Can we agree this deeply rooted in white supremacy?

[TexasTiger 13,028]

28 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

There's no reason to be celebrating figures from the side that rebelled against and attacked our country, primarily for the purpose of preserving slavery, and quite justly lost.  The states that left for the CSA have been reincorporated into the United States of America and that's the country we should care about.

That doesn't mean we "forget our history" but it does affect *how* we choose to remember it.  Believe me, no one in Germany has forgotten Hitler, the Nazi Party, the Third Reich, the SS, Brownshirts and Gestapo.  But neither do they erect statues of Hitler, Goebbels, Himmler, and Rommel.  Flying a Nazi flag with a swastika is not seen as "heritage, not hate."  Nazi history is well known and not hidden.  But it's in museums, textbooks, WWII and Holocaust memorials.  That is how you don't forget your history.  Statues, memorials and holidays are for honoring people and events that are worthy of being honored or celebrated.

And this is how Confederate history should be largely treated.  It's a shameful period in American history and the CSA was a country set up for mostly wrong and terrible reasons and we should learn from the errors of that time.  But there's no reason to be honoring it or any of its figures.

 

 

 

Perfectly stated.

[AUDub 11,184]

10 hours ago, AUDub said:

You're a stark raving lunatic if you think Sherman "salted the land" lol. Do you know how much salt it takes to make land un-arable, and how valuable of a commodity it was during the war?

The "salt the earth" canard stems from the apocryphal tale of Scipio plowing and salting Carthage.

The Confederacy was all about the classics.

[homersapien 11,453]

13 hours ago, Mims44 said:

I really need to be in bed... but I can't help myself.

 

 

"The War" was about secession. Wanna start the discussion again where you say I am obfuscating the truth with my facts?  

Still one of my all time favs btw  

And WHY was the south succeeding??

Shouldn't we believe there own words in determining that?  They were very clear about it.

 

https://www.supersummary.com/apostles-of-disunion/summary/

 

https://www.amazon.com/Apostles-Disunion-Southern-Secession-Commissioners/dp/0813939445/ref=sr_1_1?adgrpid=1331509144162833&hvadid=83219392369620&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=81117&hvnetw=o&hvqmt=e&hvtargid=kwd-83219662712614%3Aloc-190&hydadcr=22560_10443888&keywords=apostles+of+disunion&qid=1686848946&sr=8-1

[cole256 17,084]

On 6/15/2023 at 7:33 AM, TitanTiger said:

There's no reason to be celebrating figures from the side that rebelled against and attacked our country, primarily for the purpose of preserving slavery, and quite justly lost.  The states that left for the CSA have been reincorporated into the United States of America and that's the country we should care about.

That doesn't mean we "forget our history" but it does affect *how* we choose to remember it.  Believe me, no one in Germany has forgotten Hitler, the Nazi Party, the Third Reich, the SS, Brownshirts and Gestapo.  But neither do they erect statues of Hitler, Goebbels, Himmler, and Rommel.  Flying a Nazi flag with a swastika is not seen as "heritage, not hate."  Nazi history is well known and not hidden.  But it's in museums, textbooks, WWII and Holocaust memorials.  That is how you don't forget your history.  Statues, memorials and holidays are for honoring people and events that are worthy of being honored or celebrated.

And this is how Confederate history should be largely treated.  It's a shameful period in American history and the CSA was a country set up for mostly wrong and terrible reasons and we should learn from the errors of that time.  But there's no reason to be honoring it or any of its figures.

 

 

 

The forgotten history take has always been mind boggling to me. I can't believe there is still a high school named after a kkk grand wizard and some will still pretty much be like "I don't see an issue with it. 

It's just really weird the things some choose to stand up and fight about as opposed to other situations where the people will be docile about. 

That area is super conservative and rural, they would probably go crazy about a rainbow flag at the school but they'd be damned if they changed the name.

[Cardin Drake 1,855]

5 minutes ago, cole256 said:

The forgotten history take has always been mind boggling to me. I can't believe there is still a high school named after a kkk grand wizard and some will still pretty much be like "I don't see an issue with it. 

It's just really weird the things some choose to stand up and fight about as opposed to other situations where the people will be docile about. 

That area is super conservative and rural, they would probably go crazy about a rainbow flag at the school but they'd be damned if they changed the name.

