Honda Begins Production of Zero-Emission Hydrogen Cars

[RunInRed 16,409]

Our energy source of the future? Two thumbs up for Honda...

TAKANEZAWA, Japan — Honda Motor Co. has begun commercial production of its new zero-emission, hydrogen fuel cell car, called the FCX Clarity.

The midsize four-seat sedan, which runs on hydrogen and electricity, emits only wator vapor and none of the gases believed to be responsible for global warming.

Honda says the vehicle offers two times better fuel efficiency than a gas-electric hybrid and three times that of a traditional gasoline-powered vehicle.

The car will initially be available for lease starting July to a limited number of customers in southern California and then in Japan later this year.

One of the biggest obstacles standing in the way of wider adoption of fuel cell vehicles is cost and the lack of hydrogen fueling stations.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,367244,00.html

[TitanTiger 20,482]

I thought a third obstacle to these fuel cell vehicles is that the energy it takes to produce the hydrogen for the cars actually ends up polluting more than the production and use of gasoline does.

[AUTiger1 0]

I thought I saw something on Fox this morning when I was getting ready for work about Toyota is coming out with a car in 2010 that is just like the Chevy Volt. Of course that was 3:30 this am and I my mind may have thought Toyota and they were talking about Honda.

Did anyone catch that or do I need to chalk it up to not being fully awake yet?

[bigsixfive 327]

I thought a third obstacle to these fuel cell vehicles is that the energy it takes to produce the hydrogen for the cars actually ends up polluting more than the production and use of gasoline does.

Depends on how you produce it. Nuclear energy would be clean. Coal energy wouldn't be. Also, termites, of all things, can produce 2L of hydrogen off one 8.5x11 sheet of paper.

I do have a conspiracy theory with hydrogen vehicles (and I'm not alone)... I think there exists a way to create the hydrogen on board, but if that is true, the government can't impose a fuel tax. Therefore, they're only interested in solutions that require the use of fuel stations.

[RunInRed 16,409]

I still can't wait to see the looks on the Saudis faces when the world sends a loud and clear message that your crude oil is worth next to nothing because we don't need it any more. Now whether hydrogen is that answer or not who knows...but one thing is certain, an alternative is coming.

[bigsixfive 327]

I still can't wait to see the looks on the Saudis faces when the world sends a loud and clear message that your crude oil is worth next to nothing because we don't need it any more. Now whether hydrogen is that answer or not who knows...but one thing is certain, an alternative is coming.

We could send that message now by, you know... DRILLING.

[RunInRed 16,409]

I still can't wait to see the looks on the Saudis faces when the world sends a loud and clear message that your crude oil is worth next to nothing because we don't need it any more. Now whether hydrogen is that answer or not who knows...but one thing is certain, an alternative is coming.

We could send that message now by, you know... DRILLING.

Not really. That message would be:

"Hey we still need crude oil, just maybe not as much as before. But don't worry, it will take us at least 10 years to get any. Also, we hope you notice that instead of investing in alternatives, we are going to try to drill our way out of this problem, thus prolonging the choke hold you and your OPEC brethern have us in."

Forever at your whim,

Big Oil and the RNC

[bigsixfive 327]

Not really. That message would be:

"Hey we still need crude oil, just maybe not as much not as before. But don't worry, it will take us at least 10 years to get any. Also, we hope you notice that instead of investing in alternatives, we are going to try to drill our way out of this problem, thus prolonging the choke hold you and your OPEC brethern have us in."

Forever at your whim,

Big Oil and the RNC

Why is this such a black or white issue to you? Why can't both options be executed - drill AND find other solutions? Solutions in the gray area DO exist.

[RunInRed 16,409]

Not really. That message would be:

"Hey we still need crude oil, just maybe not as much not as before. But don't worry, it will take us at least 10 years to get any. Also, we hope you notice that instead of investing in alternatives, we are going to try to drill our way out of this problem, thus prolonging the choke hold you and your OPEC brethern have us in."

