Hey Democrats...

[TexasTiger 13,026]

4 hours ago, Shoney'sPonyBoy said:

There is more than one economist who is expressing real concern that the economic policies pursued by this administration are likely to put us back in 1970s-style stagflation.  Here's a light overview from The Hill:https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/567795-dont-believe-the-white-house-hype-biden-is-ruining-the-economy-not-fixing

The first thing Biden did was create a border crisis, which has negatively impacted the country if for no other reason he is allowing thousands of people a week into the country who have not been vaccinated for COVID.  Either more unvaccinated people are contributing to people dying or not.  Which is it?

That's a couple of things off the top of my head.  I agree with those who have said that the proposed IRS bill is also quite harmful.

 

The article you link to is by a partisan hack who doesn’t even have a community college degree in economics, so he ain’t no economist. There’s little substance in that article. Any informed person knows the inflation we are dealing with is pandemic/supply chain induced. 
 

Biden mishandled the border, but I actually live near the border and it didn’t cause any real damage to our country.

Our economy is held back by a labor shortage. Frankly, we need an intelligent immigration plan to really grow our economy. Most Republicans are opposed to that.

[AU9377 5,043]

On 10/15/2021 at 11:17 AM, alexava said:

Everything I used to be a democrat for…. Is not there anymore. For years I think people have been supporting democrats just because they are democrats. U.S. labor…. No. Healthcare… not really. They have no principles. They hijack truths. They politicize, falsify and control thoughts on science. And don’t even get me started on criminal investigations between partisan politicians. All democrats seem interested in doing is pushing racism, sexism, transphobia bullsheyt to keep certain people feeling victimized so they can be the savior. They seem to hate the country and everything it was founded on. To the point many people are now quiet about politics from shame and disgust. That’s all National politics. Alabama state politics is just as bad with either party. So politics as a whole really sucks, republicans too. They just don’t seem he’ll bent on destroying the country from within. 

What is the Republican healthcare proposal? You know, that ghost proposal that has never materialized?  That is called having no plan. Criminal investigations?

You  mean investigating why an angry mob was assembled, stormed the capitol and attempted to prevent the ratification of the certified votes of electors pursuant to the U.S. Constitution?  Yeah, I think that has just a bit more justification than asking Hillary 500 different ways why she didn't put on a cape and fly to Africa to prevent the death of an ambassador by terrorists.

I can relate to being tired of some members of the far left blaming everything other than the time the sun comes up on racial inequalities that existed 60 years ago, however, everyone does have to feel that they have a fair shot at success for this country as a whole to find that success.

As for the trans issue.  I question whether or not it is even an issue.  It gets mentioned every day by right wing media.  There simply is not some massive group of people that are wanting to cut their penis off.  I think that it is used many times because people have realized that sexual attraction and orientation are not choices and as a result, it isn't as socially acceptable to trash people for who they are sexually attracted to or who they care about.  It is somewhat acceptable to point at trans people and remind everyone that they are making a choice to change their body.  Therefore, the right wants to make it a big issue so that they have some group to point at and attack.

I'm not certain why we don't just try to respect everyone and spend more time solving issues than making everything an us and them battle.

[Shoney'sPonyBoy 350]

10 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

The article you link to is by a partisan hack who doesn’t even have a community college degree in economics, so he ain’t no economist. There’s little substance in that article. Any informed person knows the inflation we are dealing with is pandemic/supply chain induced. 
 

Biden mishandled the border, but I actually live near the border and it didn’t cause any real damage to our country.

Our economy is held back by a labor shortage. Frankly, we need an intelligent immigration plan to really grow our economy. Most Republicans are opposed to that.

Yes, I said it was a light overview, not an actual analysis.

The problem with economics is that it is sharply divided along partisan lines.  I'm sure for every conservative economist I can find who disagrees with Biden's economic agenda you can find a liberal one.  So time will tell; experts won't.

As for the border, you do NOT think that the more unvaccinated people we have, the more Americans are at serious risk? 

That's basically what you just said. 

It's interesting to me that doing the things that supposedly endanger others with regard to COVID are sacrosanct...unless they are being done by groups above reproach.  Wandering around the countryside unvaccinated is practically a crime against humanity.  Unless the people doing the unvaccinated wandering are illegal immigrants. 

Then it's not a problem.

Kind of like when people were out protesting George Floyd's murder last year (or rioting under the guise of protesting, as each specific case may have been) they somehow weren't spreading COVID, but families who wanted to have a celebratory gathering for the 4th of July might as well have been firing guns randomly into crowds.

