Black in America

[aubaseball 2,629]

3 hours ago, AUGunsmith said:

Yet cops shoot in average over 1000 people a year. Even more deaths when you add other deaths in custody like sandra bland and Floyd. 

 

I never brought race into anything. I've said nothing but criticism of policing as a whole regardless if race. 

 

Why would I ever call a cop in an emergency so he can show up 30 mins too late and shoot my dog? Police cannot protect you, nor do they have a legal obligation to help at all. 

 

Plus, being a cop isn't even a statically dangerous job. The odds of injury are low. The odds of felonious death of a cop are extremely low. In 2019, the last year the FBI has stats, only 49 cops died from in duty felonious acts. 

 

Let's stoo hiding behind the back the blue bull**** and look at the objective issue present in policing. 

Cops are taught to fear every encounter, to treat every incounter like it's life or death, the warrior cop scared of everything idea is taught by academies nationwide. The fear for my life shoot 1st mantra shielded by unions and the blue line of silence is not compatible with a free people. 

It’s obvious that there are incidents that happen that involve bad policemen.   People that should never have been given a badge.   Do they need more training?  Of course they do but municipalities and states don’t spend the money to provide the training.   
 

you make it sound like a free people will police themselves.  I see the free people walking into stores and taking what they want without any free person doing a thing.   It sounds like you are completely against any form of policing and believe that citizens will handle all situations.  
 

what profession in the USA loses 49 people in a year besides the police and military?  I didn’t know that accountants, doctors and lawyers were being targeted.   

[aubaseball 2,629]

2 hours ago, cole256 said:

I don't really see your point, but you have many many different cases besides this that can be looked at. You have the college kid who had the gun pulled on him by the officer because he was picking up trash at his dorm in Colorado. You have the incident in Texas where the policeman came and put the man in cuffs because he was black and had dreads.

You have the case in Atlanta if I'm not mistaken where the policeman punched a teen in the face then kicked him in his head. The case in Texas where the policeman shot the kid in the back of the head when they came to break up a teen party. 

A case where a black teen bought a dirt bike that had been stolen and every step the child was treated like an adult....but he was told by a fellow officer how he was messing up so I guess that can be used as a positive......but there are many many more cases to view

You don’t see the point because you don’t put yourself in the position of the responding officer.   A 911 call automatically gets the adrenaline ramped up.   Then throw in that they just responded days earlier and caught a burglar.   
I don’t know about the situations you mentioned but I do see a lack of respect for authority.   I see people disregard the simple commands that would lead to a simple arrest turn into a fight for the dumbest of crimes.   

[cole256 17,084]

46 minutes ago, aubaseball said:

You don’t see the point because you don’t put yourself in the position of the responding officer.   A 911 call automatically gets the adrenaline ramped up.   Then throw in that they just responded days earlier and caught a burglar.   
I don’t know about the situations you mentioned but I do see a lack of respect for authority.   I see people disregard the simple commands that would lead to a simple arrest turn into a fight for the dumbest of crimes.   

Lol. You don't see the point because you don't put yourself in being a minority and being treated subhuman. Police shouldn't be commanding anybody unless the person is breaking the law. And that also man no manipulating the law such as making up a person tail light is out to initiate contact 

And also I feel like you are forgetting they are supposed to be professionals. If you are scared of the smallest things you shouldn't choose this job. If you can't operate under pressure shouldn't do this. If you make dumb decisions because your adrenaline is pumping you can't do this. If you can't stay impartial every single time, you shouldn't do the job. You have people 's lives in your hand and you are given the utmost authority. It's not any give them a break it's hard!

Hell you expect me to be on my p's and q's at the nuke plant. If I made a mistake bad enough to melt a freaking reactor the last thing you want to hear is man it's hard and he's tired and there was a bunch of pressure. I signed up for what I signed up for. Of course we are tested our entire career and it's not so easy a high school kid can pass it. And if we mess up we don't get sent home with pay, and we don't rally around each other when there's a mistake and lie for each other. And if it goes bad we don't keep everything behind closed doors and do nothing and then pretend that we fixed a problem.

