How long will Republicans cling to the pro-life movement as it becomes less popular?

[icanthearyou 4,463]

12 hours ago, GoAU said:

banning all sorts of appliances

Yes, you should be free to ingest all of the benzene you care to without government interference. 

[ScotsAU 1,331]

23 hours ago, GoAU said:

If you are stating when life doesn't start, I assume you feel you know when it does start?

The second half of your post is interesting in that because you feel someone likely won't have "any kind of life" it's better to kill them than to let them live?   Do you extrapolate that to disabilities too?

I'll admit, I am personally against abortion, HOWEVER I also don't feel that my personal beliefs in this area should necessarily align with law.   What I DO think needs to happen is a clearly defined point needs to be established, because mid and late term abortions should clearly be criminal.  If anyone ever sees / reads about partial birth abortions and aren't completely repulsed, they need to seek help immediately.  I think the vast majority of the country agrees there is a middle ground - the issue is drawing the line in the broad, grey area.   Not all Pro-Life people are absolute, just like not all Pro-Choice people support late term abortion.  Someone just has to have the guts to throw something out there.  Wouldn't somethin like 16 weeks be adequate?

I don’t think I’ve ever met anyone that supports late term abortions. Most pro choice folks are just asking to keep first trimester abortions legal.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

28 minutes ago, ScotsAU said:

I don’t think I’ve ever met anyone that supports late term abortions.

I agree other than,,, those pregnancies with extreme complications.

[GoAU 1,600]

1 hour ago, ScotsAU said:

I don’t think I’ve ever met anyone that supports late term abortions. Most pro choice folks are just asking to keep first trimester abortions legal.

According to the article above from Forbes, 93% of abortions happen in the first trimester (13 weeks) and 80% happen before 9 weeks.  There are estimates of 630k to 886k abortions a year - so let’s assume the average of 758k.  This would tell us 53k abortions a year are late term (2nd or 3rd trimester). 
 

You would think there could be a consensus that this could be a reasonable start of some sort of compromise, but 48% support it and 43% are opposed to restricting abortion to the first trimester.   So apparently there are a large number of people that aren’t opposed to later term abortion.   

[homersapien 11,379]

19 hours ago, GoAU said:

I find it absolutely hilarious that you call DJT authoritarian, when Biden has launched more unilateral decrees, banned more items, and assaulted constitutional rights than Trump did.  Out of curiosity, what would you say are a couple of examples of things Trump did that are "authoritarian"? 

It's ironic that you bold "like it or not" in the same sentence advocating changing the Constitution to meet your whims.  I suggest you are the one that should "like it or not".   There is a measure to change the Constitution - and it isn't based on your opinion, like it or not.

As to point 2 - sure there is - it's called our Constitution.  In reading our founding documents, it is clear that our nation was never intended to be run with as much federal muscle as we currently do, and bulldozing the rights of smaller states was never supposed to happen - that is why all states, regardless of population, get 2 Senators.  I would counter your argument that the Electoral college give too much power to states with large cities.  California, for example, has more electoral weight than the lowest 15 states combined.

1) Obviously, Trump denied losing the 2020 election and mounted an seditious effort to have it overturned.  That's about as typical of an authoritarian as it  gets.

And then there's he stated intentions of "weaponizing" the presidency to appoint a "loyal" AG in order to control the DOJ, as well as replace civil service employees there - and other federal organizations with partisan appointments.

Again, about as authoritarian as you can get.

2) If we tried to operate the country as the original founders intended who - for example, didn't even anticipate the need of a standing military - we would have disappeared as a country decades ago, along with our leadership role as the preeminent world power defending democracy.

And if we don't ultimately amend the constitution to better reflect today's reality, the same fate awaits.  And without U.S. leadership, the fate of democracy world wide is at risk.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

59 minutes ago, GoAU said:

So apparently there are a large number of people that aren’t opposed to later term abortion.   

Liar.  There are simply people who understand the necessity for late term abortion when a fetus is not viable and/or the mother's life is endangered.  Inhumane "christians" disagree.

[homersapien 11,379]

15 hours ago, autigeremt said:

We know the answer to the first paragraph. 

I should hope so.

[GoAU 1,600]

2 hours ago, icanthearyou said:

Liar.  There are simply people who understand the necessity for late term abortion when a fetus is not viable and/or the mother's life is endangered.  Inhumane "christians" disagree.