[Shoney'sPonyBoy 350]

10 hours ago, AU9377 said:

 

As for the trans issue.  I question whether or not it is even an issue.  It gets mentioned every day by right wing media.  There simply is not some massive group of people that are wanting to cut their penis off.  I think that it is used many times because people have realized that sexual attraction and orientation are not choices and as a result, it isn't as socially acceptable to trash people for who they are sexually attracted to or who they care about.  It is somewhat acceptable to point at trans people and remind everyone that they are making a choice to change their body.  Therefore, the right wants to make it a big issue so that they have some group to point at and attack.

I'm not certain why we don't just try to respect everyone and spend more time solving issues than making everything an us and them battle.

Your last sentence above is quite ironic given everything that comes before it.  

You spent an entire paragraph setting up a straw man caricature of conservatives arguing in bad faith and cruelly scapegoating a helpless group of people because they can't pick on the group they would really prefer to pick on, then wonder why we can't not make everything an us and them battle.  Gee, I don't know.

I will help you with the trans issue and why it matters to conservatives.  There are two reasons:

1.  As I have posted before, ignoring biology endangers girls and women.  If you really need me to explain why I will, but you shouldn't need for me to explain why.  Hint, the reason isn't because they are endangered by transgenders themselves.

2.  Ignoring objective fact is dangerous and conservatives realize this.  Real life example from this board—when confronted with the bald hypocrisy of objecting to students shouting @#$! Joe Biden while ignoring all the times that people have shouted @#$! Donald Trump in the exact same circumstance, Homer's argument was that "what is classless is subjective."  What he was trying to do was claim that whatever his personal opinion was could not be challenged—which of course would require that we all accept the premise that an analysis of any situation would be not just somewhat subjective, but 100% subjective.  That's how far he was willing to go to preserve That's Different©.

Anyway, that's the same thing that is happening with the trans culture.  I am not troubled by a man who says, "I am a man who identifies with femininity rather than masculinity.  I have always felt that way, my whole life.  Therefore, I choose to wear women's clothes and present myself as a woman."  Great, you do you.  Your choice and you just told the objective truth about it.

I am troubled by a man who insists that he is actually a woman.  Feelings do not change objective reality.  We now have had some white people claiming to be different races because they "feel" black or asian or whatever.  Denying objective reality is just not something conservatives are comfortable with.

 

[AU9377 5,043]

9 minutes ago, Shoney'sPonyBoy said:

Your last sentence above is quite ironic given everything that comes before it.  

You spent an entire paragraph setting up a straw man caricature of conservatives arguing in bad faith and cruelly scapegoating a helpless group of people because they can't pick on the group they would really prefer to pick on, then wonder why we can't not make everything an us and them battle.  Gee, I don't know.

I will help you with the trans issue and why it matters to conservatives.  There are two reasons:

1.  As I have posted before, ignoring biology endangers girls and women.  If you really need me to explain why I will, but you shouldn't need for me to explain why.  Hint, the reason isn't because they are endangered by transgenders themselves.

2.  Ignoring objective fact is dangerous and conservatives realize this.  Real life example from this board—when confronted with the bald hypocrisy of objecting to students shouting @#$! Joe Biden while ignoring all the times that people have shouted @#$! Donald Trump in the exact same circumstance, Homer's argument was that "what is classless is subjective."  What he was trying to do was claim that whatever his personal opinion was could not be challenged—which of course would require that we all accept the premise that an analysis of any situation would be not just somewhat subjective, but 100% subjective.  That's how far he was willing to go to preserve That's Different©.

Anyway, that's the same thing that is happening with the trans culture.  I am not troubled by a man who says, "I am a man who identifies with femininity rather than masculinity.  I have always felt that way, my whole life.  Therefore, I choose to wear women's clothes and present myself as a woman."  Great, you do you.  Your choice and you just told the objective truth about it.

I am troubled by a man who insists that he is actually a woman.  Feelings do not change objective reality.  We now have had some white people claiming to be different races because they "feel" black or asian or whatever.  Denying objective reality is just not something conservatives are comfortable with.

 

The point is that this trans culture that you talk about is not some massive group posing a threat to society.  Reading, watching or listening to right wing media outlets would lead anyone to assume that it was one of the most important issues facing the nation today.  It isn't. 

The issue is being exploited in order to develop a wedge issue and it is really no more than a scare tactic used to keep voters in line.  It is much easier than discussing real issues or having to answer for a lack of leadership. 