[aubaseball 2,629]

7 hours ago, cole256 said:

Lol. You don't see the point because you don't put yourself in being a minority and being treated subhuman. Police shouldn't be commanding anybody unless the person is breaking the law. And that also man no manipulating the law such as making up a person tail light is out to initiate contact 

And also I feel like you are forgetting they are supposed to be professionals. If you are scared of the smallest things you shouldn't choose this job. If you can't operate under pressure shouldn't do this. If you make dumb decisions because your adrenaline is pumping you can't do this. If you can't stay impartial every single time, you shouldn't do the job. You have people 's lives in your hand and you are given the utmost authority. It's not any give them a break it's hard!

Hell you expect me to be on my p's and q's at the nuke plant. If I made a mistake bad enough to melt a freaking reactor the last thing you want to hear is man it's hard and he's tired and there was a bunch of pressure. I signed up for what I signed up for. Of course we are tested our entire career and it's not so easy a high school kid can pass it. And if we mess up we don't get sent home with pay, and we don't rally around each other when there's a mistake and lie for each other. And if it goes bad we don't keep everything behind closed doors and do nothing and then pretend that we fixed a problem.

I get what you are saying.   There are individuals that are in the profession that never should have been.   I was in federal law enforcement for 30 years and worked with all kinds of state, local and other federal agencies.   I’ve dealt with all kinds of people and know actually what it’s like to roll up on a situation.    You pretend to understand but you don’t know, just like I don’t know what it’s like to work in your environment.   I’m not down at the local nuke plant screaming in your face that you are a piece of sh**, racist and every other word.   

Also since the dawn of time,  companies have been covering up, hiding, protecting themselves from corruption, cheating.   It’s not just cops that protect each other.   

[cole256 17,084]

7 hours ago, aubaseball said:

I get what you are saying.   There are individuals that are in the profession that never should have been.   I was in federal law enforcement for 30 years and worked with all kinds of state, local and other federal agencies.   I’ve dealt with all kinds of people and know actually what it’s like to roll up on a situation.    You pretend to understand but you don’t know, just like I don’t know what it’s like to work in your environment.   I’m not down at the local nuke plant screaming in your face that you are a piece of sh**, racist and every other word.   

Also since the dawn of time,  companies have been covering up, hiding, protecting themselves from corruption, cheating.   It’s not just cops that protect each other.   

You are just saying stuff as if you want people to say oh ok, well you shot this guy for no reason, but ok you DID run into a black guy who actually meant you harm last year so.........it's ok no harm no foul......

That's the entire point! You get the absolute authority because you're supposed to be good. You supposedly sacrifice, you are filled with valor, you're a hero. Not because you're human like everybody else so understand you may kill some people here or there but you're mostly good!

And corporations do that to continue to make money, or continue existence. Not just to protect someone who looks like them...And once again just because somebody else has done it, doesn't make it right. Hell people have been murdering each other since the dawn of time, but you don't just let it slide do you?

And you don't have people telling those phrases but in my job if you can't do anything right you will be called a piece of $hi+, most positions that exist that are hard respect the job itself so everybody in it are very strict and hard on their brothers and sisters, so they hold them accountable because if you are going to get the respect that comes with the position you damn sure will fit the bill......not policeman. They will actually lie for each other, they are entitled. Hell they are so entitled they don't expect to even have to obey the laws. They would be offended if another lawman gave them a ticket for something simple like speeding. 

I know the job is hard, I'm saying it's pathetic if hidden cameras was placed everywhere we'd expect to see messed up stuff....And many seem to want to just shrug and wine and say but it's hard!

And as far as how many hate them, it's because of THEM! If they would just police themselves and just do the job honorably they would be the most loved people on earth. It's actually pathetic how they get applauded for doing something so little like just play basketball with some kids. You've never seen a policeman that's always good just get destroyed by people.

Edited August 8, 2021 by cole256

[DKW 86 7,430]

On 8/6/2021 at 5:31 PM, DKW 86 said:

Not me. Blacks finally moving into white neighborhoods is a family sore point. 

Not my immediate family, my extended family.

