That's weird

[cole256 17,084]

Nobody made a thread or talking about that school shooting in Michigan?

[DKW 86 7,426]

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/crumbley-parents-arrested-michigan-may-start-school-shooting-legal-trend-ncna1285365

Personally havent seen much to make any calls on. Did the parents flee or leave for their own safety? IDK, NO CLUE. Hiding in the art studio? That sounds fishy. 

Why did they not take Ethan out of school as suggested by counsellors? Why did no one search his backpack and lockers? The school seemed to be doing much of the actions correctly. Holding the parents accountable? I have no problems from what I know so far.

Does anyone have an article about the couples believes?  The dad doesnt seem to be the usual kook as yet. Mom seems normal enough. Handguns and shooting were the family hobbies.

Charging Jennifer and James Crumbley with manslaughter for allegedly permitting Ethan Crumbley access to the gun used at Oxford High School sends a strong message.

 

TAP TO UNMUTE

 

 

 

 

 

Dec. 5, 2021, 4:30 AM CST

By Danny Cevallos, MSNBC legal analyst

On Friday, Oakland County, Michigan prosecutor Karen McDonald filed four counts of involuntary manslaughter against James and Jennifer Crumbley. The Crumbley’s 15-year-old son Ethan is the main suspect in a shooting on Tuesday that left four students at Oxford High School dead. (All have pleaded not guilty.)

Like many midwestern states, Michigan has a strong hunting tradition, and fully anticipates its minor children will handle firearms.

At the press conference announcing the charges, McDonald openly expressed her frustration with Michigan’s firearms laws. Like many midwestern states, Michigan has a strong hunting tradition, and fully anticipates its minor children will handle firearms. In some more rural school districts — close to where I grew up — students may take opening day of the deer season off to go hunting with a parent. That’s likely why McDonald kept stressing the importance of “responsible” gun ownership. She’s acknowledging to her constituents — and voters — that teens can have access to firearms in Michigan if done responsibly. This is in contrast to what the state alleges the Crumbleys did: allow their son access to a gun despite repeated warnings that he might use the weapon to hurt others.

 

Charging the parents with manslaughter for permitting their child access to a firearm used in a shooting is not unprecedented, but it may signal a new trend. The prosecutor here is not charging the parents under specific gun-related statutes. Rather, involuntary manslaughter can be applied to any creative theory of gross negligence that results in death. Maybe heightened parental responsibility standards is a solution that both sides of the gun debate can get behind. We can provide schools with security plans and active shooter drills, but making more parents criminally responsible could be a powerful preventative fix.

 

 

 

Oakland County sheriff: Unkown why shooter's parents were 'hiding' in Detroit warehouse

DEC. 4, 202105:37

 

 

In Michigan, there already is precedent for holding parents responsible for their child’s shootings. The Michigan Court of Appeals, as recently as 2018, upheld the involuntary manslaughter conviction of a parent whose 9-year-old son shot himself to death after the boy gained access to his dad’s unsecured shotgun. But just because prosecutors have a path to a conviction does not mean this case is a slam dunk.

Manslaughter is defined as murder without malice — that is, murder without the intent to kill. In Michigan, involuntary manslaughter is a catch-all crime that encompasses killings that are not murder, voluntary manslaughter, or a justified or excused homicide.

To convict the parents of involuntary manslaughter, the state will have to prove that the parents were “grossly negligent” in allowing their son access to a firearm, and that their gross negligence caused the deaths of the students.

Gross negligence means more than just carelessness. It means willfully disregarding the results to others from the failure to act.

To prove the parents were grossly negligent, the state will have to show that they knew of the danger posed by their son’s access to a firearm, and they failed to avert that harm.

To prove the parents were grossly negligent, the state will have to show that they knew of the danger posed by their son’s access to a firearm, and they failed to avert that harm by using ordinary care. When assessing the potential harm, it must be apparent to a reasonable person that the parents’ failure was likely to result in serious injury.

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Gross negligence is often synonymous with wantonness. Wantonness exists when the defendants know the risks but are indifferent to the results; it constitutes a higher degree of culpability than recklessness.

 

And even if the state proves the parents were grossly negligent, the state will also have to prove that their negligence “caused” the students’ deaths. Causation is an element of involuntary manslaughter which requires proof of two separate things: factual causation and proximate causation.