Forever at your whim,

Big Oil and the RNC

Why is this such a black or white issue to you? Why can't both options be executed - drill AND find other solutions? Solutions in the gray area DO exist.

Because I think many of you have been duped into thinking that by drilling, gas will instantly drop down to $1.00/gallon. I find the whole mindset behind drilling wrong. It's the equivalent of feeding an obese child more fast food when you know there is better way.

A couple of points to consider that the "drill now" crowd never mentions:

1) The people on the coasts and in Alaska don't want drilling/more refineries in their backyards

2) Any output from new exploration would not likely reach the retail markets for 10 years or more

3) Factoring in world-wide increases on demand, it's very likely that offsetting OPEC oil with new production will have very little effect on prices

4) We are on the cusp of a clean, cheap, alternative forms of energy

For the most part, we will be off of oil by 2025. And as this article shows, alternative forms of energy are right around the corner. Considering what we know, drilling at this point makes zero sense.

[RunInRed 16,409]

A little more info...

AP

Honda rolls out new zero-emission car

Monday June 16, 11:31 am ET

By Tomoko A. Hosaka, Associated Press Writer

Honda rolls out new zero-emission, hydrogen fuel cell car for southern California

The FCX Clarity is an improvement of its previous-generation fuel cell vehicle, the FCX, introduced in 2005.

A breakthrough in the design of the fuel cell stack, which is the unit that powers the car's motor, allowed engineers to lighten the body, expand the interior and increase efficiency, Honda said.

The fuel cell draws on energy synthesized through a chemical reaction between hydrogen gas and oxygen in the air, and a lithium-ion battery pack provides supplemental power. The FCX Clarity has a range of about 270-miles per tank with hydrogen consumption equivalent to 74 miles per gallon, according to the carmaker.

The 3,600-pound vehicle can reach speeds up to 100 miles per hour.

John Mendel, executive vice president of America Honda Motor Co., said at a morning ceremony it was "an especially significant day for American Honda as we plant firm footsteps toward the mainstreaming of fuel cell cars."

The biggest obstacles standing in the way of wider adoption of fuel cell vehicles are cost and the dearth of hydrogen fuel stations. For the Clarity's release in California, Honda said it received 50,000 applications through its website but could only consider those living near stations in Torrance, Santa Monica and Irvine.

Initially, however, the Clarity will go only to a chosen few starting July and then launch in Japan this fall.

California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger has called for a statewide network of hydrogen stations, but progress has been slow.

The state has also recently relaxed a mandate for the number of zero-emission cars it aims to have on roads. By 2014, automakers must now sell 7,500 electric and hydrogen fuel cell vehicles, a reduction of 70 percent.

Spallino, who currently drives Honda's older FCX and was also flown in for the ceremony, said he will use the Clarity to drive to and from work and for destinations within the Los Angeles area. The small number of hydrogen fuel stations is the "single limiting factor" for fuel cell vehicles, he said.

"It's more comfortable, and it handles well," said Spallino of Redondo Beach. "It's got everything. You're not sacrificing anything except range."

The world's major automakers have been making heavy investments in fuel cells and other alternative fuel vehicles amid climbing oil prices and concerns about climate change.

Although Honda Motor Co. was the first Japanese automaker to launch a gas-electric hybrid vehicle in the U.S. in 1999, it has been outpaced by the dominance of Toyota's popular Prius.

Toyota announced in May that it has sold more than 1 million Prius hybrids, while both the Honda Insight and the hybrid Accord have been discontinued due to poor sales.

Honda also plans to launch a gas-electric hybrid-only model, as well as hybrid versions of the Civic, the sporty CR-Z and Fit subcompact.

Toyota has announced that it would launch a plug-in hybrid with next-generation lithium-ion batteries by 2010 and a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle later in Japan later this year.

U.S. carmaker General Motors Corp. plans to introduce a Chevrolet Volt plug-in electric vehicle in 2010. It also introduced a test-fleet of hydrogen fuel cell Equinox SUVs.

