Ryan Pugh

[McLoofus 35,182]

8 minutes ago, jAUSon said:

Nope. Not a breathing person on the planet saya that

Um, feel free to say that about people participating in this conversation, but there are a shitload more than just one breathing person on the planet saying that and much worse. 

It's actually shocking if you actually believe what you typed. 

[cole256 17,084]

7 minutes ago, autigeremt said:

Seems to be a two way street in today's climate, cole. I surely don't condone people using other races as a way to take shots at others but if you are fair about it you can see how this thing isn't always about racism, a racist act or even a shot at blacks, whites....whatever. But if you want it to be......it is. 

Lol I don't even know what you are talking about. I was talking about this stuff. And that's the other messed up thing. Then you have the people that aren't racist but won't step up and call out the racist stuff and when you are calling out the racist stuff they want to interject and say well you guys are racist too! They don't want to x talk about what was done in the past and that's why the present is so messed up. 

Use an example what are you talking about specifically because I know you don't want to hear my side

[cole256 17,084]

12 minutes ago, jAUSon said:

Nope. Not a breathing person on the planet saya that

Lol. It's all in my head right? Black people just lie and make up stuff about racism huh

[wdefromtx 3,159]

5 minutes ago, cole256 said:

So if you studied it then you would know if it was racist or not and why it is or isn't and you would see that even though you thought this was a hard or similar question it really is not. 

Like I said if a guy had a swastika tattoo on himself I know what I'm going to think and I'm not going to have to talk to him or get to know him to think it. And the person with the tat knows as well it's what he wanted.

It's a reason he wouldn't do that at a party full of black people

Now you are dodging all my questions. Is Jimmy Fallon a racist? Is my friend racist? These are simple yes or no questions and the fact that you won't come out and answer either one of them is very telling.  Is Robert Downey Jr. racist for his Tropic Thunder role?

 

Quit trying to apply a double standard. Technically both have roots with a racial connotation, but you should know that right?

[TigerHorn 1,353]

It seems that Baylor, and many of you, are not familiar with the concept of original sin and forgiveness. They might as well just go ahead and drop that association with the Baptists. Sorry some of you are so bitter.

I wonder what the reaction of Pugh's teammates of both colors are? 

[cole256 17,084]

6 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Now you are dodging all my questions. Is Jimmy Fallon a racist? Is my friend racist? These are simple yes or no questions and the fact that you won't come out and answer either one of them is very telling.  Is Robert Downey Jr. racist for his Tropic Thunder role?

 

Quit trying to apply a double standard. Technically both have roots with a racial connotation, but you should know that right?

What I was doing was having a convo but I guess this was your attempt to bully me into saying something you want me to say. I'm pretty sure you knew you weren't able to do that before you wrote me though. 

[metafour 4,969]

1 hour ago, Brad_ATX said:

Blackface is wrong and a racist gesture.  Actions have consequences.  How is this debatable again?

But that's the thing; it actually DEPENDS if it has "consequences" or not. Which is where this entire topic becomes clearly driven by politics. If blackface has consequences, then why is Justin Trudeau still the Prime Minister of Canada? He did the exact same thing that Ryan Pugh just got fired for. Or are we going to now claim that there is a higher moral standard for being a football coach than there is for running a country? If anything, I can guarantee you that Ryan Pugh has considerably more contact on a daily basis with black people than Trudeau does - which means that it would be incredibly easy to "fact check" to see if he's actually racist or not (I'd be willing to bet that he isn't, and it was just a stupid costume that he obviously shouldn't have worn).

[McLoofus 35,182]

3 minutes ago, TigerHorn said:

It seems that Baylor, and many of you, are not familiar with the concept of original sin and forgiveness

What they are familiar with is that they don't need to hire this guy to coach their black players because they can absolutely find someone else to coach offensive linemen. Some dude from Troy in his early 30s isn't some irreplaceable superstar in the business. Why deal with the baggage? It's a business decision, and a very understandable one. 

5 minutes ago, TigerHorn said:

I wonder what the reaction of Pugh's teammates of both colors are? 

That's a fair question IMO.

