GOP's midterm losses were 100% Trump's fault. What say you?

[homersapien 11,371]

58 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

.... No one has a clue, and researchers are too often shut down by cancel culture for even raising the questions.

Yes, it is an opinion piece from a person that has lived it.  You will not be impressed I’m sure.  He has been banned from twitter for spreading hate.  It is very difficult to get through the filters the LBGTQ coalition has put up.

 

Sorry, but that's just 

[I_M4_AU 7,810]

10 hours ago, homersapien said:

Operative phrase:   "48-year-old"  

Now, show me a case involving "K-3".   (That's not from 'Libs of Tic Tok'.) 

Where are your critical thinking skills?  Here is a 42 year old (at the time of transition) that was convinced  surgically becoming a male would be great.  He then goes into what was not brought up to him and the troubles he has had and is still having.  If a 42 year old can be duped; how easy is it to dupe a teenager?

K-3 are not getting surgery or even puberty blockers, the teachers are planting the seed that should not even be discussed at that age (groomed), if it were to be discussed it should be by the parents.

By discussing this at the K-3 level there is more of a chance this becomes a social construct rather than kids truly having gender dysphoria.

[I_M4_AU 7,810]

11 hours ago, homersapien said:

Sorry, but that's just 

Here is a NYT article discussing the harm puberty blockers may have on trans patients:

But as an increasing number of adolescents identify as transgender — in the United States, an estimated 300,000 ages 13 to 17 and an untold number who are younger — concerns are growing among some medical professionals about the consequences of the drugs, a New York Times examination found. The questions are fueling government reviews in Europe, prompting a push for more research and leading some prominent specialists to reconsider at what age to prescribe them and for how long. A small number of doctors won’t recommend them at all.

Dutch doctors first offered puberty blockers to transgender adolescents three decades ago, typically following up with hormone treatment to help patients transition. Since then, the practice has spread to other countries, with varying protocols, little documentation of outcomes and no government approval of the drugs for that use, including by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration.

But there is emerging evidence of potential harm from using blockers, according to reviews of scientific papers and interviews with more than 50 doctors and academic experts around the world.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/14/health/puberty-blockers-transgender.html

In other words we have been experimenting with these drugs on our youth.  For what purpose?

This article would have never been written in the NYT even a year ago, but you could find the harm of puberty blockers in articles in the *right wing media* years ago.  Why would the NYT just now admit puberty blockers may have consequences?  What other facts have the LGBTQ coalition hidden in their narrative?  Yes, homer, cancel culture is real.

[Leftfield 2,596]

On 11/17/2022 at 9:23 AM, I_M4_AU said:

I don’t think she said she didn’t notice, I believe she has a problem with the decision for her daughter to be trans without her knowledge initially.  After the teachers and people of authority have made their case to her daughter it is much harder for the parent to change the child’s mind.  If she had been notified earlier she could have had more control in her daughter’s choice.

There are very few children at that age that are not influenced by outside factors more than their parents. Kids are experts at subterfuge, if there is not an opposing voice, the child is ingrained is the beliefs of others.

The highlighted areas betray how you really feel about this subject. You state this was a decision/choice made by the son, and that the mother should have been able to assert some measure of control over it. You don't see it as the son's self-identity coming to the fore, and the mother offering guidance as to how to handle it. 

I do feel that teachers or other confidants should strongly encourage children to inform their parents, but in many cases there are very legitimate reasons for not doing so. I will give you an example: just this week, I kid you not, a 12-year-old boy in our neighborhood ran over to our friends' house. He had come out as trans to his parents and his father had threatened to kill him (I don't know if the boy had spoken directly to any teachers about being trans, but I do know at least some students have been aware for a while). Our friends sheltered that child and called the police while the parents were banging on their door. After a few hours of conversation, the police returned the child to the parents, and we were all terrified of what might happen. Fortunately, it appears cooler heads have prevailed, as the situation at home, while understandably still intense, no longer seems to be imminently dangerous, but what could have happened if that child had not made it out of the house, and our friends never called the police?  

I also agree that puberty blockers and especially surgery should require extensive evaluations by medical and psychological professionals, as well as parent/guardian approval (aside from extreme cases). However, I do not think these procedures should be outlawed. The decision should be made between the child, parents, and doctors. 

 

[I_M4_AU 7,810]

6 hours ago, Leftfield said:

The highlighted areas betray how you really feel about this subject. You state this was a decision/choice made by the son, and that the mother should have been able to assert some measure of control over it. You don't see it as the son's self-identity coming to the fore, and the mother offering guidance as to how to handle it. 

