Why Feb 26, 1993 Shows That Those Who Say jan. 6, 2021 was "No Big Deal" Are Wrong.

[jj3jordan 2,060]

5 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

No, it's literally the truth.  I don't have any need to defend Gore or Hillary.  Didn't vote for either.  Didn't want either of them to become President.

 

The difference in Florida was literally hundreds of votes.  Not thousands.  Not tens of thousands.  And the count changed based on what counting standard you employed.  Did the punch have to go all the way through?  What if it punctured the ballot but the paper tag ("hanging chad") was still intact?  What if you could clearly see a dent but for whatever reason the tool didn't puncture the card?  

In the end, it didn't matter and Gore would have lost under any of the counting standards but the process and each sides challenges to the count were reasonable.

 

The fact that you still really believe this is why Trump lost makes me question literally anything you say.  Like, credibility is subterranean at this point.

 

Nonetheless, what Trump attempted to pull off in 2020 isn't in the same galaxy as what happened in 2000 or 2016.  

 

2000 was an attempt by Gore to reverse a very close election by flooding the state with lawyers and lawsuits trying to read the minds of voters who did not complete the ballot correctly.  There is no other standard except punching out the chad. All democrat run and administered counties.

2016 was an attempt to reverse the results of the election by marshaling the forces of the FBI CIA NSA DOJ and others against Trump because he had the audacity to outwork and out campaign Hillary.

2020 was an attempt by Trump to reverse close races in several states by filing lawsuits where he thought voting irregularities occurred.  I personally witnessed very unusual vote reporting anomalies I have never seen before such as Trumps vote total going DOWN during an update. I have never seen that before and I am pretty sure you haven't either. If you saw Hillary lose several thousand votes during an update in Wisconsin or Michgan say and she lost by a few thousand votes are you implying you would not investigate that?  I would.

The democrats started all this election challenging horse crap in 2000 because they could not accept defeat to an inferior candidate (at least in their minds).  You think it wasn't going to escalate? 

[jj3jordan 2,060]

21 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

I wouldn't take it as a compliment. 

 

No, the situations are completely different. 

After the supreme court ruled that Florida couldn't conduct a recount Al Gore conceded the race and then proceeded over the joint congressional session that certified Bush's win. 

 

Also no judge ever saw any evidence in 2020 because there has never been any evidence from anyone. That's a fact. 

Sorry your "facts" are wrong. Florida did conduct recounts in accordance with it constitution. Gore wanted more recounts after the initial recounts still had him losing. The supreme court allowed any and all recounts but only to the date established by the state constitution. The case was decided legally and lawfully.  When the recount date was reached, it was stopped.  FWIW, numerous agencies continued to recount after the cut off date and ALL FAILED TO PRODUCE A GORE WIN.  

I know what you mean though that they  were different.

[TitanTiger 20,510]

5 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

2000 was an attempt by Gore to reverse a very close election by flooding the state with lawyers and lawsuits trying to read the minds of voters who did not complete the ballot correctly.  There is no other standard except punching out the chad. All democrat run and administered counties.

2000 was a legitimate recount.  The difference was hundreds of votes.  Both sides flooded Florida with lawyers attempting to advocate for counting standard they believed would benefit their side the most.  In the end, it didn't matter.  But when it literally comes down to one state by 500 or so votes, you do a thorough recount.  Period.

 

5 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

2016 was an attempt to reverse the results of the election by marshaling the forces of the FBI CIA NSA DOJ and others against Trump because he had the audacity to outwork and out campaign Hillary.

lol ok.

 

5 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

2020 was an attempt by Trump to reverse close races in several states by filing lawsuits where he thought voting irregularities occurred.  I personally witnessed very unusual vote reporting anomalies I have never seen before such as Trumps vote total going DOWN during an update. I have never seen that before and I am pretty sure you haven't either. If you saw Hillary lose several thousand votes during an update in Wisconsin or Michgan say and she lost by a few thousand votes are you implying you would not investigate that?  I would.

2020 was an attempt by Trump and his worshippers to obfuscate, lie, plant seeds of doubt and confusion, make up idiotic and ridiculous legal arguments to get Pence to not certify the results, proffer baseless rumors and arguments that voting machines had been rigged, hacked or otherwise manipulated to change the results.  In no state where any investigation was done was there found any significant issues that would have even come close to reversing the results of the election.  It was complete and total bull**** because he knew he was in trouble.  He just repeats the bull**** over and over with full confidence and easy marks like yourself eat it up like it's a ribeye steak buffet at Golden Corral.