Honda has no plans for a plug-in electric vehicle. President Takeo Fukui said he does not believe current battery technology is good enough to develop a feasible car.

The company has not revealed how much each car costs to make, and it is unclear when, or if, the car will be available for mass-market sales. Takeo has set a target for 2018, but meeting that goal will depend on whether Honda can significantly lower development and assembly costs as well as market reaction to fuel cells.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080616/japan_honda.html

[AUTiger1 0]

Not really. That message would be:

"Hey we still need crude oil, just maybe not as much not as before. But don't worry, it will take us at least 10 years to get any. Also, we hope you notice that instead of investing in alternatives, we are going to try to drill our way out of this problem, thus prolonging the choke hold you and your OPEC brethern have us in."

Forever at your whim,

Big Oil and the RNC

Why is this such a black or white issue to you? Why can't both options be executed - drill AND find other solutions? Solutions in the gray area DO exist.

Because I think many of you have been duped into thinking that by drilling, gas will instantly drop down to $1.00/gallon. I find the whole mindset behind drilling wrong. It's the equivalent of feeding an obese child more fast food when you know there is better way.

A couple of points to consider that the "drill now" crowd never mentions:

1) The people on the coasts and in Alaska don't want drilling/more refineries in their backyards

2) Any output from new exploration would not likely reach the retail markets for 10 years or more

3) Factoring in world-wide increases on demand, it's very likely that offsetting OPEC oil with new production will have very little effect on prices

4) We are on the cusp of a clean, cheap, alternative forms of energy

For the most part, we will be off of oil by 2025. And as this article shows, alternative forms of energy are right around the corner. Considering what we know, drilling at this point makes zero sense.

I don't think anyone here is claiming that it will lower it $1.00/gallon, and drilling includes a lot more than petroleum, do you not realize the abundant amount of natural gas there is off the gulf coast alone? Tap that, run it to homes in the North that use petroleum to heat and you have eliminated one use for petroleum already and it is a lot more affordable than petroleum. Why not drill what we have, so what if it takes 10 years? Even if we do have some source of alternative energy by then and our cars run off something other than petroleum or something that won't drive our food prices higher, do you not think that we could make some major money in exports?

Do you have a link for the people of Alaska not wanting to drill? Rep Young, Senators Stevens and Murkowski, seem to think that is what their want. You can check out their sites. Also this snippet from CNN:

Maybe ANWR holds untold riches, or maybe it holds nothing. The only way to find out is to drill. Alaskans are eager to begin. Oil accounts for 80% of the state's total revenue, and Prudhoe Bay, the state's golden goose, is in long, slow decline.

link

Is it that they don't want to drill, or is it that you are so much against it that is what you want to believe?

Also, point #4 you made, you dang right we are on the cusp, we are actually there, if the environmental nutjobs would allow us to build more nuclear plants we could have a lot of cheap and clean energy. If the French can do it and be successfully the worlds largest exporter of electric power, taken from out technology then I know we can for sure do it. They are about to the point where they have figured out a way to take the spent fuel and recycle it and use it

[AUTiger1 0]

A little more info...

AP

Honda rolls out new zero-emission car

Monday June 16, 11:31 am ET

By Tomoko A. Hosaka, Associated Press Writer

Honda rolls out new zero-emission, hydrogen fuel cell car for southern California

The FCX Clarity is an improvement of its previous-generation fuel cell vehicle, the FCX, introduced in 2005.

A breakthrough in the design of the fuel cell stack, which is the unit that powers the car's motor, allowed engineers to lighten the body, expand the interior and increase efficiency, Honda said.

The fuel cell draws on energy synthesized through a chemical reaction between hydrogen gas and oxygen in the air, and a lithium-ion battery pack provides supplemental power. The FCX Clarity has a range of about 270-miles per tank with hydrogen consumption equivalent to 74 miles per gallon, according to the carmaker.

The 3,600-pound vehicle can reach speeds up to 100 miles per hour.