I have never argued that gender wasn't established at birth or that someone that is born with a penis should be allowed to play female sports. I do respect the right of others to live their personal lives as they wish.  Once upon a time, the far right targeted Gay people in the country and thought the world would end if they were allowed to be married.  Now that the majority of the country supports the idea that people should be able to care for who they want and the Supreme Court declared marriage to be a fundamental right, that issue is too risky, so they move on to something more shocking.

None of it remotely matters in the overall direction of this country, but discussing that is a great way to not discuss the debt, jobs, Covid, and a long list of things that 100 years from now will have actually shaped our future.

[TexasTiger 13,026]

1 hour ago, Shoney'sPonyBoy said:

Yes, I said it was a light overview, not an actual analysis.

The problem with economics is that it is sharply divided along partisan lines.  I'm sure for every conservative economist I can find who disagrees with Biden's economic agenda you can find a liberal one.  So time will tell; experts won't.

As for the border, you do NOT think that the more unvaccinated people we have, the more Americans are at serious risk? 

That's basically what you just said. 

It's interesting to me that doing the things that supposedly endanger others with regard to COVID are sacrosanct...unless they are being done by groups above reproach.  Wandering around the countryside unvaccinated is practically a crime against humanity.  Unless the people doing the unvaccinated wandering are illegal immigrants. 

Then it's not a problem.

Kind of like when people were out protesting George Floyd's murder last year (or rioting under the guise of protesting, as each specific case may have been) they somehow weren't spreading COVID, but families who wanted to have a celebratory gathering for the 4th of July might as well have been firing guns randomly into crowds.

Dude you’re reaching like a ranting partisan. I said he handled the border badly. Vaccinations are offered to folks at detention centers, but in a country with millions of unvaccinated idiots, I’m not sure a few thousand more make much of a dent.

[DKW 86 7,441]

6 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

Dude you’re reaching like a ranting partisan. I said he handled the border badly. Vaccinations are offered to folks at detention centers, but in a country with millions of unvaccinated idiots, I’m not sure a few thousand more make much of a dent.

Agreeing with you here, but why dont we mandate any Immigrants have to be vaccinated?

[TexasTiger 13,026]

21 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

Agreeing with you here, but why dont we mandate any Immigrants have to be vaccinated?

I think we should. Until recently, however, it wasn’t fully FDA approved, so that was likely a factor thru most of the crisis.

[Shoney'sPonyBoy 350]

7 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

Dude you’re reaching like a ranting partisan. I said he handled the border badly. Vaccinations are offered to folks at detention centers, but in a country with millions of unvaccinated idiots, I’m not sure a few thousand more make much of a dent.

I apologize if I came off as a ranting partisan; that was not my intention.

But that issue seems like a blatant contradiction to me.

And I'm not sure it's just a few thousand.  No one really knows, but since the Yale study estimates over 21 million illegals living in the country, I would think we'd have to be talking about hundreds of thousands a year.

 

 

[TexasTiger 13,026]

1 minute ago, Shoney'sPonyBoy said:

I apologize if I came off as a ranting partisan; that was not my intention.

But that issue seems like a blatant contradiction to me.

And I'm not sure it's just a few thousand.  No one really knows, but since the Yale study estimates over 21 million illegals living in the country, I would think we'd have to be talking about hundreds of thousands a year.

 

 

Most illegal immigrants in this country came in the country on legal visas and overstayed, they didn’t illegally cross the border.

https://apnews.com/article/north-america-donald-trump-az-state-wire-ca-state-wire-immigration-48d0ad46f143478d9384410f5ae3d38b

[Shoney'sPonyBoy 350]

Just now, TexasTiger said:

Most illegal immigrants in this country came in the country on legal visas and overstayed, they didn’t illegally cross the border.

https://apnews.com/article/north-america-donald-trump-az-state-wire-ca-state-wire-immigration-48d0ad46f143478d9384410f5ae3d38b

Good point.

[Shoney'sPonyBoy 350]

The only thing I would say to that is that whoever wrote that article is still using the 11 million number that I thought was replaced by the Yale study which estimated almost twice that number of illegals.  That is a big enough discrepancy to throw those percentages way off depending upon which numbers are closer to being correct.

[TexasTiger 13,026]

9 minutes ago, Shoney'sPonyBoy said:

The only thing I would say to that is that whoever wrote that article is still using the 11 million number that I thought was replaced by the Yale study which estimated almost twice that number of illegals.  That is a big enough discrepancy to throw those percentages way off depending upon which numbers are closer to being correct.