 

5 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

The democrats started all this election challenging horse crap in 2000 because they could not accept defeat to an inferior candidate (at least in their minds).  You think it wasn't going to escalate? 

The Democrats didn't "start" anything in 2000.  The race came down to one state and the margin was razor thin, triggering an automatic recount.  It was entirely reasonable for them to do so and to advocate for their candidate, just as Bush's legal team advocated for theirs.  In the end, the correct result was ascertained no matter what counting standard was employed.  It is not anything like the crap Trump tried to pull and that gullible people fell for in 2020.

[homersapien 11,440]

Damn Titan. 

Where do you get the patience?    

Do you have a bunch of kids?

Edited January 13, 2022 by homersapien

[DKW 86 7,440]

Why do Democrats Hate Democracy for such a long time?

https://www.cnn.com/2005/ALLPOLITICS/01/06/electoral.vote.1718/

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/democrats-who-praised-2004-objections-to-electoral-college-certification-now-slam-hawley

1-6-2005 - 3 Hours of Democrats trying to stop the 2005 Certification: 
https://www.c-span.org/video/?185005-2/debate-ohio-electoral-vote-objection

https://www.the-sun.com/news/2060047/pelosi-democrats-hypocrisy-objecting-bush-win-gop-challenges/

https://www.nytimes.com/2001/01/07/us/over-some-objections-congress-certifies-electoral-vote.html

2018, Democrats Challenge Electoral College Results and want new laws.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-vote-lawsuit/lawsuits-challenge-electoral-college-system-in-four-u-s-states-idUSKCN1G52HY

Four Times the Results of a Presidential Election Were Contested
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/rigged-vote-four-us-presidential-elections-contested-results-180961033/

Republicans tried to flip Electoral College voters too — look at 2008
https://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/308379-remember-when-republicans-tried-to-stop-obama-with

2001 Over Some Objections, Congress Certifies Electoral Vote
https://www.nytimes.com/2001/01/07/us/over-some-objections-congress-certifies-electoral-vote.html

Democrats who praised 2004 objections to Electoral College certification now slam Hawley

Democrats objected to electoral vote certification last 3 times a Republican was elected president

 

[DKW 86 7,440]

2017: Gore still says he won Florida...
https://www.thedailybeast.com/al-gore-tells-bill-maher-that-he-won-the-2000-election-i-think-i-carried-florida

1-28-2001 GORE WON FLORIDA
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/jan/29/uselections2000.usa

DEMOCRATS SHOULD REMEMBER AL GORE WON FLORIDA IN 2000

Kerry revives 2004 election allegations
https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna14573946

NPR: Clinton Won't Rule Out Questioning 2016 Election

Politico: Clinton won't rule out challenging legitimacy of 2016 election

Hillary Clinton Maintains 2016 Election ‘Was Not On the Level’

 

Yahoo: Hillary Clinton Maintains 2016 Election ‘Was Not On the Level’

LSE: Many Democrats think that the 2016 election result was rigged

 

 

[CoffeeTiger 5,169]

I'm still amazed that people on here are trying to seriously argue that several  Democrats questioning election integrity over the past 20 years as being completely equal and equivalent to what the entire Republican party is doing in 2020-present. 

In a typical election there will be 1-3 Democrats who object to the certification. in 2020, 100+ Republicans objected. 

In a typical election that Democrats lose, the Dem candidate may say "I believe there was some funny business going on in an interview once or twice every year....but that'll be the end of it, Dem lawmakers wont repeat it, it wont be made an official Dem talking point....people move on. 

Trump and several prominent Republicans are saying outright saying the election was stolen from him on a near daily basis since he lost. It's become the central Republican platform and talking point. 

@DKW 86 , Nobody is saying that a Democrat has never voiced an objection to election integrity or vote certification. We 1000% acknowledge they have in the past. 

What is undisputable fact is that Democrats have NEVER done anything even remotely close to the full court blitz that Republicans have put on to wholesale accuse the election of being stolen, having 100+ lawmakers vote against certification, having a President refuse to concede and forever claim the election was stolen and must be given back to him. Never have the Democrats had the popular support for turning over elections that Republicans have from their base. 

 

There's no equivalent. What Democrats did 22 years ago in Florida is not anywhere even remotely in the same universe of what Republicans have done and are currently doing. Gore and the Dems conceded quickly and the government and life moved on even if some Dems weren't happy about it....right now republicans Refuse to let anyone move on and is using their "stolen election" lie to try and change 100's of voting laws, enact more restrictions, and put more power out of the hands of independent election board and into the hands of Republican State legislators. 

