Obama's Church: Cauldron of Division

[MDM4AU 336]

Newsmax

Obama's Church: Cauldron of Division

Jim Davis

Thursday, Aug. 9, 2007

Presidential candidate Barack Obama preaches on the campaign trail that America needs a new consensus based on faith and bipartisanship, yet he continues to attend a controversial Chicago church whose pastor routinely refers to "white arrogance" and "the United States of White America."

In fact, Obama was in attendance at the church when these statements were made on July 22.

Obama has spoken and written of his special relationship with that pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr.

The connection between the two goes back to Obama's days as a young community organizer in Chicago's South Side when he first met the charismatic Wright. Obama credited Wright with converting him, then a religious skeptic, to Christianity. [Editor's Note: Can Oprah Winfrey make Barack Obama president? Click Here.]

"It was ... at Trinity United Church of Christ on the South Side of Chicago that I met Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr., who took me on another journey and introduced me to a man named Jesus Christ. It was the best education I ever had," Obama described his spiritual pilgrimage to a group of church ministers this past June.

Since the 1980s, Obama has not only remained a regular attendee at Wright's services in his inner city mega church, Trinity United Church of Christ, along with its other 8,500 members, he's been a close disciple and personal friend of Wright.

Wright conducted Obama's marriage to his wife Michelle, baptized his two daughters, and blessed Obama's Chicago home. Obama's best-selling book, "The Audacity of Hope," takes its title from one of Wright's sermons.

Because of this close relationship, questions have been raised as to the influence the divisive pastor will have on the consensus-building potential president.

Obama and Wright appear, at first blush, an unlikely pair. Wright is Chicago's version of the Rev. Al Sharpton.

It was no surprise that Sharpton recently announced that with Wright's backing, he was setting up a chapter of his New York-based National Action Network in Chicagoland. The chapter will be headed by Wright's daughter, Jeri Wright.

Minister of Controversy

Obama was not the only national African-American figure to cozy up to Wright. TV host Oprah Winfrey once described herself as a congregant, but in recent years has disassociated herself from the controversial minister.

A visit to Wright's Trinity United is anything but Oprah-style friendly.

As I approached the entrance of the church before a recent Sunday service, a large young man in an expensive suit stepped out to block the doorway.

"What are you doing here?" he asked.

"I came to hear Dr. Wright," I replied.

After an uncomfortable pause, the gentleman stepped aside.

On this particular July Sabbath morning, only a handful of white men — aside from a few members of Obama's Secret Service detail — were present among a congregation of approximately 2,500 people.

The floral arrangements were extravagant. Wright, his associate pastors, choir members, and many of the gentlemen in the congregation were attired in traditional African dashiki robes. African drums accompanied the organist.

Trinity United bears the motto "Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian."

Wright says its doctrine reflects black liberation theology, which views the Bible in part as a record of the struggles of "people of color" against oppression.

A skilled and fiery orator, Wright's interpretation of the Scriptures has been described as "Afrocentric."

When referring to the Romans, for example, he refers to "European oppression" — not addressing the fact that the Egyptians, who were also a slave society, were people of Africa.

The Trinity United Web site tells of a "commitment to the black community, commitment to the black family, adherence to the black work ethic, pledge to make all the fruits of developing acquired skills available to the black community."

"Some white people hear it as racism in reverse," Dwight Hopkins, a professor at the University of Chicago Divinity School, a member of the Trinity United Church of Christ, tells The New York Times. Blacks tend to hear a different message, Hopkins says: "Yes, we are somebody; we're also made in God's image."

Controversy Abounds

Several prior remarks by Obama's pastor have caught the media's attention:

# Wright on 9/11: "White America got their wake-up call after 9/11. White America and the Western world came to realize people of color had not gone away, faded in the woodwork, or just disappeared as the Great White West kept on its merry way of ignoring black concerns." On the Sunday after the attacks, Dr. Wright blamed America.

# Wright on the disappearance of Natalee Holloway: "Black women are being raped daily in Africa. One white girl from Alabama gets drunk at a graduation trip to Aruba, goes off and gives it up while in a foreign country and that stays in the news for months."

