Kinda stunning

[Didba 5,281]

4 minutes ago, Son of A Tiger said:

Do you know of any occasion where Israel military (or any country's military) has broken into innocent civilian homes before a conflict was even going on and killed the occupants and even decapitated babies? 

As I said in my original post:

One can condemn the history of apartheid oppression and war crimes on the part of Israeli government/military while also condemning Hamas terrorism.

[I_M4_AU 8,056]

1 hour ago, Didba said:

You may want to look into the various massacres/mass rapes that occurred at the hands of Israeli forces since 1948. Also, you could do the same for US troops in Vietnam and Iraq to an even worse degree. It happens in war unfortunately whether the populace condones it or not.  

here is some NSFW reading on the matter:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_war_crimes

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_war_crimes_against_Israel

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Fact_Finding_Mission_on_the_Gaza_Conflict

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abuse

You are going back 75 years….yes things like this happen in war and each time a light is shined on it soldiers are more cognizant of the past digressions.  Every war is like that when in an extended war.  What this has done is use these tactics to initiate the war.  A truly terroristic thing to do. 

There is a difference.

[auburnatl1 5,253]

1 minute ago, Didba said:

The suggestion to walk in their shoes just seemed to be excusing their militaries war crimes, for instance:

“experience what they have and you might not be able to resist committing a couple war crimes here and there.” 

I clearly misunderstood and see that’s it’s not the case. I am glad I misunderstood because otherwise yeeeesh. 

No worries. I can tell you that Israel has tried both hawk and dove policies to try to make this stop. Forever. Bad part is right now they’re in a hawk cycle. With an enraged populace.

Trying to share one place with two peoples who both believe they were solely promised it by God … is a tough one. And the Israelis have factions that make maga look like a kumbaya festival - the Palestinians obviously much much worse.

[Didba 5,281]

4 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

You are going back 75 years….yes things like this happen in war and each time a light is shined on it soldiers are more cognizant of the past digressions.  Every war is like that when in an extended war.  What this has done is use these tactics to initiate the war.  A truly terroristic thing to do. 

There is a difference.

What do you mean 75 years? There are war crimes cited that were carried out in the last twenty years including the torture and rape of prisoners by US soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan. 

I don’t think there is a difference murder and rape is murder and rape, whether it is committed by military or terrorists  

I’m not defending Hamas. Nor did I ever. I’m just condemning murder and rape whenever it is committed as war crimes. 

Edited October 11, 2023 by Didba

[I_M4_AU 8,056]

Just now, Didba said:

What do you mean 75 years? There are war crimes cited that were carried out in the last twenty years including the torture and rape of prisoners by US soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan. 

2023-1948 = 75

[Didba 5,281]

3 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

2023-1948 = 75

Dude, there has been multiple occurrences that have happened since 1948. So no I didn’t have to go back 75 years. That’s just the first documented occurrence of war crimes.

Just check out the links. 

Edited October 11, 2023 by Didba

[I_M4_AU 8,056]

Just now, Didba said:

Dude, there has been multiple occurrences that have happened since 1948. So no I didn’t have to go back 75 years. That’s just the first documented war crimes.

Just check out the links. It’s not that hard. 

I realize that, but you set the time table, not me.  I’m have not disagreed with you on this.  The point I’m making is each time it happens responsible government learn and adapt.

Hamas started this war by terrorizing the citizens of Israel (non combatants) using rape and murder. Those other wars were not started in that way.

[auburnatl1 5,253]

4 minutes ago, Didba said:

As I said in my original post:

One can condemn the history of apartheid oppression and war crimes on the part of Israeli government/military while also condemning Hamas terrorism.

Apartheid? Dear lord. They tried bringing in Palestinians and doing integration 25 years ago - and then malls, airports, weddings, whatever started blowing up all over the place.  Then they tried the 2 state solution. 

If somebody’s really got this figured out with a new idea - call the Israeli embassy. They’re wide open to suggestions.
 

 

[Didba 5,281]

1 minute ago, I_M4_AU said:

I realize that, but you set the time table, not me.  I’m have not disagreed with you on this.  The point I’m making is each time it happens responsible government learn and adapt.

Hamas started this war by terrorizing the citizens of Israel (non combatants) using rape and murder. Those other wars were not started in that way.

Except the Israelis were still using human shields and white phosphorous in 2009. Look it doesn’t matter how the war was started.

War crimes are war crimes my man. the decisions to use white phosphorous and human shields aren’t one off war crazed soldiers. 

[Didba 5,281]

2 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

Apartheid? Dear lord. They tried bringing in Palestinians and doing integration 25 years ago - and then malls, airports, weddings, whatever started blowing up all over the place.  Then they tried the 2 state solution. 

If somebody’s really got this figured out with a new idea - call the Israeli embassy. They’re wide open to suggestions.
 

 

It’s pretty well documented. I didn’t know any of this stuff until last night. Just a quick read on amnesty international, the human rights watch and the multiple UN investigations into the various conflicts are eye opening. 

There is a lot of bad on both sides and a whole lot of innocent civilians are being victims of war crimes.

Which is why my original statement condemned both. 