So how about we carve out exceptions for those two rare cases - how do you feel about that?  
 

Your petty jabs and insults are kind of funny.  You’re like a child….

[icanthearyou 4,463]

1 hour ago, GoAU said:

So how about we carve out exceptions for those two rare cases

Unfortunately, those situations aren't that rare.  Why do we not simply let women and their doctors handle it.

 

[GoAU 1,600]

2 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

Unfortunately, those situations aren't that rare.  Why do we not simply let women and their doctors handle it.

 

Because there is a human life involved that doesn’t get a voice in the decision.  People can argue all they want about the beginning of life, but by the second and definitely by the third trimester it is undeniably a human life. 

[icanthearyou 4,463]

3 minutes ago, GoAU said:

Because there is a human life involved that doesn’t get a voice in the decision.  People can argue all they want about the beginning of life, but by the second and definitely by the third trimester it is undeniably a human life. 

So, you trust the government to make crucial personal decisions?  Interesting. 

Go find a doctor in this country who will perform a late term abortion without necessity.  You won't.

[GoAU 1,600]

34 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

So, you trust the government to make crucial personal decisions?  Interesting. 

Go find a doctor in this country who will perform a late term abortion without necessity.  You won't.

No, it’s not a government decision, it was a personal decision, made months earlier .

 

And no (before you say it) I don’t have an issue with an early abortion for rape and incest. 

Edited November 11, 2023 by GoAU

[AU9377 4,935]

8 hours ago, GoAU said:

According to the article above from Forbes, 93% of abortions happen in the first trimester (13 weeks) and 80% happen before 9 weeks.  There are estimates of 630k to 886k abortions a year - so let’s assume the average of 758k.  This would tell us 53k abortions a year are late term (2nd or 3rd trimester). 
 

You would think there could be a consensus that this could be a reasonable start of some sort of compromise, but 48% support it and 43% are opposed to restricting abortion to the first trimester.   So apparently there are a large number of people that aren’t opposed to later term abortion.   

When someone says "later term abortions," many people immediately assume these procedures are performed on a fetus that could survive outside the womb.  That just isn't the case.  Most all truly late term abortions are due to health issues concerning the mother or the fetus.  A couple of weeks into the 2nd trimester is less than the 15 weeks that some have suggested, but are counted as later term abortions by most statistical reports.

[jj3jordan 2,053]

17 hours ago, icanthearyou said:

So, you trust the government to make crucial personal decisions?  Interesting. 

Go find a doctor in this country who will perform a late term abortion without necessity.  You won't.

Liar. They are all over the place.

[homersapien 11,379]

19 hours ago, GoAU said:

Because there is a human life involved that doesn’t get a voice in the decision.  People can argue all they want about the beginning of life, but by the second and by the third trimester it is undeniably a human life. 

You certainly don't think much of women if you seriously think casual or abortions for birth control in the third trimester are common.  That doesn't even pass the common sense test.

We've already seen the threat posed to women with life-threatening conditions occurring in the third trimester who live in states with such restrictions, yet you would still have the state make those personal, medical decisions. 

Since when is that "conservative"?

Edited November 12, 2023 by homersapien

[homersapien 11,379]

18 hours ago, GoAU said:

And no (before you say it) I don’t have an issue with an early abortion for rape and incest. 

What happen to that "life" that is involved?

You are not consistent.

[auburnatl1 4,935]

The hopefully obvious - It’s not a woman or dr’s decision if the fetus is a person. A US citizen with full rights of their own. Something happens somewhere between 1 week and 39. There is no clean solution to this (heart beat vs independent of mother) but 12 weeks feels like the least bad answer - before that is woman’s and drs decision  (ps the last trimester is problematic. Ie my oldest was over  7 weeks early and he’s 6’4” and a math major in college).

[homersapien 11,379]

10 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

The hopefully obvious - It’s not a woman or dr’s decision if the fetus is a person. A US citizen with full rights of their own. Something happens somewhere between 1 week and 39. There is no clean solution to this (heart beat vs independent of mother) but 12 weeks feels like the least bad answer - before that is woman’s and drs decision  (ps the last trimester is problematic. Ie my oldest was over  7 weeks early and he’s 6’4” and a math major in college).

