Black in America

[homersapien 11,393]

A Black Army vet toured a house with his real estate agent and teen. Police surrounded the home and handcuffed them.

By Jonathan Edwards

Today at 6:04 a.m. EDT

 

 

As a police officer turned Roy Thorne around to cuff his hands behind his back, the 45-year-old father saw the same happening to his 15-year-old son.

Feelings came quickly then to Thorne, who’s Black: rage that his son was being arrested. Humiliation that the teenager had to watch his dad get handcuffed while the whole neighborhood looked on. Confusion about how viewing a house with his real estate agent on a Sunday afternoon could lead to a half-dozen police officers pointing guns at them.

But more than anything: powerlessness. Thorne could do nothing other than obey in a desperate attempt not to die.

“I just felt defeated,” he told The Washington Post. “That’s something you never want your kid to see.”

Thorne and his son were touring a home Sunday with real estate agent Eric Brown, who’s also Black, in Wyoming, Mich., when police suddenly surrounded the house with guns drawn. The officers were responding to a neighbor’s 911 call about a break in. They ordered the three out of the house, handcuffed them and put them in separate vehicles.

Except it wasn’t a break in. Brown, 46, who has been working in the Grand Rapids area market for 20 years, had arrived at the house on Sharon Avenue SW around 2 p.m. Thorne brought his 15-year-old son, Samuel.

Thorne and Brown said they were racially profiled. If they were White, they said, neighbors wouldn’t have called the police. And if they did, some half-dozen officers would not have surrounded the place with guns drawn, the men added.

“A SWAT team is what it felt like,” Brown told The Post.

A captain with the Wyoming Police Department didn’t respond to a request for comment from The Post late Thursday but told a local TV station earlier this week the officers’ response had nothing to do with race.

For two months, Brown has been helping Thorne find a house, and the brick two-story was the latest possibility. For about a half-hour, the two men toured the property, noting features they liked — the size of the master bedroom and front yard — and what they didn’t, like the outdated basement.

Then Samuel, who’d split off to size up his possible future bedroom, rejoined them to report police officers were outside. Thorne looked out and saw two of them armed and communicating only using hand signals. When one of them went to the back of the house, Thorne, an Army veteran, realized they were being surrounded.

He told his son and Brown to get down and stay away from the windows.

Thorne spotted an officer in the backyard and called to him several times through an open window. The officer pointed his gun at Thorne, he said, leading him to duck. He told the officer there were three of them in the house and they were coming out with their hands up. He made sure his son was behind him.

“I was scared,” Thorne said. “I was scared for my son.”

The thought that raced through Brown’s head: “We’re going to die today.”

No one did. Officers commanded them to keep their hands raised until they were cuffed and put in separate vehicles. When Thorne and Brown asked what was happening, officers told them to wait.

Brown explained he was a real estate agent on a scheduled tour. Still handcuffed, he showed them his credentials and said he had a confirmed appointment to show the home. He explained how he had used an app on his phone to access a lockbox with the house key.

That’s when officers realized the mistake and freed Thorne, Brown and his son. Thorne estimated they were in handcuffs for about 20 minutes.

Several officers apologized, and Thorne said he thinks one was genuinely sorry. He said he saw that officer talking with the White couple who called 911. The officer returned to say he had chewed them out, apologized again and left, Thorne said.

The incident lasted about 30 minutes, but Thorne and Brown said its effects will endure well into the future. Thorne said Samuel is “paranoid” about how doing something as banal as touring a house for sale could lead to multiple officers pointing guns at him and his father.

“I don’t get how we were treated as a threat when we’re clearly not one. If we were White, that wouldn’t happen,” Thorne said, noting there had been as many as 40 showings without incident in the three weeks that house had been on the market.

Capt. Timothy Pols, with the Wyoming police, told WOOD-TV that someone had broken into the vacant home on July 24. Officers went to the house and arrested a suspect. They returned Sunday after the neighbor reported another possible break in.