Okay. This is from those researchers:

 

While the findings are startling, they aren’t describing a new situation. “We wouldn’t want people to walk away from this research thinking that suddenly there’s a large influx happening now,” says Feinstein. “It’s really something that happened in the past and maybe was not properly counted or documented.” 

Kaplan adds, “What we’re saying is the number has been higher all along.”

 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/insights.som.yale.edu/insights/yale-study-finds-twice-as-many-undocumented-immigrants-as-previous-estimates%3famp

[Shoney'sPonyBoy 350]

7 hours ago, AU9377 said:

The point is that this trans culture that you talk about is not some massive group posing a threat to society.  Reading, watching or listening to right wing media outlets would lead anyone to assume that it was one of the most important issues facing the nation today.  It isn't. 

The issue is being exploited in order to develop a wedge issue and it is really no more than a scare tactic used to keep voters in line.  It is much easier than discussing real issues or having to answer for a lack of leadership. 

I have never argued that gender wasn't established at birth or that someone that is born with a penis should be allowed to play female sports. I do respect the right of others to live their personal lives as they wish.  Once upon a time, the far right targeted Gay people in the country and thought the world would end if they were allowed to be married.  Now that the majority of the country supports the idea that people should be able to care for who they want and the Supreme Court declared marriage to be a fundamental right, that issue is too risky, so they move on to something more shocking.

None of it remotely matters in the overall direction of this country, but discussing that is a great way to not discuss the debt, jobs, Covid, and a long list of things that 100 years from now will have actually shaped our future.

Again, I think you either didn't read what I wrote or don't believe it and just didn't say so.  It's o.k., you won't hurt my feelings if you disagree with me, and I would rather have someone say, "I see what you wrote there and I think you're wrong because of X, Y, and Z."  We might both learn something in that scenario, and although there are definitely subjects that I post confidently about (maybe too confidently...nobody's perfect), if someone can show me a flaw in my thinking I will listen.  It's got to be a reasoned response, though.  Not just, "That's dumb."

Bt posting the same thing as though I hadn't injected another perspective into the conversation gets us nowhere.

Anyway, the transgender issue doesn't have to be reflected by large group or pose widespread danger in order to facilitate a slippery slope in terms of thought influence.

Despite you continually caricaturing conservatives as being hate-filled predators just prowling for their next victim, I have another perspective.  I think the trans community started agitating for more attention after the gay marriage issue was settled, not that the "far right,"—disappointed by the loss of their last punching bag—settled for oppressing trans people instead of just gay people.

And don't think there has been no impact on culture as a result of the gay marriage settlement.  I know what gets the biggest headlines are the critical race theory subjects, but part of what parents across the country object to in public schools are their children being taught "Jane has Two Mommies" and the like.  

Surely you realize that was the whole point of the gay marriage movement.  It wasn't about having the same tax advantages and hospital rights, etc.  The gay community was offered all of those things in civil unions and they declined.  It was always about forcing social acceptance of the normalization of their orientation/lifestyle/whatever you want to call it.

Just like the whole point of the baker set-up was all about deepening homosexuals as a protected class, so that they can further force social acceptance.  It wasn't about "leaving people alone t live their personal lives as they wish."  It has always been about forcing acceptance.

Whether one agrees or disagrees with the specific gay/trans issue, I absolutely disagree with the notion that changing culture does not impact the country.  As I posted in the @#$! Joe Biden thread, the deliberate undermining of traditional Judaeo-Christian values that the country was historically built on absolutely has consequences.  I'm not saying all of them were worth preserving, but there is a reason if you look at the world and notice where republics and democracies developed, the foundation of them was Judaeo-Christian.  There is a reason they don't exist in, for example, Arab countries.

 

[SaltyTiger 7,864]

19 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

Our economy is held back by a labor shortage. Frankly, we need an intelligent immigration plan to really grow our economy. Most Republicans are opposed to that.

Amazing, talking with an electrical contractor Friday. Needs help and offering a $3000 sign on bonus. Noticed a Wendys on the coast. Sign offering $500 sign on bonus.

Game changer for the construction industry starting late 80’s was border immigrants. Primarily republican voting contractors felt blessed to have the resource. Speaking from experience, that resource made life much simpler.

[TexasTiger 13,026]

10 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

Amazing, talking with an electrical contractor Friday. Needs help and offering a $3000 sign on bonus. Noticed a Wendys on the coast. Sign offering $500 sign on bonus.

Game changer for the construction industry starting late 80’s was border immigrants. Primarily republican voting contractors felt blessed to have the resource. Speaking from experience, that resource made life much simpler.

It’s helped fuel the Texas economy, especially in construction. Dubya understood that.

