Why Impeach Trump now?

[AUDub 11,147]

25 minutes ago, GoAU said:

Sticks and stones and all that....   Because I don’t agree with you- LOL.

What a bad little liberal you are, not very inclusive.  Then again, libs are only inclusive of those that agree with them, right?

Mr. "People like you that want to pervert the Constitution" suddenly getting hung up on name calling.

Quote

What specifically did he say that would constitute. “High crime pr misdemeanor”.  A quote or some specific evidence would be nice.  

It wouldn't pass Brandenburg, but, again, we're not talking about an indictable crime here. 

Personally, yes, I believe he incited violence, and its really a pretty easy argument to make if you read his speech carefully. Getting a bunch of people that believe conspiracy theories like QAnon all worked up and telling them to march to the capitol building? Yes, it is obvious what will happen in that scenario.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/1/11/full-transcript-donald-trump-january-6-incendiary-speech

[GoAU 1,600]

Just now, Brad_ATX said:

I think that all of this stuff that has been spewed out has been proven false.  Your example of the "containers placed under a tablecloth" was directly addressed on 60 minutes last night by the Republican Georgia officials on charge of the election.  I encourage you to watch it.

 

I’ll take a look.  I’m interested in hearing all sides of this.  
 

I do think the voting by mail is a huge problem though. Nowhere near enough controls or verification in place.  

[GoAU 1,600]

3 minutes ago, AUDub said:

Mr. "People like you that want to pervert the Constitution" suddenly getting hung up on name calling.

It wouldn't pass Brandenburg, but, again, we're not talking about an indictable crime here. 

Personally, yes, I believe he incited violence, and its really a pretty easy argument to make if you read his speech carefully. Getting a bunch of people that believe conspiracy theories like QAnon all worked up and telling them to march to the capitol building? Yes, it is obvious what will happen in that scenario.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/1/11/full-transcript-donald-trump-january-6-incendiary-speech

No offense, but I’m not clicking on any link to Al Jazeera......

And, i have seen not a single quote from Trump about the March in DC that, when taken in context, incited any violence or storming of the Capital.  Those idiots deserve to be held accountable for their own actions.  

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

6 minutes ago, GoAU said:

I’ll take a look.  I’m interested in hearing all sides of this.  
 

I do think the voting by mail is a huge problem though. Nowhere near enough controls or verification in place.  

Except there are.  In GA alone, every vote, even mail in ballots, are signature matched.  Other claims, like dead people voting in droves, are also just straight BS.  Those same GA Republican Secretary of State officials said last night on 60 Minutes that there were two (2) instances of a dead person voting this year in the state.  Note that GA had over 4.8M votes cast.

And in PA, the election rules that were played by were set forth by a Republican state legislature as passed in 2019.  It wasn't until after the election that Republicans all of a sudden had problems with the laws that they passed.

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19 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

I know, and I’m not sure enough R’s will break away from the pack to get the count. 

I have a feeling the decision is going to be made for them. $$$$$$$$

Republicans face growing corporate backlash after Capitol assault

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-corporate-idUKKBN29G1WH?taid=5ffd07634156da0001be1f8d&utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

[GoAU 1,600]

Legit question - what is the process used in signature verification?   I’m curious as to how this process works and is secure.  

[AUFAN78 3,894]

6 minutes ago, AUDub said:

Mr. "People like you that want to pervert the Constitution" suddenly getting hung up on name calling.

It wouldn't pass Brandenburg, but, again, we're not talking about an indictable crime here. 

Personally, yes, I believe he incited violence, and its really a pretty easy argument to make if you read his speech carefully. Getting a bunch of people that believe conspiracy theories like QAnon all worked up and telling them to march to the capitol building? Yes, it is obvious what will happen in that scenario.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/1/11/full-transcript-donald-trump-january-6-incendiary-speech

Yeah in typical Trump fashion, that speech was a mess. But at least consider this. Those that breached the capitol had ill intent on their mind prior to his speech. This speech anyway. They didn't hear the speech and run to ACE Hardware and purchase ninja clothing and zip ties. I believe they came with ill intent regardless of his speech. 

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9 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

Except there are.  In GA alone, every vote, even mail in ballots, are signature matched.  Other claims, like dead people voting in droves, are also just straight BS.  Those same GA Republican Secretary of State officials said last night on 60 Minutes that there were two (2) instances of a dead person voting this year in the state.  Note that GA had over 4.8M votes cast.

And in PA, the election rules that were played by were set forth by a Republican state legislature as passed in 2019.  It wasn't until after the election that Republicans all of a sudden had problems with the laws that they passed.