Thorne said he intends to request a recording of the 911 call to see if it explains the police response. Brown said he, too, has questions: Why didn’t police run his license plate? Why didn’t officers announce themselves? Why didn’t they just ring the doorbell?

“I’m just really confused, and it’s … super, super stressful,” Brown said.

The pair is determined to get answers and push for change. They were disappointed, not just in the police response, but that another 911 call led to Black men being handcuffed.

“If you see a crime, report a crime,” Thorne said. “But if you see us just living life the same way you do, just let us do that.”

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/08/06/black-realtor-michigan-police-handcuffed/

Edited August 6, 2021 by homersapien

[CoffeeTiger 5,135]

The typical people on here will just say

"It was an honest mistake; I don't see how race had anything to do with it; police cleared it up and let them go so no harm done"...blah blah 

 

I'd like to see them with their child have guns pointed at them, yelled at,  and physically arrested/detained for half an hour for absolutely NO reason whatsoever and not be enraged at what happened. Of course stuff like this doesn't happen middle aged/ older white men so they'd have no idea what it was like. 

[DKW 86 7,431]

Not me. Blacks finally moving into white neighborhoods is a family sore point. 

[AUGunsmith 666]

More proof that american cops are naught but state sanctioned gangs/terrorist. 

[aubaseball 2,629]

It’s called a 911 call you idiots.   I haven’t heard one of you say anything about the neighbor.   You put all the blame on the cops doing their job.   It’s called policing.   You get a call and you detain the individuals until you figure out the situation.   It’s convenient to forget the part in the story about an earlier break in.    Was there a for sale sign in the yard?   No mention of that.   There was mention of a lock box, but was it visible for everyone to see.   
 

it’s obvious that most on here have no clue as to how officers are trained in approaching a situation 

[aubiefifty 16,822]

1 hour ago, aubaseball said:

It’s called a 911 call you idiots.   I haven’t heard one of you say anything about the neighbor.   You put all the blame on the cops doing their job.   It’s called policing.   You get a call and you detain the individuals until you figure out the situation.   It’s convenient to forget the part in the story about an earlier break in.    Was there a for sale sign in the yard?   No mention of that.   There was mention of a lock box, but was it visible for everyone to see.   
 

it’s obvious that most on here have no clue as to how officers are trained in approaching a situation 

you mean like they detained george floyd? get out of here with that crap. you are assuming a whole lot of things while questioning other things which means you do not have all the facts and yet you want to call people idiots.i am going to have to address you as shortbus from now on.

[aubaseball 2,629]

39 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

you mean like they detained george floyd? get out of here with that crap. you are assuming a whole lot of things while questioning other things which means you do not have all the facts and yet you want to call people idiots.i am going to have to address you as shortbus from now on.

That’s fine.    I’ll call you helmet.   Of course you would bring up GF.   The question I brought up is clearly the most important question.    If you can’t see that there are so many unanswered questions just from that article,  you belong in front of the bus with your helmet on.   

Please enlighten me on how you would handle yourself in police tactics?  Because clearly you have walked in their shoes by how you respond.  

[AUGunsmith 666]

6 hours ago, aubaseball said:

It’s called a 911 call you idiots.   I haven’t heard one of you say anything about the neighbor.   You put all the blame on the cops doing their job.   It’s called policing.   You get a call and you detain the individuals until you figure out the situation.   It’s convenient to forget the part in the story about an earlier break in.    Was there a for sale sign in the yard?   No mention of that.   There was mention of a lock box, but was it visible for everyone to see.   
 

it’s obvious that most on here have no clue as to how officers are trained in approaching a situation 

So cops attack black people acting legally is ok as long as a nosy neighbor reports non illegal activity. 

Instead of 1 or 2 guys responding walking up engaging in conversation and working as a part of the community, multiple terrorist show up with the intent to use lethal force. Operating with the mindset of extreme aggression with a comply or die option for the targets of the police violence. 