 

[DKW 86 7,440]

11 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

I'm still amazed that people on here are trying to seriously argue that several  Democrats questioning election integrity over the past 20 years as being completely equal and equivalent to what the entire Republican party is doing in 2020-present. 

In a typical election there will be 1-3 Democrats who object to the certification. in 2020, 100+ Republicans objected. 

In a typical election that Democrats lose, the Dem candidate may say "I believe there was some funny business going on in an interview once or twice every year....but that'll be the end of it, Dem lawmakers wont repeat it, it wont be made an official Dem talking point....people move on. 

Trump and several prominent Republicans are saying outright saying the election was stolen from him on a near daily basis since he lost. It's become the central Republican platform and talking point. 

@DKW 86 , Nobody is saying that a Democrat has never voiced an objection to election integrity or vote certification. We 1000% acknowledge they have in the past. 

What is undisputable fact is that Democrats have NEVER done anything even remotely close to the full court blitz that Republicans have put on to wholesale accuse the election of being stolen, having 100+ lawmakers vote against certification, having a President refuse to concede and forever claim the election was stolen and must be given back to him. Never have the Democrats had the popular support for turning over elections that Republicans have from their base. 

 

There's no equivalent. What Democrats did 22 years ago in Florida is not anywhere even remotely in the same universe of what Republicans have done and are currently doing. Gore and the Dems conceded quickly and the government and life moved on even if some Dems weren't happy about it....right now republicans Refuse to let anyone move on and is using their "stolen election" lie to try and change 100's of voting laws, enact more restrictions, and put more power out of the hands of independent election board and into the hands of Republican State legislators. 

 

That acknowledgement was all I was looking for. Their were no irregularities in 2000, 2004, 2008, 2016, nor 2020 that would have altered one electoral college vote nor changed an election outcome. Unfortunately, over the years the level of crazy has swung out of control, as per norm for the US population. That TRUTH has not stopped all the likely suspects from going show after show spewing their hatred for Democracy by claiming some outlandish lies FOR THE LAST 22 years. 

It has gotten to the level that we see what trump has done with it. trump is the worst, no doubt at any level. But anyone that has lied their own asses of for the last 22 years or so must take their fair share of the blame for where we are today. 

Edited January 13, 2022 by DKW 86

[I_M4_AU 7,983]

1 hour ago, CoffeeTiger said:

I'm still amazed that people on here are trying to seriously argue that several  Democrats questioning election integrity over the past 20 years as being completely equal and equivalent to what the entire Republican party is doing in 2020-present. 

What amazes me is even though the Democrats won in 2020 by the popular vote and more people voted in 2020 than any other election to date, are stumping on voter reform and decrying voter suppression.  

[CoffeeTiger 5,169]

20 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

What amazes me is even though the Democrats won in 2020 by the popular vote and more people voted in 2020 than any other election to date, are stumping on voter reform and decrying voter suppression.  

So we're just going to completely sgnore how the Democratic voting reform push is a direct reaction to Republican states passing hundreds of their own "voter reform" to pervert the election system in their favor? 

 

Like Republicans are the ones whose started changing all the voting laws because they are sore losers. 

Edited January 13, 2022 by CoffeeTiger

[TitanTiger 20,510]

1 hour ago, I_M4_AU said:

What amazes me is even though the Democrats won in 2020 by the popular vote and more people voted in 2020 than any other election to date, are stumping on voter reform and decrying voter suppression.  

Are you under the impression that the Democrats just poofed this voting rights stuff out of thin air and that it's not in reaction to anything prior?

[homersapien 11,440]

On 1/9/2022 at 3:04 PM, Grumps said:

All of the things you list did actually happen. It was disgusting and should never have happened. But none of the things on your list mean that there was an actual attempt to overthrow the government. I don't think anyone meant to say that there wasn't an attempt to do ANYTHING, just that there wasn't an attempt to overthrow the government.

It was a violent and extralegal attempt to overturn a legal election and reinstate the loser of that election.

How's that?

(edited for the sake of pedantic Grumps)

 

 

Edited January 14, 2022 by homersapien

[McLoofus 35,182]

4 minutes ago, homersapien said:

It was an attempt to overturn a legal election and reinstate the loser of that election.

How's that?