It is amazing. You would think a college named after a slave trader wouldn't be possible today, but there  it is--Yale University.

[cole256 17,084]

3 minutes ago, Cardin Drake said:

It is amazing. You would think a college named after a slave trader wouldn't be possible today, but there  it is--Yale University.

I could actually see that before a grade school. I don't know but I'm assuming Yale is a private school, so I don't agree but I can see debates and arguments being made there. 

But a government funded institution? They would literally be going crazy right now about critical race theory while their school is named after I guess in their eyes the greatest klansman. 

[Son of A Tiger 561]

On 6/14/2023 at 12:13 PM, alexava said:

Define white supremacy?

[AUDub 11,184]

1 hour ago, Cardin Drake said:

It is amazing. You would think a college named after a slave trader wouldn't be possible today, but there  it is--Yale University.

While he was intimately tied to the institution he was never a slave trader.

Plenty to not like about Elihu Yale. 

[Cardin Drake 1,855]

Oh, his slave trading past was documented prominently on Wikipedia until the lefties revised it when the controversy started.

[AUDub 11,184]

6 minutes ago, Cardin Drake said:

Oh, his slave trading past was documented prominently on Wikipedia until the lefties revised it when the controversy started.

Nah his biggest crimes would be the blood diamonds and brutal colonialism in India and South Africa. 
 

Again, plenty to dislike without having to make stuff up lol. 

[Cardin Drake 1,855]

Wikipedia, 2016 (Thanks wayback machine)

The records of this period mention a flourishing slave trade in Madras, a trade in which Yale participated. He enforced a law that at least ten slaves should be carried on every ship bound for Europe. In his capacity as judge he also on several occasions sentenced so-called "black criminals" to whipping and enslavement. When the demand began to increase rapidly, the English merchants even began to kidnap young children and deport them to distant parts of the world, very much against their will. At a time when profits from the slavetrade were dwindling and pressure from the Mughal government to stop the enslavement was mounting, the administration of Fort St George eventually stepped in and introduced laws to curb enslavement. [6]

Wikipedia today:

One of Elihu Yale's responsibilities as president of Fort St George was overseeing its slave trade, though he was never a slave trader.

So by this logic Pablo Escobar was never a drug dealer, he was merely overseeing the drug trade in Columbia. SMH.

[homersapien 11,453]

3 hours ago, Cardin Drake said:

It is amazing. You would think a college named after a slave trader wouldn't be possible today, but there  it is--Yale University.

What Confederate unit did he fight in? 

[Son of A Tiger 561]

The author of "Amazing Grace" was a former slave trader. So some people change and maybe we shouldn't judge them by their whole life history.

Biography of John Newton, Author of Amazing Grace (learnreligions.com)

[AuCivilEng1 11,026]

2 hours ago, Son of A Tiger said:

That was a good definition! I was going to go with thinking only white people with white names are able to write trustworthy articles. You know. Like this..

 

[AUDub 11,184]

1 hour ago, Cardin Drake said:

Wikipedia, 2016 (Thanks wayback machine)

The records of this period mention a flourishing slave trade in Madras, a trade in which Yale participated. He enforced a law that at least ten slaves should be carried on every ship bound for Europe. In his capacity as judge he also on several occasions sentenced so-called "black criminals" to whipping and enslavement. When the demand began to increase rapidly, the English merchants even began to kidnap young children and deport them to distant parts of the world, very much against their will. At a time when profits from the slavetrade were dwindling and pressure from the Mughal government to stop the enslavement was mounting, the administration of Fort St George eventually stepped in and introduced laws to curb enslavement. [6]

Wikipedia today:

One of Elihu Yale's responsibilities as president of Fort St George was overseeing its slave trade, though he was never a slave trader.

So by this logic Pablo Escobar was never a drug dealer, he was merely overseeing the drug trade in Columbia. SMH.

Nothing in there is contradictory. 

There's a distinction between overseeing or administration and actually being a slave trader.

[Son of A Tiger 561]

50 minutes ago, AuCivilEng1 said:

That was a good definition! I was going to go with thinking only white people with white names are able to write trustworthy articles. You know. Like this..

 

My comment had nothing to do with race but you seem to be obsessed with race.