I do feel that teachers or other confidants should strongly encourage children to inform their parents, but in many cases there are very legitimate reasons for not doing so. I will give you an example: just this week, I kid you not, a 12-year-old boy in our neighborhood ran over to our friends' house. He had come out as trans to his parents and his father had threatened to kill him (I don't know if the boy had spoken directly to any teachers about being trans, but I do know at least some students have been aware for a while). Our friends sheltered that child and called the police while the parents were banging on their door. After a few hours of conversation, the police returned the child to the parents, and we were all terrified of what might happen. Fortunately, it appears cooler heads have prevailed, as the situation at home, while understandably still intense, no longer seems to be imminently dangerous, but what could have happened if that child had not made it out of the house, and our friends never called the police?  

I also agree that puberty blockers and especially surgery should require extensive evaluations by medical and psychological professionals, as well as parent/guardian approval (aside from extreme cases). However, I do not think these procedures should be outlawed. The decision should be made between the child, parents, and doctors. 

 

To the bolded part:  you’re right, I don’t see that a teenager’s self-identity coming to the fore, as they have no basis or experience to draw from.  They are experimenting in life.  It shouldn’t end up in a huge mistake by setting in motion an irreversible medical protocol.  It is the parent’s job to guide their offspring through the minefield that is life.  

I can’t comment on your situation in your neighborhood, but if it were my son father that he would learn some patience and make sure he really is trans before being cut on.  In other words no puberty blockers or cross sex hormones until he is 18 and if I had my way, until 21.

I base that on statically 80-90% of gender dysphoria is gone by adulthood.  Good luck to that dad and his son.  May they work it out to the betterment of the family.

I still believe there is not a good reason to experiment with puberty blockers and cross sex hormones on teenagers, let them live and gain experience and then decide how to proceed once they are adults.  It boils down to; I don’t believe teenagers have the mental capacity to make decisions like sex change surgeries in adolescence.  They don’t know what they want.  Don’t give them the option.

[homersapien 11,371]

13 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

I still believe there is not a good reason to experiment with puberty blockers and cross sex hormones on teenagers, let them live and gain experience and then decide how to proceed once they are adults.  It boils down to; I don’t believe teenagers have the mental capacity to make decisions like sex change surgeries in adolescence.  They don’t know what they want.  Don’t give them the option.

I believe this is none of the government's - or for that matter, your - business.

Edited November 19, 2022 by homersapien

[arein0 952]

11 minutes ago, homersapien said:

I believe this is none of the government's - or for that matter, your - business.

"I want small government for people like me, but big government for different people" -M4

Edited November 19, 2022 by arein0

[homersapien 11,371]

7 minutes ago, arein0 said:

"I want small government for people like me, but big government for different people" -M4

Well, how else can we force them to be "like me"? 

After all, this is for their own good.

 

Edited November 19, 2022 by homersapien

[I_M4_AU 7,810]

19 minutes ago, homersapien said:

I believe this is none of the government's - or for that matter, your - business.

Protecting children is not the business of the government?  Should we eliminate consent laws and allow minors to engage in sexual acts if they can be talked into it (give consent)?  Please tell me you’re kidding.  

[I_M4_AU 7,810]

14 minutes ago, arein0 said:

"I want small government for people like me, but big government for different people" -M4

You’re trying to drive a false narrative.  Its all about the children, you know, the one that are vulnerable.  If you are at the age of consent then it is up to that individual.  I guess you missed that part.

[creed 1,635]

5 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

You’re trying to drive a false narrative.  Its all about the children, you know, the one that are vulnerable.  If you are at the age of consent then it is up to that individual.  I guess you missed that part.

What is the age of consent?

[I_M4_AU 7,810]

3 minutes ago, creed said:

What is the age of consent?

Is There a Uniform Age of Consent for all 50 States in the United States?

No, there is not a uniform age of consent. The “Age of Consent” is the minimum age at which a person may consent to participation in sexual intercourse. A person younger than the legal age of consent cannot legally consent to sexual activity. The age of consent in the United States ranges from 16 to 18 years old depending on the state, meaning that a person 15 years of age or younger cannot legally consent to sexual contact. Each state enacts its owns laws which set the age of consent.  If someone engages in sexual activity with a person younger than the age of consent in that state, the person could be charged with Statutory Rape or other offenses depending on the nature of the contact.

https://www.bhwlawfirm.com/legal-age-consent-united-states-map/

Note: this is consent for sexual activity.