# Wright on Israel: "The Israelis have illegally occupied Palestinian territories for over 40 years now. Divestment has now hit the table again as a strategy to wake the business community and wake up Americans concerning the injustice and the racism under which the Palestinians have lived because of Zionism."

# Wright on America: He has used the term "middleclassness" in a derogatory manner; frequently mentions "white arrogance" and the "oppression" of African-Americans today; and has referred to "this racist United States of America."

Bush's Bulls--t

Wright's strong sentiments were echoed in the Sunday morning service attended by NewsMax.

Wright laced into America's establishment, blaming the "white arrogance" of America's Caucasian majority for the woes of the world, especially the oppression suffered by blacks. To underscore the point he refers to the country as the "United States of White America." Many in the congregation, including Obama, nodded in apparent agreement as these statements were made.

The sermon also addressed the Iraq war, a frequent area of Wright's fulminations.

"Young African-American men," Wright thundered, were "dying for nothing." The "illegal war," he shouted, was "based on Bush's lies" and is being "fought for oil money."

In a sermon filled with profanity, Wright also blamed the war on "Bush administration bulls--t."

Those are the types of statements that have led to MSNBC's Tucker Carlson describing Wright as "a full-blown hater."

Wright first came to national attention in 1984, when he visited Castro's Cuba and Col. Muammar Gaddafi's Libya.

Wright's Libyan visit came three years after a pair of Libyan fighter jets fired on American aircraft over international waters in the Mediterranean Sea, and four years before the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland — which resulted in the deaths of 259 passengers and crew. The U.S. implicated Gaddafi and his intelligence services in the bombing.

In recent years, Wright has focused his diatribe on America's war on terror and the U.S. occupation of Iraq.

For a February 2003 service, Wright placed a "War on Iraq IQ Test" on the Pastor's Page of the church Web site. The test consisted of a series of questions and answers that clearly portrayed America as the aggressor, and the war as unjustified and illegal. Marginally relevant issues regarding Israel received attention.

The test also portrayed the Iraqi people as victims of trade sanctions, but Saddam Hussein's propensity for using "oil for food" proceeds to build palaces rather than buy medicine was never mentioned.

At the end of the test, the pastor wrote, "Members of Trinity are asked to think about these things and be prayerful as we sift through the ‘hype' being poured on by the George Bush-controlled media." Obama's campaign staff did not respond to a NewsMax request for the senator's response to Wright's statements.

In April, however, Obama spoke to The New York Times about Wright, and appeared to be trying to distance himself from his spiritual mentor. He said, "We don't agree on everything. I've never had a thorough conversation with him about all aspects of politics."

More specifically, Obama told the Times, "The violence of 9/11 was inexcusable and without justification," adding "It sounds like [Wright] was trying to be provocative."

Obama attributed Wright's controversial views to Wright being "a child of the '60s" who Obama said "expresses himself in that language of concern with institutional racism, and the struggles the African-American community has gone through."

"It is hard to imagine, though, how Mr. Obama can truly distance himself from Mr. Wright," writes Jodi Kantor of The New York Times. On the day Sen. Obama announced his presidential quest in February of this year, Wright was set to give the invocation at the Springfield, Ill. rally. At the last moment, Obama's campaign yanked the invite to Wright.

Wright's camp was apparently upset by the slight, and Obama's campaign quickly issued a statement "Senator Obama is proud of his pastor and his church."

Since that spat, there is little evidence, indeed, that Sen. Obama has sought to distance himself from the angry Church leader. In June, when Obama appeared before a conference of ministers from his religious denomination, Wright appeared in a videotaped introduction.

One of Obama's campaign themes has been his claim that conservative evangelicals have "hijacked" Christianity, ignoring issues like poverty, AIDS, and racism.

This past June, in an effort to build a new consensus between his new politics and faith, Obama's campaign launched a new Web page, www.faith.barackobama.com.

