Why Bo could be the right QB

[AUght2win 6,833]

2 hours ago, GwillMac6 said:

I clearly said SEC play. That is where we measure ourselves and how good we are each year. Why would I count West Virginia? The barometer Was sec play. Why are you trying to bring in the non conference where he got 16 tds to only 6 tds in sec play? He got 16 touchdowns in the 5 non conference games he had that season. He only had 6 touchdowns in the 8 SEC games. And No I am not wrong. It is 6. 0 vs miss st. 1 vs Rocky top. 0 vs arky. 0 vs kentucky. 0 vs LSU. 1 vs Ole Miss. 2 each vs Georgia and Bama.

And if we are pimping the stats that hard, Auburn's 2008 total TD/INT ratio was 7/13. Following year: 25/6. 

[GwillMac6 20,671]

47 minutes ago, AUght2win said:

What an arbitrary-ass way to look at that year. Following a 5-7 season and a full staff turnover, Gus takes a bare cupboard I-form roster and a busted-arm QB and manages to average 31 points a game and a school record year through the air. But nah. Nothin' special. The only true barometer is conference play TD-INT ratio.

Don't forget that our defense was SOOOO bad back then. We were in dogfights nearly every game. Malzahn deserves credit for carrying that group.  

I get your argument. But it's contextually not very good.

Why would I care if we average 46 points per game in Non conference? The best teams with the best defenses we play year in and year out are in our conference. That is how I measure our success and how good of a team we really are. VS THE BEST competition. We are freaking Auburn a top 12 program all time. I dunno why you are making this so hard. That was my argument from the get go. I never tried once to move the goal posts. From the jump I stated what I cared about was how Chris Todd did in conference play. He was not good at all most of the time and his stats reflect that. We averaged only 25 in the 8 conference games. That is what I care about. For goodness sakes we scored only 14 points vs Kentucky AT HOME. and 7 of that was off a return of a missed field goal. 

[GwillMac6 20,671]

33 minutes ago, AUght2win said:

And if we are pimping the stats that hard, Auburn's 2008 total TD/INT ratio was 7/13. Following year: 25/6. 

To be consistent and To follow the theme of my whole premise we were 8/5 in SEC play with td to INT ratio. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

5 hours ago, AUght2win said:

What an arbitrary-ass way to look at that year. Following a 5-7 season and a full staff turnover, Gus takes a bare cupboard I-form roster and a busted-arm QB and manages to average 31 points a game and a school record year through the air. But nah. Nothin' special. The only true barometer is conference play TD-INT ratio.

Don't forget that our defense was SOOOO bad back then. We were in dogfights nearly every game. Malzahn deserves credit for carrying that group.  

I get your argument. But it's contextually not very good.

You don't see a trend? Gus's first year in 2009, good offense, then Cam, then putrid.

Gus's first year back in 2013, amazing offense, then very good again, then a downhill slide ever since.

Gus gets figured out. But he doesn't do any figuring out on his own.

Maybe this will be the year. War. Sigh. Eagle.

[abw0004 10,110]

@GwillMac6 I think the point they were trying to get to was Gus had proven in the past he can adapt to the quarterback he has.  Todd, by all means, was a pocket passer and not a runner.  We are not trying to pump up the 2009 season although it was one heck of a season for me to be a student because no one expected us to be very good after 2008.  I do think Gus can use Bo to his best abilities.  Apparently Gus has more trust in Dilly than we thought, so if Dilly can do what he did at Memphis and give Gus 2 or 3 plays to choose from after reading the defense, I think this could be a good freshmen season for Bo.  Only time will tell.

By the way, @WFE12 thanks for the post.  I enjoyed the read.

[McLoofus 35,182]

8 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

@GwillMac6 I think the point they were trying to get to was Gus had proven in the past he can adapt to the quarterback he has.  Todd, by all means, was a pocket passer and not a runner. 

Gus didn't have to adapt to Todd. He had to adapt to Cam.

His QBs at Tulsa threw 544 and 400 times, respectively. Each had ~100 "rushing attempts", but CFB stats are stupid and count sacks and broken plays as rushing attempts so who knows. 

He hasn't really adapted to anybody since Marshall. Stidham put up pretty good numbers by throwing screen passes to Ryan Davis in 2017 and that's about it. 

[PoetTiger 1,896]

9 hours ago, Maverick.AU said:

Riley could take bo as a true Fr and make him a AA. Gus, if he started him, could possibly ruin his entire career 

Has Riley done this with anyone yet particularly a freshman??? ..Ijs..unless I missed it his greatest QB claims to fame were transfers.....kinda like Gus. Please correct me if I am wrong. 

[cole256 17,051]

Lol and here we go. Comparisons to Tua, QB savior.......it's like sitting on the sidelines wincing getting ready for the wreck!