Minor Children and Capacity to Consent to Treatment
There are many instances in which the law treats children differently from adults, for clear developmental reasons: children simply are not capable of functioning as adults until they acquire sufficient maturity. For this reason, minor children – persons under the age of 18 – are generally prohibited from carrying out legal acts such as entering contracts. Another way of putting this is to say that minors do not have the legal capacity to carry out the daily affairs of adults.
In the context of health care, the general rule is that minors lack the legal capacity to give consent to treatment. Therefore, the general rule is that a minor needs an adult to give consent to health care on the minor’s behalf. There are exceptions to this general rule, which are discussed in more detail later in this document.

https://www.sog.unc.edu/sites/www.sog.unc.edu/files/course_materials/Consent to Medical Treatment for Minor Children.pdf

For medical surgery it is 18.  This is North Carolina’s law but is generally accepted

[arein0 952]

19 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

You’re trying to drive a false narrative.  Its all about the children, you know, the one that are vulnerable.  If you are at the age of consent then it is up to that individual.  I guess you missed that part.

If it was all about the children, MAGA wouldn't have called in a fake bomb threat to a Childrens Hospital. 

[arein0 952]

You keep saying think about the children. What about the children that are going through depression because they aren't able to or are afraid to be themselves because they are different? What about the children that are born into poverty with no way out? What about the children that were forced to be born to parents that refuse to acknowledge their existence?

If you are really all about the children, you would try to make all childrens lives better.

Again seems like you only think about the children similar to you, not all.

[homersapien 11,371]

57 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Protecting children is not the business of the government?  Should we eliminate consent laws and allow minors to engage in sexual acts if they can be talked into it (give consent)?  Please tell me you’re kidding.  

I did not say the government had no role in protecting children via laws, that's a disingenuous mischaracterization.

And obviously, the responsible treatment of gender dysphoria is in no respect similar to rape or pedophilia - that's your construction, not mine.

I am saying the primary responsibility for the psychological well-being of a child resides with the child's parents and medical professionals. 

To the extent it should be regulated  - and I certainly have no problem with that - the regulation should originate with medical professional organizations, not the government. 

And whatever legislation the government ultimately does deem appropriate should be base on the science, and not from laymen - such as yourself, promoting legislation which 1) doesn't address a defined (real) problem and 2) may result in worse outcomes for patients involved.  (The "don't say gay" genre of legislation is an example of such "remedies".)

This is not a problem the government needs to step in and "solve". 

And until I see some actual data - instead of anecdotes - that will be my position.  (I have no doubt the American Psychiatric Association is working on that data.)

 

 

 

Edited November 19, 2022 by homersapien

[homersapien 11,371]

35 minutes ago, creed said:

What is the age of consent?

Good question.

Are we talking about the legal age of consent for legal purposes, or are we talking about the appropriate age - medically speaking - that a person should be treated with drugs or surgery? 

What is the potential harm in providing - or not providing - 'puberty blockers' (for example) at that age?  Later regrets is something worth considering, but then so is suicide.  (And to be honest, I don't personally know the long term affects of puberty blockers, but I am confident I understand the long term effect of suicide.)

My point is these are medical questions, not questions for the government.

Bottom line, becoming obsessed with this a political at this time is a little wacko, IMO.

 

[I_M4_AU 7,810]

7 minutes ago, arein0 said:

What about the children that are going through depression because they aren't able to or are afraid to be themselves because they are different?

There hasn’t been a child that hasn’t been depressed for one reason or another during their childhood.  This is part of growing up.  Does a parent give into every whim their child has or do they try to guide them in the right direction?

10 minutes ago, arein0 said:

What about the children that are born into poverty with no way out?

Who has convinced these children there is no way out?  That is not something that a parent should do.  If it comes from their peers, well that is unfortunate.

12 minutes ago, arein0 said:

What about the children that were forced to be born to parents that refuse to acknowledge their existence?

 

I’m sure this exists, but I’m not aware of the frequency of these type of parents.  

 

14 minutes ago, arein0 said:

If you are really all about the children, you would try to make all childrens lives better.

One bite at a time.

15 minutes ago, arein0 said:

Again seems like you only think about the children similar to you, not all.

You would be wrong.   I believe a child should be allowed to grow up before being confronted with concepts introduced at a time in their life they may not be equipped to handle. 

[arein0 952]

6 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

There hasn’t been a child that hasn’t been depressed for one reason or another during their childhood.  This is part of growing up.  Does a parent give into every whim their child has or do they try to guide them in the right direction?

Who has convinced these children there is no way out?  That is not something that a parent should do.  If it comes from their peers, well that is unfortunate.

I’m sure this exists, but I’m not aware of the frequency of these type of parents.  

 

One bite at a time.

You would be wrong.   I believe a child should be allowed to grow up before being confronted with concepts introduced at a time in their life they may not be equipped to handle. 

Please keep showing your ignorance on the subject.