 

 

 

4th victim dies in Michigan school shooting, suspect pleads not guilty

DEC. 2, 202102:13

 

 

Factual causation is straightforward: it just asks whether the shootings would have happened if the parents didn’t let their son have access to the gun. Proximate causation, on the other hand, is a far more elusive concept. If the tragic deaths were not a foreseeable result of the parents’ conduct, then they might not have proximately caused them. The prosecutor will likely introduce evidence that the parents had plenty of clues that their son was dangerous. If this tragedy was foreseeable, the state will argue the parents proximately caused it.

In Michigan, manslaughter is a felony punishable by imprisonment of up to 15 years in state prison. Theoretically, with four counts for each death, the parents could face a statutory maximum of 60 years, although the facts as we know them suggest this scenario is unlikely.

As a non-hunting, non-gun-owning former Michigander, I certainly don’t speak for that state’s hunting demographic. But I suspect that the hunters I know in the Wolverine State would fully support this prosecution of James and Jennifer Crumbley.

Related

 

OPINION

We want to hear what you THINK. Please submit a letter to the editor.

Midwestern juries recognize that lots of teens have access to firearms in the home. Most of my friends in high school could easily get their hands on a single-shot 20-gauge, and their parents knew it. Those parents weren’t grossly negligent, because their kids were responsible gun users — or more precisely, their kids gave the parents no reason to believe they were dangerous gun users. In contrast, Ethan Crumbley allegedly gave both his parents and teachers multiple reasons to believe he shouldn’t be let anywhere near a deadly weapon, from his internet search history to graphic drawings he made in class referencing violence and voices in his head.

Michigan prosecutor Karen McDonald alleges the gun used at Oxford High School was left in an unlocked drawer and easily accessible, a claim his parents’ attorneys dispute. But this case is ultimately less about how a firearm was or wasn’t secured, and more about what the parents knew about the child who had access to it.

[DKW 86 7,426]

 

[DKW 86 7,426]

 

[DKW 86 7,426]

Sheriff defuses bad info.

 

[DKW 86 7,426]

May be the best info, I DO NOT VOUCH FOR THIS GUY. I have no clue whether he is truthful or not. But he has info that this is a MAGA Family. Just sharing. In Ethans Backpack was a diary and two videos that setup the PREMEDITATION of the shooting.

 

[homersapien 11,386]

13 hours ago, cole256 said:

Nobody made a thread or talking about that school shooting in Michigan?

Just another week in Amurika.

[CoffeeTiger 5,114]

 

I brought it up in another thread on here last week. 

The typical suspects  just complained that I wasn't posting about black people shooting each other in Chicago, and If I REALLY cared about peoples lives I'd focus on that and abortion,  and not on "rare" school shootings.

other than that, it was "thoughts and prayers" "no evidence guns lead to school shootings" "its Democrats fault for not passing mental health reform" 

ect ect. 

 

Kid gets life in prison. Hopefully these whackjob parents do too .

 

The school should have checked his backpack...it's sad that schools have to operate like jails, but that's where the U.S. is as a culture and society. 

 

 

 

Edited December 6, 2021 by CoffeeTiger

[I_M4_AU 7,853]

29 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

I brought it up in another thread on here last week. 

The typical suspects  just complained that I wasn't posting about black people shooting each other in Chicago, and If I REALLY cared about peoples lives I'd focus on that and abortion,  and not on "rare" school shootings.

other than that, it was "thoughts and prayers" "no evidence guns lead to school shootings" "its Democrats fault for not passing mental health reform" 

You have a twisted view of conversations.  It seems you make up stuff in your head to fit your narrative.  Are you a journalist?

[cole256 17,084]

39 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

 

I brought it up in another thread on here last week. 

The typical suspects  just complained that I wasn't posting about black people shooting each other in Chicago, and If I REALLY cared about peoples lives I'd focus on that and abortion,  and not on "rare" school shootings.

other than that, it was "thoughts and prayers" "no evidence guns lead to school shootings" "its Democrats fault for not passing mental health reform" 

ect ect. 

 

Kid gets life in prison. Hopefully these whackjob parents do too .

 

The school should have checked his backpack...it's sad that schools have to operate like jails, but that's where the U.S. is as a culture and society. 

 

 

 

Please don't tell me that really happened. You brought up the shooting and got a reply about black people killing each other?

[AU9377 4,960]

If ever parents deserved to be arrested, it is those two.

[CoffeeTiger 5,114]

6 minutes ago, cole256 said:

Please don't tell me that really happened. You brought up the shooting and got a reply about black people killing each other?

14 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

You have a twisted view of conversations.  It seems you make up stuff in your head to fit your narrative.

Don't worry, I'm not talking about you this time. 

14 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

 Are you a journalist?