On the day the page appeared on his campaign site, it offered testimonials from Wright and two other ministers supporting Obama. The inclusion of Wright drew a sharp rebuke from the Catholic League. Noting that Obama had rescinded Wright's invitation to speak at his announcement ceremony, Catholic League President Bill Donohue declared that Obama "knew that his spiritual adviser was so divisive that he would cloud the ceremonies."

He noted that Wright "has a record of giving racially inflammatory sermons and has even said that Zionism has an element of ‘white racism.' He also blamed the attacks of 9/11 on American foreign policy."

Donohue acknowledged that Obama may have different views than Wright and the other ministers on his Web site, but "he is responsible for giving them the opportunity to prominently display their testimonials on his religious outreach Web site."

Political pundits have suggested that Obama's problems with Wright are not ones based on faith, but pure politics. The upstart presidential candidate needs to pull most of the black vote to have any chance of snagging the Democratic nomination. Obama's ties to Wright and the activist African American church helps in that effort.

But the same experts same those same ties may come to haunt him if he were to win the nomination and face a Republican in the general election.

The worry is not lost on Wright.

"If Barack gets past the primary, he might have to publicly distance himself from me," Wright told The New York Times with a shrug. "I said it to Barack personally, and he said 'yeah, that might have to happen.'"

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2...omo_code=3855-1

[TexasTiger 13,028]

So what denomination are you?

Newsmax

Obama's Church: Cauldron of Division

Jim Davis

Thursday, Aug. 9, 2007

Presidential candidate Barack Obama preaches on the campaign trail that America needs a new consensus based on faith and bipartisanship, yet he continues to attend a controversial Chicago church whose pastor routinely refers to "white arrogance" and "the United States of White America."

In fact, Obama was in attendance at the church when these statements were made on July 22.

Obama has spoken and written of his special relationship with that pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr.

The connection between the two goes back to Obama's days as a young community organizer in Chicago's South Side when he first met the charismatic Wright. Obama credited Wright with converting him, then a religious skeptic, to Christianity. [Editor's Note: Can Oprah Winfrey make Barack Obama president? Click Here.]

"It was ... at Trinity United Church of Christ on the South Side of Chicago that I met Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr., who took me on another journey and introduced me to a man named Jesus Christ. It was the best education I ever had," Obama described his spiritual pilgrimage to a group of church ministers this past June.

Since the 1980s, Obama has not only remained a regular attendee at Wright's services in his inner city mega church, Trinity United Church of Christ, along with its other 8,500 members, he's been a close disciple and personal friend of Wright.

Wright conducted Obama's marriage to his wife Michelle, baptized his two daughters, and blessed Obama's Chicago home. Obama's best-selling book, "The Audacity of Hope," takes its title from one of Wright's sermons.

Because of this close relationship, questions have been raised as to the influence the divisive pastor will have on the consensus-building potential president.

Obama and Wright appear, at first blush, an unlikely pair. Wright is Chicago's version of the Rev. Al Sharpton.

It was no surprise that Sharpton recently announced that with Wright's backing, he was setting up a chapter of his New York-based National Action Network in Chicagoland. The chapter will be headed by Wright's daughter, Jeri Wright.

Minister of Controversy

Obama was not the only national African-American figure to cozy up to Wright. TV host Oprah Winfrey once described herself as a congregant, but in recent years has disassociated herself from the controversial minister.

A visit to Wright's Trinity United is anything but Oprah-style friendly.

As I approached the entrance of the church before a recent Sunday service, a large young man in an expensive suit stepped out to block the doorway.

"What are you doing here?" he asked.

"I came to hear Dr. Wright," I replied.

After an uncomfortable pause, the gentleman stepped aside.

On this particular July Sabbath morning, only a handful of white men — aside from a few members of Obama's Secret Service detail — were present among a congregation of approximately 2,500 people.

The floral arrangements were extravagant. Wright, his associate pastors, choir members, and many of the gentlemen in the congregation were attired in traditional African dashiki robes. African drums accompanied the organist.

Trinity United bears the motto "Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian."

Wright says its doctrine reflects black liberation theology, which views the Bible in part as a record of the struggles of "people of color" against oppression.

