Don't Say Gay,,, Say Fraud

[icanthearyou 4,463]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/florida-republican-sponsored-don-t-224751326.html

 

What a nice man. 

[CoffeeTiger 5,135]

In a statement released Wednesday night, Harding said he has pleaded not guilty.

“I want the public and my constituents to know that I fully repaid the loan and cooperated with investigators as requested.”

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Translation: "I'm guilty as hell, but by paying back the money I'm hoping to get a slap on the wrist plea deal from prosecutors."

 

 

[CoffeeTiger 5,135]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/joe-harding-resigns-dont-say-gay-b2241864.html?utm_source=reddit.com

 

He has resigned his office. 

[SaltyTiger 7,816]

On 12/7/2022 at 8:47 PM, icanthearyou said:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/florida-republican-sponsored-don-t-224751326.html

 

What a nice man. 

“Don’t say gay” is sloganeering. It is Florida HB 1557

[DKW 86 7,430]

The only answer is he does real jail time. We must hold pols accountable. Losing his office? That was a done deal as soon as we heard about this.

 

[CoffeeTiger 5,135]

On 12/11/2022 at 8:08 AM, DKW 86 said:

The only answer is he does real jail time. We must hold pols accountable. Losing his office? That was a done deal as soon as we heard about this.

 

I do give him credit for resigning quickly and cleanly. Usually they'll act all defiant and make strong media statements about how they'll fight and hold their office till the end....before they eventually give in and resign a few weeks/months later. 

[DKW 86 7,430]

12 hours ago, CoffeeTiger said:

I do give him credit for resigning quickly and cleanly. Usually they'll act all defiant and make strong media statements about how they'll fight and hold their office till the end....before they eventually give in and resign a few weeks/months later. 

You are right on this Gaetz and the youngish gay Republican dude in NC that I don’t even care to remember. They were both arrogant jerks when their scandals broke. How Gaetz survived is a wonder to me. 

[homersapien 11,393]

On 12/9/2022 at 9:45 PM, SaltyTiger said:

“Don’t say gay” is sloganeering. It is Florida HB 1557

And what does HB 1557 prohibit?

[SaltyTiger 7,816]

10 minutes ago, homersapien said:

And what does HB 1557 prohibit?

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2022/1557

[homersapien 11,393]

17 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2022/1557

1) Requires district school boards to adopt procedures that comport with certain provisions of law for notifying student's parent of specified information;

2) requires such procedures to reinforce fundamental right of parents to make decisions regarding upbringing & control of their children;

3)prohibits school district from adopting procedures or student support forms that prohibit school district personnel from notifying parent about specified information or that encourage student to withhold from parent such information;

4) prohibits school district personnel from discouraging or prohibiting parental notification & involvement in critical decisions affecting student's mental, emotional, or physical well-being;

5) prohibits classroom discussion about sexual orientation or gender identity in certain grade levels; requires school districts to notify parents of healthcare services;

6) authorizes parent to bring action against school district to obtain declaratory judgment; provides for additional award of injunctive relief, damages, & reasonable attorney fees & court costs to certain parents.

 

1, 2 and 3 sound good, but it fails to protect a LGBTQ child who is seeking help from a parent who might harm them - or otherwise disown them - if they found out. 

I wonder if this really is needed.  It would seem to me that responsible parents wouldn't need their child's school to inform them of such matters, and the child needs to be protected from bad or abusive parents.

Same with 4.  What if the child's specific problem involves the perceived threat from their parent's?  What's the child's alternative - go to the cops? 

5.  In other words, "don't say gay".    (You're right, that's sloganeering but it's not false, and it's far more effective politically than a lengthy explanation of the pros and cons of a complex issue.  And obviously, both sides do it.)

6. Fine, assuming they don't already have such recourse.

This whole thing strikes me as an overt political response to fix a problem that doesn't really exist generally. It may make right wingers feel good, but it's liable to cause a lot of harm with the children at issue.

Or to put it differently, this bill is nothing more than a political "sloganeering" - only on a legal basis that's going to have real world consequences.  As they say, time will tell.  For the sake of the children, I hope I'm wrong.

 

Edited December 14, 2022 by homersapien

[SaltyTiger 7,816]

11 hours ago, homersapien said:

5.  In other words, "don't say gay". 

No, not “in other words”. 

[CoffeeTiger 5,135]

2 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

No, not “in other words”. 

Perception is reality. 