 

[wdefromtx 3,159]

4 minutes ago, cole256 said:

What I was doing was having a convo but I guess this was your attempt to bully me into saying something you want me to say. I'm pretty sure you knew you weren't able to do that before you wrote me though. 

Nope just asking a simple question. I just would like to know why you can't answer? But we already know don't we?

 

BTW, it isn't bullying you. It is calling you out for not answering a few simple questions. 

[cole256 17,084]

That's the other thing that's funny to me.....not only people trying to pretend there's nothing wrong with it they are saying he should go be the coach of a sport that I'm guessing but I'd guess 90% black. So not only is it not a big deal but let's just make an absolute mockery of everything

[ScotsAU 1,336]

First off, blackface is never okay. There’s a horribly racist history behind blackface. Those trying to minimize what he did here are in the wrong. 
 

That said, this doesn’t necessarily mean he’s racist. I think I was in college when I learned about the horribly history of blackface. I never used it, but I also didn’t know it was offensive until at least a year or so into college. Society has changed a lot in the last 10 years, and issues like this one just weren’t as discussed back then. It’s legitimately possible that he didn’t know that you shouldn’t do this.

[metafour 4,969]

1 hour ago, cole256 said:

Yeah man great point! Black face isn't racist at all. Or maybe those of you that don't understand black face and where it originated could maybe research it before you try to justify it

Cole, I've agreed with you a lot lately, but if you actually knew the history of blackface then you would know that it is a dicey topic at best. Al Jolson, the "King of Blackface", was a legitimate champion of black culture - as per the recollection of actual black people and performers of the time who knew and interacted with him. Al Jolson legitimized jazz and black entertainers into mainstream white American culture back when that was unheard of. I realize that the norm now is to rewrite history as you see fit; but it's quite fallacious to speak on behalf of black people who actually lived in the era of legitimate racism. There were quite clearly racist blackface performances, and there were blackface performances which were the exact opposite (like Al Jolson). This is a very "touchy" subject for modern black people because it requires the admission that the majority of black Americans at the time actually supported SOME of these performances.

[homersapien 11,388]

40 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Nope just asking a simple question. I just would like to know why you can't answer? But we already know don't we?

 

BTW, it isn't bullying you. It is calling you out for not answering a few simple questions. 

Well allow me to jump in since this is so important for you:

No, putting on whiteface is not racist. 

First - and most obviously - clowns are not a race.  Secondly, clowns have not endured over 400 years of slavery and oppression and prejudice in this country based on the color of their skin.  Thirdly, there is no history of people denigrating clowns by mimickng their appearance with whiteface.

(Of course, you can simply substitute "white people" for "clowns" in the above.)

Hope that helps!

 

[wdefromtx 3,159]

 

 

9 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Well allow me to jump in since this is so important for you:

No, putting on whiteface is not racist. 

First - and most obviously - clowns are not a race.  Secondly, clowns have not endured over 400 years of slavery and oppression and prejudice in this country based on the color of their skin.  Thirdly, there is no history of people denigrating clowns by mimickng their appearance with whiteface.

(Of course, you can simply substitute "white people" for "clowns" in the above.)

Hope that helps!

 

So is Jimmy Fallon racist?

Is Robert Downey Junior racist?

Is Nick Cannon racist?

How about Dave Chappelle?

 

Because it was previously stated in here that if you wear blackface it is racist, apparently regardless of the purpose of wearing it. So that takes out the history behind it. So I am just curious if you take the history out of it then can you answer the above 4 questions?

[cole256 17,084]

5 minutes ago, metafour said:

Cole, I've agreed with you a lot lately, but if you actually knew the history of blackface then you would know that it is a dicey topic at best. Al Jolson, the "King of Blackface", was a legitimate champion of black culture - as per the recollection of actual black people and performers of the time who knew and interacted with him. Al Jolson legitimized jazz and black entertainers into mainstream white American culture back when that was unheard of. I realize that the norm now is to rewrite history as you see fit; but it's quite fallacious to speak on behalf of black people who actually lived in the era of legitimate racism. There were quite clearly racist blackface performances, and there were blackface performances which were the exact opposite (like Al Jolson). This is a very "touchy" subject for modern black people because it requires the admission that the majority of black Americans at the time actually supported SOME of these performances.

