Why Feb 26, 1993 Shows That Those Who Say jan. 6, 2021 was "No Big Deal" Are Wrong.

[homersapien 11,440]

4 hours ago, McLoofus said:

And, of course, these clowns continue to ignore, diminish and normalize the role of elected officials in all this. 

We've apparently got a "healthy" contingent of these wacko's on this forum.

[McLoofus 35,182]

8 minutes ago, homersapien said:

We've apparently got a "healthy" contingent of these wacko's on this forum.

And some who aren't so obviously wacko but who sympathize with that side of things every chance they get. 

[homersapien 11,440]

3 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

And some who aren't so obviously wacko but who sympathize with that side of things every chance they get. 

A distinction without much difference.

[McLoofus 35,182]

4 minutes ago, homersapien said:

A distinction without much difference.

It's concerning. 

I think we probably all agreed that a lot of the crazies were always there, but that the difference is now they don't have to pretend otherwise. What breaks my heart is how many people don't realize their role in that. 

It's kind of like a lot of the racist rhetoric that gets thrown around in the football forum. It's never "moderated" until somebody calls it racist. Then it becomes a problem. That seems to be the case with the broader political conversation. The Proud Boys are wrong, but they're not actually a problem until someone calls them racists. And even then, they're not the problem. It's the woke people who pointed out the overt racism. 

I just realized last night that there's a frame of mind out there that questions why there are 1/6 terrorists still being held without a court date, but that never had the first shred of empathy for the BLM protests and in fact attempts to whatabout 1/6 with "they burned cities down". So you countered BlackLM with BlueLM, but now you're pissing your diaper because terrorists- actual domestic terrorists- are having a tough time getting a court date in a pandemic?

The insanity of the far right is one thing, but the task of identifying the demarcation line is indeed growing more difficult, as you said. 

[homersapien 11,440]

3 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

You brought up gaslighting and I asked you questions about the President and VP gaslighting themselves?  I did not say you defended any of the *celebration* of January 6th, just asked your opinion of their speeches.

I did say the truth lies somewhere in between the 2 extreme views.  I just can’t go all in on what this administration and most of the media are presenting as such a threat to democracy on that date.

Yeah, it's called "whataboutism".  An excellent example actually, even though there's absolutely no parallel.

And 1/6 is not exactly in the past.  Hell, it may be just the beginning.

Edited January 7, 2022 by homersapien

[SaltyTiger 7,859]

17 hours ago, autigeremt said:

January 6th was an embarrassment but it never had a chance to do anything to our government or institutions of government.  Democrats are wringing every drop they can from it…..even if the pomp and stance is made up. 

And do you blame them for “wringing every drop”? Think shoe and other foot.

Trump could and should have dispelled the nonsense very early on. Dark day regardless of being a serious threat or not.

[I_M4_AU 7,986]

2 hours ago, homersapien said:

Yeah, it's called "whataboutism".  An excellent example actually, even though there's absolutely no parallel.

And 1/6 is not exactly in the past.  Hell, it may be just the beginning.

Beginning?  Of what?

Do you see this as an annual event?

 

[SaltyTiger 7,859]

4 hours ago, homersapien said:

Yeah, it's called "whataboutism".  An excellent example actually, even though there's absolutely no parallel.

And 1/6 is not exactly in the past.  Hell, it may be just the beginning.

1/6 is the past. Hopefully a lot of folks have quietly learned from it.

[DKW 86 7,440]

21 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

There were people in the Capitol building literally trying to hunt down members of Congress.  There were chants of "Hang Mike Pence."  People were busting out windows and hammering ballistic glass doors to get where they thought Congressional members might be hiding out.  Capitol Police were violently attacked, hit in the head with heavy objects.  What some of those officers experienced was so traumatic they committed suicide in the weeks and months after.  They were trying to bust into a room where an officer was holding a gun at them telling them to back off, and they thought they could overwhelm him, and a woman was lawfully shot and killed as a result.

And you act like because some of them didn't come in and deface Statuary Hall and ransack every room they were in, it wasn't a big deal.

GTFO with that gaslighting bull****.

 

And the only person shot and killed was a protestor. No COP was killed, no COP was shot. 

OTOH Portland and the Federal Office there were burned for days. 
Wisconsin, elsewhere also burned, businesses burned out of existence. 

Who the **** is gaslighting who here?

[DKW 86 7,440]

As far as 1-6, I think some of yall want to look at the bad side only. 

Look, it did not happen, It was a fantasy that did not work and we should all Thank God for that.

We are now much more aware about events like this. Appropriate people are being prosecuted. 

Maybe more need to be. 