It's like how "Obama Care" isn't really the legal or official name of the Affordable Care Act, but whenever someone says 'Obama Care' everyone immediately knows what that person is talking about. 

 

A lot more people out in America would know immediately what you're talking about if you said the "Don't say Gay Bill". Almost none of them would recognize what FL HB 1557 is referring to. 

 

 

 

Edited December 14, 2022 by CoffeeTiger

[I_M4_AU 7,863]

58 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

Perception is reality. 

It's like how "Obama Care" isn't really the legal or official name of the Affordable Care Act, but whenever someone says 'Obama Care' everyone immediately knows what that person is talking about. 

 

A lot more people out in America would know immediately what you're talking about if you said the "Don't say Gay Bill". Almost none of them would recognize what FL HB 1557 is referring to. 

 

 

 

Perception is not reality, it only lives as reality in your head.  If you haven’t lost all critical thinking skills you would accept this.  Reality is hard, but ultimately has to be accepted.

The only reason more people in America would recognize the bill as *Don’t Say Gay Bill* is the LGBTQoeirie coalition got the narrative out as fast as they could and a lot of times the first thing you are taught is what you stick with, whether it is correct or not.

[homersapien 11,393]

3 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

No, not “in other words”. 

Yes, "in other words".

The intention of the clause in the bill is "don't say gay" only it uses legalistic words.

 

 

 

[CoffeeTiger 5,135]

36 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Perception is not reality, it only lives as reality in your head.  If you haven’t lost all critical thinking skills you would accept this.  Reality is hard, but ultimately has to be accepted.

 

 

Ok...and the reality is that the majority of the nation and most people who are not Florida Republicans know and refer to the bill as the "Don't say gay bill" 

Someone can hem and haw and interject "Well...aktchually....it's called HB 1557...or the 'Florida Parental rights in education bill', all you want but its not going to stop everyone from calling it and knowing it by the "Dont say gay bill"

 

 

[SaltyTiger 7,816]

2 hours ago, homersapien said:

Yes, "in other words".

The intention of the clause in the bill is "don't say gay" only it uses legalistic words.

 

 

 

What “legalistic words”? Prohibiting sexual orientation and gender identity discussion in certain grades? When I was a young parent would have had no problem with the bill. 

[Leftfield 2,616]

1 hour ago, SaltyTiger said:

Prohibiting sexual orientation and gender identity discussion in certain grades? When I was a young parent would have had no problem with the bill. 

You are really making it hard to take you seriously with statements like this.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

Purely political.  Nothing more than playing to the "christian" base.  Florida officially will not condone, will not protect, those who are gay.  It is inhumane and shameful.

Once again, the political right is creating an enemy.  Once again, the political right is pandering to bigotry.

 

[homersapien 11,393]

2 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

What “legalistic words”? Prohibiting sexual orientation and gender identity discussion in certain grades? When I was a young parent would have had no problem with the bill. 

Boy, are you ever missing the point.

[homersapien 11,393]

40 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

Purely political.  Nothing more than playing to the "christian" base.  Florida officially will not condone, will not protect, those who are gay.  It is inhumane and shameful.

Once again, the political right is creating an enemy.  Once again, the political right is pandering to bigotry.

 

While using their favorite weapon - fear.

[SaltyTiger 7,816]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

Boy, are you ever missing the point.

Maybe so. I am with you in thinking that it was a needless bill though.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

1 hour ago, SaltyTiger said:

Maybe so. I am with you in thinking that it was a needless bill though.

Then why pretend to defend it?

[Mims44 1,876]

22 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

What “legalistic words”? Prohibiting sexual orientation and gender identity discussion in certain grades? When I was a young parent would have had no problem with the bill. 

 

20 hours ago, icanthearyou said:

Purely political.  Nothing more than playing to the "christian" base.  Florida officially will not condone, will not protect, those who are gay.  It is inhumane and shameful.

Once again, the political right is creating an enemy.  Once again, the political right is pandering to bigotry.

 

I may be misremembering .... but doesn't the bill only cover elementary grade students?

 

[I_M4_AU 7,863]

23 minutes ago, Mims44 said:

 

I may be misremembering .... but doesn't the bill only cover elementary grade students?

 

The bill only covers K-3 or up to 9 yo I believe.

[SaltyTiger 7,816]

17 hours ago, icanthearyou said:

Then why pretend to defend it?

Not pretending to defend it. Just commented on your OP and sloganeering. While thinking the bill was needless certainly not shouting that it is prosecution of the alphabet community.