Shooter in Salt Lake City..

[CCTAU 3,350]

I didn't realize this.

GOLLY. WONDER HOW I FIGURED THAT ONE OUT?

Yesterday afternoon I put the following note at the top of the Nuze:

TEEN SHOOTING IN SALT LAKE CITY

We've all heard about the teenager who killed five people at a mall in Salt Lake City. On Fox News last night I heard the kid described as a Bosnian.

My guess is that in just a few days we'll find out that this kid was a Muslim.

Let's see just how wrong I am here.

Well, wouldn't you just know it? It turns out that I wasn't wrong at all!

Sulejmen Talovic was a Muslim immigrant from Bosnia. When he went into that shopping center yesterday he had a backpack that was loaded down with ammunition, a shotgun and a 38 caliber handgun. It seems clear to Salt Lake City law enforcement that he wanted to kill as many people as he could. Thankfully the police sent him to his eternal sand nap.

Now .. here's your assignment for the day. Watch the mainstream media in this country. See how many newspapers or how many radio or TV broadcasts identify Talovic as a Muslim. Relevant? You're damned right it's relevant. We are at war against Islamic fascism. Muslim fascism. The chosen tactic of our enemy in this war is terrorism. They chose to attack civilians and kill as many as they can so as to spread terror amongst the civilian population. This Muslim went into a public shopping center with a pretty good amount of firepower and just started randomly killing people. What is the difference between Talovic and someone who would walk into a restaurant and detonate a bomb? The goal is the same. Kill people at random. The tactic is the same .. terrorize. You don't think the other people in that shopping center yesterday weren't terrorized? The only difference between this particular Muslim and one who might blow himself up in an Israeli restaurant is location and weaponry.

I can't check every newspaper and watch every TV newscast ... so help me out here. I believe you'll be hard pressed to find any references to the fact that this shooter was a Muslim. After all .... we certainly don't want to offend any one, now do we?

You know ... I think we can find a way to blame this all on either George Bush or on global warming.

LINK

Trolley Square: FBI says no evidence of terrorism in mall massacre

By Nate Carlisle

The Salt Lake Tribune

Article Last Updated: 02/14/2007 01:53:04 PM MST

Posted: 1:28 PM- The FBI has no evidence that political terrorism played a role in Monday's killing spree at Trolley Square.

Patrick Kiernan, a special agent with the FBI in Salt Lake City, said Wednesday that the bureau is trying to help police determine why Talovic killed five people. As part of that effort, agents have looked into whether religion or terrorism were factors.

"We're working closely with the Salt Lake P.D. and we're obviously aware that that [terrorism] is a potential issue out there," Kiernan said. "But at this point there is nothing that is leading us down this road."

The killer, 18-year-old Sulejman Talovic is a Bosnian immigrant, whose family came to the United States in the late 1990s as refugees from the Bosnian War.

Sulejman is a common ethnic Muslim name, originating in the Ottoman Empire, which once dominated what is now Bosnia-Herzegovina.

Muslim

[AURaptor 1,126]

See, a problem starts when the msm goes out of its way needlessly to cover up the fact that this kid was muslim. Now we're left with the 'why'. I'm not ready to connect the dots and claim this guy wasn't anything other than a reclussive 19 yr old , in a foreign country where few ( especially in Utah ) shared his religious beliefs.

Did one have anything to do w/ the other ? Who can say ?

[tiger88 934]

I don't see the big deal about him being a muslim. Now if they tie him to radical islamists that's a different thing.

I'm sure plenty of these kids that have gone on these sprees have been church going Christians. Are they out to get us too?

[AURaptor 1,126]

I'm sure plenty of these kids that have gone on these sprees have been church going Christians. Are they out to get us too?

Care to name any ?

[CCTAU 3,350]

I'm sure plenty of these kids that have gone on these sprees have been church going Christians. Are they out to get us too?

Care to name any ?

Also add to the this the fact that we are not at war with Christians.......

I'm sure that islam and the teachings that all who are not muslix must die had nothing to do with his decision to kill good ole non-muslix Americans. Odds are against that I'm right though.

[AURaptor 1,126]

I'm gonna guess that tiger88 is still compiling a list of Christian mass murderers. He'll post his big pay off any moment now....really.

[tiger88 934]

I really don't have enough interest to look. However, one does come to mind right off the top of my head, although he was an adult and a serial killer as opposed to a spree killer. The BTK (Bind-torture-kill) killer was a heavy duty Christian. An very respected elder in the church and everything. They interviewed his Preacher when he was caught and everyone was so shocked because he fit the mold of an excellent Christian. One big difference was that he killed a bunch of people.