[DKW 86 7,430]

4 hours ago, aubaseball said:

I get what you are saying.   There are individuals that are in the profession that never should have been.   I was in federal law enforcement for 30 years and worked with all kinds of state, local and other federal agencies.   I’ve dealt with all kinds of people and know actually what it’s like to roll up on a situation.    You pretend to understand but you don’t know, just like I don’t know what it’s like to work in your environment.   I’m not down at the local nuke plant screaming in your face that you are a piece of sh**, racist and every other word.   

Also since the dawn of time,  companies have been covering up, hiding, protecting themselves from corruption, cheating.   It’s not just cops that protect each other.   

You forget POLITICAL PARTIES. They cover up for each other all the time and have been for decades. 

[CoffeeTiger 5,135]

16 hours ago, aubaseball said:

  
what profession in the USA loses 49 people in a year besides the police and military?  I didn’t know that accountants, doctors and lawyers were being targeted.   

https://www.ncwriskmanagement.com/blog/2021/01/top-10-most-dangerous-jobs-of-2020

Landscapers-48 deaths

Farmers- 258 deaths 

Commercial drivers- 966 deaths 

Roofers- 96 deaths 

Loggers- 56 deaths. 

More examples in link.

Most years, police aren’t in the top 15 of most dangerous professions in the country. 

 

[homersapien 11,393]

On 8/7/2021 at 7:14 AM, aubaseball said:

It’s called a 911 call you idiots.   I haven’t heard one of you say anything about the neighbor.   You put all the blame on the cops doing their job.   It’s called policing.   You get a call and you detain the individuals until you figure out the situation.   It’s convenient to forget the part in the story about an earlier break in.    Was there a for sale sign in the yard?   No mention of that.   There was mention of a lock box, but was it visible for everyone to see.   
 

it’s obvious that most on here have no clue as to how officers are trained in approaching a situation 

Seems to me that 20 minutes - which is about the amount of time they were in cuffs - is more than enough time to realize their mistake.

Had the realtor and his clients been white, do you think they would have spent 20 minutes in cuffs?

I am not saying these LEO's are "racists" (one in particular apologized profusely). And as you pointed out, the person who called 911 shares culpability.  I am saying that racism is systemic in our country.  This is just another example.   We need to change and evolve beyond this.  (And just as an aside, I don't have much hope for this to happen until the numbers of interracial marriages increases by a lot.)

 

Edited August 9, 2021 by homersapien

[homersapien 11,393]

17 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

Of course you have no clue how it would have been handled if the clients had been white.

Disregard that the car and description were similar in a previous break in. Dumb realtor… should have have pointed out how effective the “neighborhood watch” program is and the immediate law enforcement response. Sounds like a safe and caring neighborhood. 

You might feel differently if you were black and watched your 17 year old kid get handcuffed.

I am sure the realtor was identifying himself immediately.  I cannot imagine a white realtor spending 20 minutes in cuffs after identifying himself.  That's a "clue" based on life experience.

[homersapien 11,393]

21 hours ago, AUGunsmith said:

Yet cops shoot in average over 1000 people a year. Even more deaths when you add other deaths in custody like sandra bland and Floyd. 

 

I never brought race into anything. I've said nothing but criticism of policing as a whole regardless if race. 

 

Why would I ever call a cop in an emergency so he can show up 30 mins too late and shoot my dog? Police cannot protect you, nor do they have a legal obligation to help at all. 

 

Plus, being a cop isn't even a statically dangerous job. The odds of injury are low. The odds of felonious death of a cop are extremely low. In 2019, the last year the FBI has stats, only 49 cops died from in duty felonious acts. 

 

Let's stoo hiding behind the back the blue bull**** and look at the objective issue present in policing. 

Cops are taught to fear every encounter, to treat every incounter like it's life or death, the warrior cop scared of everything idea is taught by academies nationwide. The fear for my life shoot 1st mantra shielded by unions and the blue line of silence is not compatible with a free people. 

Poisoning Our Police: How the Militarization Mindset Threatens Constitutional Rights and Public Safety

https://www.pogo.org/analysis/2020/06/poisoning-our-police-how-the-militarization-mindset-threatens-constitutional-rights-and-public-safety/

 

[homersapien 11,393]

23 hours ago, creed said:

You have excellent credentials for the job! LOL...

That's why I'm here.

