Juco players and message

[juscAUse 1]

A friend of mine, who is about as connected to the program as anyone I know, made a couple of statements that I hadn't considered. He says the JUCOS serve two purposes. Yes, immediate playing time as everyone has mentioned,but also another and perhaps, more important purpose. AU has a roster of 4 and 5 star players on our defense. Everybody wanted Gabe Wright, Blackson,etc., etc.,but they haven't produced. The jucos send a message to these players that our coach does not care who they are, or how many "stars" they have by their names,and that if they want to play,they better produce,or he will plug somebody else in. Now here's what I find interesting. My friend says Gus believes we had tremendous talent at AU on defense before we recruited this class,but doesn't know if the last two years has mentally affected them so much that they are not ready for play in the SEC. That's mentally and physically. So the jucos can solve the physical part by demonstrating to the current players that they better hit the weights and get stronger and faster,if they want to play for AU. If thay get the physical part down,the mental will follow. If they don't get the physical part down,they will be encouraged to transfer, and he will go to the next guy up. I like the fact that he thought we had good players. If we don't,recruiting evaluators should never be listened to again. Ever. However,it also points out what a horrible job the former staff did with that talent.

What do you think? Does this sound probable?

[DyeCampAlum 335]

I think it has the effect of sending that message. But coaches tend to think primarily in terms of what they simply need. We need help on the DL, especially at tackle.

[AU-24 3,121]

I am not an expert, but I know we have droves of talent on the defensive line, and they simply did not produce! So if this happens to be Gus's opinion, (juccos) it makes perfect sense to me!

[juscAUse 1]

I think it has the effect of sending that message. But coaches tend to think primarily in terms of what they simply need. We need help on the DL, especially at tackle.

I can't argue with that. But it still doesn't explain why players such as Whitaker,Wright,Blackson,etc. haven't produced. AU was not the only school that wanted these guys. Even the great Saban wanted most of them. So what I'm trying to figure out is why they haven't panned out. Coaching? Attitude? Work ethic? Or just a bust?

[FHeal 4]

So with 6 out of 23 being JUCO's... you think a little slap in the face has been delivered?

And being they're 3 offense and 3 defense... everyone might want to take notice?

[SphyNxXx 96]

I think it has the effect of sending that message. But coaches tend to think primarily in terms of what they simply need. We need help on the DL, especially at tackle.

.

I can't argue with that. But it still doesn't explain why players such as Whitaker,Wright,Blackson,etc. haven't produced. AU was not the only school that wanted these guys. Even the great Saban wanted most of them. So what I'm trying to figure out is why they haven't panned out. Coaching? Attitude? Work ethic? Or just a bust?

I tend to think it was the horrible d-line coach we just canned. D-line has been horrible since Rocker left and we have loads of talent

[Tiger 8,835]

Bottom line, Gustav wants to win and win now. He did what he thought he had to do to give him the best chance. Other motives such as sending messages, etc...IDK. I don't think he has time to "send messages" other than "if you're not good enough you won't play". I think we just have to take it for what it is. We needed immediate help, just as any team that just went 3-9 needs.

[28-27 0]

If you truly wanted to change the attitude (culture) of your team, an eighteen year old "hotshot" straight out of high school, far down the depth chart just won't make to big a difference before kickoff next year. Most JUCO's are on their second chance right now. They have worked their butts off, playing in front of a few dozen fans, just for an outside shot at a second chance. They KNOW dedication! They also should be in the mix for playing time, and this will cause them to be looked up to by the other players. High school kids cannot have this kind of effect on the guys who have been there for a few years. IMHO only.

[AuburnNTexas 7,215]

If it is just coaching the new coach will have a lot of talent to work with from the guys who were here and the new players including the Juco's. There is also the possibility that some of the original guys were not as good as rated. I don't know. Next year the guys like Whitaker, Blackson, etc will have been at AU long enough that there can't be any reason for them to have not gotten stronger, more physical and do what we all originally expected. If they do the D-Line will become the strength most of us thought they were going to be last year before the season.

One thing to watch is after Texas A&M strong showing we might see less of the type of SEC smash mouth type of football and more offenses like A&M which gave fits to all the SEC teams. It is hard to build a defense that can stop both types of Offenses.

[cptau 169]

I think it has the effect of sending that message. But coaches tend to think primarily in terms of what they simply need. We need help on the DL, especially at tackle.

Correct, but that also means pushing aside the player that is not performing. Look at what's happening at UAT, if they have room on the bench, a player that is not producting enough sits there, if they do not produce enough they get processed.....

Coaches do love it when players compete for playing time, but if they don't want to, their gone.

[AUIH1 1,515]

A friend of mine, who is about as connected to the program as anyone I know, made a couple of statements that I hadn't considered. He says the JUCOS serve two purposes. Yes, immediate playing time as everyone has mentioned,but also another and perhaps, more important purpose. AU has a roster of 4 and 5 star players on our defense. Everybody wanted Gabe Wright, Blackson,etc., etc.,but they haven't produced. The jucos send a message to these players that our coach does not care who they are, or how many "stars" they have by their names,and that if they want to play,they better produce,or he will plug somebody else in. Now here's what I find interesting. My friend says Gus believes we had tremendous talent at AU on defense before we recruited this class,but doesn't know if the last two years has mentally affected them so much that they are not ready for play in the SEC. That's mentally and physically. So the jucos can solve the physical part by demonstrating to the current players that they better hit the weights and get stronger and faster,if they want to play for AU. If thay get the physical part down,the mental will follow. If they don't get the physical part down,they will be encouraged to transfer, and he will go to the next guy up. I like the fact that he thought we had good players. If we don't,recruiting evaluators should never be listened to again. Ever. However,it also points out what a horrible job the former staff did with that talent.