If that person were honestly seeking an answer to the question, they wouldn't have had to ask this late in the game. 
 

[homersapien 11,440]

2 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

What amazes me is even though the Democrats won in 2020 by the popular vote and more people voted in 2020 than any other election to date, are stumping on voter reform and decrying voter suppression.  

I can easily easily see how that would "amaze" a Republican.

Another party promoting a popular democracy and acting in the country's interest instead of their own??!!   

[McLoofus 35,182]

7 minutes ago, homersapien said:

I can easily easily see how that would "amaze" a Republican.

Another party promoting a popular democracy and acting in the country's interest instead of their own??!!   

Yeah, and it's interesting that the most preposterous candidate in history actually got close enough to make his zombie nation wonder and Dems are supposed to just shut up and be grateful they won at all.

Idiots, saying stupid things for attention. Just like the boss. 

[autigeremt 6,685]

2 hours ago, CoffeeTiger said:

So we're just going to completely sgnore how the Democratic voting reform push is a direct reaction to Republican states passing hundreds of their own "voter reform" to pervert the election system in their favor? 

 

Like Republicans are the ones whose started changing all the voting laws because they are sore losers. 

I remember Democrats doing the same thing leading up to the election. Ying and yang but hey....keep smelling the daisies. 

[autigeremt 6,685]

3 minutes ago, autigeremt said:

I remember Democrats doing the same thing leading up to the election. Ying and yang but hey....keep smelling the daisies. 

ICHY for the win.....LMAO 

[homersapien 11,440]

12 minutes ago, autigeremt said:

I remember Democrats doing the same thing leading up to the election. Ying and yang but hey....keep smelling the daisies. 

Please provide that example.

[I_M4_AU 7,983]

2 hours ago, CoffeeTiger said:

So we're just going to completely sgnore how the Democratic voting reform push is a direct reaction to Republican states passing hundreds of their own "voter reform" to pervert the election system in their favor? 

 

Like Republicans are the ones whose started changing all the voting laws because they are sore losers. 

Actually the states that are pushing reform are allowed by the Constitution to do so.  The Democrats are trying to make voting rights come under Federal guidelines against the intent of the Constitution.  And don’t forget, Biden wants this done so badly, he is willing to get rid of the filibuster to do it.

I hope it doesn’t pass or even get that far.

Oh, and who changed all the voting laws because of COVID?  The states that are changing the voting rules are just trying to tighten up the looseness of the COVID days IMO.

[I_M4_AU 7,983]

3 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

Are you under the impression that the Democrats just poofed this voting rights stuff out of thin air and that it's not in reaction to anything prior?

I think it is a power grab to put voting rights for states under Federal guidelines.  Unconstitutional, but that is what Biden is all about.  Why is he pushing getting rid of the filibuster for this issue?  Why can’t he follow the rules as written instead of tearing down everything to replace it with what he conceives as something better?

Edited January 13, 2022 by I_M4_AU

[I_M4_AU 7,983]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

I can easily easily see how that would "amaze" a Republican.

Another party promoting a popular democracy and acting in the country's interest instead of their own??!!   

Explain how putting voting rights under Federal control is in the best interest of the country?  The individual states have the right to govern their own voting rights under the Constitution.

[Grumps 3,704]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

It was an attempt to overturn a legal election and reinstate the loser of that election.

How's that?

 

I agree.  Trump tried to do whatever he could to win the election that he lost. You did GREAT!!!

[jj3jordan 2,060]

If Biden forces this bill on the population, it will ultimately end up at the supreme court where hopefully it’s unconstitutionality will be exposed and repealed. 

Edited January 14, 2022 by jj3jordan

[autigeremt 6,685]

It's clear and obvious that Democrats want total control of the country (Republicans would do the same if given the chance) and could care less about the Constitution unless it fits into their narrative. Most of them want it trashed to begin with. 

It's time for a reset. 

[homersapien 11,440]

16 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

Actually the states that are pushing reform are allowed by the Constitution to do so.  The Democrats are trying to make voting rights come under Federal guidelines against the intent of the Constitution.  And don’t forget, Biden wants this done so badly, he is willing to get rid of the filibuster to do it.

I hope it doesn’t pass or even get that far.

Oh, and who changed all the voting laws because of COVID?  The states that are changing the voting rules are just trying to tighten up the looseness of the COVID days IMO.

Apparently, you're not old enough to have witnessed the Jim Crow south in person.

There is nothing unconstitutional about the federal government legislating the expansion of voting rights when states restrict them.