Anyone here a "Blue Dog Democrat"?

[TitanTiger 20,511]

These folks seem to be slowly gaining influence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Dog_Democrats

I like a lot of what I'm reading here and it's why I'm splitting my ticket this election.

[TexasTiger 13,028]

These folks seem to be slowly gaining influence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Dog_Democrats

I like a lot of what I'm reading here and it's why I'm splitting my ticket this election.

I don't really label myself as such, but would tend to support most of those candidates.

[TitanTiger 20,511]

These folks seem to be slowly gaining influence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Dog_Democrats

I like a lot of what I'm reading here and it's why I'm splitting my ticket this election.

I don't really label myself as such, but would tend to support most of those candidates.

Well, I'm out of the business of labeling myself politically. I guess if you had to, I'm now an "independent" as I refuse to support any party carte blanche anymore. But I would support many of the candidates in this list as well.

[channonc 466]

Titan, you seem to be a pretty level headed independent voter. Just curious as to what you like about Ford, and what both parties could do to appeal to more people like you.

[TitanTiger 20,511]

Titan, you seem to be a pretty level headed independent voter. Just curious as to what you like about Ford, and what both parties could do to appeal to more people like you.

Well, not everyone is where I am politically I realize. This is just my personal "journey" or whatever you want to call it.

I'm done with straight party voting. I hear ideas all the time from Democrats or Republicans I like that get squelched simply because of party line kowtowing and I'm sick of it. I'm also done with buying into the entire platform of a party just because of one or two hot buttons they harp on. I don't buy into the "government is the problem" notion, nor do I think government is the solution. I'm not for big government or small government, I'm for smart government. I just want the government to be more efficient. I think the free market is good in principle, but needs some constraints to keep the playing field from tilting too far toward those who have already "made it" or toward the large corporations.

I want candidates to be more independent. If you think your party is wrong on something, grow a set and say so. If you think the other party is wrong say so. And vice versa...when the other party is right, support their efforts. Don't kowtow to the letter behind your name. But beyond that, do something about it. Don't just use it as a photo op to make yourself look good. Support the right ideas and come up with better ones to oppose the wrong ones.

I want candidates to have ideas. Show me you've given specific thought to the issues and don't just talk in vague generalities or broad ideological strokes. Don't tell me you want to "solve the health care crisis" that middle class families face...tell me specific plans or ideas you have to make that happen.

I want candidates to respect life. I cannot vote for someone who doesn't value the unborn simply because they haven't traveled a few inches down a birth canal. If you're not for overturning Roe, then show me some willingness to be reasonable...like support parental notification laws, outlawing partial birth abortions, severely restricting abortions after "viability" (meaning, the date at which a child has been proven to be able to survive outside the womb, even if it requires medical help) and crafting real solutions to reduce the demand for abortions. I love the aims and plans of the Democrats For Life 95-10 Initiative. And frankly, I'm more than willing to give in on the death penalty issue if it means saving innocent lives.

Don't be scared of religion. You don't have to be a raving firebrand, but if you are a person of faith...don't disconnect it from how you would serve as a legislator. It's not a compartmentalized thing. But also, don't patronize me either. Don't just toss out biblical references to sound spiritual. I hate phonies.

These are the things that come off the top of my head. I could probably think of more given time. But Ford is doing all of these things. Plus, his opponent is practically doing none of them. Ford absolutely smoked Corker in the debate the other night. It was like watching Auburn take on Slippery Rock. Ford consistently had specific ideas or knowledge on the subject being asked about while Corker sort of said a lot of pretty sounding nothing.

[channonc 466]

Thanks Titan. I think your "must-haves" for a politician are definately reasonable, and something that all politicians should strive for.

Working in Washington, I see how things really play out in the legislative process. It is often not at all how it is portrayed in the media and in the talking points you hear from both sides. Things are often much more complicated then they first appear, and its refreshing to see that most middle of the road voting Americans realize most issues can not be exclusively black and white, most issues are drawn in shades of gray.

Thank you again for your insight.

[CCTAU 3,348]

They can be black and white. It's just that the politicos have created a great system of keeping themselves in office to the detriment of the country. We need normal people up there making logical decisions. Not guys brokering deals. I know its a pie-in-the-sky dream, but, hey, if it happened like Tom Clancy wrote it, would it really be all that bad.

