That's weird

[AUFAN78 3,911]

@icanthearyou

[CoffeeTiger 5,121]

54 minutes ago, AUFAN78 said:

I mean you have people here stating some advocate school shootings! Crazy talk. And that gets a pass? Stupidity should get no pass. 

I hope you aren't referring to me because I've never said anything like that. I have said that certain people and political affiliations don't care about stopping school shootings, which is completely true. 

If you aren't talking about me then I havent seen anyone else on accuse anyone of advocating for school shootings.  

[AUFAN78 3,911]

4 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

I hope you aren't referring to me because I've never said anything like that. I have said that certain people and political affiliations don't care about stopping school shootings, which is completely true. 

If you aren't talking about me then I havent seen anyone else on accuse anyone of advocating for school shootings.  

Proverbial guilty dog bark.

@CoffeeTiger"Trying to outlaw abortion based  on religious beliefs about sanctity of life, while at the same time finding it perfectly acceptable to have frequent school shootings and children killed all because of an outdated law from the 18th century." 

I mean who finds school shootings perfectly acceptable? Nothing and I mean nothing completely true in that sentence.

[I_M4_AU 7,856]

2 hours ago, abw0004 said:

Honestly (and sadly), I think we as Americans are becoming desensitized to it.  That it is becoming the norm.  It will continue to be the norm until action is taken congressionally.

What action do you recommend Congress enact?  

[CoffeeTiger 5,121]

3 minutes ago, AUFAN78 said:

Proverbial guilty dog bark.

@CoffeeTiger"Trying to outlaw abortion based  on religious beliefs about sanctity of life, while at the same time finding it perfectly acceptable to have frequent school shootings and children killed all because of an outdated law from the 18th century." 

I mean who finds school shootings perfectly acceptable? Nothing and I mean nothing completely true in that sentence.

Yes? I stand by that remark 1000%.  Regular school shootings are considered to be an acceptable consequence of having full and open gun rights laws. Millions of Americans believe exactly that. 

I'm not trying to say they advocate or want school shootings...of course they don't want them....but at the same time they will never accept any laws or restrictions that could actually help reduce or stop the shootings. 

 

[AUFAN78 3,911]

1 minute ago, CoffeeTiger said:

Yes? I stand by that remark 1000%.  Regular school shootings are considered to be an acceptable consequence of having full and open gun rights laws. Millions of Americans believe exactly that. 

I'm not trying to say they advocate or want school shootings...of course they don't want them....but at the same time they will never accept any laws or restrictions that could actually help reduce or stop the shootings. 

 

What a pathetic statement. Considered acceptable? Horse S*** just Horse S***

But you did state that. No need to move the goalpost. I know and you know it was ignorant, but own it. You said it. Period.

[CoffeeTiger 5,121]

16 minutes ago, AUFAN78 said:

What a pathetic statement. Considered acceptable? Horse S*** just Horse S***

But you did state that. No need to move the goalpost. I know and you know it was ignorant, but own it. You said it. Period.

What are you talking about? 

Yes, I admitted I said it and I mean it. 

Don't be so obtuse. Let me put it another way. 

 

We could dramatically decrease car deaths by limiting maximum speeds of vehicles to 25mph, but we don't do that because society has deemed that all the benefits of going faster outweighs the additional costs in life that will results. 

 

Guns rights are a similar tradeoff. Having a society that has a right to cheap, easily available and easily obtained firearms with as few restrictions as possible is considered to be worth the shootings and loss of life that will inevitably result. This includes all the school shootings. 

We have plenty of available evidence and statistics from other countries that prove that tougher gun laws and restrictions almost all but eliminate school shootings but for a few very rare situations. To many Americans, these steps and laws would be unacceptable to them even if it did stop school shootings.  

 

Edited December 7, 2021 by CoffeeTiger

[AUFAN78 3,911]

12 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

What action do you recommend Congress enact?  

I'm not 0004 and won't try answering for him, but common sense gun laws and mental health evaluations should be on the table. Charging the parents is a good first step. Who lets a child take a handgun to school? Who gives a child access to handguns unsupervised? What about the school? I mean the kid has disturbing drawings of killing people, the teacher finds it takes in to admin who releases him back to class? We can do better than that. Was law enforcement called? If not why not? IMO the school has culpability in this situation too.  

[I_M4_AU 7,856]

2 minutes ago, AUFAN78 said:

I'm not 0004 and won't try answering for him, but common sense gun laws and mental health evaluations should be on the table. Charging the parents is a good first step. Who lets a child take a handgun to school? Who gives a child access to handguns unsupervised? What about the school? I mean the kid has disturbing drawings of killing people, the teacher finds it takes in to admin who releases him back to class? We can do better than that. Was law enforcement called? If not why not? IMO the school has culpability in this situation too.  

Common sense gun laws is just a catch phrase used by the left, which begs the question; whose common sense?  Mental health evaluations are good and valid until the applicant leaves the psych’s office, no further.

No question the parents had lost control of this kid, or should I say, enabled him and didn’t see what was happening.  The school probably didn’t know the particulars about his Christmas present (the gun), but there were signs that something might happen.  It was up to the parents to put 2 and 2 together in the principal’s office and stop this in its tracks.