[aubaseball 2,629]

2 hours ago, CoffeeTiger said:

https://www.ncwriskmanagement.com/blog/2021/01/top-10-most-dangerous-jobs-of-2020

Landscapers-48 deaths

Farmers- 258 deaths 

Commercial drivers- 966 deaths 

Roofers- 96 deaths 

Loggers- 56 deaths. 

More examples in link.

Most years, police aren’t in the top 15 of most dangerous professions in the country. 

 

I’m not talking about accidental deaths.   I just listed gunfire deaths.       Dude, people die everyday from accidents.   Not many people go to work and get shot by a criminal.   

[cole256 17,084]

As usual, if it's not you involved it's not a problem.....all of these black people are just exaggerating....I myself never have a problem with police, and if they would just be obedient and do what they are told they wouldn't bring these things on themselves.

[CoffeeTiger 5,135]

2 hours ago, aubaseball said:

I’m not talking about accidental deaths.   I just listed gunfire deaths.       Dude, people die everyday from accidents.   Not many people go to work and get shot by a criminal.   

I’m talking job related deaths. And we’re including accidental police deaths in the statistics that don’t place them in the top 10 or top 15 most deadly/dangerous jobs in America most years. 

There are about 800,000 police officers in the US, so 49 shot to death in a year is a risk, and needs to be recognized, but isn’t a very high number in regards to the overall number of officers. Last year many more police officers died of Covid-19 than were shot to death. 

I’m not saying police take no risk and don’t deserve safety, but risk is a part of the job and overall, the risk a cop takes in being shot to death is relatively low. 

id advocate for more training, education, and pay for many police officers. 

[cole256 17,084]

3 hours ago, CoffeeTiger said:

I’m talking job related deaths. And we’re including accidental police deaths in the statistics that don’t place them in the top 10 or top 15 most deadly/dangerous jobs in America most years. 

There are about 800,000 police officers in the US, so 49 shot to death in a year is a risk, and needs to be recognized, but isn’t a very high number in regards to the overall number of officers. Last year many more police officers died of Covid-19 than were shot to death. 

I’m not saying police take no risk and don’t deserve safety, but risk is a part of the job and overall, the risk a cop takes in being shot to death is relatively low. 

id advocate for more training, education, and pay for many police officers. 

The more training thing is a sham imo, I agree with education and pay. There should also be much much higher requirements to even get a chance to be in a police academy.

The loser guys that were picked on in school and can't do anything else shouldn't even be able to sniff an police cadet interview. Also scary nervous candidates should apply elsewhere as well.

Edited August 9, 2021 by cole256

[homersapien 11,393]

3 hours ago, CoffeeTiger said:

I'd advocate for more training, education, and pay for many police officers. 

Amen.

And like cole said, more "barriers" to entry.

Edited August 9, 2021 by homersapien

[SaltyTiger 7,816]

22 hours ago, homersapien said:

I am sure the realtor was identifying himself immediately.  I cannot imagine a white realtor spending 20 minutes in cuffs after identifying himself.  That's a "clue" based on life experience.

And when he identified himself he was released.

“Brown explained he was a real estate agent on a scheduled tour. Still handcuffed, he showed them his credentials and said he had a confirmed appointment to show the home. He explained how he had used an app on his phone to access a lockbox with the house key.

That’s when officers realized the mistake and freed Thorne, Brown and his son. Thorne estimated they were inhandcuffs for about 20 minutes.”

I can imagine a white landlord or realtor in cuffs over a mistake. “Clue” based on life experience. 

[AU9377 4,977]

I will say this about the subject.  The issue is really not a uniquely American issue.  I have traveled extensively.  I will never forget the first time I was in Europe for the summer taking classes and backpacking.  By the way, it was the late 90s, not the 60s... lol.  At a bar one night I happen to start talking to a guy from Maryland.  His name was Michael and he happened to be a black guy.  Michael ended up traveling with our group over the next couple of months a good bit.  I believe there were 6 or 7 in our group.  We all had the same U.S. Passports and we were roughly all the same age.  There was one difference.  Every time, without fail, we entered a country or went thru a checkpoint, only Michael was asked for his passport. Sleeping on a night train, all I had to do when they opened the door was hold up my passport.  They didn't open it or stamp it.  They just closed the door and went to the next door.  If Michael was there, they asked him to step out and they examined his passport carefully.  They had every right to and that isn't the point.  The point is how starkly different their assumptions were, whether in Hungary, Prague, France or Italy.  To make light of the situation, we all started joking about him needing his papers.  Usually, if we spoke up and said that he was with us, they would make it brief and let us be on our way. 