If you really want me to look I'm sure I can find others without trying hard.

Before you start in with some crap about "well, obviously he wasn't a true Christian", save it. This kid may not have been a "true muslim".

What you doofuses are trying to do on this thread is no different than someone trying to lump all Christians together with the freaks that kill abortion doctors or the Koresh's and Jones' that lead dozens to their needless deaths.

[tiger88 934]

I'm sure plenty of these kids that have gone on these sprees have been church going Christians. Are they out to get us too?

Care to name any ?

Also add to the this the fact that we are not at war with Christians.......

I'm sure that islam and the teachings that all who are not muslix must die had nothing to do with his decision to kill good ole non-muslix Americans. Odds are against that I'm right though.

We are at war with the muslims???????????? Geeze, I hope you don't really believe that. I'm also sure that you've studied the differences between Muslims and radical islamists. There are some pretty scary Christian sects as well out there. They study the same bible that sane Christians do. They just interpret it quite differently.

Christ man, if the majority agrees with you we may as well start WWIII and get this crap over with .

[tiger88 934]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,96286,00.html

Anti-Abortionist Says He Expects 'a Great Reward in Heaven'

Wednesday, September 03, 2003

STARKE, Fla. — Paul Hill (search), a former minister who gunned down an abortion doctor, said he feels no remorse and suggested the state will be making him a martyr when he becomes the first person executed in the United States for anti-abortion violence.

Barring an unlikely last-minute stay, the 49-year-old former Presbyterian (search) minister will be put to death by lethal injection Wednesday evening for the 1994 murders in Pensacola of Dr. John Britton and his escort, retired Air Force Lt. Col. James Herman Barrett.

Barrett's wife, June, was wounded in the shootings outside the Ladies Center in Pensacola (search). Hill has not appealed.

"The sooner I am executed ... the sooner I am going to heaven," Hill said in a jailhouse interview. "I expect a great reward in heaven. I am looking forward to glory. I don't feel remorse."

"More people should act as I have acted," Hill added.

Abortion-rights groups worry that Hill's execution will trigger reprisals by those who share his steadfast belief that violence to stop abortion is justified. Several Florida officials connected to the case received threatening letters last week, accompanied by rifle bullets.

Gov. Jeb Bush, who was named in one of those threatening letters, said Tuesday the threats would not keep him from carrying out the law.

"I'm not going to be bullied," Bush said.

Bush also said: "I'm not going to change the deeply held views that I have on (the death penalty) because others have deeply held views that disagree.

"I totally respect them. And they should respect what the rule of law is here in our state."

Death penalty opponents have also pointed to the prospect of violence as a reason to stop this execution in particular.

"We're very concerned that Paul Hill's call for violence may be picked up by any person to whom God speaks," said Abe Bonowitz, the head of Floridians for Alternatives to the Death Penalty. "That could be prevented. It should be."

Hill, a father of three, has supporters who have maintained a Web site in his honor, with snapshots and ballads, but most major anti-abortion groups have repudiated him.

Some of his backers liken him to John Brown, the abolitionist hanged for his crimes. One militant anti-abortion group, Missionaries to the Unborn, likens Hill to Dietrich Bonhoeffer, the Lutheran pastor from Germany who was executed after joining the plot to assassinate Hitler.

"Paul Hill is being martyred tomorrow, and that's wrong," said Bonowitz.

Copyright 2003 FOX News Network, LLC. All rights reserved.

All market data delayed 20 minutes.

4 yrs. old but I think this counts as well.

[tiger88 934]

With the capture of Eric Rudolph, the question of his motivation moves to center stage. Why attack the Olympics and abortion clinics and a gay bar? Was he following the concept of Leaderless Resistance, the Lone Wolf, or Guerrilla Warfare? This page helps explain some of these ideas.

Christian Identity

Leaderless Resistance

Right-Wing Terrorism

Rudolph and the Army of God

The Army of God and abortion violence

Phineas Priesthood

Christian Identity

It is likely the attack on the Olympics was motivated by opposition to internationalism, global cooperation, and race-mixing. This, along with opposition to abortion and gay rights, are core tenents of a theology called Christian Identity. Rudolph was exposed to Christian Identity in his youth, and appears to have kept in touch with others who share this worldview.