John Mendel, executive vice president of America Honda Motor Co., said at a morning ceremony it was "an especially significant day for American Honda as we plant firm footsteps toward the mainstreaming of fuel cell cars."

The biggest obstacles standing in the way of wider adoption of fuel cell vehicles are cost and the dearth of hydrogen fuel stations. For the Clarity's release in California, Honda said it received 50,000 applications through its website but could only consider those living near stations in Torrance, Santa Monica and Irvine.

Initially, however, the Clarity will go only to a chosen few starting July and then launch in Japan this fall.

California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger has called for a statewide network of hydrogen stations, but progress has been slow.

The state has also recently relaxed a mandate for the number of zero-emission cars it aims to have on roads. By 2014, automakers must now sell 7,500 electric and hydrogen fuel cell vehicles, a reduction of 70 percent.

Spallino, who currently drives Honda's older FCX and was also flown in for the ceremony, said he will use the Clarity to drive to and from work and for destinations within the Los Angeles area. The small number of hydrogen fuel stations is the "single limiting factor" for fuel cell vehicles, he said.

"It's more comfortable, and it handles well," said Spallino of Redondo Beach. "It's got everything. You're not sacrificing anything except range."

The world's major automakers have been making heavy investments in fuel cells and other alternative fuel vehicles amid climbing oil prices and concerns about climate change.

Although Honda Motor Co. was the first Japanese automaker to launch a gas-electric hybrid vehicle in the U.S. in 1999, it has been outpaced by the dominance of Toyota's popular Prius.

Toyota announced in May that it has sold more than 1 million Prius hybrids, while both the Honda Insight and the hybrid Accord have been discontinued due to poor sales.

Honda also plans to launch a gas-electric hybrid-only model, as well as hybrid versions of the Civic, the sporty CR-Z and Fit subcompact.

Toyota has announced that it would launch a plug-in hybrid with next-generation lithium-ion batteries by 2010 and a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle later in Japan later this year.

U.S. carmaker General Motors Corp. plans to introduce a Chevrolet Volt plug-in electric vehicle in 2010. It also introduced a test-fleet of hydrogen fuel cell Equinox SUVs.

Honda has no plans for a plug-in electric vehicle. President Takeo Fukui said he does not believe current battery technology is good enough to develop a feasible car.

The company has not revealed how much each car costs to make, and it is unclear when, or if, the car will be available for mass-market sales. Takeo has set a target for 2018, but meeting that goal will depend on whether Honda can significantly lower development and assembly costs as well as market reaction to fuel cells.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080616/japan_honda.html

How cheap are they going to be? Can the poor afford one? If the poor can hardly afford a $2000 used car how do you expect them to buy a brand new car? As for that matter, are they going to be cheap enough that you and me can afford one? How long will it be before all the kinks and bugs will be worked out, how expensive will repairs be?

I am not saying this isn't a good thing, it is. But to just sit on the worlds most needed resource is beyond stupid in my position.

[CCTAU 3,326]

4) We are on the cusp of a clean, cheap, alternative forms of energy

This is really number 1 to you and your kind. You know what's best for us, so it's OK to FORCE us to find an alternative fuel...for our own good. Librul pomposity!

The price of oil is not following a strict supply and demand model. Speculators used Katrina as a way to open the door to fear induced price hikes. Right now, a positive shift in thinking will create a drop in the price per barrel. That positive shift is if we tell the world we are drilling along WITH continuing to find alternative fuels.

To think that a magical bullet is JUST around the corner is a dim fantasy. And if it is just around the corner, what would drilling hurt? Probably only the feelings of the Greenies and their misplaced loyalty to mother earth instead of fellow man. We, as a country, managed to fight a world war on two fronts, surely we can drill and find an alternative at the same time. I have faith in the American people, not the government.

[Auburn85 432]

I know very well $1 a gallon gas is over.

At this very moment, I'm more concerned with energy independence than I am $1 a gallon gas. Energy independence allows us to not worry about importing oil from hostile Middle East countries.