A skilled and fiery orator, Wright's interpretation of the Scriptures has been described as "Afrocentric."

When referring to the Romans, for example, he refers to "European oppression" — not addressing the fact that the Egyptians, who were also a slave society, were people of Africa.

The Trinity United Web site tells of a "commitment to the black community, commitment to the black family, adherence to the black work ethic, pledge to make all the fruits of developing acquired skills available to the black community."

"Some white people hear it as racism in reverse," Dwight Hopkins, a professor at the University of Chicago Divinity School, a member of the Trinity United Church of Christ, tells The New York Times. Blacks tend to hear a different message, Hopkins says: "Yes, we are somebody; we're also made in God's image."

Controversy Abounds

Several prior remarks by Obama's pastor have caught the media's attention:

# Wright on 9/11: "White America got their wake-up call after 9/11. White America and the Western world came to realize people of color had not gone away, faded in the woodwork, or just disappeared as the Great White West kept on its merry way of ignoring black concerns." On the Sunday after the attacks, Dr. Wright blamed America.

# Wright on the disappearance of Natalee Holloway: "Black women are being raped daily in Africa. One white girl from Alabama gets drunk at a graduation trip to Aruba, goes off and gives it up while in a foreign country and that stays in the news for months."

# Wright on Israel: "The Israelis have illegally occupied Palestinian territories for over 40 years now. Divestment has now hit the table again as a strategy to wake the business community and wake up Americans concerning the injustice and the racism under which the Palestinians have lived because of Zionism."

# Wright on America: He has used the term "middleclassness" in a derogatory manner; frequently mentions "white arrogance" and the "oppression" of African-Americans today; and has referred to "this racist United States of America."

Bush's Bulls--t

Wright's strong sentiments were echoed in the Sunday morning service attended by NewsMax.

Wright laced into America's establishment, blaming the "white arrogance" of America's Caucasian majority for the woes of the world, especially the oppression suffered by blacks. To underscore the point he refers to the country as the "United States of White America." Many in the congregation, including Obama, nodded in apparent agreement as these statements were made.

The sermon also addressed the Iraq war, a frequent area of Wright's fulminations.

"Young African-American men," Wright thundered, were "dying for nothing." The "illegal war," he shouted, was "based on Bush's lies" and is being "fought for oil money."

In a sermon filled with profanity, Wright also blamed the war on "Bush administration bulls--t."

Those are the types of statements that have led to MSNBC's Tucker Carlson describing Wright as "a full-blown hater."

Wright first came to national attention in 1984, when he visited Castro's Cuba and Col. Muammar Gaddafi's Libya.

Wright's Libyan visit came three years after a pair of Libyan fighter jets fired on American aircraft over international waters in the Mediterranean Sea, and four years before the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland — which resulted in the deaths of 259 passengers and crew. The U.S. implicated Gaddafi and his intelligence services in the bombing.

In recent years, Wright has focused his diatribe on America's war on terror and the U.S. occupation of Iraq.

For a February 2003 service, Wright placed a "War on Iraq IQ Test" on the Pastor's Page of the church Web site. The test consisted of a series of questions and answers that clearly portrayed America as the aggressor, and the war as unjustified and illegal. Marginally relevant issues regarding Israel received attention.

The test also portrayed the Iraqi people as victims of trade sanctions, but Saddam Hussein's propensity for using "oil for food" proceeds to build palaces rather than buy medicine was never mentioned.

At the end of the test, the pastor wrote, "Members of Trinity are asked to think about these things and be prayerful as we sift through the ‘hype' being poured on by the George Bush-controlled media." Obama's campaign staff did not respond to a NewsMax request for the senator's response to Wright's statements.

In April, however, Obama spoke to The New York Times about Wright, and appeared to be trying to distance himself from his spiritual mentor. He said, "We don't agree on everything. I've never had a thorough conversation with him about all aspects of politics."

More specifically, Obama told the Times, "The violence of 9/11 was inexcusable and without justification," adding "It sounds like [Wright] was trying to be provocative."