Christian Identity is a derivative and heretical form of Protestant fundamentalism that believes the US is the Biblical “Promised Land” and considers white Christians to be God’s “Chosen People.” Michael Barkun in Religion and the Racist Right has tracked the influence of apocalyptic millennialism on major racist and antisemitic ideologues within Christian Identity, including Wesley Swift, William Potter Gale, Richard Butler, Sheldon Emry, and Pete Peters. The most racialized version of Identity claims Jews are Satanic agents who manipulate subhuman people of color. Karen Armstrong refers to militant Christian Identity as fascist. Others see its most zealous wing as neonazi.

Christian Identity was a common belief in the Posse Comitatus in the 1980s and was the central belief for the Aryan Nations group based in Idaho. Aryan Nations—plural—wants to establish many racially-pure “Aryan” nations around the world. It is nationalist in desire and yet inter-nationalist in scope. Some of its followers have engaged in violence and terrorism.

Identity is a millennialist ideology that plans for an imminent apocalyptic race war, and history has proved that they act on their beliefs--making the threat of violence especially real. Many proponents of Christian Identity seek to overthrow the “Zionist Occupational Government” or “ZOG” in Washington, DC and establish an exclusively white, Christian nation. In this ideology Jews are pictured as agents of the Antichrist who must be eliminated to prepare the way for the return of Christ.

Christian Identity uses the producerist narrative. Jews are seen as the ultimate puppet-masters among the liberal secret elites believed to be building a global new world order. People of color are the lazy parasites gnawing away at society at below, while gay men and lesbians, feminists, and abortion providers are the sinful parasites, poisoning the moral order. The left is a sinister army of subversives.

One Extreme Right hate group that follows the tenets of Christian Identity is Aryan Nations. This is the announcement they posted on their website after Rudolph was captured:

ERIC ROBERT RUDOLPH

CAPTURED

This is the headline story of today, Saturday May 31, 2003. The FBI is gloating over the fact that they finally "got their man." Now every unsolved bombing over the past 6 years will be solved by blaming this HERO of our race. That's right SHEEPLE I said HERO! Let His enemies gloat for their days are numbered. There will always be another to fill the shoes of a fallen hero. The enemy has not won and will NEVER win for our VICTORY is preordained by our Father YHVH! So kinsman let us pray for Eric that he holds his head high in the face of adversity knowing that he will be cursed by our enemy but he will be blessed by his Father YHVH.

Eric, our prayers are with you...

[http://www.aryan-nations.org/ 6/2/2003]

Christian Identity is based on the theology of British Israelism--the principle source of materials promoting this theology for many decades was Destiny Publishers in Merrimac, Massachusetts. [ http://www.destinypublishers.com/ ]

For a collection of publications by Wesley A. Swift: http://www.kingidentity.com/cjc.html

Sermons by Wesley Swift: http://churchoftrueisrael.com/swift/

Online version of Emry's Billions for the Bankers: Debts for the People: http://www.321gold.com/mustread/billions.html

Phineas Priesthood

Some followers of Christian Identity see themselves as acting as agents of God through the Phineas Priesthood. The idea of exacting vengence on behalf of God is traced to a Biblical story. In recent times it is popularized by Christian Identity ideologue Richard Kelly Hoskins, who authored a book praising violence against enemies of the White race, which he saw as in the tradition of the Phineas Priesthood, for which the book was named. The book War Cycles, Peace Cycles by Hoskins was found among the belongings of Buford O’Neal Furrow, Jr., the accused gunman in racist shootings in California.

Aryan Nations and the Phineas Priesthood - ADL

Read More:

Christian Identity, Survivalism, & the Posse Comitatus

Chip Berlet

Apocalypse Now!

The Realized Eschatology of the "Christian Identity" Movement

Patrick Minges

American Academy of Religion Conference

1994

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Eric Rudolph and the Army of God

The Army of God does not exist as a single entity, but is primarily a common name used by a loose network of Christian Right anti-abortion militants. This represents a very tiny wing of the Christian Right. There is some overlap between the Army of God (and other militant Christian Right activists) and the militia movement, and some in the militia movement are anti-abortion activists. There are suspected links to the Extreme Right. In one case police have charged that Eric Rudolph, probably influenced by the Extreme Right Christian Identity, seems to have claimed credit for alleged bombings using the name "Army of God."

The Army of God and abortion violence

View the letters released by the FBI

AOG itself: http://www.armyofgod.com/

See also: http://www.armyofgod.com/ChristianNews.html

[tiger88 934]

I mean if all muslims are equated with radical islamists then all Christians are equated with these folks??????? Right????

I'm just trying to follow you logic trains here.

[tiger88 934]

I don't see the big deal about him being a muslim. Now if they tie him to radical islamists that's a different thing.

