the plot thickens............holy cow

[homersapien 11,367]

42 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

Do you believe that statement? We hear from the right that leftist are destroying the country and vice versa. What do you honestly believe? Perhaps I am wrong or sheltered but I believe the vast majority of Americans are good people. Good people lead astray could be destructive I suppose.

Seriously?

We aren't talking about the "vast majority" of America Salty.  We are talking about:

"white supremacists who first began organizing on a nationwide coordinated basis in the early 1980s ... to bring together the disparate strands of the extremist movement: anti-federalists, people opposed to taxes, people opposed to governance above the local level, racists, anti-Semites, xenophobes." ( https://www.vox.com/2021/1/9/22220716/antifa-capitol-storming-far-right-trump-biden-election-stop-the-steal-hawley-cruz )

As far as the quote you are responding to, 70+ million of Americans bought into Trump's lies and authoritarianism as a matter of record. 

Our international reputation and respect is most definitely in decline.  Countries like China and Russia are ecstatic.  We are "legitimizing" authoritarianism by having 40% of our electorate embrace it by embracing Trump.

An of course the "right" keeps saying the "left" - presumably led by Biden is going to "destroy" the country.  That's exactly the sort of unreality the quote was talking about.  Hell, I literally heard exactly that every day in political ads during the Georgia senator election.

 

[homersapien 11,367]

44 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

Unfortunately even good people do horrible things in the name of a cause they believe in and give themselves to. This is what is so dangerous about the polarization in politics that has become so severe. It forces people into camps and we naturally gravitate to one side or the other, and once there it's easy to get lost in the echo chamber of your own opinions. The country won't fail due to people not being good. It will fail due to people that don't have the courage to question their beliefs.

I include both sides with this, by-the-way.

Not sure what you mean by including "both sides" - but presumably you are suggesting the left are claiming the (far) right will destroy America.

I think events of the past week have demonstrated that's a valid concern.

(Please don't suggest rioting instigated by racial justice issues are equivalent to the MAGA political movement. There's a big difference. These MAGAs are promoting fascism - it's just carrying a cross and wrapped in the American flag)

 

[Leftfield 2,595]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

Not sure what you mean by including "both sides" - but presumably you are suggesting the left are claiming the (far) right will destroy America.

I think events of the past week have demonstrated that's a valid concern.

(Please don't suggest rioting instigated by racial justice issues are equivalent to the MAGA political movement. There's a big difference. These MAGAs are promoting fascism - it's just carrying a cross and wrapped in the American flag)

 

My point was that many on both sides lack the courage to challenge their own beliefs. It was not a comment on any current affairs.

[homersapien 11,367]

On 1/10/2021 at 4:32 PM, Leftfield said:

My point was that many of both sides lack the courage to challenge their own beliefs. It was not a comment on any current affairs.

Well, I am about as liberal as they come, and I am constantly challenging the wisdom of many proposed liberal policies.  And I have no problem with admitting liberal policy failures.

 

 

[CoffeeTiger 5,102]

On 1/10/2021 at 2:25 PM, SaltyTiger said:

Do you believe that statement? We hear from the right that leftist are destroying the country and vice versa. What do you honestly believe? Perhaps I am wrong or sheltered but I believe the vast majority of Americans are good people. Good people lead astray could be destructive I suppose.

There are a not insignificant number of Trump supporters who quite literally believe that the Federal government is run by a satanic, organized  pedophilia ring and that Donald Trump has been mandated by God to destroy the deep state pedophiles and deliver America to salvation. 

You may say", ''I don't know anyone who believes that, you're exaggerating''. I wish i was, but I follow a few otherwise regular local people on Facebook that are hook line and sinker into all of this and believe they receive special codes and messages from Trump through his speeches and twitter.

 

A segment of the Republican party is going hardcore conspiracy on a level I just don't see happening on the left, or if it is the Left is a lot better at hiding/suppressing it and not making it mainstream in their party. 

 

[SaltyTiger 7,792]

7 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

There are a not insignificant number of Trump supporters who quite literally believe that the Federal government is run by a satanic, organized  pedophilia ring and that Donald Trump has been mandated by God to destroy the deep state pedophiles and deliver America to salvation. 