Obama attributed Wright's controversial views to Wright being "a child of the '60s" who Obama said "expresses himself in that language of concern with institutional racism, and the struggles the African-American community has gone through."

"It is hard to imagine, though, how Mr. Obama can truly distance himself from Mr. Wright," writes Jodi Kantor of The New York Times. On the day Sen. Obama announced his presidential quest in February of this year, Wright was set to give the invocation at the Springfield, Ill. rally. At the last moment, Obama's campaign yanked the invite to Wright.

Wright's camp was apparently upset by the slight, and Obama's campaign quickly issued a statement "Senator Obama is proud of his pastor and his church."

Since that spat, there is little evidence, indeed, that Sen. Obama has sought to distance himself from the angry Church leader. In June, when Obama appeared before a conference of ministers from his religious denomination, Wright appeared in a videotaped introduction.

One of Obama's campaign themes has been his claim that conservative evangelicals have "hijacked" Christianity, ignoring issues like poverty, AIDS, and racism.

This past June, in an effort to build a new consensus between his new politics and faith, Obama's campaign launched a new Web page, www.faith.barackobama.com.

On the day the page appeared on his campaign site, it offered testimonials from Wright and two other ministers supporting Obama. The inclusion of Wright drew a sharp rebuke from the Catholic League. Noting that Obama had rescinded Wright's invitation to speak at his announcement ceremony, Catholic League President Bill Donohue declared that Obama "knew that his spiritual adviser was so divisive that he would cloud the ceremonies."

He noted that Wright "has a record of giving racially inflammatory sermons and has even said that Zionism has an element of ‘white racism.' He also blamed the attacks of 9/11 on American foreign policy."

Donohue acknowledged that Obama may have different views than Wright and the other ministers on his Web site, but "he is responsible for giving them the opportunity to prominently display their testimonials on his religious outreach Web site."

Political pundits have suggested that Obama's problems with Wright are not ones based on faith, but pure politics. The upstart presidential candidate needs to pull most of the black vote to have any chance of snagging the Democratic nomination. Obama's ties to Wright and the activist African American church helps in that effort.

But the same experts same those same ties may come to haunt him if he were to win the nomination and face a Republican in the general election.

The worry is not lost on Wright.

"If Barack gets past the primary, he might have to publicly distance himself from me," Wright told The New York Times with a shrug. "I said it to Barack personally, and he said 'yeah, that might have to happen.'"

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2...omo_code=3855-1

[MDM4AU 336]

So what denomination are you?

Non-denominational. How 'bout you?

[TexasTiger 13,028]

So what denomination are you?

Non-denominational. How 'bout you?

Same.

[TitanTiger 20,511]

Relevance?

[TexasTiger 13,028]

Relevance?

Is that question for me or in regard to the article?

[TitanTiger 20,511]

For you.

[TexasTiger 13,028]

For you.

He posted an article about a candidate's church without any comment. A poster's own experience/perspective/framework may tend to provide some sense of where they are coming from.

[TitanTiger 20,511]

I'm still not seeing what it matters. Let's pretend he's agnostic.

[TexasTiger 13,028]

I'm still not seeing what it matters. Let's pretend he's agnostic.

Okay, we'll pretend that.

[TitanTiger 20,511]

Ok, would you find anything in this article troubling if you were considering Obama as a candidate in the Democratic primaries? If so, what things and why?

[Tigermike 3,055]

Ok, would you find anything in this article troubling if you were considering Obama as a candidate in the Democratic primaries? If so, what things and why?

No he wouldn't and he could never bring himself to say Obama's church is racist.

[TexasTiger 13,028]

Ok, would you find anything in this article troubling if you were considering Obama as a candidate in the Democratic primaries? If so, what things and why?

Instead of me taking the time to break down an entire Newsmax article written with its particular slant, why don't you tell me the key points you find troubling, assuming there are such points, and ask me to respond to those.

I will say we've hit this from a different angle a few weeks back, though:

http://www.aunation.net/forums/index.php?s...mp;#entry381632

As far as a church being a "cauldron of division", the history of the Southern Baptist denomination could lend support to a similar characterization.