[Maverick.AU 13,279]

12 minutes ago, PoetTiger said:

Has Riley done this with anyone yet particularly a freshman??? ..Ijs..unless I missed it his greatest QB claims to fame were transfers.....kinda like Gus. Please correct me if I am wrong. 

He molds his offense to the strengths of his QB, and his offense, helping whoever he has at QB be more successful. Something that Gus used to do.

[abw0004 10,110]

45 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

He hasn't really adapted to anybody since Marshall. Stidham put up pretty good numbers by throwing screen passes to Ryan Davis in 2017 and that's about it. 

Slayton and Hastings had a pretty good season with the deep ball too...

[McLoofus 35,182]

3 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

Slayton and Hastings had a pretty good season with the deep ball too...

Pretty good? Sure. I'll agree with pretty good. 

[PoetTiger 1,896]

43 minutes ago, Maverick.AU said:

He molds his offense to the strengths of his QB, and his offense, helping whoever he has at QB be more successful. Something that Gus used to do.

I would say Gus did the same with Cam, Nick, and for 2017 Stidham. White and others were not much to work with IMO. Unless I have missed it Lincoln Riley has not done nothing with a freshman yet. If so he would have not been fishing and got Hurts. His offenses are prolific but the jury is still out on him developing a freshmen QB...just like Gus.

[Auburn2Eugene 2,317]

Freshmen or not, coaching two different players to Heisman trophies in consecutive years says enough about Riley.

[AU64 10,122]

33 minutes ago, PoetTiger said:

I would say Gus did the same with Cam, Nick, and for 2017 Stidham. White and others were not much to work with IMO. Unless I have missed it Lincoln Riley has not done nothing with a freshman yet. If so he would have not been fishing and got Hurts. His offenses are prolific but the jury is still out on him developing a freshmen QB...just like Gus.

And not gonna risk it with a freshman this year either.....JMO he's doing the smart thing as long as he can find good transfer QBs and I don't blame him..  On the other hand, it is disingenuous for people to give him credit for being able to develop a freshman QB when he's never even tried ...and his best prospect bailed out on him this year. 

Look at all the schools doing the transfer bit lately.....Ohio State, LSU, Washington, Wash State, Oklahoma, WVA to mention a few.   Seems there are some pretty good QBs who end up signing where they turn out not to fit well....and some smart coaches are recruiting freshmen each year but also keeping their eyes open for "instant starters" from other schools.  

[PoetTiger 1,896]

41 minutes ago, Auburn2Eugene said:

Freshmen or not, coaching two different players to Heisman trophies in consecutive years says enough about Riley.

I agree. If he ever finds a defense worth anything they will become hard to beat.  But he has not developed a frosh yet a constant and consistent knock many have against Gus. We could say Riley gotten very lucky in the transfer market just like some say Auburn, Chiz and Gus got lucky with Cam and Nick.

[McLoofus 35,182]

17 minutes ago, AU64 said:

And not gonna risk it with a freshman this year either.....JMO he's doing the smart thing as long as he can find good transfer QBs and I don't blame him..  On the other hand, it is disingenuous for people to give him credit for being able to develop a freshman QB when he's never even tried ...and his best prospect bailed out on him this year. 

Look at all the schools doing the transfer bit lately.....Ohio State, LSU, Washington, Wash State, Oklahoma, WVA to mention a few.   Seems there are some pretty good QBs who end up signing where they turn out not to fit well....and some smart coaches are recruiting freshmen each year but also keeping their eyes open for "instant starters" from other schools.  

My thoughts on Gus and the transfer thing in general have evolved. As you say, it's become an accepted way of doing things and who cares as long as they're getting results? Who cares what anybody else is doing if Gus is getting results? 

I think the only way in which it is relevant to Auburn in 2019 and beyond is as a cautionary tale for those who assume that one or more of the kids on our roster is going to succeed, particularly anytime soon. Whether or not it matters, it does remain to be seen if a high school recruit will ever turn into a truly successful college QB on Gus's watch. 

All that is to say... stay cautious with your optimism, y'all. 

[AU64 10,122]

15 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

My thoughts on Gus and the transfer thing in general have evolved. As you say, it's become an accepted way of doing things and who cares as long as they're getting results? Who cares what anybody else is doing if Gus is getting results? 

I think the only way in which it is relevant to Auburn in 2019 and beyond is as a cautionary tale for those who assume that one or more of the kids on our roster is going to succeed, particularly anytime soon. Whether or not it matters, it does remain to be seen if a high school recruit will ever turn into a truly successful college QB on Gus's watch. 

All that is to say... stay cautious with your optimism, y'all. 

agree.....and the advantage of raising your own is the stability factor....like Georgia has enjoyed with Fromm...so I'd love to see Bo or Joey either one look good enough that we could anticipate not having to start over at QB every year or every other year.     Don't know how seriously Gus flirted with transfers this year but we are gonna live or die with two guys who have never fired a shot in combat in my view.   I just don't see MW as our starter.  . 