Colorado has been voting by mail exclusively since 2013.

[GoAU 1,600]

Just now, AUFAN78 said:

Yeah in typical Trump fashion, that speech was a mess. But at least consider this. Those that breached the capitol had ill intent on their mind prior to his speech. This speech anyway. They didn't hear the speech and run to ACE Hardware and purchase ninja clothing and zip ties. I believe they came with ill intent regardless of his speech. 

I’m curious as to when you acquired your mind reading skills?  
 

And, if the people that stormed the Capital came with ill intent on their minds, BEFORE the spearhead, then by your own admission he didn’t invite them to do anything.  

[GoAU 1,600]

1 minute ago, AUUSN said:

Colorado has been voting by mail exclusively since 2013.

And?   

[AUDub 11,147]

14 minutes ago, GoAU said:

No offense, but I’m not clicking on any link to Al Jazeera......

Damn shame. They're one of the few outlets out there that doesnt inject a bunch of editorial BS into their reporting. 

14 minutes ago, GoAU said:

And, i have seen not a single quote from Trump about the March in DC that, when taken in context, incited any violence or storming of the Capital.  Those idiots deserve to be held accountable for their own actions.  

Even if we assume for the sake of argument that it doesn't rise to a criminal definition of incitement the impeachment process doesn't require an actual law broken. If the effect of Trump's speech is that Congress is sacked, people died, and his mob attempted to kill lawmakers including his own vice president then Congress could, and should, vote to impeach and convict.

They constructed a gallows and chanted "hang Mike Pence." They tore through the halls of Congress and killed a cop. Trump timed his speech to end and the crowd to arrive as Pence certified the election and they ended the first vote. Trump lied and said he'd march with them. He said they'd cheer some votes and not cheer so much or others. He gave them the idea that they could go into the building to do this and they did it. I don't need to get into hypotheticals. If the end result of your speech and coordination efforts for your rally is that a few thousand people kill a cop and try to hang the vice president then as president you ****** around and you should find out.

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1 minute ago, GoAU said:

And?   

And...

It’s established, it’s survived court challenges and it’s a more inclusive method of voting.

[AUFAN78 3,894]

2 minutes ago, GoAU said:

I’m curious as to when you acquired your mind reading skills?  
 

And, if the people that stormed the Capital came with ill intent on their minds, BEFORE the spearhead, then by your own admission he didn’t invite them to do anything.  

I try and apply some common sense. At least what I perceive as common sense.

As stated, I believe they would have breached the capitol if he hadn't given a speech. I think the argument could be made his rhetoric in the weeks prior could have incited them. 

[AUDub 11,147]

7 minutes ago, AUFAN78 said:

Yeah in typical Trump fashion, that speech was a mess. But at least consider this. Those that breached the capitol had ill intent on their mind prior to his speech. This speech anyway. They didn't hear the speech and run to ACE Hardware and purchase ninja clothing and zip ties. I believe they came with ill intent regardless of his speech. 

And we actually knew that. Do you think people in the know weren't aware of the trouble brewing given the online presence of many in that crowd?

Trump could have put a stop to this. He chose not to because we don't love him enough. 

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

7 minutes ago, GoAU said:

Legit question - what is the process used in signature verification?   I’m curious as to how this process works and is secure.  

https://www.ajc.com/politics/how-georgia-verifies-signatures-on-absentee-ballots/JCF7E2HMGNGG5M3Z4D3SRAXUZM/

[AUFAN78 3,894]

2 minutes ago, AUDub said:

And we actually knew that. Do you think people in the know weren't aware of the trouble brewing given the online presence of many in that crowd?

Trump could have put a stop to this. He chose not to because we don't love him enough. 

If Trump knew the protestors were going to breach the capitol then he should not be impeached but hung in public. 

[AUUSN 823]

7 minutes ago, AUFAN78 said:

I try and apply some common sense. At least what I perceive as common sense.

As stated, I believe they would have breached the capitol if he hadn't given a speech. I think the argument could be made his rhetoric in the weeks prior could have incited them. 

Yep, he just gave the locker room speech before they took the field. 

[TexasTiger 12,848]

22 minutes ago, AUFAN78 said:

I try and apply some common sense. At least what I perceive as common sense.

As stated, I believe they would have breached the capitol if he hadn't given a speech. I think the argument could be made his rhetoric in the weeks prior could have incited them. 

It did. It drew them there. They felt they were answering his call. I’ve heard many say it. But it pushed them and fired them up even more. Rudy and Mo Brooks, too.