You may say", ''I don't know anyone who believes that, you're exaggerating''. I wish i was, but I follow a few otherwise regular local people on Facebook that are hook line and sinker into all of this and believe they receive special codes and messages from Trump through his speeches and twitter.

 

 

 

Messages like “drink more Ovaltine”?

[caleb1633 1,418]

On 1/10/2021 at 3:17 PM, homersapien said:

Not sure what you mean by including "both sides" - but presumably you are suggesting the left are claiming the (far) right will destroy America.

I think events of the past week have demonstrated that's a valid concern.

(Please don't suggest rioting instigated by racial justice issues are equivalent to the MAGA political movement. There's a big difference. These MAGAs are promoting fascism - it's just carrying a cross and wrapped in the American flag)

 

While the siege on the Capitol by the fringe elements on the right certainly overshadows any atrocities committed by the fringe elements of the left, we have to be careful to know that it doesn't diminish the danger posed by the extreme left. They haven't committed an act of insurrection on this scale, but they certainly would like to destroy our democracy and have been committing acts of violence to further such an end. Keep in mind, prior to Jan 6, right wing extremism had mostly been isolated to lone wolf attacks on abortion clinics and the Proud Boys clashing with Antifa during public demonstrations. Prior to 9/11, Islamic extremism was not considered to be THAT big of a threat, but it was still a danger long before 9/11 occurred. One event can change the perception of the threat, but that is a mere confirmation of a reality that had been at play long before that event. To Leftfield's point, we should denounce extremism of any kind at any level. We shouldn't wait till it storms the halls of the Capitol building in a Viking outfit.

[homersapien 11,367]

10 hours ago, caleb1633 said:

While the siege on the Capitol by the fringe elements on the right certainly overshadows any atrocities committed by the fringe elements of the left, we have to be careful to know that it doesn't diminish the danger posed by the extreme left. They haven't committed an act of insurrection on this scale, but they certainly would like to destroy our democracy and have been committing acts of violence to further such an end. Keep in mind, prior to Jan 6, right wing extremism had mostly been isolated to lone wolf attacks on abortion clinics and the Proud Boys clashing with Antifa during public demonstrations. Prior to 9/11, Islamic extremism was not considered to be THAT big of a threat, but it was still a danger long before 9/11 occurred. One event can change the perception of the threat, but that is a mere confirmation of a reality that had been at play long before that event. To Leftfield's point, we should denounce extremism of any kind at any level. We shouldn't wait till it storms the halls of the Capitol building in a Viking outfit.

  Liberty requires constant vigilance - in all directions.

[DKW 86 7,419]

On 1/10/2021 at 2:25 PM, SaltyTiger said:

Do you believe that statement? We hear from the right that leftist are destroying the country and vice versa. What do you honestly believe? Perhaps I am wrong or sheltered but I believe the vast majority of Americans are good people. Good people lead astray could be destructive I suppose.

Careful now. You are messing with some really weak folks' narrative. That cannot be allowed to happen. You are about to receive the harsh condemnation of facepalms and thumbdowns.....

[McLoofus 35,182]

14 hours ago, caleb1633 said:

While the siege on the Capitol by the fringe elements on the right certainly overshadows any atrocities committed by the fringe elements of the left, we have to be careful to know that it doesn't diminish the danger posed by the extreme left. They haven't committed an act of insurrection on this scale, but they certainly would like to destroy our democracy and have been committing acts of violence to further such an end. Keep in mind, prior to Jan 6, right wing extremism had mostly been isolated to lone wolf attacks on abortion clinics and the Proud Boys clashing with Antifa during public demonstrations. Prior to 9/11, Islamic extremism was not considered to be THAT big of a threat, but it was still a danger long before 9/11 occurred. One event can change the perception of the threat, but that is a mere confirmation of a reality that had been at play long before that event. To Leftfield's point, we should denounce extremism of any kind at any level. We shouldn't wait till it storms the halls of the Capitol building in a Viking outfit.

I've long said that the right does a much better job of unifying around a few core concepts, whereas the left tends to be a more loose aggregation of scattershot causes. I don't think that's an original or uncommon perspective. I think we all agree that the right is much better at messaging. Which is why I honestly don't think the left is capable of accomplishing something like what happened last week. That was a *massive* crowd, and they have an *extraordinary* level of support or at least sympathy throughout the country, and all of this is based around a few core concepts- racism, nationalism, and individualism.