The biggest problem with policing is that any crime put onto the books is ultimately punishable by death if you don't bow to the authority of the state or the responding state agent. 

[CoffeeTiger 5,135]

6 hours ago, aubaseball said:

It’s called a 911 call you idiots.   I haven’t heard one of you say anything about the neighbor.   You put all the blame on the cops doing their job.   It’s called policing.   You get a call and you detain the individuals until you figure out the situation.   It’s convenient to forget the part in the story about an earlier break in.    Was there a for sale sign in the yard?   No mention of that.   There was mention of a lock box, but was it visible for everyone to see.   

 

 

Sounds like a pretty messed up system where you just have to call 911 and accuse someone of a crime to get the police to show up on scene with guns drawn and detain everyone before they actually talk or try to figure out what's going on. Sounds like an easy way to harass people you don't like and then just feign ignorance when confronted. (oh, i just reported what i saw I didn't REALLY know).

It's also very dangerous to have police draw a weapon on you because the slightest wrong move or twitch could cause a nervous officer to pull the trigger on you and claim he was fearing for his life.

and LOL, as if having a 'for sale' sign or a visible lockbox would have mattered at all in this situation. The police were determined to go full SWAT in this situation from the very beginning

 

(and yes, race likely had a big impact on why the neighbors called the police..thats true...that also doesn't excuse the disproportionate police response to the situation)

Quote

 

it’s obvious that most on here have no clue as to how officers are trained in approaching a situation 

That's kind of the central issue in policing in America right now isn't it? The way police officers are(or aren't trained) to handle situations in America is very inconsistent and kind of messed up.

 

Policing in America is more dangerous and more involved than any other first would country on earth, but at the same time we train our police much less than anywhere else, and don't have particularly high standards for policing in a lot of areas. It's not a good combination.

 

 

Edited August 7, 2021 by CoffeeTiger

[AUGunsmith 666]

1 hour ago, CoffeeTiger said:

Policing in America is more dangerous and more involved than any other first would country on earth, but at the same time we train our police much less than anywhere else, and don't have particularly high standards for policing in a lot of areas. It's not a good combination.

 

 

The danger issue is a direct consequence of the state over criminalization of non violent activity. If I am doing something which does nothing to aggress upon others, you're damn right I'm going to fight tooth and nail against being locked in a cage for breaking a state edict. 

 

Combine this with that there is not an actual count of federal crimes, pretextual stops and profiteering and you have the perfect storm for people to fight back against oppressive regimes. 

[SaltyTiger 7,816]

https://www.cbs42.com/news/national/police-release-video-of-black-real-estate-agent-clients-being-handcuffed-after-neighbor-reports-break-in/

 

“Officers explained to Brown, who was driving a Hyundai Genesis on the day of the incident, that a person who has similar car to his had been arrested for breaking into the home on July 24. A concerned neighbor thought it was the same car, which led to the neighbor calling police about a possible break-in. 

“Our other officer arrested someone here a couple days ago who had a black Mercedes,” an officer said. 

“My car definitely looks like a black Mercedes,” Brown responded.

 

Putting them in handcuffs was standard procedure, WDPS says. 

WDPS declined a request from WOOD to do an interview, but did offer a statement with additional details about the incident. 

“Community members and the media have asked for a response regarding whether or not the race of the Realtor and his clients played a role in the police response to this incident,” the statement said, in part. “After a thorough internal review of the actions of each of our public safety officers who responded to this incident, we have concluded race played no role in our officers’ treatment of the individuals who were briefly detained, and our officers responded appropriately. While it is unfortunate that innocent individuals were placed in handcuffs, our officers responded reasonably and according to department policy based on the information available to them at the time.”

