Can we agree this deeply rooted in white supremacy?

[PUB78 1,359]

1 hour ago, cole256 said:

That's Athens area right? See? People can hate me all they want but they can't say Cole is a dummy. 

So you don't think it's a problem the kids up there a little past Lawrenceburg have to go to a school named after a freaking grand wizard of the kkk. People celebrate this man like he's really some kind of honorable hero.

But I actually made a post about stuff like this, IMO that's why many of you are so against anything being racist, it would mean that some would have to admit some people they admire and love were horrible people and they won't do that

How about Franklin County? Are all folks from there , as well as all Northwest Alabama racists?

Name some of the people we “ Northerners” love and admire that are/were horrible people.

[AUDub 11,158]

50 minutes ago, PUB78 said:

How about Franklin County? Are all folks from there , as well as all Northwest Alabama racists?

Name some of the people we “ Northerners” love and admire that are/were horrible people.

I have a soft spot for William Tecumseh Sherman. 

[I_M4_AU 7,865]

10 minutes ago, AUDub said:

I have a soft spot for William Tecumseh Sherman. 

You must not have Native American blood lines.

[AUDub 11,158]

1 hour ago, I_M4_AU said:

You must not have Native American blood lines.

Nope. 

I just like that the flamethrower variant of the Sherman tank kept escaping from the test range and beelining for Atlanta. 

[Leftfield 2,617]

12 minutes ago, AUDub said:

Nope. 

I just like that the flamethrower variant of the Sherman tank kept escaping from the test range and beelining for Atlanta. 

 

[cole256 17,084]

14 hours ago, PUB78 said:

How about Franklin County? Are all folks from there , as well as all Northwest Alabama racists?

Name some of the people we “ Northerners” love and admire that are/were horrible people.

Did I call anybody racist? I'm going to let you really think of a way to get your foot out of your mouth and answer that question.

You see the way you became so emotional and just jumped to defend? That's the blanket that I'm talking about that actually helps cover people that are actually racist. So sleep good at night knowing who you really are defending and helping.

But thank you for making my point. I appreciate it

 

As far as naming people you know your family. You know your friends. You know what's really said in this homes. And yeah if you happen to have an ancestor that owned plantations and slaves and all of that.....no I'm not going to look at that person in love and admiration the way may. 

It may be easy for you to shoulder shrug off, but I'm not. 

That's crazy to me as well though, you have some people who say that. Say something like that's how it was back then.....but right now would go crazy if someone called me out of my name and I slapped the s*** out of them I'd be a thug. If black males can get labeled thugs for anything as simple as wearing their hair in a natural state what do you call these "founding fathers" and such? 

Edited June 9, 2023 by cole256

[icanthearyou 4,463]

6 minutes ago, cole256 said:

You see the way you became so emotional and just jumped to defend?

This is a fascinating phenomenon.  You say something about racism and,,, suddenly you are surrounded by people who say, "I'm not a racist". 

I don't understand why they take the term racist, so personally.

[cole256 17,084]

2 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

This is a fascinating phenomenon.  You say something about racism and,,, suddenly you are surrounded by people who say, "I'm not a racist". 

I don't understand why they take the term racist, so personally.

I really do believe it's because in their families and circles they know they have racist people that they love, and they are defending love ones. 

That and they get offended to think they had any type of advantage or anything like that. They look at it like you are calling them lazy or something or you aren't recognizing the work, sweat, tears that they have had thru life. 

Lately they don't experience it. It's like talking about a ghost, or dinosaurs or something. Is it even real, if it doesn't effect you or your world. And even if it is real can you really get a genuine appreciation or understanding of the pain and damage if you don't see it or feel it? 

I know cancer is real and I genuinely felt sorrow to and for people that dealt with it, but it was a different feeling losing a close loved one....and when I had a scare myself......let's just say that's an entire different feeling as well. I think it's something like that. 

On this board though it's absolutely more disdain to a situation where someone was called racist and they weren't as opposed to an actual racist person.......and if you think about that statement that is freaking crazy

[PUB78 1,359]

2 hours ago, cole256 said:

Did I call anybody racist? I'm going to let you really think of a way to get your foot out of your mouth and answer that question.