[Tigermike 3,055]

As far as a church being a "cauldron of division", the history of the Southern Baptist denomination could lend support to a similar characterization.

But Tex, we aren't talking about the Southern Baptist.

[TexasTiger 13,028]

As far as a church being a "cauldron of division", the history of the Southern Baptist denomination could lend support to a similar characterization.

But Tex, we aren't talking about the Southern Baptist.

The greatest challenge of understanding another's positon is being able to see their perspective, whether you agree with it or not.

[otterinbham 0]

Man. It's just like being in the yard back at school. Nobody's backin' down, nobody's making the first move.

[Tigermike 3,055]

As far as a church being a "cauldron of division", the history of the Southern Baptist denomination could lend support to a similar characterization.

But Tex, we aren't talking about the Southern Baptist.

The greatest challenge of understanding another's positon is being able to see their perspective, whether you agree with it or not.

And your perspective is that:

Obama's church is racist.

Obama's church is not racist.

The point is you stated in the previous thread that he and his church was not racist and you had no problems with their stated positions.

[TitanTiger 20,511]

My issue isn't with the denomination, so the Southern Baptist thing isn't really a good comparison. I'm just going on the statements and actions of the pastor. Based on the things he's said and done, and Obama's stated desire for people on each side to tone down the rhetoric and stop demonizing each other, I'm surprised that he would be nodding in agreement to statements about "white arrogance" and "The United States of White America." I'm also dismayed that Obama would fail to say something more substantive than "we don't agree on everything" when you consider the things Wright has done and said.

Obama is a candidate that rocketed to notoriety on the heels of a great speech at the 2004 Democratic Convention that emphasized themes of people across the political spectrum working together and not continuing to let the extremes of their side polarize the debate. It's been a recurring theme in his speeches and his book. So I find it troubling and curious that he would remain so close to such an firebrand like Wright that does the exact opposite of everything Obama stands for in this regard. And frankly, I'm not sure I'd want someone running this country who willingly sits under the teaching of such an out and out racist.

[bojack34 2]

My issue isn't with the denomination, so the Southern Baptist thing isn't really a good comparison. I'm just going on the statements and actions of the pastor. Based on the things he's said and done, and Obama's stated desire for people on each side to tone down the rhetoric and stop demonizing each other, I'm surprised that he would be nodding in agreement to statements about "white arrogance" and "The United States of White America." I'm also dismayed that Obama would fail to say something more substantive than "we don't agree on everything" when you consider the things Wright has done and said.

Obama is a candidate that rocketed to notoriety on the heels of a great speech at the 2004 Democratic Convention that emphasized themes of people across the political spectrum working together and not continuing to let the extremes of their side polarize the debate. It's been a recurring theme in his speeches and his book. So I find it troubling and curious that he would remain so close to such an firebrand like Wright that does the exact opposite of everything Obama stands for in this regard. And frankly, I'm not sure I'd want someone running this country who willingly sits under the teaching of such an out and out racist.

All I can say is " I told you so." my thoughts on Obama

[TexasTiger 13,028]

My issue isn't with the denomination, so the Southern Baptist thing isn't really a good comparison. I'm just going on the statements and actions of the pastor. Based on the things he's said and done, and Obama's stated desire for people on each side to tone down the rhetoric and stop demonizing each other, I'm surprised that he would be nodding in agreement to statements about "white arrogance" and "The United States of White America." I'm also dismayed that Obama would fail to say something more substantive than "we don't agree on everything" when you consider the things Wright has done and said.

Obama is a candidate that rocketed to notoriety on the heels of a great speech at the 2004 Democratic Convention that emphasized themes of people across the political spectrum working together and not continuing to let the extremes of their side polarize the debate. It's been a recurring theme in his speeches and his book. So I find it troubling and curious that he would remain so close to such an firebrand like Wright that does the exact opposite of everything Obama stands for in this regard. And frankly, I'm not sure I'd want someone running this country who willingly sits under the teaching of such an out and out racist.

We see this one differently.