To be fair, their primary immigration issues are from North Africa.  Add to that the fact that, especially at that time, their profile of what an American looked like didn't include a black guy in cut off shorts and a t-shirt.  I get all that, but it was the first real time that I totally understood the frustration from a young black guy's point of view.

[homersapien 11,393]

1 hour ago, AU9377 said:

I will say this about the subject.  The issue is really not a uniquely American issue.  I have traveled extensively.  I will never forget the first time I was in Europe for the summer taking classes and backpacking.  By the way, it was the late 90s, not the 60s... lol.  At a bar one night I happen to start talking to a guy from Maryland.  His name was Michael and he happened to be a black guy.  Michael ended up traveling with our group over the next couple of months a good bit.  I believe there were 6 or 7 in our group.  We all had the same U.S. Passports and we were roughly all the same age.  There was one difference.  Every time, without fail, we entered a country or went thru a checkpoint, only Michael was asked for his passport. Sleeping on a night train, all I had to do when they opened the door was hold up my passport.  They didn't open it or stamp it.  They just closed the door and went to the next door.  If Michael was there, they asked him to step out and they examined his passport carefully.  They had every right to and that isn't the point.  The point is how starkly different their assumptions were, whether in Hungary, Prague, France or Italy.  To make light of the situation, we all started joking about him needing his papers.  Usually, if we spoke up and said that he was with us, they would make it brief and let us be on our way. 

To be fair, their primary immigration issues are from North Africa.  Add to that the fact that, especially at that time, their profile of what an American looked like didn't include a black guy in cut off shorts and a t-shirt.  I get all that, but it was the first real time that I totally understood the frustration from a young black guy's point of view.

Had similar experiences while traveling with an Indian (Asian). 

He told me prior to going through customs they would waive me through but would stop him.  Sure enough, they took him into a small room and went through all of his luggage in detail.

[cole256 17,084]

On 8/9/2021 at 11:54 AM, AU9377 said:

I will say this about the subject.  The issue is really not a uniquely American issue.  I have traveled extensively.  I will never forget the first time I was in Europe for the summer taking classes and backpacking.  By the way, it was the late 90s, not the 60s... lol.  At a bar one night I happen to start talking to a guy from Maryland.  His name was Michael and he happened to be a black guy.  Michael ended up traveling with our group over the next couple of months a good bit.  I believe there were 6 or 7 in our group.  We all had the same U.S. Passports and we were roughly all the same age.  There was one difference.  Every time, without fail, we entered a country or went thru a checkpoint, only Michael was asked for his passport. Sleeping on a night train, all I had to do when they opened the door was hold up my passport.  They didn't open it or stamp it.  They just closed the door and went to the next door.  If Michael was there, they asked him to step out and they examined his passport carefully.  They had every right to and that isn't the point.  The point is how starkly different their assumptions were, whether in Hungary, Prague, France or Italy.  To make light of the situation, we all started joking about him needing his papers.  Usually, if we spoke up and said that he was with us, they would make it brief and let us be on our way. 

To be fair, their primary immigration issues are from North Africa.  Add to that the fact that, especially at that time, their profile of what an American looked like didn't include a black guy in cut off shorts and a t-shirt.  I get all that, but it was the first real time that I totally understood the frustration from a young black guy's point of view.

Small things like cashing a check or even going to Sam's Club is an adventure for me sometimes. My wife cried one time how I was treated. She said she's black and she didn't know at times how bad it can be with what I have to deal with. Like you said it's within rules sometimes, but when it happens you're alone with the aftermath of being treated different and less.

It can really take a toll mentally as well which is hardly ever discussed. And usually the only way it can be understood if for any reason a person's child is mistreated...then if they can think how we all were someone's child at one point of time maybe some truth can ring through.