You see the way you became so emotional and just jumped to defend? That's the blanket that I'm talking about that actually helps cover people that are actually racist. So sleep good at night knowing who you really are defending and helping.

But thank you for making my point. I appreciate it

 

As far as naming people you know your family. You know your friends. You know what's really said in this homes. And yeah if you happen to have an ancestor that owned plantations and slaves and all of that.....no I'm not going to look at that person in love and admiration the way may. 

It may be easy for you to shoulder shrug off, but I'm not. 

That's crazy to me as well though, you have some people who say that. Say something like that's how it was back then.....but right now would go crazy if someone called me out of my name and I slapped the s*** out of them I'd be a thug. If black males can get labeled thugs for anything as simple as wearing their hair in a natural state what do you call these "founding fathers" and such? 

Cole,

I am not picking a fight with you. Merely asking you a couple of questions.  
For the record, one of my grandfathers was very racist in his thoughts and speech around other family members. His favorite TV shows were ones with blacks such as The Jefferson’s. 
The other was a farmer and I never heard a racist word come out of his mouth. He did say “colored” people, not black, and was kind and respectful to all. So was my other grandfather in public.

So, if this what you mean by people some of us whites respect and admire, then you are 50% right.

I thought you were going to name some famous people, leaders, politicians or coaches.

[alexava 6,973]

If you walk around in life looking for something to be offended by, you are certainly going to find it. I used to feel empathy for this. I ran out of empathy. This holiday can be erased ( I had forgotten it was a holiday) you can change the name of schools, you can tear down monuments it’s NEVER GOING TO BE ENOUGH. 

[TexasTiger 12,964]

27 minutes ago, alexava said:

If you walk around in life looking for something to be offended by, you are certainly going to find it. I used to feel empathy for this. I ran out of empathy. This holiday can be erased ( I had forgotten it was a holiday) you can change the name of schools, you can tear down monuments it’s NEVER GOING TO BE ENOUGH. 

So do you think Nathan Bedford Forrest should be memorialized? Jeff Davis? Stalin in Russia? Sadaam in Iraq? (Did you like seeing that one tumble?) All statues should remain? Forever?

[icanthearyou 4,463]

3 hours ago, alexava said:

If you walk around in life looking for something to be offended by, you are certainly going to find it. I used to feel empathy for this. I ran out of empathy. This holiday can be erased ( I had forgotten it was a holiday) you can change the name of schools, you can tear down monuments it’s NEVER GOING TO BE ENOUGH. 

As long as people celebrate (institutionally) the legacy of slavery, segregation, terror, discrimination,,, yeah, it is not enough.

[DKW 86 7,431]

8 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

So do you think Nathan Bedford Forrest should be memorialized? Jeff Davis? Stalin in Russia? Sadaam in Iraq? (Did you like seeing that one tumble?) All statues should remain? Forever?

NO. No Discussion.

 

[cole256 17,084]

9 hours ago, alexava said:

If you walk around in life looking for something to be offended by, you are certainly going to find it. I used to feel empathy for this. I ran out of empathy. This holiday can be erased ( I had forgotten it was a holiday) you can change the name of schools, you can tear down monuments it’s NEVER GOING TO BE ENOUGH. 

Lol. So since in your opinion it will never be enough, you think nothing should be done.......You don't see the danger in that? Just off of karma itself. You don't think you'd probably have a different feeling if some things were turned toward you or your family? The people you care about the most? 

 

And are you saying let's say a Jewish person had to go to a school named after Hitler, if he had a problem with that he was looking around trying to find something to be offended by? 

I don't know if you have kids or not but is that what you would tell them? If a woman in your family was assaulted by some animal and for some reason this guy was celebrated, you would tell her to stop looking for things to be offended by?

[cole256 17,084]

On 6/9/2023 at 1:36 PM, PUB78 said:

Cole,

I am not picking a fight with you. Merely asking you a couple of questions.  
For the record, one of my grandfathers was very racist in his thoughts and speech around other family members. His favorite TV shows were ones with blacks such as The Jefferson’s. 
The other was a farmer and I never heard a racist word come out of his mouth. He did say “colored” people, not black, and was kind and respectful to all. So was my other grandfather in public.

