the plot thickens............holy cow

[Leftfield 2,617]

43 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

While I agree with most of the post, this line is wrong and I truly hate that sensible people have been running with it. While expressions of that attitude are problematic and might galvanize opposing attitudes, it is not what led those people to become who they are. 

The Left can be accused of mishandling the problem. The Left cannot justifiably be accused of creating it. People need to stop saying this. 

 

You misunderstand. Or perhaps I worded it poorly. I am not saying some of the rioters are that way because they feel everyone on the left sees them as evil. I am saying they see everyone on the left as evil, so they shut themselves down to any differing viewpoint and have become so polarized that it is absolutely imperative to them to do anything necessary to keep their side in power.

I am not in any way excusing their actions. My point is that when you begin to see the opposing side as having no redeeming qualities, it can lead you to a very dangerous place. And when enough people have that view, it can lead all of us to a very dangerous place.

 

[McLoofus 35,182]

9 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

You misunderstand. Or perhaps I worded it poorly. I am not saying some of the rioters are that way because they feel everyone on the left sees them as evil. I am saying they see everyone on the left as evil, so they shut themselves down to any differing viewpoint and have become so polarized that it is absolutely imperative to them to do anything necessary to keep their side in power.

I am not in any way excusing their actions. My point is that when you begin to see the opposing side as having no redeeming qualities, it can lead you to a very dangerous place. And when enough people have that view, it can lead all of us to a very dangerous place.

 

GOTCHA. Okay, tracking now. Thank you for that clarification and yes, good point. I added a note to my prior response to see this clarification.

I have seen a lot of blame thrown at Dems for the MAGA set becoming what they have. Not "it's ALL your fault", but certainly more responsibility than I believe Dems actually bear. No, I'm not going to apologize for condescending to the Eff Your Feelings/Snowflake/Cry More Lib people. I'm not going to entertain a chicken and egg debate about that. 

I only say all that to explain where I was coming from with my prior response. I'm guessing I didn't have to but just in case.  

[Leftfield 2,617]

3 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

GOTCHA. Okay, tracking now. Thank you for that clarification and yes, good point. I added a note to my prior response to see this clarification.

I have seen a lot of blame thrown at Dems for the MAGA set becoming what they have. Not "it's ALL your fault", but certainly more responsibility than I believe Dems actually bear. No, I'm not going to apologize for condescending to the Eff Your Feelings/Snowflake/Cry More Lib people. I'm not going to entertain a chicken and egg debate about that. 

I only say all that to explain where I was coming from with my prior response. I'm guessing I didn't have to but just in case.  

Nope, I understand where you're coming from, and agree no excuses need to be made for the rioters' actions. The hardcore supporters need to feel the pain they've earned.

In terms of the more moderate supporters, the attitude that they are not good people will do nothing positive for either side. 

[AuCivilEng1 11,012]

14 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

So you are the judge of all mankind?   

Nah. I’m giving my opinion of course.

[AuCivilEng1 11,012]

13 hours ago, Leftfield said:

Going way to far with this. Lord knows I don't understand it, but I know plenty of good people that voted for him. Most of the people I know were voting against Biden and not for Trump, but there are still good people that like him. Not all of them are the crazies you saw, they are just people that have lived different lives, are in different circumstances and have different influences than you. I'm not saying you have to like them, but if the majority of people choose your path and completely dismiss them then how are we as a society ever supposed to have a discussion? How do we ever understand each other, help each other, and grow together?

You may not realize it, but taking the attitude that all on the other side are evil is exactly what led many of those rioters to become who they are.

It’s not just a path anymore. Like I said, I believed that a lot of good people voted for him and against Clinton in 2016. But Donald Trump has shown his a** for the last 4 years and the people that actively voted to keep American in this situation don’t give a sh*t about America or it’s citizens. I understand that not all Trump supporters are the crazies we saw. But it doesn’t make you a good person because you didn’t make the trip to storm the capital. They may have good qualities (good father or mother, active in their church, etc), but to vote into office a psychopathic narcissist for the 2nd time, you have to have some major personal flaws or not give a sh*t about the well-being  of the people around you. This is all my opinion btw. And it won’t be changed. You guys are completely free to yours.

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 hour ago, AuCivilEng1 said:

you have to have some major personal flaws

Congrats if you don't.

[homersapien 11,393]

21 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

Sad but your choice to live with that attitude. Said before, not everyone that voted Trump is a gun toting, bumbling idiot.

 

I have frequently pointed out that Trump is a narcissist, a pathological liar, a con man, a racist and a serial failure at business.  He cares only about himself. He's ignorant and totally unfit for office (didn't even know what the nuclear defense triad was ). 

All of this information was available prior to 2016. 

But to any thinking person who might have been unfamiliar with his history, it should have become obvious before the 2020 election.

I can only conclude - as a matter of simple logic - that anyone who voted for him a second time clearly has serious intellectual (cognitive) or psychological issues, gun owner or not.  (Voting drunk is no excuse .)

People who still defend him are clearly part of the problem.

Whether or not these people should be called "bad" is a subjective rhetorical matter.  But it seems obvious to me that such people certainly have a bad effect on the country's future.

