NYC trying to ban metal bats at HS baseball games

[Captain Liger 0]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-j...p&type=lgns

How to hit more runs without failing a drug test

By JIM LITKE, AP Sports Columnist

March 14, 2007

Anybody over 30 can remember the first time they heard bat meet ball with a less-than-satisfying "ping" instead of a hearty "crack!" Apparently some of us haven't gotten over it still.

The latest fight over performance-enhancement in baseball isn't being waged at spring training, and it has nothing to do with HGH. It's taking place in New York, where a bill banning metal bats in high school games is expected to pass the city council by a comfortable margin Wednesday afternoon. If the measure gains traction, it could change baseball forever.

Or not.

New York is a big town, but it's still only one, and Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg might yet veto the measure. Beyond that, chances the manufacturers would sue even before the ban takes effect next fall are about as good as Mariano Rivera protecting a ninth-inning lead. And it's been an emotional, expensive debate already.

"And I'm a conservative Republican," said James Oddo, the Staten Island councilman who led the push for the bill. "I hate government intervention."

Oddo understands there are more pressing issues. He's already been clobbered by the tabloids for pursuing a "Nanny-State" agenda. That explained his pause.

"But when the protection of student-athletes is left to people who are in bed with the metal bat companies," Oddo resumed, "someone has to do something."

When pressed, the councilman acknowledges he has no reliable data on how many kids have been severely injured by drives off metal bats -- beyond the heartbreaking stories witnesses told during hearings -- and no inclination to trust the numbers the industry puts forward. That's because he doesn't much trust the bodies that crunched them -- the NCAA, National Federation of State High Schools and Little League Baseball, among others -- even though he has no hard evidence those organizations are "in bed" with the manufacturers, either.

But Oddo sees sponsorship ties at just about every level, reads the bat ads promising ever-increasing speed and pop, and watches a few games in his district. He's sure his eyes aren't lying, no matter how many times the manufacturers insist the metal bats have been throttled back.

"We make them to specifications the associations set," said Jim Darby, a spokesman for Easton Sports, a leading bat maker. "The NCAA, Little League, the high school federation -- the groups that that give us our marching orders -- they all keep injury statistics. He offers no data, no science, almost nothing in return. He just accuses them of being wrong. How do you base public policy on that?"

Commissioner Bud Selig sent the council a note offering some of his executives for advice, but Oddo had no luck following up. No surprise there.

The last thing Major League Baseball wants to do is stumble into another performance-enhancement fight. Especially because no one knows what would really happen to the pitchers, let alone the record book, if the best sluggers got their hands on the latest technology. In golf, where that's been the arrangement for years now, the results are decidedly mixed.

Asked whether MLB would ever allow such bats, spokesman Rich Levin referred to an answer given by Selig's predecessor, the late Bart Giamatti, in 1989. "He said as long as there are trees, there will be wooden bats in major league baseball. The policy hasn't changed since."

Technically, he's right, although MLB approved the use of some composite materials in bats in some Class-A leagues five years ago for the same reason colleges and high schools began allowing them in the mid-1970s: to save money. Back then, metal and wood bats performed equally. But as engineers at the bat companies started employing better and stronger alloys, the scale tilted drastically. Metal bats began producing faster line drives, especially dangerous when they were hit back at the pitcher. Batting averages, home runs and scores all soared.

People in the industry point to the 1998 College World Series as the final straw, when Southern California's 21-14 win over Arizona State so embarrassed the NCAA that it appointed a panel to take some of the sting out of the metal bats.

The centerpiece of the new standards the researchers drew up is a measurement called the "ball exit speed ratio (BESR)," which must be low enough so that the ball rebounds off a metal or composite bat at a maximum speed in the mid-90s. That's the same speed a ball hit on the sweet spot of a wood bat would produce, and since the standard was put in place, studies show injury rates are about the same as when only wood bats were used.

In 1992, Little League reported 146 injuries by batted balls. In 2004, after the new standards were in effect, the number was 26. In both instances, the number of players were about 2.6 million and they compiled 160 million at-bats.

"That sounds great to the uninitiated, like saying, 'Oh, we just peeled the onion back,"' Oddo said. "But it's not the reality. Any 15-year-old can tell you that.

"They went from a $50-million-a-year business to $300 million by pushing high-end, high-performance bats, and I had a kid in Staten Island eat a ball a while back. I just don't believe they have the best interests of my constituency at heart."