I'm just going on the statements and actions of the pastor. Based on the things he's said and done...

With all due respect, I would suggest that if your basing your conclusions primarily on the above article, you have pretty limited, almost non-existent, view of what this 65 year-old man has said and done in his life.

First of all, this article and the website the writer writes for has a strong agenda, and this article has a very strong slant (for example, he mentions Wright went to Cuba, but leaves out that he went to teach Christians about the power of non-violent protests) that I suspect was largely determined before he ever walked into the church.

We don't really know if Obama "nodded in agreement" with anything-- we don't even know what specifically this very biased writer claims Obama agreed with. We don't really even know what was said. We have phrases taken totally out of any context-- "white arrogance" and "The United States of White America." How were those phrases used? What was the larger point or context? I prefer to hear or read someone's own words before judging them so harshly. Should I only trust how a diarist on the Daily Kos characterizes a speaker from the right before forming such a strong opinion about them?

Based on what I know so far, I don't have the same reaction that you do to what Wright has supposedly said. "White arrogance" is not a phrase he coined, and I suspect that people of color in many parts of the world, including this country, would chuckle at the notion that us white folks here take great umbrage at the notion that something that might be termed "white arrogance" exist.

There is a history of something that has been termed "white arrogance" that supported the notion of slavery in this country. The impact of that mindset has not totally diminished, even if far fewer people now believe what many believed then about the inferiority of darker races. You're a bit younger than me, but I certainly remember a great deal of "white arrogance" in the Alabama I grew up in, and I suspect you did, too.

And does the phrase "United States of White America" refer to the power structure in this country? How representative of America is the United States Senate? One mixed race man who is considered black out of 100? One Senator of Mexican descent? Largely, who are the power brokers in this country? Is recognizing those facts "racist?" Is stating an observation that "white arrogance" exists "racist"? Not in my opinion.

I've read a few interviews and one sermon by Rev. Wright and was not offended at all. This is no Farakan.

The following is from one of his sermons:

If we are to regain a holistic look on life, if we are to regain a vision for humanity that sees all of God's children as persons to be loved, then we, too, must be honest and "name" what it is we need by confessing where it is we are.

This is from an interview:

Talbot: You told me earlier you only have them for an hour or so a week. What are your greatest concerns about our young people?

Wright: The impact of negative fourth-estate realities in their lives: the media, hip-hop, gangster rap. Not all hip-hop. There is some very positive hip-hop and rap music, but gangster rap that denigrates women, that uses the kind of profanity that it uses. Those kinds of images that they spend so much time with on a day-to-day basis. My fear is that the message of the church will be muffled by it.

Talbot: And your hope?

Wright: My hope is that persons of faith will not give up hope or continue to work with young lives because if we touch one life, that one life will have many other lives that it will touch positively.

http://www.csec.org/csec/sermon/wright_4309.htm

And this interview:

SPIEGEL: Barack Obama has been criticized as a so-called "post-racial politician" who shies away from those interests traditionally important to black voters in the United States...

Wright: I think that criticism is unjustified. It's a cute term, but he shouldn't be criticized for who he is -- a person who doesn't "play the race card," but who instead talks about the issues. Look at it this way. Nobody wants their wives to live in fear of getting from the house to the grocery store or to her job. Whether they're black wives or white wives isn't the issue. I don't care what color they are. The bullets don't discriminate. We've got to do something to make sure they have a safe environment. Now to call that post-racial is unfair. We've got some common needs that we need to address. How do we put policies in place that will ensure their safety in the future? That's the kind of politician Barack is.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,471221,00.html

I'm also dismayed that Obama would fail to say something more substantive than "we don't agree on everything" when you consider the things Wright has done and said.

You don't really know what Obama said and what exactly it was in reference to. You know the portion of the NYT piece this writer chose to print. He knows what the NYT writer chose to print, which at least included more:

“Reverend Wright is a child of the 60s, and he often expresses himself in that language of concern with institutional racism and the struggles the African-American community has gone through,” Mr. Obama said.