[AuCivilEng1 11,026]

2 minutes ago, Son of A Tiger said:

My comment had nothing to do with race but you seem to be obsessed with race.

Which comment of yours are you talking about? The one where the person with an ethnic name wasn't a good source, because of their name or the one where you are talking about giving up your white card and complaining because white people have it so hard? 

[Son of A Tiger 561]

3 minutes ago, AuCivilEng1 said:

Which comment of yours are you talking about? The one where the person with an ethnic name wasn't a good source, because of their name or the one where you are talking about giving up your white card and complaining because white people have it so hard? 

The one in the post you copied in a response.

[AuCivilEng1 11,026]

Just now, Son of A Tiger said:

The one in the post you copied in a response.

Haha. How is that not about race? Really? What else could your comment be about? And why did you delete it?

Most people that are this racist are normally pretty open and unapologetic about it or they are really good at hiding it and swear they aren't racist, and one would have to pick up on subtle hints. But you seem to be stuck in this neutral purgatory where you swear you aren't racist, but are openly saying racist stuff. It's really interesting, tbh. I've never met someone like you. 

[Leftfield 2,664]

On 6/9/2023 at 11:29 AM, cole256 said:

I really do believe it's because in their families and circles they know they have racist people that they love, and they are defending love ones. 

That and they get offended to think they had any type of advantage or anything like that. They look at it like you are calling them lazy or something or you aren't recognizing the work, sweat, tears that they have had thru life. 

Lately they don't experience it. It's like talking about a ghost, or dinosaurs or something. Is it even real, if it doesn't effect you or your world. And even if it is real can you really get a genuine appreciation or understanding of the pain and damage if you don't see it or feel it? 

 

4 hours ago, Son of A Tiger said:

Congratulations on providing the perfect example.

 

[cbo 7,927]

6 hours ago, Son of A Tiger said:

Do you think white privilege means you get everything for free and you don't have to work or pay taxes? Is that the most nuanced analysis you can manage or, rather, copy off the internet?

[Son of A Tiger 561]

6 hours ago, AuCivilEng1 said:

Haha. How is that not about race? Really? What else could your comment be about? And why did you delete it?

Most people that are this racist are normally pretty open and unapologetic about it or they are really good at hiding it and swear they aren't racist, and one would have to pick up on subtle hints. But you seem to be stuck in this neutral purgatory where you swear you aren't racist, but are openly saying racist stuff. It's really interesting, tbh. I've never met someone like you. 

You are so full of crap it's pitiful. My comment on the author had NOTHING to do with race. I didn't even know who he was let alone make any racial comment. I had just never heard of him hence my comment. Oh but  you think you are so good you can read minds. What racial stuff am am I saying? Believe me I'm not in any kind of purgatory and you are hopefully one of a kind.

 

 

 

[cbo 7,927]

20 minutes ago, Son of A Tiger said:

You are so full of crap it's pitiful. My comment on the author had NOTHING to do with race. I didn't even know who he was let alone make any racial comment. I had just never heard of him hence my comment. Oh but  you think you are so good you can read minds. What racial stuff am am I saying? Believe me I'm not in any kind of purgatory and you are hopefully one of a kind.

 

 

 

I can tell you "what racial stuff" you are saying, at least in part. That white card privilege garbage. 

If you can defend it, please go ahead. You downvoted my response to you but didn't say anything. 

You seem to have very strong opinions, so I am sure you can defend them. Tell me what you meant by the white card privilege post. 

[Son of A Tiger 561]

3 minutes ago, cbo said:

I can tell you "what racial stuff" you are saying, at least in part. That white card privilege garbage. 

If you can defend it, please go ahead. You downvoted my response to you but didn't say anything. 

You seem to have very strong opinions, so I am sure you can defend them. Tell me what you meant by the white card privilege post. 

That said nothing about race. There are white people who don't have lots of privileges. You jusr see everything through racist eyes.

[cbo 7,927]

3 minutes ago, Son of A Tiger said:

That said nothing about race. There are white people who don't have lots of privileges. You jusr see everything through racist eyes.

Just own it, man. This is pathetic. You are literally telling me a post about "white card" said nothing about race. 

Of course there are white people who were born into disadvantaged situations. We need to address the economic disparities in this country. It's a real problem and I'm happy to have that conversation. 

But it has still been much easier overall to be white in this country. Do you agree?