The school is the last line of defense for this type of shooting.  There were red flags all over the place and the administrators just let it slide.  They were not pro-active at all.  They let the parents be in control and should have insisted he leave school with the parents.  Not inspecting the backpack was a mistake.  The school is culpable in this incident.

It will be good to see how this turns out.  The school’s can learn a lot about how to handle student’s that seem off the wall in a school setting.  I hope we can learn from this.

[AUFAN78 3,911]

6 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

What are you talking about? 

Yes, I admitted I said it and I mean it. 

Don't be so obtuse. Let me put it another way. 

 

We could dramatically decrease car deaths by limiting maximum speeds of vehicles to 25mph, but we don't do that because society has deemed that all the benefits of going faster outweighs the additional costs in life that will results. 

 

Guns rights are a similar tradeoff. Having a society that has a right to cheap, easily available and easily obtained firearms with as few restrictions as possible is considered to be worth the shootings and loss of life that will inevitably result. This includes all the school shootings. 

We have plenty of available evidence and statistics from other countries that prove that tougher gun laws and restrictions almost all but eliminate school shootings but for a few very rare situations. To many Americans, these steps and laws would be unacceptable to them even if it did stop school shootings.  

 

Simply talking about your ridiculous comments.

No doubt.

Obtuse? You were the one with the unintellectual commentary. I simply called it out.

Good grief with that comparison.

"easily obtained firearms with as few restrictions as possible is considered to be worth the shootings and loss of life that will inevitably result." What? Who thinks like that?

I am all for tougher gun laws. I own six at present and my children have no access to them. My children shoot with supervision. No child with mental health issues should ever have access to guns. Hopefully charging parents negligible will be a first step in the right direction. It should be the norm. Common sense gun reform is in order.

 

 

[AUFAN78 3,911]

11 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Common sense gun laws is just a catch phrase used by the left, which begs the question; whose common sense?  Mental health evaluations are good and valid until the applicant leaves the psych’s office, no further.

No question the parents had lost control of this kid, or should I say, enabled him and didn’t see what was happening.  The school probably didn’t know the particulars about his Christmas present (the gun), but there were signs that something might happen.  It was up to the parents to put 2 and 2 together in the principal’s office and stop this in its tracks.

The school is the last line of defense for this type of shooting.  There were red flags all over the place and the administrators just let it slide.  They were not pro-active at all.  They let the parents be in control and should have insisted he leave school with the parents.  Not inspecting the backpack was a mistake.  The school is culpable in this incident.

It will be good to see how this turns out.  The school’s can learn a lot about how to handle student’s that seem off the wall in a school setting.  I hope we can learn from this.

I use the phrase and perhaps it is the wrong phrase, but gun laws need to be tightened. JMO

Parenting matters.

[CoffeeTiger 5,121]

5 minutes ago, AUFAN78 said:

 

"easily obtained firearms with as few restrictions as possible is considered to be worth the shootings and loss of life that will inevitably result." What? Who thinks like that?

Many Americans. A majority of Republican voters, etc. Just because this isn't your personal view doesn't mean it's not the prevailing opinion of many Conservatives. 

 

5 minutes ago, AUFAN78 said:

I am all for tougher gun laws. I own six at present and my children have no access to them. My children shoot with supervision. No child with mental health issues should ever have access to guns. Hopefully charging parents negligible will be a first step in the right direction. It should be the norm. Common sense gun reform is in order.

 

 

Well, i give you credit for your views and beliefs on guns then and You are in a minority of Republicans. Many of your own fellow conservatives on this very forum would vigorously disagree with you that we need new or amended gun laws in America in any way. 

 

 

[AUFAN78 3,911]

6 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

Many Americans. A majority of Republican voters, etc. Just because this isn't your personal view doesn't mean it's not the prevailing opinion of many Conservatives. 

 

Well, i give you credit for your views and beliefs on guns then and You are in a minority of Republicans. Many of your own fellow conservatives on this very forum would vigorously disagree with you that we need new or amended gun laws in America in any way. 

 

 

Majority? Not sure about that, but feel free to provide statistical evidence. Many? I can go along with that, but I have bad news for you. I work with a majority democratic base and I'll be damned if they are willing to give up their guns. Facts matter.

Well, thank you! And for the record I vote independently for the best candidate. Conservative on some issues, liberal on others. I just enjoy calling out BS when I see it, particularly from a radical base on this forum.

[AU9377 4,962]

23 hours ago, autigeremt said:

It's only a matter of time before this country fractures into provincial governments. We blame objects not the people who use them unless it fits an agenda and then it's all hands on deck.  We don't want to truly fix anything.....we just want to divide and lie. Truly a sad state of affairs. 

 

At the core, what idiot of a parent buys a 15 year old a 9mm handgun?

[AUFAN78 3,911]

16 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

At the core, what idiot of a parent buys a 15 year old a 9mm handgun?

I'd allow my 15 year old to shoot a 9mm under supervision. To have free reign? No.