Black face originated from when white people told stories of course slavescouldn't act they were beasts so actors would use black face. But it wasn't even just that they would exaggerate features. Then as time passed it went that if it was a big role then you had to do black face because blacks couldn't do it. And they made sure to do all the stereotypes as far as being lazy and dumb and all of that.

So yeah time progresses and black people do it, at first they weren't allowed to do anything. Just like witch so many other things black people took a negative towards them and they tried to make it better but to say it's touchy because some black people supported it isn't the case at all. It was the only way for blacks to be in the entertainment industry so they did it. It's not like they could do whatever they wanted and they chose it. And yes blacks supported each other. 

And yeah you're right that the norm now is people try to rewrite history. Try to make some things seem not so bad. Try to leave out vile things. No different than how nobody wants to talk about racism now in the present. 

[cole256 17,084]

1 minute ago, wdefromtx said:

 

 

So is Jimmy Fallon racist?

Is Robert Downey Junior racist?

Is Nick Cannon racist?

How about Dave Chappelle?

 

Because it was previously stated in here that if you wear blackface it is racist, apparently regardless of the purpose of wearing it. So that takes out the history behind it. So I am just curious if you take the history out of it then can you answer the above 4 questions?

This is almost the equivalent of asking if you guys use the word how come it's racist if I use it

[ScotsAU 1,336]

3 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

 

 

So is Jimmy Fallon racist?

Is Robert Downey Junior racist?

Is Nick Cannon racist?

How about Dave Chappelle?

 

Because it was previously stated in here that if you wear blackface it is racist, apparently regardless of the purpose of wearing it. So that takes out the history behind it. So I am just curious if you take the history out of it then can you answer the above 4 questions?

Fallon has since apologized for that sketch. FYI.

[AUght2win 6,851]

8 hours ago, Tigerpro2a said:

society just decided it was racist asking with everything else. 

This shows you don't know what tf you are talking about. You don't know anything about minstrel shows or Al Jolson. It wasn't something randomly decided. 

Learn to look outside your own world and do some research. 

[AUght2win 6,851]

7 hours ago, Tigerpro2a said:

how is dressing up in costume comparable to those heinous acts?

It's trivializing those things, clearly.. Good grief are you that unempathetic???

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

1 hour ago, metafour said:

But that's the thing; it actually DEPENDS if it has "consequences" or not. Which is where this entire topic becomes clearly driven by politics. If blackface has consequences, then why is Justin Trudeau still the Prime Minister of Canada? He did the exact same thing that Ryan Pugh just got fired for. Or are we going to now claim that there is a higher moral standard for being a football coach than there is for running a country? If anything, I can guarantee you that Ryan Pugh has considerably more contact on a daily basis with black people than Trudeau does - which means that it would be incredibly easy to "fact check" to see if he's actually racist or not (I'd be willing to bet that he isn't, and it was just a stupid costume that he obviously shouldn't have worn).

I don't give Trudeau a pass for it either.  But his consequences are up to the people of Canada.  The consequences in Pugh's case were up to the administration at Baylor.  I'm not going to feel bad for the guy.

[AUght2win 6,851]

5 hours ago, AubieinNC2009 said:

First off this was 2010 before people were freaking out over it.  2nd I guess Joy Behar should be fired and any other actor who played a black person.  While we are at it, lets go attack the Wayans brothers for dressing up as white chicks, and any little kid who ever dressed up as an Indian during Halloween, Thanksgiving, or play time.  Lets go a head and remove Biden as he was best friends with a KKK leader.

People change, so me something recant from Pugh that he should be judge on not something from his college days that at the time was not a big deal.

You do understand that Mikey and others are arguing there's nothing wrong with blackface, right? You do understand that's a totally different conversation than cancel culture, right?

I don't support cancel culture. But good GRIEF you guys are creeping me out going to bat on behalf of the practice of blackface. 

[metafour 4,969]

2 minutes ago, cole256 said:

Black face originated from when white people told stories of course slavescouldn't act they were beasts so actors would use black face. But it wasn't even just that they would exaggerate features. Then as time passed it went that if it was a big role then you had to do black face because blacks couldn't do it. And they made sure to do all the stereotypes as far as being lazy and dumb and all of that.