And I know very well, that if we drilled anywhere as of tomorrow, it will be years before we start seeing any oil in the markets.

So much for working across the aisle huh? We can start both whenever the politicians want too, but it's like "no, we can only do my idea OR we continue to hold ourselves hostage."

There is absoluetly nothing wrong with more development of other sources of alternative energy such as nuclear, ethanol, etc AND drilling.

[tiger88 934]

I still can't wait to see the looks on the Saudis faces when the world sends a loud and clear message that your crude oil is worth next to nothing because we don't need it any more. Now whether hydrogen is that answer or not who knows...but one thing is certain, an alternative is coming.

We could send that message now by, you know... DRILLING.

Not really. That message would be:

"Hey we still need crude oil, just maybe not as much as before. But don't worry, it will take us at least 10 years to get any. Also, we hope you notice that instead of investing in alternatives, we are going to try to drill our way out of this problem, thus prolonging the choke hold you and your OPEC brethern have us in."

Forever at your whim,

Big Oil and the RNC

Can you not comprehend the amount of time it will take, best case scenario, to ween ourselves off of oil as much as possible and introduce an alternative energy source that can sustain what we have going now? I have no idea how long it would take but common sense tells that it will be many years and if we don't do something soon about it we will be f#$%ed.

[Auburn85 432]

I still can't wait to see the looks on the Saudis faces when the world sends a loud and clear message that your crude oil is worth next to nothing because we don't need it any more. Now whether hydrogen is that answer or not who knows...but one thing is certain, an alternative is coming.

We could send that message now by, you know... DRILLING.

Not really. That message would be:

"Hey we still need crude oil, just maybe not as much as before. But don't worry, it will take us at least 10 years to get any. Also, we hope you notice that instead of investing in alternatives, we are going to try to drill our way out of this problem, thus prolonging the choke hold you and your OPEC brethern have us in."

Forever at your whim,

Big Oil and the RNC

You know Obama probably isn't proud of this rhetoric by you. Obama is supposed to be about Unity and moving the country forward, but you're content on stooping to this level, yet representing the ideas of Obama. Just say you want it both ways and I'll let it go.

[Auburn85 432]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12400801/

Oil prices hit new record high, then reverse

NEW YORK - Crude oil futures swung wildly on Monday, rising to a record and then tumbling as investors wrestled with whether they should put stock in Saudi Arabia’s promise to boost production. Retail gas prices rose to a record $4.08 a gallon.

Light, sweet crude for July delivery fell 29 cents to $134.57 a barrel in afternoon trading on the New York Mercantile Exchange after earlier soaring to a trading record of $139.89.

With little in the way of news to explain oil’s decline, analysts pointed to Saudi Arabia’s weekend decision to boost production and to Tuesday’s expiration of crude options, or agreements to buy or sell futures at higher lower prices.

Trading is often volatile in the days immediately preceding options expiration. “That could be the cause of some of the volatility today,” said James Cordier, president of Tampa, Fla.-based trading firms Liberty Trading Group and OptionSellers.com.

Saudi Arabia, the world’s largest oil producer, told U.N. chief Ban Ki-moon over the weekend that it would boost oil output by 200,000 barrels a day, or by 2 percent, from June to July. In May, the kingdom raised production by 300,000 barrels a day.

A sense that the Saudis may be getting serious about boosting output could be growing among some investors. Still, many analysts believe the boost in Saudi output is too little to make much difference.

“Saudi Arabia’s proposed output addition will only go some way in offsetting the significant output losses in other OPEC nations like Nigeria,” said Barclays Capital analyst Kevin Norrish in a research note.

Cordier said Saudi Arabia has “to increase by north of 1 million barrels per day” to have an impact on prices, “and the market doesn’t think they have it.”

According to the International Energy Agency, OPEC spare capacity fell below 2 million barrels a day in May for the first time since 2006. The majority of that — about 1.45 million barrels a day — was in Saudi Arabia.