[WillMunny 1,384]

Go Israel.

[Didba 5,281]

2 minutes ago, WillMunny said:

Go Israel.

Hell yeah, cheer on those war crimes committed back and forth! More war and violence against civilians on both sides! 

Edited October 11, 2023 by Didba

[WillMunny 1,384]

1 minute ago, Didba said:

Hell yeah, cheer on those war crimes committed back and forth! More war and violence against civilians on both sides!

Aren't you supposed to be working 70 hours per week or something?

[I_M4_AU 8,056]

6 minutes ago, Didba said:

Except the Israelis were still using human shields and white phosphorous in 2009. Look it doesn’t matter how the war was started.

War crimes are war crimes my man. the decisions to use white phosphorous and human shields aren’t one off war crazed soldiers. 

White phosphorous is legal in sparsely populated areas as it is used for cover:

It is a weapon banned by the UN as it is used to make bombs more lethal. 

Its use in open areas is legal under international law, but air-dropping phosphorus over inhabited areas is prohibited, as it endangers civilians and can result in an indiscriminate attack due to the wide dispersion of the burning fragments.

https://www.marca.com/en/lifestyle/world-news/2022/03/24/623cd27ce2704ec0178b45cc.html

So context is needed.  Hamas has used human shields to hide their headquarters (under a hospital) and place their rocket near schools.  You have a loosing argument there.

There is no way you can defend what Hamas is doing at this time.  Why try?

[Didba 5,281]

Just now, WillMunny said:

Aren't you supposed to be working 70 hours per week or something?

Sure am! Thanks for keeping tabs, bud! 

[WillMunny 1,384]

Just now, Didba said:

Sure am! Thanks for keeping tabs, bud! 

Not keeping tabs.  Just reading the forums.

[Didba 5,281]

1 minute ago, I_M4_AU said:

White phosphorous is legal in sparsely populated areas as it is used for cover:

It is a weapon banned by the UN as it is used to make bombs more lethal. 

Its use in open areas is legal under international law, but air-dropping phosphorus over inhabited areas is prohibited, as it endangers civilians and can result in an indiscriminate attack due to the wide dispersion of the burning fragments.

https://www.marca.com/en/lifestyle/world-news/2022/03/24/623cd27ce2704ec0178b45cc.html

So context is needed.  Hamas has used human shields to hide their headquarters (under a hospital) and place their rocket near schools.  You have a loosing argument there.

There is no way you can defend what Hamas is doing at this time.  Why try?

I’m not defending Hamas, nor have I in this entire thread. I’m condemning both sides, which I’ve stated multiple times. 

[Didba 5,281]

5 minutes ago, WillMunny said:

Not keeping tabs.  Just reading the forums.

Well keep on, keeping on

Edited October 11, 2023 by Didba

[TexasTiger 13,136]

31 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

No worries. I can tell you that Israel has tried both hawk and dove policies to try to make this stop. Forever. Bad part is right now they’re in a hawk cycle. With an enraged populace.

Trying to share one place with two peoples who both believe they were solely promised it by God … is a tough one. And the Israelis have factions that make maga look like a kumbaya festival - the Palestinians obviously much much worse.

They’ve been in hawk cycle ever since Netanyahu. Building settlements in the West Bank is an aggressive act. Now, they’re enraged and I see even previously reasonable people seemingly favoring starving 2M Gazans and feeling justified if Palestinian children die.

[WillMunny 1,384]

5 minutes ago, Didba said:

Well keep on, keeping on

 

[Didba 5,281]

2 minutes ago, WillMunny said:

 

Hey, thats a great song! I’ve seen Steely Dan twice. Glad to see a fan of the Dan. Didn’t know it had so many versions, thanks!

Edited October 11, 2023 by Didba

[WillMunny 1,384]

1 minute ago, Didba said:

Hey, thats a great song! I’ve seen Steely Dan twice. Glad to see a fan of the Dan

They were a big hit when I was a student at AU.  A long time ago, but still very relevant music.

[Son of A Tiger 576]

4 hours ago, Didba said:

As I said in my original post:

One can condemn the history of apartheid oppression and war crimes on the part of Israeli government/military while also condemning Hamas terrorism.

But you didn't answer my question.

[AU9377 5,136]

7 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

Hamas, yes. All Palestinians are not Hamas. By denying food to the children of Gaza, Israel doesn’t appear to be making that distinction:

Defense Minister Yoav Gallant says he has ordered a “complete siege” of the Gaza Strip, as Israel fights the Hamas terror group.

“I have ordered a complete siege on the Gaza Strip. There will be no electricity, no food, no fuel, everything is closed,” Gallant says following an assessment at the IDF Southern Command in Beersheba.

“We are fighting human animals and we are acting accordingly,” he adds.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/defense-minister-announces-complete-siege-of-gaza-no-power-food-or-fuel/

That is true, but they aren't exactly rounding up the guilty amongst them and driving them to the border either.

[TexasTiger 13,136]

15 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

That is true, but they aren't exactly rounding up the guilty amongst them and driving them to the border either.

Surprising, too, considering how easy that would be. Same for those cartels in Mexico, damn it!