[1716AU 730]

On 8/7/2021 at 7:14 AM, aubaseball said:

It’s called a 911 call you idiots.   I haven’t heard one of you say anything about the neighbor.   You put all the blame on the cops doing their job.   It’s called policing.   You get a call and you detain the individuals until you figure out the situation.   It’s convenient to forget the part in the story about an earlier break in.    Was there a for sale sign in the yard?   No mention of that.   There was mention of a lock box, but was it visible for everyone to see.   
 

it’s obvious that most on here have no clue as to how officers are trained in approaching a situation 

It's also Wyoming, which just like Alabama, Mississippi, Arkansas, et al, is just an amazingly racist place.

This was a white couple that got what they wanted: They scared any Black family from thinking of moving in with a 911 call.

 

[jj3jordan 2,056]

3 hours ago, 1716AU said:

It's also Wyoming, which just like Alabama, Mississippi, Arkansas, et al, is just an amazingly racist place.

This was a white couple that got what they wanted: They scared any Black family from thinking of moving in with a 911 call.

 

Don't know what your et al is but that's a pretty wide brush to paint all those states as "amazingly racist".   You sir have no grounds to call me or my state racist.

[1716AU 730]

3 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

Don't know what your et al is but that's a pretty wide brush to paint all those states as "amazingly racist".   You sir have no grounds to call me or my state racist.

Let me be careful how I answer, for I don't know if you're a kid or a senior citizen. 

I don't know you nor your name, so I would not call you racist, and therefore, you should be careful of what you have just accused me of, as I clearly did not call YOU a racist.

Now as to those southern states? They are RACIST states.  They have NEVER, EVER changed.  And they don't want to.  That is the essence of conservatism.

Boy, I grew up in East Alabama. I know how African Americans were treated, and how we were TAUGHT to keep them in their place. They had their place, and we were ALWAYS to remind them of it. Every time I return home to see my parents, people down there can't help themselves but to SHOW it and VERBALIZE it.

Alabama is a WHITE SUPREMECIST state, just like Wisconsin, Ohio, Mississippi, Texas, Wyoming, Oklahoma, Utah, and Idaho.  And it is so incredibly entrenched as to what ethnic group should have power and which ethnic group's history should be rewarded, that it cannot move forward. 

When I sold my home in Northport to move to Virginia, I was bombarded by ten neighbors who came to my home and threatened me if I sold it to a black family.  I was THREATENED IN FRONT OF MY DAUGHTERS!! Just with the idea of selling my home to a black family.

I know that you don't like it, but that is your society down there. And it hasn't changed because the people don't want it to change.

And it never will in my lifetime.

 

[creed 1,641]

29 minutes ago, 1716AU said:

Let me be careful how I answer, for I don't know if you're a kid or a senior citizen. 

I don't know you nor your name, so I would not call you racist, and therefore, you should be careful of what you have just accused me of, as I clearly did not call YOU a racist.

Now as to those southern states? They are RACIST states.  They have NEVER, EVER changed.  And they don't want to.  That is the essence of conservatism.

Boy, I grew up in East Alabama. I know how African Americans were treated, and how we were TAUGHT to keep them in their place. They had their place, and we were ALWAYS to remind them of it. Every time I return home to see my parents, people down there can't help themselves but to SHOW it and VERBALIZE it.

Alabama is a WHITE SUPREMECIST state, just like Wisconsin, Ohio, Mississippi, Texas, Wyoming, Oklahoma, Utah, and Idaho.  And it is so incredibly entrenched as to what ethnic group should have power and which ethnic group's history should be rewarded, that it cannot move forward. 

When I sold my home in Northport to move to Virginia, I was bombarded by ten neighbors who came to my home and threatened me if I sold it to a black family.  I was THREATENED IN FRONT OF MY DAUGHTERS!! Just with the idea of selling my home to a black family.

I know that you don't like it, but that is your society down there. And it hasn't changed because the people don't want it to change.

And it never will in my lifetime.

 

May I asked who TAUGHT you to keep African Americans in place? Never mind I know. 

I wasn't raised or TAUGHT that way.

Edited August 11, 2021 by creed