I'm sure plenty of these kids that have gone on these sprees have been church going Christians. Are they out to get us too?

Okay, after re-reading this statement it is over the top. I suppose what I should have said is "surely some of these kids who go on killing sprees are Christians", or something like that because that is more along the lines of what I was thinking.

[Tiger Al 0]

I'm just trying to follow you logic trains here.

That was your first mistake. CCT's mind is already made up, so, please don't confuse her with facts or reason.

[TexasTiger 13,029]

I'm just trying to follow you logic trains here.

That was your first mistake. CCT's mind is already made up, so, please don't confuse her with facts or reason.

Yeah, it just pisses her off.

[AURaptor 1,126]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,96286,00.html

Anti-Abortionist Says He Expects 'a Great Reward in Heaven'

Wednesday, September 03, 2003

STARKE, Fla. — Paul Hill (search), a former minister who gunned down an abortion doctor, said he feels no remorse and suggested the state will be making him a martyr when he becomes the first person executed in the United States for anti-abortion violence.

Barring an unlikely last-minute stay, the 49-year-old former Presbyterian (search) minister will be put to death by lethal injection Wednesday evening for the 1994 murders in Pensacola of Dr. John Britton and his escort, retired Air Force Lt. Col. James Herman Barrett.

Barrett's wife, June, was wounded in the shootings outside the Ladies Center in Pensacola (search). Hill has not appealed.

"The sooner I am executed ... the sooner I am going to heaven," Hill said in a jailhouse interview. "I expect a great reward in heaven. I am looking forward to glory. I don't feel remorse."

"More people should act as I have acted," Hill added.

Abortion-rights groups worry that Hill's execution will trigger reprisals by those who share his steadfast belief that violence to stop abortion is justified. Several Florida officials connected to the case received threatening letters last week, accompanied by rifle bullets.

Gov. Jeb Bush, who was named in one of those threatening letters, said Tuesday the threats would not keep him from carrying out the law.

"I'm not going to be bullied," Bush said.

Bush also said: "I'm not going to change the deeply held views that I have on (the death penalty) because others have deeply held views that disagree.

"I totally respect them. And they should respect what the rule of law is here in our state."

Death penalty opponents have also pointed to the prospect of violence as a reason to stop this execution in particular.

"We're very concerned that Paul Hill's call for violence may be picked up by any person to whom God speaks," said Abe Bonowitz, the head of Floridians for Alternatives to the Death Penalty. "That could be prevented. It should be."

Hill, a father of three, has supporters who have maintained a Web site in his honor, with snapshots and ballads, but most major anti-abortion groups have repudiated him.

Some of his backers liken him to John Brown, the abolitionist hanged for his crimes. One militant anti-abortion group, Missionaries to the Unborn, likens Hill to Dietrich Bonhoeffer, the Lutheran pastor from Germany who was executed after joining the plot to assassinate Hitler.

"Paul Hill is being martyred tomorrow, and that's wrong," said Bonowitz.

Copyright 2003 FOX News Network, LLC. All rights reserved.

All market data delayed 20 minutes.

4 yrs. old but I think this counts as well.

I'm sure plenty of these kids that have gone on these sprees have been church going Christians. Are they out to get us too?

You seem to have substituted kooks of another kind w/ your original claim, that kids invovled w/ shooting sprees with some handfull of anti-abortion zealots. As Monica Lewinsky would say, " Close, but no cigar. " Though you made the claim specific to kids and those sprees, you've failed to show ONE case where that held true. I doubt very much the Columbine murderers fit that bill either.

But if you want more 'anecdotal' examples of muslims attackers going under reported, here are a few :

The student in Chapel Hill who tried to drive down other students just last year. Although the AP's release tried to paint a DIFFERENT picture, with this bogus headline ... SUV Plows Through UNC Gathering Spot, Six Slightly Hurt . Sorry, but SUVs don't commit murders, DRIVERS do. Or in this case , attempted to. And what did Mohammed Reza Taheri-azar say about this incident ? He said he was ...... " thankful for the opportunity to spread the will of Allah."

And then there was the muslim who shot six and killed 1 in Seattle, WA.

Saturday, July 29, 2006

'I am a Muslim American, angry at Israel'

Six shot, one killed at Seattle Jewish Federation

On the eve of the Jewish Sabbath, a 30-year-old man claiming he was upset about "what was going on in Israel" opened fire at the Jewish Federation of Greater Seattle building, killing one person and wounding five women, one of them pregnant

And then there was the shooter at the L.A. Airort attacking Israels El Al Airline counter....