 

 

 

[AU9377 4,977]

8 hours ago, aubaseball said:

It’s called a 911 call you idiots.   I haven’t heard one of you say anything about the neighbor.   You put all the blame on the cops doing their job.   It’s called policing.   You get a call and you detain the individuals until you figure out the situation.   It’s convenient to forget the part in the story about an earlier break in.    Was there a for sale sign in the yard?   No mention of that.   There was mention of a lock box, but was it visible for everyone to see.   
 

it’s obvious that most on here have no clue as to how officers are trained in approaching a situation 

Why would good policing include placing these people in hand cuffs? I can assure you that if I am peeking in the windows of a house that I am considering buying and the cops show up, they are simply going to ask what I am doing there and then possibly verify my story.  Same goes if I am inside.  If the homeowner had called, the entire situation is understandable, but it wasn't the home owner.

[homersapien 11,393]

9 hours ago, aubaseball said:

It’s called a 911 call you idiots.   I haven’t heard one of you say anything about the neighbor.   You put all the blame on the cops doing their job.   It’s called policing.   You get a call and you detain the individuals until you figure out the situation.   It’s convenient to forget the part in the story about an earlier break in.    Was there a for sale sign in the yard?   No mention of that.   There was mention of a lock box, but was it visible for everyone to see.   
 

it’s obvious that most on here have no clue as to how officers are trained in approaching a situation 

I do blame the neighbor, but the LEOs could have handled it better - perhaps a few questions before handcuffing everyone?  It's not like the real estate agent and his clients were armed and represented a threat.

And I am pretty sure that if the realtor and the clients had been white, there wouldn't have been a 911 call in the first place.   My point is blacks are often subjected to systemic racism which whites don't appreciate - thus the title.

Edited August 7, 2021 by homersapien

[creed 1,641]

This article did just as the poster intended - stir the pot.

[Grumps 3,704]

There is no question in my mind that the neighbors and the LEO racially profiled the three men. I am also somewhat confident that the LEO could have avoided the handcuffs, even though they had the open to use them. I am also very glad that the situation was handled and no one was injured.

As creed said, I also have no question that the writer of the article is intentionally stirring the pot.

Edited August 7, 2021 by Grumps

[homersapien 11,393]

3 minutes ago, creed said:

This article did just as the poster intended - stir the pot.

Perhaps this is a "pot" that needs to be stirred.

[creed 1,641]

3 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Perhaps this is a "pot" that needs to be stirred.

You have excellent credentials for the job! LOL...

[AUGunsmith 666]

15 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Perhaps this is a "pot" that needs to be stirred.

Anyone who thinks that the modern, uber aggressive, militarized police enforcing victimless edicts of the state aren't the issue, they aren't a friend if freedom. 

[Grumps 3,704]

18 minutes ago, AUGunsmith said:

Anyone who thinks that the modern, uber aggressive, militarized police enforcing victimless edicts of the state aren't the issue, they aren't a friend if freedom. 

 

18 minutes ago, AUGunsmith said:

Anyone who thinks that the modern, uber aggressive, militarized police enforcing victimless edicts of the state aren't the issue, they aren't a friend if freedom. 

And yet another "if you don't think like me then you are a horrible person" post!

[aubaseball 2,629]

22 minutes ago, AUGunsmith said:

Anyone who thinks that the modern, uber aggressive, militarized police enforcing victimless edicts of the state aren't the issue, they aren't a friend if freedom. 

You are completely clueless along with the most of the other responses.   There have been 36 officers killed this year by gunfire.   45 killed in 2020.   You fools would approach a situation in this case “ a report of breaking and entering “ with a , “oh hi there we have a report a b&e, and need to know if you have a right to be here.   And if on the previous occasion it had been a white male that was arrested and it appeared that the same individual was back again with two more, you betcha they would have received the same treatment.   
you people want to bring race into everything.    It’s a profession that constantly deals with  people that break the law.  People that you would have nothing to do with  in “your” everyday life.   They have the right to expect to be able to return home after their shift.   The same group people you look down on would be the first person you call if you were in trouble.   