P.S. Cahnnon. Hope you are out that day..........

[channonc 466]

They can be black and white. It's just that the politicos have created a great system of keeping themselves in office to the detriment of the country. We need normal people up there making logical decisions. Not guys brokering deals. I know its a pie-in-the-sky dream, but, hey, if it happened like Tom Clancy wrote it, would it really be all that bad.

P.S. Channon. Hope you are out that day..........

I would have expected this comment from you, CCT. I guess you have never heard the word COMPROMISE. Its something we HAVE to do everyday, in order to get anything done. There is no one in Congress that gets 100% of what they want.

[CCTAU 3,348]

They can be black and white. It's just that the politicos have created a great system of keeping themselves in office to the detriment of the country. We need normal people up there making logical decisions. Not guys brokering deals. I know its a pie-in-the-sky dream, but, hey, if it happened like Tom Clancy wrote it, would it really be all that bad.

P.S. Channon. Hope you are out that day..........

I would have expected this comment from you, CCT. I guess you have never heard the word COMPROMISE. Its something we HAVE to do everyday, in order to get anything done. There is no one in Congress that gets 100% of what they want.

You say compromise. I say whoring out. Everybody wants their little piece, and they don't care who they have to screw to get it.

[TitanTiger 20,511]

You say "whoring out" and I say "sometimes."

Not every compromise is created equal and if opposite extremes simply dig in their heels and only settle for what they want exactly with no give and take, nothing will ever get done.

[Tigermike 3,054]

Titan, you seem to be a pretty level headed independent voter. Just curious as to what you like about Ford, and what both parties could do to appeal to more people like you.

channonc, please provide us with a list of things that democrats stand for, what they believe and how they would propose to do what they want.

[TitanTiger 20,511]

Could everyone here stop being so damn antagonistic and passive-aggressive toward those of the opposite party? There are numerous threads on this board for people to snipe at each other. This one was an exception. It was simply posted to highlight a growing trend of conservative Southern Democrats in the party and to see if the locals' views here were similar, not to turn into some pissing contest.

[CCTAU 3,348]

Could everyone here stop being so damn antagonistic and passive-aggressive toward those of the opposite party? There are numerous threads on this board for people to snipe at each other. This one was an exception. It was simply posted to highlight a growing trend of conservative Southern Democrats in the party and to see if the locals' views here were similar, not to turn into some pissing contest.

Oh. My bad. When I read the initial post, I did not see that stipulation. Please feel free to delete my responses.

[Tigermike 3,054]

It was simply posted to highlight a growing trend of conservative Southern Democrats in the party and to see if the locals' views here were similar, not to turn into some pissing contest.

Who are those guys or women?

[TitanTiger 20,511]

Could everyone here stop being so damn antagonistic and passive-aggressive toward those of the opposite party? There are numerous threads on this board for people to snipe at each other. This one was an exception. It was simply posted to highlight a growing trend of conservative Southern Democrats in the party and to see if the locals' views here were similar, not to turn into some pissing contest.

Oh. My bad. When I read the initial post, I did not see that stipulation. Please feel free to delete my responses.

It wasn't an indictment of just you and I didn't spell that out in the original post. I just grow tired of every post in this forum devolving into that. I simply posted some info and asked if anyone here would consider themselves a Blue Dog Democrat and within 6 or 7 posts the typical tangents started.

[TitanTiger 20,511]

It was simply posted to highlight a growing trend of conservative Southern Democrats in the party and to see if the locals' views here were similar, not to turn into some pissing contest.

Who are those guys or women?

Well, there are the 37 Blue Dogs in the House of Representatives right now. They are listed here:

http://www.bluedogdems.com/members.html

Then there are the ones running this year, about 15 of them altogether. This story mentions some of them:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/30/us/polit...and&emc=rss

[Tigermike 3,054]

I checked On The Issues (Dems only) this was the results.

Looking at your list the first was Joe Bacca

Congressman Joe Baca

California, 43rd District

Then,

Congressman John Barrow

Georgia, 12th District

Left Leaning Moderate

It would appear the Blue Dogs are trying to sell themselves as something they are not.