I just don't think there are that many people on the left that agree about, well, any one thing except equal rights for all. I'm not saying there aren't just as many loonies on the left with capacity to commit violence and harm on their fellow Americans for a cause. (I don't think there are, and I doubt it's even close. But I have no data to support that.) What I am suggesting is that you'd never see that many on the left gathered around one cause and prepared to unite in violence in that manner. 

Of course, it could just be as simple as the wrong psychopath came along at the wrong time, and he and the economically depressed white people just happened to both pull GOP. Christ, what an unfortunate confluence of circumstances. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

Actually, no. There are way more MAGA terrorists. The left cannot even begin to offer anything equivalent. Look for #WhinyISIS to start trending. 

Quote

WASHINGTON ― Capitol Police briefed Democrats on Monday night about three more potentially gruesome demonstrations planned in the coming days, with one plot to encircle the U.S. Capitol and assassinate Democrats and some Republicans.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/democrats-briefed-plot-overthrow-government_n_5ffd29a4c5b691806c4bf199

[homersapien 11,367]

3 hours ago, McLoofus said:

I've long said that the right does a much better job of unifying around a few core concepts, whereas the left tends to be a more loose aggregation of scattershot causes. I don't think that's an original or uncommon perspective. I think we all agree that the right is much better at messaging. Which is why I honestly don't think the left is capable of accomplishing something like what happened last week. That was a *massive* crowd, and they have an *extraordinary* level of support or at least sympathy throughout the country, and all of this is based around a few core concepts- racism, nationalism, and individualism.

I just don't think there are that many people on the left that agree about, well, any one thing except equal rights for all. I'm not saying there aren't just as many loonies on the left with capacity to commit violence and harm on their fellow Americans for a cause. (I don't think there are, and I doubt it's even close. But I have no data to support that.) What I am suggesting is that you'd never see that many on the left gathered around one cause and prepared to unite in violence in that manner. 

Of course, it could just be as simple as the wrong psychopath came along at the wrong time, and he and the economically depressed white people just happened to both pull GOP. Christ, what an unfortunate confluence of circumstances. 

Right-wing violence will now be a regular feature of American politics

 

Paul Waldman

Columnist

Jan. 12, 2021

The Capitol Hill putsch that took place on Jan. 6 was shocking to just about everyone. But we should now prepare ourselves for something worse. This was not a singular event. We may be entering an era in which the threat of right-wing terrorism and regular outbreaks of violence are a regular feature of our politics.

On Monday, we learned that the FBI has identified plans for pro-Trump protests on and leading up to the day of Joe Biden’s inauguration, not only in D.C. but at all 50 state capitals. Then on Tuesday, HuffPost reported that Capitol Police had briefed members of Congress on multiple potential plots that could once again threaten them:

And another demonstration, which three members said was by far the most concerning plot, would involve insurrectionists forming a perimeter around the Capitol, the White House and the Supreme Court, and then blocking Democrats from entering the Capitol ― perhaps even killing them ― so that Republicans could take control of the government.

We don’t know how developed these plots are; it’s possible that it was just some people talking online about something they wouldn’t actually carry out. But that will not be the end of it.

Once President Trump leaves office and it becomes apparent to even his most ardent supporters that there will be no last-minute intervention to give him a second term, their rage will only increase, as will their hatred for democracy.

In the post-9/11 era, we came to think of terrorism as a threat with a kind of tangible and graspable nature. Al-Qaeda and ISIS were organizations with membership rolls, with cooks and drivers and accountants. With the creation of a comprehensive enough security apparatus, we believed, they could be held at bay and ultimately defeated.

The right-wing domestic terrorism threat, on the other hand, exists on a much more fluid spectrum. There are people who plot specific acts of violence, such as those who wanted to kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer (D). There are those who indulge in violent rhetoric and may commit acts of violence when swept up in a crowd, like many who stormed the Capitol. Then there are those who promote and encourage violence even if they might not commit it themselves. Such as the president and certain members of Congress.

That’s part of what makes this threat so challenging. Law enforcement might be able to break up some cells and stop some attacks before they happen. But the insurrectionist movement overlaps with the Republican Party. And they see what happened last Wednesday not as a horror, but as a triumph.