BUT...It failed. You need to realize that it was never going to succeed. The US Military, Congress, the American People etc were never going to allow this to happen. If you think it was ever even in the cards, you know NOTHING about American Politics. A small group of fools tried to do a thing. It failed. Move on and let go. This was ultimately nothing. It never had a chance of success. If Pence had delayed, it would have meant nothing in the end. Prosecute everyone you can, Pols if we can. But it was a failure and would certainly be a failure now.

 

Edited January 8, 2022 by DKW 86

[I_M4_AU 7,986]

Remember this gem?

Gaslighting at its best.

[AUFAN78 3,926]

Even if he wanted to, Vice President Mike Pence can’t on his own declare President Trump the winner of the 2020 presidential election when he announces the electoral vote count at a joint session of Congress on Wednesday.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2021/01/04/pence-1887-electoral-vote-count-act-trump-biden/

[AUFAN78 3,926]

Pence, in his role as president of the Senate, is scheduled to preside over Congress' certification of the results Wednesday, as detailed by the 12th Amendment. But he can't intervene in the process.

The law governing the certification process, the Electoral Count Act of 1887, specifically limits the power of the president of the Senate precisely because a president of the Senate had intervened in the count previously. 

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/fact-check-no-pence-can-t-overturn-election-results-n1252869

[Grumps 3,704]

On 1/7/2022 at 8:33 AM, TitanTiger said:

Seriously, some of you need to completely overhaul your sources of political news and commentary.  You're being fed a line of coordinated bull**** narratives even as you fancy yourself avoiding the biased narratives of the "mainstream media."  

And yet we keep coming here anyway.

[Grumps 3,704]

On 1/7/2022 at 2:02 PM, TitanTiger said:

Again...

Many were literally trying to hunt down members of Congress.  

There were chants of "Hang Mike Pence."  

People were busting out windows and hammering ballistic glass doors to get where they thought Congressional members might be hiding out.

Capitol Police were violently attacked, hit in the head with heavy objects.  

Multiple Capitol Police officers committed suicide in the weeks and months after.  

A mob of them were trying to bust into a room where an officer was holding a gun at them telling them to back off, and they thought they could overwhelm him, and a woman was lawfully shot and killed as a result.

And

347 of them are charged with felonies out of 700+ arrested thus far.

 

It's mindnumbingly oblivious or willfully sticking one's fingers in their ears shouting "LA LA LA CAN'T HEAR YOU" to sit there and say it wasn't a serious attempt to do anything.  Good Lord, have a seat before you lose whatever tatters of credibility you still have left.

 

All of the things you list did actually happen. It was disgusting and should never have happened. But none of the things on your list mean that there was an actual attempt to overthrow the government. I don't think anyone meant to say that there wasn't an attempt to do ANYTHING, just that there wasn't an attempt to overthrow the government.

[TitanTiger 20,510]

On 1/9/2022 at 2:04 PM, Grumps said:

All of the things you list did actually happen. It was disgusting and should never have happened. But none of the things on your list mean that there was an actual attempt to overthrow the government. I don't think anyone meant to say that there wasn't an attempt to do ANYTHING, just that there wasn't an attempt to overthrow the government.

There was an actual attempt.  There was the attempt by Trump to manipulate Pence into not certifying the electors and throwing the election into the state legislatures and House of Representatives.  And there was the effort by the insurrectionists to intimidate, bully, threaten, apprehend and even kill members of Congress and Mike Pence for not going along with it.

You can live in some gnat-straining dream world where that isn't an "actual" attempt if you want, but reality says otherwise.  You're offering a master class in cognitive dissonance.

[McLoofus 35,182]

Did over 140 Republicans in Congress not vote to overturn election results?

 

[jj3jordan 2,060]

1 hour ago, McLoofus said:

Did over 140 Republicans in Congress not vote to overturn election results?

 

Yes as they should have. Much like some democrats likewise voted in 2016.

[homersapien 11,440]

On 1/7/2022 at 7:51 PM, SaltyTiger said:

1/6 is the past. Hopefully a lot of folks have quietly learned from it.

Not judging from the casual dismissal of it's significance - by some on this very forum - of what it represented. 

Challenging election results has now become just another tool in the Republican box of tactics to retain power in an undemocratic way.

We shall see in 2022 and 2024.

[jj3jordan 2,060]

4 hours ago, homersapien said:

Not judging from the casual dismissal of it's significance - by some on this very forum - of what it represented. 

Challenging election results has now become just another tool in the Republican box of tactics to retain power in an undemocratic way.

We shall see in 2022 and 2024.

We learned about challenging election results in 2000 and 2016.  From the democrats.  You act like it's never happened.  The wrong side was doing it I guess.

[wdefromtx 3,159]

21 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

We learned about challenging election results in 2000 and 2016.  From the democrats.  You act like it's never happened.  The wrong side was doing it I guess.

Of course, it's par for the course for democrats. 