But to get back to the question, where is the "a growing trend of conservative Southern Democrats in the party"? If it is there I would like to know but so far have seen no indication that conservatives are welcome in the DNC. If I am wrong about that I would admit it. In the mean time, I will be looking.

House and Senate Democrats who are considered conservative.

Arkansas - No conservative democrats.

Louisiana - Rodney Alexander (D) conservative

Mississippi - 0

Alabama - 0

Georgia - 0

Florida - 0

South Carolina - 0

North Carolina - 0

Virginia - 0

Kentucky - 0

Virginia - 0

West Virginia - 0

Missouri - 0

Oklahoma - 0

Texas - 0

Maryland - 0

http://www.issues2000.org/default.htm

[channonc 466]

Could everyone here stop being so damn antagonistic and passive-aggressive toward those of the opposite party? There are numerous threads on this board for people to snipe at each other.

I often only lurk in this forum for that reason. Its not worth responding to name-calling and cheap attacks from both sides.

[TitanTiger 20,511]

I checked On The Issues (Dems only) this was the results.

Looking at your list the first was Joe Bacca

Congressman Joe Baca

California, 43rd District

Then,

Congressman John Barrow

Georgia, 12th District

Left Leaning Moderate

It would appear the Blue Dogs are trying to sell themselves as something they are not.

But to get back to the question, where is the "a growing trend of conservative Southern Democrats in the party"? If it is there I would like to know but so far have seen no indication that conservatives are welcome in the DNC. If I am wrong about that I would admit it. In the mean time, I will be looking.

House and Senate Democrats who are considered conservative.

Arkansas - No conservative democrats.

Louisiana - Rodney Alexander (D) conservative

Mississippi - 0

Alabama - 0

Georgia - 0

Florida - 0

South Carolina - 0

North Carolina - 0

Virginia - 0

Kentucky - 0

Virginia - 0

West Virginia - 0

Missouri - 0

Oklahoma - 0

Texas - 0

Maryland - 0

http://www.issues2000.org/default.htm

Tigermike, first of all, give me a break. That website is notorious for being overly simplistic when plotting that grid. I searched several of our Tennessee representatives and it has a bias toward the middle. I mean, Marsha Blackburn and Zach Wamp are as conservative as they come just about and they've got Blackburn on the moderate/conservative line and Wamp barely inside the conservative area. I know better...I'm in Congresswoman Blackburn's district. And I'm voting for her. Former Congressman Van Hillary was also very conservative and they barely have him inside the conservative zone. He and Ed Bryant were going at it in the Republican primary as to who was more conservative. I'm just not buying their ratings.

Secondly, I said "growing", not "arrived" or "realized". There are currently 37 members of the Blue Dogs in the House. The story indicates there are about 15 more running this year. It only got it's start 12 years ago after the GOP take over of the House. I mean, do you even read the links? In a closely divided House, 37+ members in a coalition between the parties can wield quite a bit of influence on some key issues.

And while all of them might not be as conservative as you would like on all issues, that doesn't mean they are by default "liberal." Heath Shuler for instance is pro-life, supports 2nd Amendment rights and against gay marriage. His economic views are what would best be termed "populist." He's running for the House from North Carolina. Lincoln Davis (TN) is a member of this group. He's pro-life and has offered a bill that seeks to reduce abortions by 95% within the next 10 years.

Point being, it's a gradual process and it is growing. If they aren't right-wing enough for you, that's your right to think that way. But, these guys take a lot of heat from their own party for their stances and for siding with Republicans on various issues. In the grand scheme of things, looking objectively, you simply can't brush this off.

[Tigermike 3,054]

Point being, it's a gradual process and it is growing. If they aren't right-wing enough for you, that's your right to think that way. But, these guys take a lot of heat from their own party for their stances and for siding with Republicans on various issues. In the grand scheme of things, looking objectively, you simply can't brush this off.

Point being, I didn't judge them any way. I looked at information that was available at other places. Your original post said Southern conservative Democrats. I am still trying to find them, not those campaigning now. If they win in this election, we will see how they are treated by the DNC. That site may be overly simplistic when plotting the grid, but it does give you a point of reference. It gives you somewhere to start.