 

No, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express the other night. 

[cole256 17,084]

5 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

Don't worry, I'm not talking about you this time. 

 

No, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express the other night. 

I wasn't surprised by who said it at the least.....

[AUFAN78 3,911]

2 hours ago, CoffeeTiger said:

 

I brought it up in another thread on here last week. 

The typical suspects  just complained that I wasn't posting about black people shooting each other in Chicago, and If I REALLY cared about peoples lives I'd focus on that and abortion,  and not on "rare" school shootings.

other than that, it was "thoughts and prayers" "no evidence guns lead to school shootings" "its Democrats fault for not passing mental health reform" 

ect ect. 

 

Kid gets life in prison. Hopefully these whackjob parents do too .

 

The school should have checked his backpack...it's sad that schools have to operate like jails, but that's where the U.S. is as a culture and society. 

 

 

 

For the record, your post last week was as stupid as this one. Lying is your jam. And that is not surprising to anyone. 

[CoffeeTiger 5,114]

18 minutes ago, AUFAN78 said:

For the record, your post last week was as stupid as this one. Lying is your jam. And that is not surprising to anyone. 

[autigeremt 6,643]

It's only a matter of time before this country fractures into provincial governments. We blame objects not the people who use them unless it fits an agenda and then it's all hands on deck.  We don't want to truly fix anything.....we just want to divide and lie. Truly a sad state of affairs. 

 

[AUFAN78 3,911]

3 hours ago, CoffeeTiger said:

[abw0004 10,125]

On 12/5/2021 at 7:27 PM, cole256 said:

Nobody made a thread or talking about that school shooting in Michigan?

Honestly (and sadly), I think we as Americans are becoming desensitized to it.  That it is becoming the norm.  It will continue to be the norm until action is taken congressionally.

[McLoofus 35,182]

22 hours ago, cole256 said:

Please don't tell me that really happened. You brought up the shooting and got a reply about black people killing each other?

They do it every time, man. Every time this comes up, the response from a certain group is "Why don't you care about the crime in Chicago?" or whatever. 

Never mind that much of the platform they oppose is specifically about addressing the issues that keep people poor and therefore lead to violent crime in places like Chicago. But then you suggest maybe not pumping millions of guns into the hands of civilians- in addition in trying to reduce poverty- and they freak out about that, too. 

Oh, and just wait until you point out that interstates going through major cities tend to run straight through the middle of once prosperous black neighborhoods, and how that influences our current circumstances. Always a really thoughtful and reflective response to that. 

[cole256 17,084]

22 hours ago, cole256 said:

Please don't tell me that really happened. You brought up the shooting and got a reply about black people killing each other?

The fact this question was face palmed tells alot

[cole256 17,084]

2 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

They do it every time, man. Every time this comes up, the response from a certain group is "Why don't you care about the crime in Chicago?" or whatever. 

Never mind that much of the platform they oppose is specifically about addressing the issues that keep people poor and therefore lead to violent crime in places like Chicago. But then you suggest maybe not pumping millions of guns into the hands of civilians- in addition in trying to reduce poverty- and they freak out about that, too. 

Oh, and just wait until you point out that interstates going through major cities tend to run straight through the middle of once prosperous black neighborhoods, and how that influences our current circumstances. Always a really thoughtful and reflective response to that. 

Stuff so blatant.....of course the people that never see anything on this board aren't anywhere around except when a topic involving racism pops up and then they fly in with their capes to post how it doesn't exist and want to argue everything. NEVER around to really address the ideology that's toxic that leads to it. Just want to champion on how it doesn't exist.

You know can't have anybody think that they may have had any advantages and how it's so hard you know......

[AUFAN78 3,911]

Some actually work to make things better. Others just talk sh**. Just pure sh**. Sad.

[cole256 17,084]

You let a person talk enough though....they'll be too stupid. Can't hide in plain sight forever! That's the beauty. No matter what eventually they will die out

[AUFAN78 3,911]

I mean you have people here stating some advocate school shootings! Crazy talk. And that gets a pass? Stupidity should get no pass. 

[AUFAN78 3,911]

20 minutes ago, cole256 said:

Stuff so blatant.....of course the people that never see anything on this board aren't anywhere around except when a topic involving racism pops up and then they fly in with their capes to post how it doesn't exist and want to argue everything. NEVER around to really address the ideology that's toxic that leads to it. Just want to champion on how it doesn't exist.

You know can't have anybody think that they may have had any advantages and how it's so hard you know......

Racism exists and privilege exist. Anyone saying otherwise is ignorant.