[AUFAN78 3,911]

https://news.gallup.com/poll/1645/guns.aspx

[CoffeeTiger 5,121]

To add credence to my argument just look at this Fox news article that attacks  Republican candidate, Dr. Oz for him wanting tightened gun laws: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/dr-oz-gun-control-ideas 

This is the only gun related article on FoxNews's main page that I could find while scanning it. 

Read all the comments below the article. It's like what I said in my comments above, for most Republicans gun control, gun laws, gun regulations of any kind is considered a non-starter, end of conversation issue. The top comment with over 150 upvotes says that this view on guns automatically makes Dr Oz a Democrat  because Republicans by and large ARE NOT ALLOWED to be in support of gun control. 

 

Edited December 7, 2021 by CoffeeTiger

[AUFAN78 3,911]

24 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

To add credence to my argument just look at this Fox news article that attacks  Republican candidate, Dr. Oz for him wanting tightened gun laws: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/dr-oz-gun-control-ideas 

This is the only gun related article on FoxNews's main page that I could find while scanning it. 

Read all the comments below the article. It's like what I said in my comments above, for most Republicans gun control, gun laws, gun regulations of any kind is considered a non-starter, end of conversation issue. The top comment with over 150 upvotes says that this view on guns automatically makes Dr Oz a Democrat  because Republicans by and large ARE NOT ALLOWED to be in support of gun control. 

 

Yeah there is some crazy rhetoric. Not all. As I noted previously, people are passionate about their guns. I don't see that changing, but I am still an advocate of increased gun laws as is my group of friends and co-workers. 

Note in the poll I added that 83% agree mental health is a concern. No way of knowing who the 17% that disagree are, but that too is troubling. Now I do recall conversation regarding the governments ability to dictate mental health and I'm not sure leaving that designation in the hands of bureaucrats is ideal. Perhaps that's where the dissent comes from. IDK. I'd imagine most or many have heard horror stories of mental health evaluations. Think ADHD drug recommendations for starters. I've personally witnessed this turning elementary grade children into zombies. Work to do. 

 

 

[AU9377 4,962]

9 hours ago, AUFAN78 said:

I'd allow my 15 year old to shoot a 9mm under supervision. To have free reign? No.

That is reasonable.  Teaching them how to use it is reasonable. I just can't get my head around giving one as a gift for Christmas & allowing the kid to put it in his sock drawer like a toy.  The kid could be an Eagle Scout and as a parent I would still worry about him showing it to someone and somehow accidentally firing it killing a friend, or a list of other potential nightmares that would scar him for life.

I was given a hunting rifle when I was 14 or 15, but I didn't keep it in my room.  It was kept with the other guns, in my dad's bedroom closet.  Today they are kept in a gun safe, other than the 12 gauge that is behind the door and not loaded.

[jj3jordan 2,055]

On 12/7/2021 at 11:44 AM, CoffeeTiger said:

Yes? I stand by that remark 1000%.  Regular school shootings are considered to be an acceptable consequence of having full and open gun rights laws. Millions of Americans believe exactly that. 

I'm not trying to say they advocate or want school shootings...of course they don't want them....but at the same time they will never accept any laws or restrictions that could actually help reduce or stop the shootings. 

 

Please enlighten us. What law that you could write or restriction that would prevent school shootings? 

[AU9377 4,962]

4 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

Please enlighten us. What law that you could write or restriction that would prevent school shootings? 

The only way to answer that would be to look at our society and compare it to other countries with similar beliefs and customs around the world.  We should be able to identify why our number of school shootings is astronomically more than those others that consist of people like us.  We then have to decide if we are simply willing to let the killing of kids in school continue or if we want to change anything in an effort to reduce the occurrences.

[jj3jordan 2,055]

1 hour ago, AU9377 said:

The only way to answer that would be to look at our society and compare it to other countries with similar beliefs and customs around the world.  We should be able to identify why our number of school shootings is astronomically more than those others that consist of people like us.  We then have to decide if we are simply willing to let the killing of kids in school continue or if we want to change anything in an effort to reduce the occurrences.

So no answer. Give a call when you have a proposal.

[CoffeeTiger 5,121]

We've recently had another school shooting AND it's near the holidays so of course it's the perfect time for Republican politicians to  throw more red meat to their base and post pictures of them and their young kids holding big guns because that's what America is all about. Heavy weaponry in the hands of kids who don't even have the discipline to look at the camera. 

 

 

Edited December 9, 2021 by CoffeeTiger

[McLoofus 35,182]

19 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

We've recently had another school shooting AND it's near the holidays so of course it's the perfect time for Republican politicians to  throw more red meat to their base and post pictures of them and their young kids holding big guns because that's what America is all about. Heavy weaponry in the hands of kids who don't even have the discipline to look at the camera. 

 

It's not the stupidity and the evil as much as the celebration of it and the support it gets from those who should know better. All three are represented in this forum. 

[jj3jordan 2,055]

1 hour ago, McLoofus said:

It's not the stupidity and the evil as much as the celebration of it and the support it gets from those who should know better. All three are represented in this forum. 

Maybe we need more of this type family.  Would YOU shoot up a school where those kids are students?