[AUGunsmith 666]

17 minutes ago, Grumps said:

 

And yet another "if you don't think like me then you are a horrible person" post!

It's the literal antithesis. The textbook definition. 

 

Plus I never said anyone is a horrible person, just that they aren't supporters of freedom. 

 

Nice try though. 

[AUGunsmith 666]

3 minutes ago, aubaseball said:

You are completely clueless along with the most of the other responses.   There have been 36 officers killed this year by gunfire.   45 killed in 2020.   You fools would approach a situation in this case “ a report of breaking and entering “ with a , “oh hi there we have a report a b&e, and need to know if you have a right to be here.   And if on the previous occasion it had been a white male that was arrested and it appeared that the same individual was back again with two more, you betcha they would have received the same treatment.   
you people want to bring race into everything.    It’s a profession that constantly deals with  people that break the law.  People that you would have nothing to do with  in “your” everyday life.   They have the right to expect to be able to return home after their shift.   The same group people you look down on would be the first person you call if you were in trouble.   

Yet cops shoot in average over 1000 people a year. Even more deaths when you add other deaths in custody like sandra bland and Floyd. 

 

I never brought race into anything. I've said nothing but criticism of policing as a whole regardless if race. 

 

Why would I ever call a cop in an emergency so he can show up 30 mins too late and shoot my dog? Police cannot protect you, nor do they have a legal obligation to help at all. 

 

Plus, being a cop isn't even a statically dangerous job. The odds of injury are low. The odds of felonious death of a cop are extremely low. In 2019, the last year the FBI has stats, only 49 cops died from in duty felonious acts. 

 

Let's stoo hiding behind the back the blue bull**** and look at the objective issue present in policing. 

Cops are taught to fear every encounter, to treat every incounter like it's life or death, the warrior cop scared of everything idea is taught by academies nationwide. The fear for my life shoot 1st mantra shielded by unions and the blue line of silence is not compatible with a free people. 

[creed 1,641]

Here's a unique way to look at this situation. Pretend there are no police and your neighbor calls you and says "hey someone is in your house.  I know it's for sale and all but remember last week there was a break-in".

How do you respond? Don't give a bs answer.

Edited August 7, 2021 by creed

[cole256 17,084]

11 hours ago, aubaseball said:

It’s called a 911 call you idiots.   I haven’t heard one of you say anything about the neighbor.   You put all the blame on the cops doing their job.   It’s called policing.   You get a call and you detain the individuals until you figure out the situation.   It’s convenient to forget the part in the story about an earlier break in.    Was there a for sale sign in the yard?   No mention of that.   There was mention of a lock box, but was it visible for everyone to see.   
 

it’s obvious that most on here have no clue as to how officers are trained in approaching a situation 

I don't really see your point, but you have many many different cases besides this that can be looked at. You have the college kid who had the gun pulled on him by the officer because he was picking up trash at his dorm in Colorado. You have the incident in Texas where the policeman came and put the man in cuffs because he was black and had dreads.

You have the case in Atlanta if I'm not mistaken where the policeman punched a teen in the face then kicked him in his head. The case in Texas where the policeman shot the kid in the back of the head when they came to break up a teen party. 

A case where a black teen bought a dirt bike that had been stolen and every step the child was treated like an adult....but he was told by a fellow officer how he was messing up so I guess that can be used as a positive......but there are many many more cases to view

[SaltyTiger 7,816]

4 hours ago, homersapien said:

And I am pretty sure that if the realtor and the clients had been white, there wouldn't have been a 911 call in the first place.   My point is blacks are often subjected to systemic racism which whites don't appreciate - thus the title.

Of course you have no clue how it would have been handled if the clients had been white.

Disregard that the car and description were similar in a previous break in. Dumb realtor… should have have pointed out how effective the “neighborhood watch” program is and the immediate law enforcement response. Sounds like a safe and caring neighborhood.