I am not trying to brush off anything, merely learn and understand, so don't take a page from Tex & Al with the "If they aren't right-wing enough for you,,," BS.

If "these guys take a lot of heat from their own party for their stances and for siding with Republicans on various issues", the question would have to be how much influence will they have in the DNC and how long before the leftist firebrands of the DNC run them out for being "too conservative". Lieberman & Miller would be to good examples wouldn't they?

The way I see it is that the Dems are trying to trot out a conservative candidate in the South in order to try and win a few seats. If those candidates are in fact conservative, fine. But they will be marginalized within their party, patted on the head and told to keep quiet and let the big boys take care of things. The DNC is and has been governed and driven by those of the far left for years.

[TitanTiger 20,511]

Point being, it's a gradual process and it is growing. If they aren't right-wing enough for you, that's your right to think that way. But, these guys take a lot of heat from their own party for their stances and for siding with Republicans on various issues. In the grand scheme of things, looking objectively, you simply can't brush this off.

Point being, I didn't judge them any way. I looked at information that was available at other places. Your original post said Southern conservative Democrats. I am still trying to find them, not those campaigning now. If they win in this election, we will see how they are treated by the DNC. That site may be overly simplistic when plotting the grid, but it does give you a point of reference. It gives you somewhere to start.

I am not trying to brush off anything, merely learn and understand, so don't take a page from Tex & Al with the "If they aren't right-wing enough for you,,," BS.

If "these guys take a lot of heat from their own party for their stances and for siding with Republicans on various issues", the question would have to be how much influence will they have in the DNC and how long before the leftist firebrands of the DNC run them out for being "too conservative". Lieberman & Miller would be to good examples wouldn't they?

The way I see it is that the Dems are trying to trot out a conservative candidate in the South in order to try and win a few seats. If those candidates are in fact conservative, fine. But they will be marginalized within their party, patted on the head and told to keep quiet and let the big boys take care of things. The DNC is and has been governed and driven by those of the far left for years.

I'm sorry if I came back at you a little strong...I took your responses as just pissing on what I see as some progress.

As far as Lieberman...it's easy to marginalize him, he's from a blue state and has to fend off challengers from the left. Many of the Southern Democrats who are more moderate to conservative don't have that issue to contend with. They are valuable because they are the Dems only chance in that state, period. Miller was another animal altogether. He was really a Republican. He was truly a DINO who just wouldn't pull the trigger and switch.

And this Blue Dog Coalition is banding together to prevent the very thing you're talking about from happening. With 37 members and growing, they are a huge chunk of votes for the Dems to lose if they aren't negotiated with properly. If even half of them were to side with the GOP on an issue, the Dems are sunk. But they usually work all together to forge a way between the two extremes on each side.

And don't confuse them with the Clinton era DLC. As the Wikipedia article says:

Blue Dog Democrats tend to differ ideologically from another coalition of moderate Democrats, the Democratic Leadership Council (DLC). The DLC describes itself as new Democrat and positions itself as centrist while taking moderate or liberal positions on social issues and conservative positions on economic issues and trade. Democrats who identify with the Blue Dogs, on the other hand, tend to be social conservatives, but have differing positions on economic issues ranging from fiscal conservatism to economic populism. For example, most Blue Dogs are strong supporters of gun rights and get high ratings from the National Rifle Association, many have pro-life voting records, and some get high ratings from immigration reduction groups, which cannot be said for most members of the DLC. On economic issues, Blue Dogs span the spectrum from fiscal conservatives to supporters of labor unions, protectionism, and other populist measures, while the DLC tends to favor free trade.

A small number of newer Blue Dogs, however, hold positions closer to those of the DLC, and some Blue Dog Coalition members are also DLC members. Blue Dogs share with the DLC a desire to keep the Democratic Party grounded in their view of the political center, and to ensure that the party does not drift too far to the left of their own positions and no longer appeal to what they believe to be the majority of U.S. voters.

I just see it as an encouraging sign. Maybe one day a third party that doesn't swing to one far end or the other will be a reality of the two existing ones don't shape up.

[Earthcat 4]

Never joined a party and never voted for a Republican. My pride is being among the first 18 year olds to vote and I voted for George McGovern. Remember the "fear" is in your head. Don't believe it. We are all one.