This will be the face of the opposition to the Biden presidency, an incarnation that will make the tea party look civil and restrained. It is enraged and unhinged, consumed with lunatic conspiracy theories and, most important, utterly opposed to the fundamental precepts of a democratic system, especially the one that says sometimes your side wins and sometimes it loses.

Just as there is a spectrum of opinion within the opposition about what kind of crimes are justified, there will be a spectrum of activities it will engage in over the course of the next few years. There will be peaceful protests — angry and loud, but still peaceful. Then there will be more direct threats that don’t actually devolve into violence, as when right-wing protesters angry about public health measures entered the Michigan Capitol carrying assault-style rifles as a signal of their willingness to kill the officials who were trying to save them from a pandemic.

Then there might be more direct, organized assaults on government buildings at the federal, state and local level. Future elections could be accompanied by violence at polling places and the offices where ballots are counted. We could even see bombings and assassinations.

If I had said that a week ago, you might have thought I was being hyperbolic. But after what we saw at the Capitol, would anyone say it’s impossible?

Because the new opposition is so prominent within their party, Republicans have to find a way to deflect their own responsibility for it. Which is why their response is already following this sequence:

1. Condemn the violence itself
2. Sympathize and justify the sentiments that produced the violence
3. Blame Democrats for everything

Throughout the Trump presidency, the abuser’s trope of victim-blaming (“Look what you made me do”) was a staple of conservative rhetoric, as they sought to blame the left for Trump’s very existence. You were too politically correct, you said stupid things, you hurt our feelings, and “This is how you got Trump.”

So too will they try to put responsibility on Biden and congressional Democrats for the extremists in the GOP ranks. Our side may be full of crackpots, they’ll say, but it’s only because they’re legitimately concerned that passing a public option or increasing taxes on the wealthy would be the death knell of liberty. If only Democrats would promote “unity” by both pretending the Trump presidency never happened and shelving their own agenda, none of this would be happening.

Case in point: On “Fox & Friends,” Brian Kilmeade blamed House Speaker Nancy Pelosi for future violence because she is moving forward with impeachment. “This country is ready to explode,” he said. “You saw what happened. You see the anger that the 74 million people feel.”

The anger is a given; if it turns murderous, that’s the Democrats’ fault.

Here’s the core of what brought us to this point: With the enthusiastic help of his party, Trump spent four years convincing his followers that the American political system is irredeemably corrupt and any election that does not produce the result they want is fraudulent by definition. Once they accepted that belief, Trump’s defeat would inevitably produce violence, as at least some of them conclude that ordinary politics — voting, organizing, lobbying, peaceful protest — will never give them what they want, and violence is the only alternative.

We’ve only begun to feel the consequences. This is going to be a very dark time for our country.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/01/12/right-wing-violence-will-now-be-regular-feature-american-politics/

[McLoofus 35,182]

2 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Right-wing violence will now be a regular feature of American politics

 

Paul Waldman

Columnist

Jan. 12, 2021

 

The Capitol Hill putsch that took place on Jan. 6 was shocking to just about everyone. But we should now prepare ourselves for something worse. This was not a singular event. We may be entering an era in which the threat of right-wing terrorism and regular outbreaks of violence are a regular feature of our politics.

On Monday, we learned that the FBI has identified plans for pro-Trump protests on and leading up to the day of Joe Biden’s inauguration, not only in D.C. but at all 50 state capitals. Then on Tuesday, HuffPost reported that Capitol Police had briefed members of Congress on multiple potential plots that could once again threaten them:

And another demonstration, which three members said was by far the most concerning plot, would involve insurrectionists forming a perimeter around the Capitol, the White House and the Supreme Court, and then blocking Democrats from entering the Capitol ― perhaps even killing them ― so that Republicans could take control of the government.

We don’t know how developed these plots are; it’s possible that it was just some people talking online about something they wouldn’t actually carry out. But that will not be the end of it.

Once President Trump leaves office and it becomes apparent to even his most ardent supporters that there will be no last-minute intervention to give him a second term, their rage will only increase, as will their hatred for democracy.

In the post-9/11 era, we came to think of terrorism as a threat with a kind of tangible and graspable nature. Al-Qaeda and ISIS were organizations with membership rolls, with cooks and drivers and accountants. With the creation of a comprehensive enough security apparatus, we believed, they could be held at bay and ultimately defeated.