As for Oklahoma …they have an incoming 5* freshman...but my money is on Hurts to start for them this year and the freshman might RS or just play mop up depending on how good the sooners turn out to be....which is probably gonna be pretty good. 

[AUght2win 6,833]

11 hours ago, GwillMac6 said:

Why would I care if we average 46 points per game in Non conference? The best teams with the best defenses we play year in and year out are in our conference. That is how I measure our success and how good of a team we really are. VS THE BEST competition. We are freaking Auburn a top 12 program all time. I dunno why you are making this so hard. That was my argument from the get go. I never tried once to move the goal posts. From the jump I stated what I cared about was how Chris Todd did in conference play. He was not good at all most of the time and his stats reflect that. We averaged only 25 in the 8 conference games. That is what I care about. For goodness sakes we scored only 14 points vs Kentucky AT HOME. and 7 of that was off a return of a missed field goal. 

Again, it's all about context. 2009 was not a good team. It was not a good roster. But Gus built a good offense that had a potent passing attack to compliment 1300 yards from Ben Tate. If he can do that with THAT level of talent, it's reasonable to think he SHOULD be able to do a lot more with the likes of Bo Nix, Schwartz, Seth Williams, and others. Alas, that's what's so frustrating about it all. Gus SHOULD have been able to air it out last year but he chose not to. He's lost the ability to be an offense architect. 

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,662]

Great writeup but what's the chances they actually adjust a system that much 

[jAUSon 2,836]

14 hours ago, AUght2win said:

Your numbers are wrong. He had 9 TDs in conference play. Also, why the weird barometer? You don't count the 4 TDs against 9-win West Virginia? Arguably Todd's best game.

Keep in mind, this offense was also run-first with Tate at HB, and Tubberville recruited personnel. The point in highlighting '09 is to show that if Malzahn could milk 22 TDs out of Chris Todd and a bare bones receiving corp, what could he do with what we have now? 

see 2018

[McLoofus 35,182]

52 minutes ago, AUght2win said:

Again, it's all about context. 2009 was not a good team. It was not a good roster. But Gus built a good offense that had a potent passing attack to compliment 1300 yards from Ben Tate. If he can do that with THAT level of talent, it's reasonable to think he SHOULD be able to do a lot more with the likes of Bo Nix, Schwartz, Seth Williams, and others. Alas, that's what's so frustrating about it all. Gus SHOULD have been able to air it out last year but he chose not to. He's lost the ability to be an offense architect. 

That 2009 roster wasn't as bad as you make it out to be. No, there wasn't much early-round NFL talent, but Ben Tate would have been Arian Foster if not for injury. At least 3 guys on that offensive line were in their 3rd year starting together, including Ziemba at LT and Pugh at Center. They were both all-conference guys. Mike Berry got a UFA deal. One of the others was Andrew McCain, a senior. Darvin Adams showed that he was as clutch a ball catcher as we've had at Auburn, even if he didn't have the athleticism to play pro ball. TZach did have the athleticism to play pro ball. Mario Fannin was going to have a role with the Broncos but also eventually succumbed to repeat injury. OMac chipped in over 500 yards that season and went pro as a DB. 

Was that offense 2004 good? Nope. But they were plenty talented to put up some numbers against moderate competition, which is what happened. Didn't so much happen against the better defenses.

[Tiger 8,822]

The only reason we consider 2009 to be anything but a "meh" year is because of the train wreck that happened just prior. 2009 seemed so good because we thought 2008 was our floor as a program. Lol but 2012 had something to say about that. A 2009-type season is essentially what Gus has been giving us for the majority of his HC career at AU. Which obviously lands him on a hot seat of sorts.

But 2009 season was not good and that offense was weirdly before Gus' peak but also was foreshadowing what Gus would become. Good against overmatched teams but stuck in quicksand against the teams we actually judge ourselves against.

[McLoofus 35,182]

5 minutes ago, Tiger said:

2009 seemed so good because we thought 2008 was our floor as a program.

That's a really good point. Especially when 2010 happened next. 

What's really interesting to me is how people forget just how horrid Gus's 2011 offense was. It was just as bad as Lefty's was the next year. 

[Tiger 8,822]

Just now, McLoofus said:

That's a really good point. Especially when 2010 happened next. 

What's really interesting to me is how people forget just how horrid Gus's 2011 offense was. It was just as bad as Lefty's was the next year. 

I'm just glad we didn't hurt Trotter and Moseley's feelings by telling Russell Wilson the job would be his. That's what's important here.

[AUght2win 6,833]

56 minutes ago, jAUSon said:

see 2018

See my post pointing out that Malzahn lost his creative brain a long time ago.