Granted, some jobs simply need to pay more, but that’s not the only issue. 

[PUB78 1,363]

On 10/13/2021 at 4:43 PM, jj3jordan said:

Republicans want the economy to hum along also. No argument with common sense regulations. We all want clean air and water. But the income inequality issue is tricky.  No question rich people are rich and I’m not one of them. But…how about you identify to me the ratio of income inequality that is acceptable to you. We all know democrats scream about it but never actually say what percentage of wealth the top one two ten percent of the population should own. Right now they own too much but what are you looking for numbers wise. Until you identify some numbers and a method to obtain it, this argument will continue to fall on deaf ears. Some people just work harder than others.

Exactly! Ambition, drive , passion and determination goes a long way in being successful. Personal responsibility too!

[TexasTiger 13,026]

On 10/15/2021 at 7:28 PM, wdefromtx said:

Was never a Trumper, but if recognizing the harm Biden is doing makes me one, so be it.

Your handwringing over Biden is hyperbolic. Anything more substantive? Because this is the guy you’re looking real hard to find an excuse to vote for:

[homersapien 11,453]

On 10/14/2021 at 1:26 PM, AU9377 said:

It is not a contradiction.  You set up the question to be some sort of gotcha question.  The point is that you don't have to buy into every sentence in a party platform, which means very little, in order to vote for a particular candidate. The platforms mean very little in terms of actual decision making.

This^   

I vote on values (as I perceive them), not specifics in a platform.

[homersapien 11,453]

On 10/15/2021 at 12:36 PM, Shoney'sPonyBoy said:

Maybe one day we can have a discussion about what I actually have said.

From the reigning master of disingenuous interpretation!

 

[homersapien 11,453]

On 10/15/2021 at 11:17 AM, alexava said:

Everything I used to be a democrat for…. Is not there anymore. For years I think people have been supporting democrats just because they are democrats. U.S. labor…. No. Healthcare… not really. They have no principles. They hijack truths. They politicize, falsify and control thoughts on science. And don’t even get me started on criminal investigations between partisan politicians. All democrats seem interested in doing is pushing racism, sexism, transphobia bullsheyt to keep certain people feeling victimized so they can be the savior. They seem to hate the country and everything it was founded on. To the point many people are now quiet about politics from shame and disgust. That’s all National politics. Alabama state politics is just as bad with either party. So politics as a whole really sucks, republicans too. They just don’t seem he’ll bent on destroying the country from within. 

I've noticed that nihilism has become very popular amongst the younger set. 

Sign of the times I suppose.

[homersapien 11,453]

On 10/17/2021 at 8:43 AM, Shoney'sPonyBoy said:

Surely you realize that was the whole point of the gay marriage movement.  It wasn't about having the same tax advantages and hospital rights, etc.  The gay community was offered all of those things in civil unions and they declined.  It was always about forcing social acceptance of the normalization of their orientation/lifestyle/whatever you want to call it.

But history and science - not to mention simple common sense - tells us it is normal, if not particularly common. 

Who are you to proclaim otherwise?

Edited October 18, 2021 by homersapien

[homersapien 11,453]

On 10/15/2021 at 7:43 PM, wdefromtx said:

For starters his over reach with the vaccine mandates. 

The over reach he’s trying to stuff into the big spending bill he has. Basically giving the IRS free reign to look into everyone’s bank accounts. 
 

Do we really need to bring up his withdrawal from Afghanistan? He botched the hell out of that. 
 

That’s just the low hanging fruit. 
 

Hence his approval rating has and is still tanking.

If he keeps up this pace I will have to vote Republican instead of a third party name. At this point I don’t care if Trump runs again. 
 

 

 

Now explain how those two examples are "destroying" the country?

[jj3jordan 2,061]

6 minutes ago, homersapien said:

But history and science - not to mention simple common sense - tells us it is normal, if not particularly common. 

Who are you to proclaim otherwise?

Nothing about science or history tells us that homosexuality is normal.  We live to procreate and populate the earth. Otherwise the species will die out. That is not normal. Although a significant amount of leftists do want the human race eradicated so we can save the planet.

[homersapien 11,453]

On 10/16/2021 at 11:56 PM, Shoney'sPonyBoy said:

I am troubled by a man who insists that he is actually a woman.  Feelings do not change objective reality.  We now have had some white people claiming to be different races because they "feel" black or asian or whatever.  Denying objective reality is just not something conservatives are comfortable with.

 

Apparently, you are easily "troubled" by other people living their own lives as they see fit, in ways that don't affect you one iota.