The right-wing domestic terrorism threat, on the other hand, exists on a much more fluid spectrum. There are people who plot specific acts of violence, such as those who wanted to kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer (D). There are those who indulge in violent rhetoric and may commit acts of violence when swept up in a crowd, like many who stormed the Capitol. Then there are those who promote and encourage violence even if they might not commit it themselves. Such as the president and certain members of Congress.

That’s part of what makes this threat so challenging. Law enforcement might be able to break up some cells and stop some attacks before they happen. But the insurrectionist movement overlaps with the Republican Party. And they see what happened last Wednesday not as a horror, but as a triumph.

This will be the face of the opposition to the Biden presidency, an incarnation that will make the tea party look civil and restrained. It is enraged and unhinged, consumed with lunatic conspiracy theories and, most important, utterly opposed to the fundamental precepts of a democratic system, especially the one that says sometimes your side wins and sometimes it loses.

Just as there is a spectrum of opinion within the opposition about what kind of crimes are justified, there will be a spectrum of activities it will engage in over the course of the next few years. There will be peaceful protests — angry and loud, but still peaceful. Then there will be more direct threats that don’t actually devolve into violence, as when right-wing protesters angry about public health measures entered the Michigan Capitol carrying assault-style rifles as a signal of their willingness to kill the officials who were trying to save them from a pandemic.

Then there might be more direct, organized assaults on government buildings at the federal, state and local level. Future elections could be accompanied by violence at polling places and the offices where ballots are counted. We could even see bombings and assassinations.

If I had said that a week ago, you might have thought I was being hyperbolic. But after what we saw at the Capitol, would anyone say it’s impossible?

Because the new opposition is so prominent within their party, Republicans have to find a way to deflect their own responsibility for it. Which is why their response is already following this sequence:

1. Condemn the violence itself
2. Sympathize and justify the sentiments that produced the violence
3. Blame Democrats for everything

Throughout the Trump presidency, the abuser’s trope of victim-blaming (“Look what you made me do”) was a staple of conservative rhetoric, as they sought to blame the left for Trump’s very existence. You were too politically correct, you said stupid things, you hurt our feelings, and “This is how you got Trump.”

So too will they try to put responsibility on Biden and congressional Democrats for the extremists in the GOP ranks. Our side may be full of crackpots, they’ll say, but it’s only because they’re legitimately concerned that passing a public option or increasing taxes on the wealthy would be the death knell of liberty. If only Democrats would promote “unity” by both pretending the Trump presidency never happened and shelving their own agenda, none of this would be happening.

Case in point: On “Fox & Friends,” Brian Kilmeade blamed House Speaker Nancy Pelosi for future violence because she is moving forward with impeachment. “This country is ready to explode,” he said. “You saw what happened. You see the anger that the 74 million people feel.”

The anger is a given; if it turns murderous, that’s the Democrats’ fault.

Here’s the core of what brought us to this point: With the enthusiastic help of his party, Trump spent four years convincing his followers that the American political system is irredeemably corrupt and any election that does not produce the result they want is fraudulent by definition. Once they accepted that belief, Trump’s defeat would inevitably produce violence, as at least some of them conclude that ordinary politics — voting, organizing, lobbying, peaceful protest — will never give them what they want, and violence is the only alternative.

We’ve only begun to feel the consequences. This is going to be a very dark time for our country.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/01/12/right-wing-violence-will-now-be-regular-feature-american-politics/

They've got the guns and
They've got the numbers

[AuCivilEng1 11,004]

On 1/8/2021 at 1:09 PM, bigbird said:

Watch them impeach him after he leaves so he can never hold federal office again.  It's fine with me if he never holds an office again, but that's a spitefully and petty way to do it.

It’s spiteful to hold him accountable for his actions? That’s like a guy on his last day before retiring can steal whatever he wants and it’s petty to go after him after he’s retired.

[AuCivilEng1 11,004]

On 1/10/2021 at 3:25 PM, SaltyTiger said:

Do you believe that statement? We hear from the right that leftist are destroying the country and vice versa. What do you honestly believe? Perhaps I am wrong or sheltered but I believe the vast majority of Americans are good people. Good people lead astray could be destructive I suppose.