So, if this what you mean by people some of us whites respect and admire, then you are 50% right.

I thought you were going to name some famous people, leaders, politicians or coaches.

So what question are you asking exactly?

[Mims44 1,879]

On 6/5/2023 at 4:15 PM, TexasTiger said:

I think when terms get broadened and overused they tend to lose their punch. Frankly, I think that’s been the case with the term “white supremacy” which has the unfortunate effect of desensitizing many folks to the practice itself. But can we all agree that in 2023 for Alabama to still be observing Jefferson Davis Day is way past it’s expiration date and deeply rooted in white Supremacy? Why can’t the state let this go?

https://www.al.com/news/2022/02/how-a-confederate-daughter-rewrote-alabama-history-for-white-supremacy.html

On 6/6/2023 at 4:48 PM, CoffeeTiger said:

 

Drive down interstate 65 through Alabama and there will be 2 massive monuments you'll see. Confederate Battle Flags and Christian Crosses. 

 

Quoted you two cause these two different things always get conflated. And I believe there is a definite difference in the two.

A holiday for a man is a celebration of that man and likely his cumulative accomplishments in life

A piece of art is... whatever. Literally can be whatever you deem it to be.

 

 

If there was a holiday for Hitler I'd think it was wrong, holiday for Jeffy Davis is wrong.

But art? statues, paintings, etc... I'm good with whatever. If you extrapolate art into TV/Movies/Video games I think I speak for a majority of people in saying I'm ok with bad people, ideas, acts being portrayed.

[Mims44 1,879]

On 6/8/2023 at 10:21 PM, AUDub said:

I have a soft spot for William Tecumseh Sherman. 

One of the shittiest people from the civil war. I get the meme imgur type people raise him up.... but my god, what a shitbag.

On 6/9/2023 at 12:07 PM, cole256 said:

As far as naming people you know your family. You know your friends. You know what's really said in this homes. And yeah if you happen to have an ancestor that owned plantations and slaves and all of that.....no I'm not going to look at that person in love and admiration the way may. 

It may be easy for you to shoulder shrug off, but I'm not. 

That's crazy to me as well though, you have some people who say that. Say something like that's how it was back then.....but right now would go crazy if someone called me out of my name and I slapped the s*** out of them I'd be a thug. If black males can get labeled thugs for anything as simple as wearing their hair in a natural state what do you call these "founding fathers" and such? 

On 6/9/2023 at 12:29 PM, cole256 said:

I really do believe it's because in their families and circles they know they have racist people that they love, and they are defending love ones. 

It's a bit crazy right. Think about blended families, got a great uncle that was always amazing to everyone.... Then at family meetings you'd hear the rants against 'the white man', and then the sheepish turn towards the white people there with the 'not talking about y'all, y'all different' line.

At the same time, he treats everyone in the family with respect, every kid equally regardless of how their skin tone turned out. So it'd be weird to say F him right?

 

 

I get where you are coming from, I'd just expect people to differentiate between "uncle Joe" can be a good guy who has some major flaws and "uncle Joe" was good to me, therefore I gotta defend even the shittiest parts of who he was.

But, as we've covered over the years.... I do tend to expect more from people  

[TexasTiger 12,964]

17 minutes ago, Mims44 said:

Quoted you two cause these two different things always get conflated. And I believe there is a definite difference in the two.

A holiday for a man is a celebration of that man and likely his cumulative accomplishments in life

A piece of art is... whatever. Literally can be whatever you deem it to be.

 

 

If there was a holiday for Hitler I'd think it was wrong, holiday for Jeffy Davis is wrong.

But art? statues, paintings, etc... I'm good with whatever. If you extrapolate art into TV/Movies/Video games I think I speak for a majority of people in saying I'm ok with bad people, ideas, acts being portrayed.

Some statues are art and often belong in museums as such. Many public statues are erected to celebrate a person no different than a holiday that is created. The David and the Venus de Milo originated as art. A statue to Nathan Bedford Forrest was initiated to honor & celebrate.