So yeah time progresses and black people do it, at first they weren't allowed to do anything. Just like witch so many other things black people took a negative towards them and they tried to make it better but to say it's touchy because some black people supported it isn't the case at all. It was the only way for blacks to be in the entertainment industry so they did it. It's not like they could do whatever they wanted and they chose it. And yes blacks supported each other. 

And yeah you're right that the norm now is people try to rewrite history. Try to make some things seem not so bad. Try to leave out vile things. No different than how nobody wants to talk about racism now in the present. 

So you didn't really counter anything I said.

Al Jolson was a Jewish white guy who loved jazz music in a time wherein it was inappropriate for white people to listen to jazz music. His blackface performances had nothing to do with belittling black people or jazz music, in fact, it was the exact opposite. He championed black culture and black performers of the era in a time wherein there was clear segregation. As stupid as it sounds, his blackface performances were groundbreaking in showing that BLACK CULTURE could also be AMERICAN CULTURE.

So how can you seriously sit there and state that "all blackface is a form of racism" when the actual history proves that to be complete bull****? Al Jolson was fighting for "black rights" back when it was actually inconceivable for a white person to do so. He was beloved by black people of the era, and you can find pages and pages of evidence of that. When he died, his funeral service was lined with black performers who were paying their respects. Are we to pretend now that it was all some elaborate ploy the whole time? 

[cole256 17,084]

2 minutes ago, metafour said:

So you didn't really counter anything I said.

Al Jolson was a Jewish white guy who loved jazz music in a time wherein it was inappropriate for white people to listen to jazz music. His blackface performances had nothing to do with belittling black people or jazz music, in fact, it was the exact opposite. He championed black culture and black performers of the era in a time wherein there was clear segregation. As stupid as it sounds, his blackface performances were groundbreaking in showing that BLACK CULTURE could also be AMERICAN CULTURE.

So how can you seriously sit there and state that "all blackface is a form of racism" when the actual history proves that to be complete bull****? Al Jolson was fighting for "black rights" back when it was actually inconceivable for a white person to do so. He was beloved by black people of the era, and you can find pages and pages of evidence of that. When he died, his funeral service was lined with black performers who were paying their respects. Are we to pretend now that it was all some elaborate ploy the whole time? 

You may not feel like I countered what you said but I feel like I did that and then more. But what I really don't understand is you talking about one person and trying to use that as to say this black face thing wasn't from an evil place. There was nothing that I said that can be disputed either. So the origins was to exclude, to make fun of, to humiliate, even used by the kkk to recruit and you're saying because this man did it you can't really be offended? And are you suggesting that Pugh was thinking about Al Jolson.

[AUght2win 6,851]

3 hours ago, AUDevil said:

Why would I judge him Cole, I don't even know him.

Bro this is a stupid semantics game. Whether he is "racist" or "insensitive" or "ignorant" or whatever doesn't matter. What Ryan did was wrong.

It was 10 years ago, and he likely wouldn't do it again, but it happened. He SHOULDN'T be canceled but y'all SHOULDN'T act like blackface in and of itself is fine. It isn't. Half the people in this thread maintain he did nothing wrong. 

[TigerHorn 1,353]

1 hour ago, McLoofus said:

What they are familiar with is that they don't need to hire this guy to coach their black players because they can absolutely find someone else to coach offensive linemen. Some dude from Troy in his early 30s isn't some irreplaceable superstar in the business. Why deal with the baggage? It's a business decision, and a very understandable one. 

That's a fair question IMO.

 

Baylor had this guy quit a job and commit to them. That should be a two way street, ESPECIALLY for a Christian school, where forgiveness is a core value. Apparently he's done quite well coaching black players at Troy and other stops. Should all of those players that he helped now turn their back on him? Neither of us is without sin 'Loof. The standard CANNOT be perfection in all aspects of life. 

WRT to his teammates, they all played their hearts out together at AU, black and white. It's not at all impossible that one of his black teammates made the suggestion for the costume, is it? Not all people of any color think the same. Just ask Thomas Sowell.