There's a heart beat before there's a actual heart.  Babies with anencephaly have a beating heart. My father was brain dead and on a ventilator while his heart was still beating. 

Like you said, there is no "clean solution".  

[auburnatl1 4,935]

17 minutes ago, homersapien said:

There's a heart beat before there's a actual heart.  Babies with anencephaly have a beating heart. My father was brain dead and on a ventilator while his heart was still beating. 

Like you said, there is no "clean solution".  

Abortion is just the tip of the advancing technology, moral dilemma nightmares that are coming. Genetic improvements, AI making medical decisions - trust me, this ethical stuff will get much much harder in less than 15 yrs. 

Thank goodness we’ve got mental giants like aoc and mtg to figure it out.

Edited November 12, 2023 by auburnatl1

[homersapien 11,379]

20 hours ago, auburnatl1 said:

Abortion is just the tip of the advancing technology, moral dilemma nightmares that are coming. Genetic improvements, AI making medical decisions - trust me, this ethical stuff wall get much much harder in less than 15 yrs. 

Thank goodness we’ve got mental giants like aoc and mtg to figure it out.

You are so right about this.

As a species we have let our technological capability far outstrip our moral/emotional/wisdom capability.  And I have thought this for years - starting with understanding of the significance of fusion weapons.

I read a whimsical but interesting thesis a while back that postulated the reason we have failed to make contact with a fellow "advanced" species somewhere in the galaxy is that when a species develops artificial intelligence, extinction quickly follows. 

Edited November 13, 2023 by homersapien

[auburnatl1 4,935]

2 minutes ago, homersapien said:

You are so right about this.

As a species we have let our technological capability far outstrip our moral/emotional/wisdom capability.  And I have thought this for years - starting with the understanding the significance of fusion weapons.

I read a whimsical but interesting thesis a while back that postulated the reason we have failed to make contact with a fellow "advanced" species somewhere in the galaxy is that when a species develops artificial intelligence, extinction quickly follows. 

We are reaching a tech inflection point where we have to have smart people in politics. It’s more than left vs right.  Talent no longer goes into government - we’ve made it a populist clown show. 

As I’ve asked before - read the constitution and ask yourself who in congress today could craft a highly imaginative and complex document like that today? My fear is that we’re now only capable debating bud light - while industry (who has talent) is developing societal changing innovations that are beyond our officials ability to grasp. I have a small services firm that works with next gen AI - government has NO idea what’s coming or has the smarts to regulate it.

[GoAU 1,600]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

You certainly don't think much of women if you seriously think casual or abortions for birth control in the third trimester are common.  That doesn't even pass the common sense test.

We've already seen the threat posed to women with life-threatening conditions occurring in the third trimester who live in states with such restrictions, yet you would still have the state make those personal, medical decisions. 

Since when is that "conservative"?

You are incorrect, I think equally of all people, have been married to a wonderful woman for almost 30 years and have raised 4 wonderful daughters who have grown into fantastic young women. So I wouldn’t try to ascertain what I or anyone else thinks.  
 

If abortion in the 2nd and 3rd trimesters are so uncommon, and we carve out exceptions for life threatening conditions to the mother, what exactly ARE you fighting for?    To me it sounds as if all you have left to fight for are the causal abortions?  

[GoAU 1,600]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

What happen to that "life" that is involved?

You are not consistent.

I am consistent.  One involves consent and a willing decision, the other doesn’t.  The decision would be in the first trimester.  

41 minutes ago, homersapien said:

You are so right about this.

As a species we have let our technological capability far outstrip our moral/emotional/wisdom capability.  And I have thought this for years - starting with the understanding the significance of fusion weapons.

I read a whimsical but interesting thesis a while back that postulated the reason we have failed to make contact with a fellow "advanced" species somewhere in the galaxy is that when a species develops artificial intelligence, extinction quickly follows. 

“The Great Filter” as an answer to the Fermi Paradox - and probably one of the better thesis’.  

[icanthearyou 4,463]

3 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

Liar. They are all over the place.

Prove it if they are in fact "all over the place".  No doctor in this country will perform an abortion on a healthy, viable outside the womb fetus.

[jj3jordan 2,053]

6 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

Prove it if they are in fact "all over the place".  No doctor in this country will perform an abortion on a healthy, viable outside the womb fetus.

I personally know one, moron. So don’t tell me they don’t exist.