Jim Litke is a national sports columnist for The Associated Press. Write to him at jlitke@ap.org

[TigerHeat 9]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-j...p&type=lgns

How to hit more runs without failing a drug test

By JIM LITKE, AP Sports Columnist

March 14, 2007

Anybody over 30 can remember the first time they heard bat meet ball with a less-than-satisfying "ping" instead of a hearty "crack!" Apparently some of us haven't gotten over it still.

The latest fight over performance-enhancement in baseball isn't being waged at spring training, and it has nothing to do with HGH. It's taking place in New York, where a bill banning metal bats in high school games is expected to pass the city council by a comfortable margin Wednesday afternoon. If the measure gains traction, it could change baseball forever.

Or not.

New York is a big town, but it's still only one, and Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg might yet veto the measure. Beyond that, chances the manufacturers would sue even before the ban takes effect next fall are about as good as Mariano Rivera protecting a ninth-inning lead. And it's been an emotional, expensive debate already.

"And I'm a conservative Republican," said James Oddo, the Staten Island councilman who led the push for the bill. "I hate government intervention."

Oddo understands there are more pressing issues. He's already been clobbered by the tabloids for pursuing a "Nanny-State" agenda. That explained his pause.

"But when the protection of student-athletes is left to people who are in bed with the metal bat companies," Oddo resumed, "someone has to do something."

When pressed, the councilman acknowledges he has no reliable data on how many kids have been severely injured by drives off metal bats -- beyond the heartbreaking stories witnesses told during hearings -- and no inclination to trust the numbers the industry puts forward. That's because he doesn't much trust the bodies that crunched them -- the NCAA, National Federation of State High Schools and Little League Baseball, among others -- even though he has no hard evidence those organizations are "in bed" with the manufacturers, either.

But Oddo sees sponsorship ties at just about every level, reads the bat ads promising ever-increasing speed and pop, and watches a few games in his district. He's sure his eyes aren't lying, no matter how many times the manufacturers insist the metal bats have been throttled back.

"We make them to specifications the associations set," said Jim Darby, a spokesman for Easton Sports, a leading bat maker. "The NCAA, Little League, the high school federation -- the groups that that give us our marching orders -- they all keep injury statistics. He offers no data, no science, almost nothing in return. He just accuses them of being wrong. How do you base public policy on that?"

Commissioner Bud Selig sent the council a note offering some of his executives for advice, but Oddo had no luck following up. No surprise there.

The last thing Major League Baseball wants to do is stumble into another performance-enhancement fight. Especially because no one knows what would really happen to the pitchers, let alone the record book, if the best sluggers got their hands on the latest technology. In golf, where that's been the arrangement for years now, the results are decidedly mixed.

Asked whether MLB would ever allow such bats, spokesman Rich Levin referred to an answer given by Selig's predecessor, the late Bart Giamatti, in 1989. "He said as long as there are trees, there will be wooden bats in major league baseball. The policy hasn't changed since."

Technically, he's right, although MLB approved the use of some composite materials in bats in some Class-A leagues five years ago for the same reason colleges and high schools began allowing them in the mid-1970s: to save money. Back then, metal and wood bats performed equally. But as engineers at the bat companies started employing better and stronger alloys, the scale tilted drastically. Metal bats began producing faster line drives, especially dangerous when they were hit back at the pitcher. Batting averages, home runs and scores all soared.

People in the industry point to the 1998 College World Series as the final straw, when Southern California's 21-14 win over Arizona State so embarrassed the NCAA that it appointed a panel to take some of the sting out of the metal bats.

The centerpiece of the new standards the researchers drew up is a measurement called the "ball exit speed ratio (BESR)," which must be low enough so that the ball rebounds off a metal or composite bat at a maximum speed in the mid-90s. That's the same speed a ball hit on the sweet spot of a wood bat would produce, and since the standard was put in place, studies show injury rates are about the same as when only wood bats were used.

In 1992, Little League reported 146 injuries by batted balls. In 2004, after the new standards were in effect, the number was 26. In both instances, the number of players were about 2.6 million and they compiled 160 million at-bats.

"That sounds great to the uninitiated, like saying, 'Oh, we just peeled the onion back,"' Oddo said. "But it's not the reality. Any 15-year-old can tell you that.

"They went from a $50-million-a-year business to $300 million by pushing high-end, high-performance bats, and I had a kid in Staten Island eat a ball a while back. I just don't believe they have the best interests of my constituency at heart."