[Mims44 1,879]

2 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

Some statues are art and often belong in museums as such. Many public statues are erected to celebrate a person no different than a holiday that is created.

I mean, it'd have to be pretty specific for me to worry about that. If there is a statue that says "this is to celebrate XXX for his accomplishments at XXX" then sure.

But I've seen art depicting Satan that others get angry about, and I don't have reasons to be against it. If I can be cool with Satan in art, then surely a swastika or stars-n-bars or crescent moon should be ok in art... to me.

[PUB78 1,359]

3 hours ago, cole256 said:

So what question are you asking exactly?

Did you have in mind other people, other than relatives or close friends, that we admired , that are bad people and racist?

Also, are you saying most all folks in North Alabama are racists?

[TexasTiger 12,964]

1 hour ago, Mims44 said:

I mean, it'd have to be pretty specific for me to worry about that. If there is a statue that says "this is to celebrate XXX for his accomplishments at XXX" then sure.

But I've seen art depicting Satan that others get angry about, and I don't have reasons to be against it. If I can be cool with Satan in art, then surely a swastika or stars-n-bars or crescent moon should be ok in art... to me.

It’s not generally difficult to determine the history and intent behind a public statue. But if you’re point is a statute is art or history, don’t destroy them just put them in a museum rather than the public square.

[AUDub 11,158]

1 hour ago, Mims44 said:

One of the shittiest people from the civil war. I get the meme imgur type people raise him up.... but my god, what a shitbag.

Hardly.

[cole256 17,084]

12 hours ago, PUB78 said:

Did you have in mind other people, other than relatives or close friends, that we admired , that are bad people and racist?

Also, are you saying most all folks in North Alabama are racists?

I mean if you dive deep into some of the called fore fathers of the country they don't seem to be the heroes everybody makes them out to be. I feel like I read about one of them may have very well been a serial killer.

And I really think you missed the overall point of what I was saying.....I was actually giving many of you passes so to speak. I'm saying many of you aren't racist but you all get so upset about the thought of a person speaking about racism that you actually cast a wall of protection for people that are actually racist.

I'm then saying maybe you all do that because you have people that you admire and care about that are racist and that's why you get so triggered about it. Because you get more triggered about someone being called racist than an actual act of racism.

And no I don't think everybody is racist. Once again that's not close to what I was saying. There are A BUNCH of racism in the Northwest Alabama region though.

But what I was speaking on was the monument and statue thing. This area will not let their Confederate and racist heroes go. And you can even look at how a freaking high school is named after the grand wizard of the kkk.....You can't argue that point. That's not me saying everybody is racist. I can't say anything on here without the first response from someone being the oh so you think everybody is racist comment.

I'm pretty much at the point that I wish you all would notice that I'm actually very smart and I don't just post without thinking and after all this time I haven't EVER called everybody racist, I probably won't ever. But I know that won't ever be the case......I just wish this could be discussed where people actually just would think. But I'm not able to have these discussions because if we are honest on this board I have certain prejudice and biases against me because I have the gall to even speak out about this stuff. I should just stop talking and pointing out the way of life everyone is so used to. Me talking actually makes me racist.

 

You can actually look at a basketball thread I posted. By pointing out a white guy is white one poster even wrote he hopes the guy doesn't see the thread saying he's white.....and a mod and other posters even liked it. That's where we are at on this board.

[homersapien 11,393]

17 hours ago, Mims44 said:

But art? statues, paintings, etc... I'm good with whatever. If you extrapolate art into TV/Movies/Video games I think I speak for a majority of people in saying I'm ok with bad people, ideas, acts being portrayed.

But, statues of historical figures - especially military heroes - placed in public spaces are invariably meant to honor that person for what they did and stood for.

That's quite different from putting up an artistic statue or sculpture.

[homersapien 11,393]

17 hours ago, Mims44 said:

One of the shittiest people from the civil war. I get the meme imgur type people raise him up.... but my god, what a shitbag.

 

I'm curious.  What are you reasons for saying that?

(No details needed.  Does it have anything to do with the freed slaves who were following him on his "march to the sea"?)

Edited June 11, 2023 by homersapien