I used to think that but 70 million people proved to me that they weren’t “good people” in November. If you sat through the last 4 years of this psychopath and said, “give him 4 more years” you’re a bad person who wished bad on this country and it’s citizens.

[wdefromtx 3,159]

On 1/10/2021 at 2:25 PM, SaltyTiger said:

Do you believe that statement? We hear from the right that leftist are destroying the country and vice versa. What do you honestly believe? Perhaps I am wrong or sheltered but I believe the vast majority of Americans are good people. Good people lead astray could be destructive I suppose.

Both sides have their nutjobs  as well folks with blinders that think their party can do no wrong. 

[SaltyTiger 7,792]

2 hours ago, AuCivilEng1 said:

I used to think that but 70 million people proved to me that they weren’t “good people” in November. If you sat through the last 4 years of this psychopath and said, “give him 4 more years” you’re a bad person who wished bad on this country and it’s citizens.

Sad but your choice to live with that attitude. Said before, not everyone that voted Trump is a gun toting, bumbling idiot.

[AuCivilEng1 11,004]

6 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

Sad but your choice to live with that attitude. Said before, not everyone that voted Trump is a gun toting, bumbling idiot.

I would have accepted your argument the first time they voted for him, but they have had plenty of material to judge him by in the last 4 years and they chose him again. I never said they were all bumbling idiots who tote guns. But you can’t possibly be a good person and actively choose to allow this maniac to be the leader of our country. 

[SaltyTiger 7,792]

2 minutes ago, AuCivilEng1 said:

But you can’t possibly be a good person and actively choose to allow this maniac to be the leader of our country. 

Choose the attitude you wish

[jj3jordan 2,051]

1 hour ago, AuCivilEng1 said:

I would have accepted your argument the first time they voted for him, but they have had plenty of material to judge him by in the last 4 years and they chose him again. I never said they were all bumbling idiots who tote guns. But you can’t possibly be a good person and actively choose to allow this maniac to be the leader of our country. 

So you are the judge of all mankind?   

[wdefromtx 3,159]

1 hour ago, SaltyTiger said:

Choose the attitude you wish

Concise and to the point!! 👍

[Grumps 3,704]

41 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

So you are the judge of all mankind?   

That seems to be one of the main attributes of liberals. They know your actions and the motivations of your actions. We don't get it because we are bad people.

[Leftfield 2,595]

3 hours ago, AuCivilEng1 said:

But you can’t possibly be a good person and actively choose to allow this maniac to be the leader of our country. 

Going way to far with this. Lord knows I don't understand it, but I know plenty of good people that voted for him. Most of the people I know were voting against Biden and not for Trump, but there are still good people that like him. Not all of them are the crazies you saw, they are just people that have lived different lives, are in different circumstances and have different influences than you. I'm not saying you have to like them, but if the majority of people choose your path and completely dismiss them then how are we as a society ever supposed to have a discussion? How do we ever understand each other, help each other, and grow together?

You may not realize it, but taking the attitude that all on the other side are evil is exactly what led many of those rioters to become who they are.

[Grumps 3,704]

1 hour ago, Leftfield said:

Going way to far with this. Lord knows I don't understand it, but I know plenty of good people that voted for him. Most of the people I know were voting against Biden and not for Trump, but there are still good people that like him. Not all of them are the crazies you saw, they are just people that have lived different lives, are in different circumstances and have different influences than you. I'm not saying you have to like them, but if the majority of people choose your path and completely dismiss them then how are we as a society ever supposed to have a discussion? How do we ever understand each other, help each other, and grow together?

You may not realize it, but taking the attitude that all on the other side are evil is exactly what led many of those rioters to become who they are.

Thank you! Maybe people here will understand it of you say it.

[McLoofus 35,182]

11 hours ago, Leftfield said:

You may not realize it, but taking the attitude that all on the other side are evil is exactly what led many of those rioters to become who they are.

While I agree with most of the post, this line is wrong and I truly hate that sensible people have been running with it. While expressions of that attitude are problematic and might galvanize opposing attitudes, it is not what led those people to become who they are. 

The Left can be accused of mishandling the problem. The Left cannot justifiably be accused of creating it. People need to stop saying this. 

EDIT: Please see Left's clarification below. I misunderstood this.