[GoAU 1,600]

14 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

https://www.ajc.com/politics/how-georgia-verifies-signatures-on-absentee-ballots/JCF7E2HMGNGG5M3Z4D3SRAXUZM/

Interesting read - thanks.  I will counter that 2 additional people to confirm before a vote is rejeceted, but no additional looks or method of verification is required to accept?  Less than a .15% reject rate seems pretty low - either very little fraud, or very low scrutiny.  
 

But, if it’s that secure maybe we can use the same system to allow firearms purchases by mail or stead of using FFLs?

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

7 minutes ago, GoAU said:

Interesting read - thanks.  I will counter that 2 additional people to confirm before a vote is rejeceted, but no additional looks or method of verification is required to accept?  Less than a .15% reject rate seems pretty low - either very little fraud, or very low scrutiny.  
 

But, if it’s that secure maybe we can use the same system to allow firearms purchases by mail or stead of using FFLs?

It's very little fraud.  Like, a miniscule amount.  Remember, these "anti fraud" measures for mail in ballots in Georgia weren't enacted by Democrats.  Republicans wrote the laws that are being enforced.

[GoAU 1,600]

4 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

It's very little fraud.  Like, a miniscule amount.  Remember, these "anti fraud" measures for mail in ballots in Georgia weren't enacted by Democrats.  Republicans wrote the laws that are being enforced.

I’m not concerned who wrote the laws - Republicans, just like Democrats, have written bad laws before - and will do it again.  IMO, in person voting, except in true absentee cases should be the norm.  

[AUDub 11,147]

4 minutes ago, GoAU said:

I’m not concerned who wrote the laws - Republicans, just like Democrats, have written bad laws before - and will do it again.  IMO, in person voting, except in true absentee cases should be the norm.  

I could sort of live with that if we made sure election say was a national holiday.

And we weren't, you know, in the midst of a pandemic.

Edit: also contingent upon making sure we have the necessary amount of polling places and free transport as needed.

When you get right down to it, mail in voting is better. 

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

11 minutes ago, GoAU said:

I’m not concerned who wrote the laws - Republicans, just like Democrats, have written bad laws before - and will do it again.  IMO, in person voting, except in true absentee cases should be the norm.  

Well it matters in this case who wrote the laws because the ones complaining about them are the same folks who wrote them.  And the complaints only started when they lost an election.

As for in person voting being the norm, there are enough states that do predominantly mail in voting and have been doing it for years.  There's no evidence of widespread fraud in any of those places, many of which havile been doing mostly mail-in for a long time.  Washington, Arizona, and Colorado all immediately come to mind.

At some point, if you want to tell me why we shouldn't do something, you need to show me the proof of why what you're advocating against doesn't work.  Hypotheticals aren't OK here.  We have many elections to choose from and pull data.  And the overwhelming evidence shows that mail-in voting:

1) Increases turnout, meaning more people participate in the democratic process, and

2) Is a safe and secure way of voting.

[homersapien 11,370]

On 1/11/2021 at 8:00 PM, wdefromtx said:

Show me where he explicitly told folks to riot. I’ll hang up and wait.......

Trump is an expert at dog whistle language.  He doesn't do "explicit" because he doesn't have to, and he knows it would cause him direct problems. 

(Paraphrasing from memory):

"I don't know, maybe we'll have to apply 2nd amendment solutions"

"Stand back and stand by"

A constant refrain the election was "stolen" from him - "total fraud".  (And keep in mind many of his supporters actually believe Qanon.)

"Come to Washington on Nov. 6 - it will be wild!"

Good people on both sides....

Promoting violence at his rallies

........... etc., etc., etc.

This has been going on for 4 years!  That's the context of anything he says to his Qanon supporters.

But you just keep defending him.  He "loves" you.

 

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/qanon-trump-timeline-conspiracy-theorists-1076279/

A Timeline of Trump’s QAnon Presidency

How President Trump spent four years in office pandering to conspiracy theorists

 

[homersapien 11,370]

6 hours ago, GoAU said:

Sticks and stones and all that....   Because I don’t agree with you- LOL.   What a bad little liberal you are, not very inclusive.  Then again, libs are only inclusive of those that agree with them, right?  

 

What specifically did he say that would constitute. “High crime pr misdemeanor”.  A quote or some specific evidence would be nice.  

Yeah, fomenting a mob to commit sedition and trash the capitol while in session, threaten lawmakers and murder an LEO just doesn't qualify, huh? 

Damn