Earlier Monday, prices rose as the dollar fell against the euro. Many investors buy commodities such as oil as a hedge against inflation when the dollar falls. Also, a weaker dollar makes oil less expensive to investors dealing in other currencies. Many analysts believe the dollar’s protracted decline is a major factor behind oil’s doubling in price over the past year.

Investors were also mulling the effects of an overnight fire at a StatoilHydro ASA drilling rig in the North Sea, which could affect as much as 150,000 barrels of daily oil production, said Addison Armstrong, director of market research at Tradition Energy in Stamford, Conn., in a research note.

At the pump, meanwhile, the national average price of a gallon of gas rose 0.3 cent overnight to its latest milestone, according to AAA and the Oil Price Information Service. Gas prices are following crude prices higher, and likely have several more cents to rise before catching up with oil’s latest advance.

If oil prices pass $140 and head even higher, the pain consumers are feeling at the pump will intensify.

Diesel fuel prices held steady Monday at a record $4.797 a gallon. High prices for diesel, used to transport most of the world’s food, are pushing food prices higher, putting even more pressure on consumers.

In other Nymex trading, July gasoline futures fell 2.97 cents to $3.4329 a gallon, while July heating oil futures fell 0.52 cents to $3.8316 a gallon.

July natural gas futures rose 30.9 cents to $12.934 per 1,000 cubic feet.

Anadarko Petroleum Corp. said Monday that natural gas production from a project in the deep waters of the Gulf of Mexico has been restored, hitting a gross rate of about 900 million cubic feet per day. Output from the Independence Hub was halted April 8 after a pipeline leak was found.

In London, August Brent crude futures fell 22 cents to $134.89 on the ICE Futures exchange.

A Winfall Profits Tax will not lower the price at the pump. Sitting back and doing nothing will not lower the price at the pump. How high will groceries have to get before we get serious about energy independence?

[RunInRed 16,409]

Some more points in responses to the posts above:

1) I am not necessarily anti-drilling but I have yet to hear a sound business case for it

2) When weighing the pros and cons of investing in drilling vs. alternatives, I think the winner is obvious

3) For the "why can't we do both" crowd I say show me better evidence of oil deposits (e.g., Boone Pickens thinks ANWR is a joke) , production timelines, green extraction methodologies, citizens who want this exploration in their backyards, and sound proof this will decrease prices in the long-term

4) I'm fine with expanding nuclear as long as it can be done safely and some one can answer this question: where do we store the waste?

5) Lastly and most importantly, this thread is outstanding. These are the types of issues this election season should be about. BRAVO to all who are participating.

[autigeremt 6,615]

3) For the "why can't we do both" crowd I say show me better evidence of oil deposits (e.g., Boone Pickens thinks ANWR is a joke) , production timelines, green extraction methodologies, citizens who want this exploration in their backyards, and sound proof this will decrease prices in the long-term

Much like anything else, if you stand back and "talk" about it and not DO anything about it, NOTHING get's done (AKA: CONGRESS)

[lukeduke 8]

I thought a third obstacle to these fuel cell vehicles is that the energy it takes to produce the hydrogen for the cars actually ends up polluting more than the production and use of gasoline does.

Depends on how you produce it. Nuclear energy would be clean. Coal energy wouldn't be. Also, termites, of all things, can produce 2L of hydrogen off one 8.5x11 sheet of paper.

I do have a conspiracy theory with hydrogen vehicles (and I'm not alone)... I think there exists a way to create the hydrogen on board, but if that is true, the government can't impose a fuel tax. Therefore, they're only interested in solutions that require the use of fuel stations.

Since water is two parts hydrogen and one part oxygen...I think you're on to something.

[BamaGrad03 0]

Not really. That message would be:

"Hey we still need crude oil, just maybe not as much as before. But don't worry, it will take us at least 10 years to get any. Also, we hope you notice that instead of investing in alternatives, we are going to try to drill our way out of this problem, thus prolonging the choke hold you and your OPEC brethern have us in."