LOS ANGELES, California (CNN) -- A gunman opened fire Thursday at Los Angeles International Airport while standing in line at the ticket counter of Israel's El Al Airlines, officials said, killing two and wounding four others before an airline security officer shot him dead.

Authorities identified the gunman as 41-year-old Hesham Mohamed Hadayet, who came to the United States from Egypt in 1992 and had been living in Irvine, California, for the last two years.

[tiger88 934]

I guess you conveniently ignored my post about admitting that it was over the top statement and correcting it.

You're right it was an incorrect statement. Apparently most Christain killers are adults. Using the kind of logic used on this thread by some I suppose you could say that it takes a while of being a member of the Christian church for the craziness to take effect. I don't believe that. I believe there are many Enlightened Christians out there. I also believe that enlightenment can be found through many different religions, but it is extremely difficult to find anywhere.

The fact is that Muslims in general are not our enemy unless we make them that way. Are many of them angry at us? Yes, of course. We are bombing the sheet out of some of their relatives and friends so I can see why some of them are pissed at us. It's called empathy and if you can't have it for everyone then you will always be looking for a new enemy.

The danger/enemy at the moment is radical islam and if we play the cards correctly it can stay that way.

[AURaptor 1,126]

I guess you conveniently ignored my post about admitting that it was over the top statement and correcting it.

You're right it was an incorrect statement. Apparently most Christain killers are adults. Using the kind of logic used on this thread by some I suppose you could say that it takes a while of being a member of the Christian church for the craziness to take effect. I don't believe that. I believe there are many Enlightened Christians out there. I also believe that enlightenment can be found through many different religions, but it is extremely difficult to find anywhere.

The fact is that Muslims in general are not our enemy unless we make them that way. Are many of them angry at us? Yes, of course. We are bombing the sheet out of some of their relatives and friends so I can see why some of them are pissed at us. It's called empathy and if you can't have it for everyone then you will always be looking for a new enemy.

The danger/enemy at the moment is radical islam and if we play the cards correctly it can stay that way.

Funny, we helped them in Bosnia, and they showed their gratitude in slaughtering more Americans, here and abroad. Fact is, Muslims have made us enemies with out us doing anything what so ever to deserve it. They're bombing themselves more than we're bombing them, so I doubt very much they're all that mad at us, really. They just want to convert us, or die trying.

[tiger88 934]

Whatever works for you man. It's a dog eat dog world out there and if you go sticking your nose into it like we do (and I'm not saying we shouldn't stick our noses in things when necessary) you are always gonna have plenty of enemies.

Using your logic though we are at war with the entire middle east though presently because we have attacked parts of it. I mean if we attack some middle easterners then we obviously hate them all. That follows logically from thinking that since some sects of muslims hate us and attack us that they are all the same.

To debate you any further on this would be a waste of precious breath. Have a nice day.

[CCTAU 3,350]

If it prays to allah, check it for bombs and guns. Let'em into your house, I'll pass. My mind is made up on many issues. And I'm damn comfortable with that. I sleep really good at night. But don't think it's a deep enough sleep to sneak in. We live by the castle law here.

[AURaptor 1,126]

Using your logic though we are at war with the entire middle east though presently because we have attacked parts of it. I mean if we attack some middle easterners then we obviously hate them all. That follows logically from thinking that since some sects of muslims hate us and attack us that they are all the same.

To debate you any further on this would be a waste of precious breath. Have a nice day

Nice of you to cut and run. Were you man enough to stick around, I'd ask you to qualify how you arrived at this so called 'logic' you mysteriously arrive at. I'd like to see my quotes which support you wild ass claims about what I think, and how I arrived at that conclusion.

We're not at war w/ a region. Just at war w/ some religious zealots , who live all across the world.

[CCTAU 3,350]

Using your logic though we are at war with the entire middle east though presently because we have attacked parts of it. I mean if we attack some middle easterners then we obviously hate them all. That follows logically from thinking that since some sects of muslims hate us and attack us that they are all the same.

To debate you any further on this would be a waste of precious breath. Have a nice day

Nice of you to cut and run. Were you man enough to stick around, I'd ask you to qualify how you arrived at this so called 'logic' you mysteriously arrive at. I'd like to see my quotes which support you wild ass claims about what I think, and how I arrived at that conclusion.

We're not at war w/ a region. Just at war w/ some religious zealots , who live all across the world.

I think he was talking to me. So I'm happy to accept his criticism. Just so long as I still get to check every towel-head for bombs and guns.