 

[SaltyTiger 7,816]

3 minutes ago, homersapien said:

I can only conclude - as a matter of simple logic - that anyone who voted for him a second time clearly have serious intellectual (cognitive) or psychological issues, gun owner or not.  

Conclude whatever you wish

[homersapien 11,393]

1 minute ago, SaltyTiger said:

Conclude whatever you wish

It's not what I "wish" it's based on verifiable facts and logic.

It's the Trump supporters who base their conclusions on "wishes".

[SaltyTiger 7,816]

32 minutes ago, homersapien said:

it's based on verifiable facts and logic.

 

46 minutes ago, homersapien said:

anyone who voted for him a second time clearly has serious intellectual (cognitive) or psychological issues

Yet you will in all likely hood soon drive over bridge designed by a Trump supporting engineer

[homersapien 11,393]

4 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

 

Yet you will in all likely hood soon drive over bridge designed by a Trump supporting engineer

I hope not. 

But if I do, I can only hope that engineer's issues reside more in the psychological category instead of the cognitive.

But thanks for staying on topic

 

[McLoofus 35,182]

Lol at thinking that being an engineer precludes having serious cognitive issues. 

If I had a nickel for every Ga Tech kid I met who could barely function in normal society, well, I still wouldn't have nearly as much money as they make after graduation. 

[SaltyTiger 7,816]

11 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Lol at thinking that being an engineer precludes having serious cognitive issues. 

Actually inferring the opposite possibility....per Brother Home

Lurking on the periphery again?

 

[homersapien 11,393]

1 hour ago, SaltyTiger said:

Actually inferring the opposite possibility....per Brother Home

Lurking on the periphery again?

 

Are you suggesting we can't respond to any post we care to?

[CoffeeTiger 5,135]

Now, I have a bit of a different view. I wouldn't say that people who voted for Trump twice are bad people, wish harm on America or have learning disorders because that is way too wide of a net for me to cross and I do personally know current Trump supports that I do view as good, capable adults,

BUT....

I will say that i believe many current Trump supporters are very easily influenced by propaganda and  have a  lack of ability to properly analyze new or incoming information and determining if it is true or trustworthy. IF I was a scammer or running a pyramid scheme I would specifically target hardcore Trump supporters simply because they have shown that if you can plant an idea that they like into their heads then they are much more likely to ignore other 'red flags' or not question unbelievable sounding claims or facts. Kind of like those scam victims in documentaries who are like "I knew 1000% profits per month sounded too good to be true and I was warned not to invest by my family...but gosh darn it that scammer was just so convincing, and nice, and when he showed me all these numbers...well, i didn't understand it really, but he made it all make sense at that time and I decided to trust him" 

 

That's kind of what I see from a lot of the Trump supporters I know. They do truly believe that Trump is an honest, intelligent, trustworthy, successful businessman who would personally take a bullet for them and do anything in his power to strengthen America. They believe that because that's how Trump has portrayed himself to them and they like that, and they like that he's on THEIR political side, and anyone who questions those qualities about trump are liars and are trying to tear him down because the left HATES that Trump is so successful and Amazing. They can't believe any negative news about him (FAKE NEWS), Fact checkers and accusations of lies against Trump are all done by liberals and cant be trusted (anything that Trump says that obviously ends up being untrue is easily explained away by Democrats not allowing him to accomplish or do that thing). Universities and scientists are all trained liberal propaganda centers so you can't trust anything they say. Even Trumps own government is "DEEPSTATE" so you can't trust them if they say anything that paints Trump negatively. 

 

They believe this because conservative media feeds them these ideas and 'facts' on a daily, repeating basis. Conservative media is the last bastion in the world that isn't controlled by the Democrats and so, to their minds, believing anything that those elements say is believing Democrat propaganda ...its pure Communisim... 

Some liberals absolutely fall into this problem too but not near the same level or consistency. It's why conservative media like all the radio shows and Fox News dominate the airwaves and many liberal leaning outlets are more fringe and don't get the same viewership because liberals have a larger variety of viewpoints and sources that they trust to get their information from. They are also more prone to getting actual news and independent journalism, where as Conservative media is more often sensationalized and almost tabloid like (i.e. FoxNews.com is large exaggerated headlines all over the place, celebrity and gossip news is always a lot more prevalent on the front page and conservative editorials tend to be shorter, with less sourcing/references and written in a easier to understand and digest way. 

[SaltyTiger 7,816]

Just now, homersapien said:

Are you suggesting we can't respond to any post we care to?

No

[homersapien 11,393]

1 hour ago, McLoofus said:

Lol at thinking that being an engineer precludes having serious cognitive issues. 

If I had a nickel for every Ga Tech kid I met who could barely function in normal society, well, I still wouldn't have nearly as much money as they make after graduation. 

Yeah I know. 

I've got lots of stories I could tell on that.  I've been pretty brutal discussing the profession in the past.  The good ones are great (one of my favorite bosses), but a lot of them.....

1 hour ago, SaltyTiger said:

Actually inferring the opposite possibility....per Brother Home

Lurking on the periphery again?

