago, McLoofus said: Oh, also, about that panic he didn't induce. The economy still shut down. (It wouldn't have had to if he'd simply mandated masks and ramped up testing and contact tracing.) People still couldn't find masks, toilet paper or hand sanitizer. The health systems were and are still inundated. I was going to say, “so, you’re telling me it would’ve been even harder to find[the items you mentioned]?”. People panicked pretty hard around my parts. Glad we didn’t experience a real panic. 🙄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,410 Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 1 hour ago, TitanTiger said: What really gets me about this is that it’s one thing to think Trump had an overly optimistic view and that he believed the more rosy projections over the more dire ones from a genuine belief. It’s misguided or even delusional but at least it’s somewhat honest. But what these tapes reveal is that Trump actually knew and believed the truth about this virus. He understood and believed it was far more serious, infectious, and deadly than any flu we’ve seen in our lifetimes. But he then went out and purposely lied, minimized it, and gaslighted us. The same month he was telling Woodward these things he told a rally crowd in SC that it was basically a hoax. That’s cynical. He believed in how terrible it was and lied to our faces over a deadly illness because once again, things only matter to him insofar as they will benefit or harm him personally. It’s an election year so he lied for his own reelection prospects. It's disgusting. I think his response throughout was ultimately designed to avoid and deflect personal responsibility. He deliberately made it each governor's problem. And like you said, everything he said or did was done with the goal of getting himself re-elected, the American people be damned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,410 Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, ShocksMyBrain said: I was going to say, “so, you’re telling me it would’ve been even harder to find[the items you mentioned]?”. People panicked pretty hard around my parts. Glad we didn’t experience a real panic. 🙄 Are you seriously defending Trump's excuse for gaslighting the country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McLoofus 35,182 Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 1 minute ago, homersapien said: Are you seriously defending Trump's excuse for gaslighting the country? It was sarcasm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McLoofus 35,182 Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 30 minutes ago, homersapien said: I don’t know if putting the book’s newsiest revelations out there in something closer to real time would have made a difference. They might very well have been denied and soon forgotten in the constant rush of new scandals and lies. For those that didn't read the article, this isn't Woodward's quote or opinion, but that of the author. But I think it's an important quote, in several ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShocksMyBrain 9,368 Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 2 hours ago, homersapien said: Are you seriously defending Trump's excuse for gaslighting the country? Uh no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUEngineer2016 407 Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 Trump: "I downplayed the virus to prevent a panic" Also Trump: "ANTIFA IS COMING TO BURN DOWN YOUR SUBURBS!!! AND REMEMBER THAT CARAVAN THAT WAS COMING FOR THE BORDER??? BIDEN IS GOING TO TURN AMERICA SOCIALIST!!!!" Here's a timeline. Any Trump supporters want to defend this? January 22: “We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. It’s going to be just fine.” February 2: “We pretty much shut it down coming in from China.” February 5: HHS Secretary Azar requested $2 billion to buy respirator masks & other supplies for the national stockpile Trump cut that request by 75% February 24: “The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA… Stock Market starting to look very good to me!” February 25: “CDC and my Administration are doing a GREAT job of handling Coronavirus.” February 25: “I think that's a problem that’s going to go away… They have studied it. They know very much. In fact, we’re very close to a vaccine.” February 26: “The 15 (cases in the US) within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero.” February 26: “We're going very substantially down, not up.” February 27: “One day it’s like a miracle, it will disappear.” February 28: “We're ordering a lot of supplies. We're ordering a lot of, uh, elements that frankly we wouldn't be ordering unless it was something like this. But we're ordering a lot of different elements of medical.” March 2: “You take a solid flu vaccine, you don't think that could have an impact, or much of an impact, on corona?” March 4: “If we have thousands or hundreds of thousands of people that get better just by, you know, sitting around and even going to work — some of them go to work, but they get better.” March 5: “I NEVER said people that are feeling sick should go to work.” March 5: “The United States… has, as of now, only 129 cases… and 11 deaths. We are working very hard to keep these numbers as low as possible!” March 6: “I think we’re doing a really good job in this country at keeping it down… a tremendous job at keeping it down.” March 6: “Anybody right now, and yesterday, anybody that needs a test gets a test. They’re there. And the tests are beautiful…. the tests are all perfect like the letter was perfect. The transcription was perfect. Right? This was not as perfect as that but pretty good.” March 6: “I like this stuff. I really get it. People are surprised that I understand it… Every one of these doctors said, ‘How do you know so much about this?’ Maybe I have a natural ability. Maybe I should have done that instead of running for president.” March 6: “I don't need to have the numbers double because of one ship that wasn't our fault.” March 8: “We have a perfectly coordinated and fine tuned plan at the White House for our attack on CoronaVirus.” March 9: “This blindsided the world.” March 9: "The Fake News Media and their partner, the Democrat Party, is doing everything within its semi-considerable power (it used to be greater!) to inflame the CoronaVirus situation, far beyond what the facts would warrant.” March 10: "It will go away. Just stay calm. It will go away." March 13: National Emergency Declaration March 15: "It's a very contagious virus. It's incredible. But it's something we have tremendous control of." March 19: "And we’re going to be able to make that drug available almost immediately, and that’s where the FDA has been so great. They — they’ve gone through the approval process. It’s been approved." March 19: FDA "Chrloroquine has not been approved for use against COVID-19." March 23rd: "You look at automobile accidents, which are far greater than any numbers we're talking about. That doesn't mean we're going to tell everybody no more driving of cars. So we have to do things to get our country open." (Fatal car accidents aren't doubling every two days) April 23rd: "So suppose we hit the body with a tremendous... whether it's ultraviolet or just very powerful light. Suppose we brought the light inside the body either through the skin or some other way. And then I see the disinfectant knocks it out in a minute. (Turns to ask medical professional) Is there a way we can do something like that...by injection inside...almost a cleaning. Because you see it gets on the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs so it would be interesting to check that." USA is 4% of the Earth's population. US is 25% of the Earth's deaths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToraGirl 5,498 Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 14 hours ago, TitanTiger said: This is hand-waving and gesticulating to ignore the bleeding obvious. And it wasn't years ago. It was just a few short months ago as this pandemic started. Our president was blatantly lying to us about the seriousness of the virus because, as per usual, all things matter to him only so far as they can benefit or harm him personally or professionally. He couldn't give a tinker's damn about you, me, or anyone else. Titan, I don't have your faith or confidence to think that one man's deeds and misdeeds obscure the big picture of life as we know it in America. I just don't. The big picture is filled with details of overcoming that add up to more than the sum of their parts. Come November 3, let the people decide...and let us hope that it's done with as much honesty and accuracy--for the sake of both sides and any in the middle--as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasTiger 12,974 Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 3 hours ago, ToraGirl said: Titan, I don't have your faith or confidence to think that one man's deeds and misdeeds obscure the big picture of life as we know it in America. I just don't. The big picture is filled with details of overcoming that add up to more than the sum of their parts. Come November 3, let the people decide...and let us hope that it's done with as much honesty and accuracy--for the sake of both sides and any in the middle--as possible. What does that even mean in relation to what Titan said? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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