[TitanTiger 20,510]

15 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

We learned about challenging election results in 2000 and 2016.  From the democrats.  You act like it's never happened.  The wrong side was doing it I guess.

You're like a living, breathing master class in false equivalence.

[jj3jordan 2,060]

1 hour ago, TitanTiger said:

You're like a living, breathing master class in false equivalence.

Thank you. I'll take the compliment. Claiming false equivalence is the only way to deflect and cast doubt on the topic. It is literally the same thing as stated by homer in the post above. It's amusing that you don't see a bunch of partisan geezers staring at a blank untouched ballot with a magnifying glass and then proudly proclaiming a vote for Al Gore as similar to filing lawsuits requesting audits of suspicious vote counting. No judge ever saw the evidence presented in 2020, they dismissed suits for standing or on technicalities. In 2000 there was a nearly month long examination of ballots with various stages of chads. BTW no method of counting or chadding ever produced a Gore win despite numerous recounts by various groups. Also in my county, okaloosa, Gore's lawyers were able to throw out 1500 ballots that had Bush legally marked but also had Bush written at the bottom in the write-in section.  Some rednecks apparently thought to be sure to show they were clearly for Bush, they went a little overboard.  So it really wasn't as close as reported. As a footnote hilarity ensued when the "journalists" and other apparatchiks were kicked out of their hotels in tallahassee to make way for UF/FSU fans with reservations for their big game. 

[CoffeeTiger 5,169]

11 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

Thank you. I'll take the compliment. Claiming false equivalence is the only way to deflect and cast doubt on the topic. It is literally the same thing as stated by homer in the post above. It's amusing that you don't see a bunch of partisan geezers staring at a blank untouched ballot with a magnifying glass and then proudly proclaiming a vote for Al Gore as similar to filing lawsuits requesting audits of suspicious vote counting. No judge ever saw the evidence presented in 2020, they dismissed suits for standing or on technicalities. In 2000 there was a nearly month long examination of ballots with various stages of chads. BTW no method of counting or chadding ever produced a Gore win despite numerous recounts by various groups. Also in my county, okaloosa, Gore's lawyers were able to throw out 1500 ballots that had Bush legally marked but also had Bush written at the bottom in the write-in section.  Some rednecks apparently thought to be sure to show they were clearly for Bush, they went a little overboard.  So it really wasn't as close as reported. As a footnote hilarity ensued when the "journalists" and other apparatchiks were kicked out of their hotels in tallahassee to make way for UF/FSU fans with reservations for their big game. 

I wouldn't take it as a compliment. 

 

No, the situations are completely different. 

After the supreme court ruled that Florida couldn't conduct a recount Al Gore conceded the race and then proceeded over the joint congressional session that certified Bush's win. 

 

Also no judge ever saw any evidence in 2020 because there has never been any evidence from anyone. That's a fact. 

[TitanTiger 20,510]

15 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

Thank you. I'll take the compliment. Claiming false equivalence is the only way to deflect and cast doubt on the topic.

No, it's literally the truth.  I don't have any need to defend Gore or Hillary.  Didn't vote for either.  Didn't want either of them to become President.

 

15 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

It is literally the same thing as stated by homer in the post above. It's amusing that you don't see a bunch of partisan geezers staring at a blank untouched ballot with a magnifying glass and then proudly proclaiming a vote for Al Gore as similar to filing lawsuits requesting audits of suspicious vote counting.

The difference in Florida was literally hundreds of votes.  Not thousands.  Not tens of thousands.  And the count changed based on what counting standard you employed.  Did the punch have to go all the way through?  What if it punctured the ballot but the paper tag ("hanging chad") was still intact?  What if you could clearly see a dent but for whatever reason the tool didn't puncture the card?  

In the end, it didn't matter and Gore would have lost under any of the counting standards but the process and each sides challenges to the count were reasonable.

 

15 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

No judge ever saw the evidence presented in 2020, they dismissed suits for standing or on technicalities.

The fact that you still really believe this is why Trump lost makes me question literally anything you say.  Like, credibility is subterranean at this point.

 

15 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

In 2000 there was a nearly month long examination of ballots with various stages of chads. BTW no method of counting or chadding ever produced a Gore win despite numerous recounts by various groups. Also in my county, okaloosa, Gore's lawyers were able to throw out 1500 ballots that had Bush legally marked but also had Bush written at the bottom in the write-in section.  Some rednecks apparently thought to be sure to show they were clearly for Bush, they went a little overboard.  So it really wasn't as close as reported. As a footnote hilarity ensued when the "journalists" and other apparatchiks were kicked out of their hotels in tallahassee to make way for UF/FSU fans with reservations for their big game. 

Nonetheless, what Trump attempted to pull off in 2020 isn't in the same galaxy as what happened in 2000 or 2016.