 

 

[homersapien 11,393]

18 hours ago, Grumps said:

That seems to be one of the main attributes of liberals. They know your actions and the motivations of your actions. We don't get it because we are bad people.

Well what's your (valid)motivation for supporting Trump?

 

[Grumps 3,704]

6 hours ago, homersapien said:

Well what's your (valid)motivation for supporting Trump?

 

I don't support Trump. I just don't think telling a lie about him just because he is an ahole makes it true.

[AUFAN78 3,911]

On 1/12/2021 at 8:57 PM, Leftfield said:

Going way to far with this. Lord knows I don't understand it, but I know plenty of good people that voted for him. Most of the people I know were voting against Biden and not for Trump, but there are still good people that like him. Not all of them are the crazies you saw, they are just people that have lived different lives, are in different circumstances and have different influences than you. I'm not saying you have to like them, but if the majority of people choose your path and completely dismiss them then how are we as a society ever supposed to have a discussion? How do we ever understand each other, help each other, and grow together?

You may not realize it, but taking the attitude that all on the other side are evil is exactly what led many of those rioters to become who they are.

Best post of the week. Don't think it will click with half the forum, but thank you anyway. Very well done!

[AUFAN78 3,911]

11 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

Conclude whatever you wish

It was simple alright minus the logic. In some ways homey reminds one of Trump. 

[AUFAN78 3,911]

15 hours ago, McLoofus said:

The Left cannot justifiably be accused of creating it.

Not solely, but partially. I can show you. Not sure you would grasp it.

[AUFAN78 3,911]

2 hours ago, Grumps said:

I don't support Trump. I just don't think telling a lie about him just because he is an ahole makes it true.

I supported Trump for the same reason I'll support Biden. This is America. He is my president.

Great 2nd point. 

[DKW 86 7,431]

On 1/10/2021 at 2:25 PM, SaltyTiger said:

Do you believe that statement? We hear from the right that leftist are destroying the country and vice versa. What do you honestly believe? Perhaps I am wrong or sheltered but I believe the vast majority of Americans are good people. Good people lead astray could be destructive I suppose.

That doesnt fit the narrative, time for you to burn in Hell....

On 1/10/2021 at 3:37 PM, homersapien said:

Well, I am about as liberal as they come, and I am constantly challenging the wisdom of many proposed liberal policies.  And I have no problem with admitting liberal policy failures.

   

On 1/12/2021 at 6:46 PM, jj3jordan said:

So you are the judge of all mankind?   

Yes. They are indeed the judge of all mankind. All of us that do not agree with them  100% (obviously to them, we are all Nazis), need to be placed in Re-Education camps. <Warning: The intense use of irony here is not detectable by those that want to place the people they call Nazis in Re-Education Camps just like the REAL NAZIS would do. >

On 1/12/2021 at 7:31 PM, Grumps said:

That seems to be one of the main attributes of liberals. They know your actions and the motivations of your actions. 

Post of the Day. Mind-reading is a self-ascribed attribute of ALL Pseudo-Liberals.

On 1/12/2021 at 8:57 PM, Leftfield said:

Going way to far with this. Lord knows I don't understand it, but I know plenty of good people that voted for him. Most of the people I know were voting against Biden and not for Trump, but there are still good people that like him. Not all of them are the crazies you saw, they are just people that have lived different lives, are in different circumstances and have different influences than you. I'm not saying you have to like them, but if the majority of people choose your path and completely dismiss them then how are we as a society ever supposed to have a discussion? How do we ever understand each other, help each other, and grow together?

You may not realize it, but taking the attitude that all on the other side are evil is exactly what led many of those rioters to become who they are.

Bro, you are messing with the narrative, be prepared for open assault on your intentions, because to them, you are now Evile...and as was said above: THEY THINK THEY CAN INTUITIVELY DIVINE YOUR INTENTIONS, EVEN WHEN THEY CANT... 

19 hours ago, homersapien said:

It's not what I "wish" it's based on verifiable facts and logic.

It's the Trump supporters who base their conclusions on "wishes".

8 hours ago, AUFAN78 said:

I supported Trump for the same reason I'll support Biden. This is America. He is my president.

Great 2nd point. 

Applause.

[CleCoTiger 1,957]

On 1/13/2021 at 8:18 AM, Leftfield said:

You misunderstand. Or perhaps I worded it poorly. I am not saying some of the rioters are that way because they feel everyone on the left sees them as evil. I am saying they see everyone on the left as evil, so they shut themselves down to any differing viewpoint and have become so polarized that it is absolutely imperative to them to do anything necessary to keep their side in power.

I am not in any way excusing their actions. My point is that when you begin to see the opposing side as having no redeeming qualities, it can lead you to a very dangerous place. And when enough people have that view, it can lead all of us to a very dangerous place.

 

You make a good point. The rhetoric from the radical Republican right has over the years become the rhetoric of the Republican mainstream (extremist) base. They don't talk about Democrats as their honorable opponents of differing opinion. They talk about Democrats as actually evil and enemies of America. They talk as if they are at war. And that talk influences attitudes and behavior. It's essentially fascism.