Forever at your whim,

Big Oil and the RNC

If you think "Big Oil" wants a ton of domestic oil production and $30 a barrel oil again, you couldn't be more wrong.

Big Oil and futures speculators are the LAST people who want us to drill for oil. Status quo has kept their coffers overflowing.

[RunInRed 16,409]

I thought a third obstacle to these fuel cell vehicles is that the energy it takes to produce the hydrogen for the cars actually ends up polluting more than the production and use of gasoline does.

Depends on how you produce it. Nuclear energy would be clean. Coal energy wouldn't be. Also, termites, of all things, can produce 2L of hydrogen off one 8.5x11 sheet of paper.

I do have a conspiracy theory with hydrogen vehicles (and I'm not alone)... I think there exists a way to create the hydrogen on board, but if that is true, the government can't impose a fuel tax. Therefore, they're only interested in solutions that require the use of fuel stations.

Since water is two parts hydrogen and one part oxygen...I think you're on to something.

See article above...no?

A breakthrough in the design of the fuel cell stack, which is the unit that powers the car's motor, allowed engineers to lighten the body, expand the interior and increase efficiency, Honda said.

The fuel cell draws on energy synthesized through a chemical reaction between hydrogen gas and oxygen in the air, and a lithium-ion battery pack provides supplemental power. The FCX Clarity has a range of about 270-miles per tank with hydrogen consumption equivalent to 74 miles per gallon, according to the carmaker.

[AUTiger1 0]

Some more points in responses to the posts above:

1) I am not necessarily anti-drilling but I have yet to hear a sound business case for it So the money to be made with exporting it is not a good idea? How many times does it have to be pointed out that drilling will also allow us to tap into our Natural Gas resources, or should we just let them stay there too? If you can pipe the natural gas to heat homes up north where people are going broke having to buy petroleum in their homes it is a win win situation. We use less petroleum and those struggling have a cheaper alternative. Your boy Boone Pickens is even for that.

2) When weighing the pros and cons of investing in drilling vs. alternatives, I think the winner is obvious How many oil spills happened during Katrina, how far along has the drilling technology come so that it is safe, how many Nuclear Plants have blown up and leaked radiation everywhere, other than the Russkies? Ask an engineer who operates a nuclear plant and ask them how piss poor of a design Chernobyl truly was and how it was arrogance that led to the meltdown.

3) For the "why can't we do both" crowd I say show me better evidence of oil deposits (e.g., Boone Pickens thinks ANWR is a joke) , production timelines, green extraction methodologies, citizens who want this exploration in their backyards, and sound proof this will decrease prices in the long-term Once again I ask you to provide a link to show that the majority of Alaskans don't want this. I provided you with a link from CNN that stated the citizens of Alaska want it, and Rep Young and Senators Stevens, and Murkowski say that is what their constituents want. You do know that there is the oil shale in the Rockies and Dakotas, and there is oil off the Gulf Coast, don't you? TigerMike posted the links on here. The Rand Corporation claims there is as much as 800 billion barrels of oil in the Rockies. 3 times the amount of Saudi Arabia, $20 billion a year could be seen for companies, and it could add up to 100,000 jobs. I think somewhere around 4 billion barrels in ND and SD.

4) I'm fine with expanding nuclear as long as it can be done safely and some one can answer this question: where do we store the waste? Once again, you do not read. The French have developed ways to recycle the spent fuel. Leads to about 3% of the spent fuel as waste. Once again your boy Boone Pickens is an advocate for that too....which is why I think he may have another agenda than oil and says what he does about the ANWAR. He has also said that he is going to build the worlds largest wind farm and is buying up water rights like crazy. To me everything he says and does leads me to believe that he has an agenda and it is no longer oil.

5) Lastly and most importantly, this thread is outstanding. These are the types of issues this election season should be about. BRAVO to all who are participating.

[Tigermike 3,027]

There will be a hybrid to pull this when?

[kwagoner 214]

There will be a hybrid to pull this when?

They'll have something to pull it soon after they figure out how to pull the teeth of those so strongly against alternative methods.