1. Being sad/upset is not the same as being depressed. Please stop trying to make it a commonality when it is not.

2. It is built into our society that children born into poverty are massively at a disadvantage. They receive poor education, medical care, etc. Even if they have a decent education, they are more than likely dropping out of school to work to help keep a roof over their heads and food on the table.

3. Happens all the time. Saw it with friends when I was growing up and continue to see it now.

[homersapien 11,371]

Funny how this discussion has evolved to performing surgery or medicating young children from this:

"No one has a clue, and researchers are too often shut down by cancel culture for even raising the questions.

Yes, it is an opinion piece from a person that has lived it.  You will not be impressed I’m sure.  He has been banned from twitter for spreading hate.  It is very difficult to get through the filters the LBGTQ coalition has put up."

- M4

In case there was any doubt, that's what I meant when I referred political wackiness on the subject.

Edited November 19, 2022 by homersapien

[I_M4_AU 7,810]

21 hours ago, homersapien said:

Funny how this discussion has evolved to performing surgery or medicating young children from this:

"No one has a clue, and researchers are too often shut down by cancel culture for even raising the questions.

Yes, it is an opinion piece from a person that has lived it.  You will not be impressed I’m sure.  He has been banned from twitter for spreading hate.  It is very difficult to get through the filters the LBGTQ coalition has put up."

- M4

In case there was any doubt, that's what I meant when I referred political wackiness on the subject.

Months ago puberty blockers were totally safe and reversible and now they are being questioned even by the NYT, which I have linked before.  Here it is again.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/14/health/puberty-blockers-transgender.html

Do you think the LBGTQ coalition had anything to do with the delay of these *new* revelations?

From the article:

Dutch doctors first offered puberty blockers to transgender adolescents three decades ago, typically following up with hormone treatment to help patients transition. Since then, the practice has spread to other countries, with varying protocols, little documentation of outcomes and no government approval of the drugs for that use, including by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration.

But there is emerging evidence of potential harm from using blockers, according to reviews of scientific papers and interviews with more than 50 doctors and academic experts around the world.

My comment:  we have been experimenting on our youth.  At least the COVID vaccine was approved by the FDA.

[homersapien 11,371]

2 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

Months ago puberty blockers were totally safe and reversible and now they are being questioned even by the NYT, which I have linked before.  Here it is again.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/14/health/puberty-blockers-transgender.html

Do you think the LBGTQ coalition had anything to do with the delay of these *new* revelations?

From the article:

Dutch doctors first offered puberty blockers to transgender adolescents three decades ago, typically following up with hormone treatment to help patients transition. Since then, the practice has spread to other countries, with varying protocols, little documentation of outcomes and no government approval of the drugs for that use, including by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration.

But there is emerging evidence of potential harm from using blockers, according to reviews of scientific papers and interviews with more than 50 doctors and academic experts around the world.

My comment:  we have been experimenting on our youth.  At least the COVID vaccine was approved by the FDA.

Pure conspiratorial thinking.  Thanks for reinforcing my point.

[arein0 952]

@I_M4_AUsince it seems you dont believe me on this subject, my challenge for you is to go volunteer at an inner city school, ask questions, and just listen to their stories. You have no idea the struggles many of the kids have to go through on a daily basis.

[I_M4_AU 7,810]

21 hours ago, homersapien said:

Pure conspiratorial thinking.  Thanks for reinforcing my point.

Please explain the banning of The Babylon Bee from twitter (a media outlet) for posting a sarcastic post about Dr Rachel Levine being *The Man of the Year*?  It appears the LGBTQ coalition has a lot of pull in todays media society.

Elon Musk just lifted the ban.

[homersapien 11,371]

20 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Please explain the banning of The Babylon Bee from twitter (a media outlet) for posting a sarcastic post about Dr Rachel Levine being *The Man of the Year*?  It appears the LGBTQ coalition has a lot of pull in todays media society.

Elon Musk just lifted the ban.

You just refuted your own case.  Apparently, they don't have as much "pull" as you give them credit for.

You are working from the exact same conspiratorial mindset exhibited by anti semites - LGBTQ groups exerting diabolical control over media - and by inference - society. 

[I_M4_AU 7,810]

17 minutes ago, homersapien said:

You just refuted your own case.  Apparently, they don't have as much "pull" as you give them credit for.

You are working from the exact same conspiratorial mindset exhibited by anti semites - LGBTQ groups exerting diabolical control over media - and by inference - society. 

You do like to miss point don’t you.  It’s not that they were reinstated its that they were banned in the first place.   Musk, being of a more free speech type of owner, corrected a wrong.

The act to limit speech and controlling the media was the way the anti-Semites got a foothold in government.  You are looking at it backwards, of course.