Jim Litke is a national sports columnist for The Associated Press. Write to him at jlitke@ap.org

Call me a traditionalist. I'd like to see aluminum bats go away. Baseball is about lumber, not mega alloys. I just had to spend a fortune on a league-legal bat for my kid. My dad used to lose his MIND when he had to buy me a new $8 Lousiville Slugger. Usually he'd settle for a $7 Montgomery Ward that caused me no end of grief in the dog eat dog world of little league. "Yo daddy is cheap!" Of course, I never ever intentionally turned the label the wrong way while batting....

[Captain Liger 0]

I'm the same way. I wouldn't mind seeing aluminum bats go the way of the do-do. I dunno, something about it just isn't right. It can't compare to the sound and feel of a wooden bat smacking a ball. In high school I'd practice with a wooden bat because they're heavier than aluminum. So come game time, after a while, swinging those aluminum bats was almost TOO easy.

But I don't think this is something government, at any level, should get involved with. It needs to start with the parents and kids, then the coaches and on up the ladder so that the change happens within. I never understood the premise for using aluminum outside of MLB anyway. I think it's dumb.

[aumd03 2]

I'm the same way. I wouldn't mind seeing aluminum bats go the way of the do-do. I dunno, something about it just isn't right. It can't compare to the sound and feel of a wooden bat smacking a ball. In high school I'd practice with a wooden bat because they're heavier than aluminum. So come game time, after a while, swinging those aluminum bats was almost TOO easy.

But I don't think this is something government, at any level, should get involved with. It needs to start with the parents and kids, then the coaches and on up the ladder so that the change happens within. I never understood the premise for using aluminum outside of MLB anyway. I think it's dumb.

It was my understanding that aluminum bats were supposed to be a long term cost savings as they were thought to never break or splinter. Today's bats have a short lifespan due to aluminum fatigue. They get their pop from the flex and trampoline effect of the metal wall of the bat. I'm not sure about cost, but I looked at bats for a wooden bat league and for quality wooden bat, the prices were about 2/3 of the aluminum bats.

[Ranger12 46]

Aluminum bats for youth leagues are still a better idea as far as costs go compared to wooden bats for the simple reason young kids do not know how to properly take care of a wooden bat. Also, aluminum bats are not as dangerous with leagues under 13 years of age. Once you get past about 13 years old, the danger increases.

High school age, they can be very dangerous, but where I would really like to see them banned is at the college level. That is where they are extremely dangerous. At the level, you have kids that are considered the best from the high school level and most can hit the ball hard with a wooden bat, so adding metal to the equation really makes the ball travel with more velocity. It also only makes sense for the college level to go back to wooden bats because that is what they will have to use at the next level anyway. Might as well get used to them while in college. Same reason I think the 3 point line in college needs to be moved back. Maybe not as far back as the NBA line, but at least something in between the high school and NBA distance.

[GalensGhost 0]

Last week I watched a kid who weighs 145 pounds and is 5-5 hit a ball over the left field wall (285) in a high school baseball game. You give this kid a wooden bat and he doesn't get one out of the infield.

I don't know what that means, but I've been trying to wrap my mind around it. Would it be better to force the kids to use wooden bats and relegate this kid to the bench probably? Or is it better that there are metal bats and he gets to trot around the bases like he's Andruw Jones?

[Ranger12 46]

Last week I watched a kid who weighs 145 pounds and is 5-5 hit a ball over the left field wall (285) in a high school baseball game. You give this kid a wooden bat and he doesn't get one out of the infield.

I don't know what that means, but I've been trying to wrap my mind around it. Would it be better to force the kids to use wooden bats and relegate this kid to the bench probably? Or is it better that there are metal bats and he gets to trot around the bases like he's Andruw Jones?

I know exactly what you are talking about. As a high school baseball umpire, I see some of the skinniest kids going to the bone yard. The thing about the aluminum bats is that they weight to length ratio has gotten so much larger, that the bat speed these kids are generating is amazing. Add to the fact that the metal compositions that are being used, like with the DeMarini and Copperhead sticks, the ball is freakin' launched off the bat because of the reflexivity of the aluminum.

But, in high school, it just depends on where you live and the level of talent in your area on how dangerous metal bats can be. They are still dangerous at that level regardless of you only have one guy good enough to hurt somebody or several guys. However, in college, all the players on the team are talented enough to do some serious damage to a pitcher or a third basemen, so you are more then likely going to see more injuries related to metal bats at the college level then you are the high school level. As a guy that was a pithcer at the college level (JUCO), a I can testify to the number of close calls I had in college compared to high school. Personally, I like the idea of banning them at the high school level, not only because of the danger, but because it actually gives college recruiters a more accurate look at a kids hitting.