“He analyzes public events in the context of race. I tend to look at them through the context of social justice and inequality.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/30/us/polit...nyt&emc=rss

Why does Obama attend this church? He found his Christianity there:

It was a 1988 sermon called “The Audacity to Hope” that turned Mr. Obama, in his late 20s, from spiritual outsider to enthusiastic churchgoer. Mr. Wright in the sermon jumped from 19th-century art to his own youthful brushes with crime and Islam to illustrate faith’s power to inspire underdogs. Mr. Obama was seeing the same thing in public housing projects where poor residents sustained themselves through sheer belief.

In “Dreams From My Father,” Mr. Obama described his teary-eyed reaction to the minister’s words. “Inside the thousands of churches across the city, I imagined the stories of ordinary black people merging with the stories of David and Goliath, Moses and Pharaoh, the Christians in the lion’s den, Ezekiel’s field of dry bones,” Mr. Obama wrote. “Those stories — of survival, and freedom, and hope — became our story, my story.”

Mr. Obama was baptized that year, and joining Trinity helped him “embrace the African-American community in a way that was whole and profound,” said Ms. Soetoro, his half sister.

Wright seems to have a gift for making the scripture relevant to folks in his community for whom having faith is especiallly important.

I think this is an overstatement:

So I find it troubling and curious that he would remain so close to such an firebrand like Wright that does the exact opposite of everything Obama stands for in this regard.

They are not identicial, but from the actual words of the Rev. I have read, they aren't exact opposites, either.

Also, if Wright were racist or separatist, why be a minister in a denomination that is predominately white?

Now all that said, this will be a recurrent issue for Obama, especially if he gets the nomination. I'm sure the Reverend's words, including cherry picked excerpts for effect, will get more scrutiny and Obama will be asked to further clarify his views vis-a-vis the Reverend.

[GalensGhost 0]

blah, blah, blah apologist nonsense

blah, blah, blah stretch to rationalize

blah, blah, blah eyes closed refuse to see

blah, blah, blah, fingers in ears, refuse to hear

blah, blah, blah

Wright personifies racism. If Obama is a member of this church and adheres to the rantings coming from "rev" Wright, he's just as bad.

These clowns are the ones that keep racism alive and well. These clowns are the ones who won't let it die. It advances their agenda to pretend that whitey is the devil.

[TexasTiger 13,028]

blah, blah, blah apologist nonsense

blah, blah, blah stretch to rationalize

blah, blah, blah eyes closed refuse to see

blah, blah, blah, fingers in ears, refuse to hear

blah, blah, blah

Wright personifies racism. If Obama is a member of this church and adheres to the rantings coming from "rev" Wright, he's just as bad.

These clowns are the ones that keep racism alive and well. These clowns are the ones who won't let it die. It advances their agenda to pretend that whitey is the devil.

And I think you're a racist. You just may not notice since you hate everybody.

[GalensGhost 0]

And I think you're a racist. You just may not notice since you hate everybody.

What you think doesn't amount to a chihuahua fart in China. What you can prove does.

Wright's statements prove him to be nothing more than a race-baiter, a hater of white people and a racist of the worst ilk. You can't seriously deduce otherwise. Calling him a racist isn't a matter of opinion, it's a matter of fact.

Your unverified, unsubstantiated opinion is that I, too, am a racist. I may well be, but you could never prove it so.

[TexasTiger 13,028]

And I think you're a racist. You just may not notice since you hate everybody.

What you think doesn't amount to a chihuahua fart in China. What you can prove does.

Wright's statements prove him to be nothing more than a race-baiter, a hater of white people and a racist of the worst ilk. You can't seriously deduce otherwise. Calling him a racist isn't a matter of opinion, it's a matter of fact.

Your unverified, unsubstantiated opinion is that I, too, am a racist. I may well be, but you could never prove it so.

You've clearly demonstrated that you are a racist. No further discussion on that fact is necessary.

[GalensGhost 0]

You've clearly demonstrated that you are a racist. No further discussion on that fact is necessary.

Riiiiiiight....

Roll the video. Oh wait, there's not any. But we got plenty on the Reverend, now, don't we?