What do you think? Does this sound probable?

I agree with your friend's opinion 100%.

wde

[AUinGA44 265]

A friend of mine, who is about as connected to the program as anyone I know, made a couple of statements that I hadn't considered. He says the JUCOS serve two purposes. Yes, immediate playing time as everyone has mentioned,but also another and perhaps, more important purpose. AU has a roster of 4 and 5 star players on our defense. Everybody wanted Gabe Wright, Blackson,etc., etc.,but they haven't produced. The jucos send a message to these players that our coach does not care who they are, or how many "stars" they have by their names,and that if they want to play,they better produce,or he will plug somebody else in. Now here's what I find interesting. My friend says Gus believes we had tremendous talent at AU on defense before we recruited this class,but doesn't know if the last two years has mentally affected them so much that they are not ready for play in the SEC. That's mentally and physically. So the jucos can solve the physical part by demonstrating to the current players that they better hit the weights and get stronger and faster,if they want to play for AU. If thay get the physical part down,the mental will follow. If they don't get the physical part down,they will be encouraged to transfer, and he will go to the next guy up. I like the fact that he thought we had good players. If we don't,recruiting evaluators should never be listened to again. Ever. However,it also points out what a horrible job the former staff did with that talent.

What do you think? Does this sound probable?

I talked to a friend of mine yesterday about this. I certainly think that the reason we are trying to sign JUCO players especially on defense is to motivate and show the "starters" from last year that they do not play default. That there is talent on the way and you better perform or grab a seat on the bench. Gabe is probably the most likeable and talented defensive guy on the team but I've heard from several people that his weight room and practice ethics are somewhat lacking. He better get his @$$ in gear or he may find that his work habits have set him back. (It needs to be noted that I really like Gabe and want him to be great. One of his HS coaches told me that he has the best pass rushing arsenal of any lineman he's ever seen. The kid has the tools.)

[auburn4ever 1,266]

Hoping coach Garner can fix things and build our defense to be what it was when he played here.

[IronMan70 3,277]

It's not just sending a message, although that is part of it. The goal is to win now. The JUCOs are there to plug holes in the '11 and '12 classes caused by attrition or lack of player development at critical positions. If you notice, all of the defensive JUCOs (Bradley, Flowers, King) have one thing in common, they are hard hitters and ballers. If any one of the Whitakers, Wrights, Blacksons haven't already got the message that causes them to be busting their butts in the weight rooms right now, their clock is ticking. They will drop down the depth chart and probably ride the pine if they don't lose baby fat, add muscle and get much stronger.

When we have a Bradley, possibly Johnson, then add in an Adams, Lawson and Daniels to the equation, then couple that with the fact that the current players were getting pushed around last year, that should be all the motivation any player needs. If they want to start or even play, they need to get themselves ready for the '13 season now.

[alexava 6,974]

He got jucos to play now because we need production. If that motivates the former high school studs to work harder great. But competition is a motivator and he is trying to raise the competiyion level. Structure in off season workouts and work ethic will be what makes or breaks 2013. He also emphasized "tough, hard nosed players" yesterday. He can see we were soft.

[juscAUse 1]

If you truly wanted to change the attitude (culture) of your team, an eighteen year old "hotshot" straight out of high school, far down the depth chart just won't make to big a difference before kickoff next year. Most JUCO's are on their second chance right now. They have worked their butts off, playing in front of a few dozen fans, just for an outside shot at a second chance. They KNOW dedication! They also should be in the mix for playing time, and this will cause them to be looked up to by the other players. High school kids cannot have this kind of effect on the guys who have been there for a few years. IMHO only.

I truly believe this was part of whay my bud was trying to say,and I did a horrible job of it,also. Somebody has to lead. Maybe these guys will.

[cooltigger21 0]

was it the position coach or was it the hc not allowing the asst. coaches to do their job? we may never fully know.

[Tntigers 24]

Bottom line, Gustav wants to win and win now. He did what he thought he had to do to give him the best chance. Other motives such as sending messages, etc...IDK. I don't think he has time to "send messages" other than "if you're not good enough you won't play". I think we just have to take it for what it is. We needed immediate help, just as any team that just went 3-9 needs.

Sure he wants to win, but the key driver is that he HAS to win.....there is no other option.

[TigerNBham 3]

Listened to an interesting spin on the same subject on radio tonight concerning massive JUCO class @ Az. St. Mostly two completely different reasons, i.e. their new staff did not know markets well enough to recruit, but one common one, need to plug holes now . JUCOs are seasoned and under-

stand what they had to do to get back to the bigs.

I am going to say it as I see it. Gus' goal was immediate improvement and to win now. But our under producers should take notice of what they see and what their future can be. I wiish 'em all well, but , grow up, man up or step aside. This is big time SEC football and a lot of them have not been in a big time mind frame and been an embarrassment to themselves and to the school.

[aubfaninga 16]

If it is just coaching the new coach will have a lot of talent to work with from the guys who were here and the new players including the Juco's. There is also the possibility that some of the original guys were not as good as rated. I don't know. Next year the guys like Whitaker, Blackson, etc will have been at AU long enough that there can't be any reason for them to have not gotten stronger, more physical and do what we all originally expected. If they do the D-Line will become the strength most of us thought they were going to be last year before the season.

One thing to watch is after Texas A&M strong showing we might see less of the type of SEC smash mouth type of football and more offenses like A&M which gave fits to all the SEC teams. It is hard to build a defense that can stop both types of Offenses.

While I agree with your statement about no excuses let's not forget that Angelo Blackson and Gabe Wright were in high school in 2010. I will get back to them in a minute.

1st off allow me to address Jeff Whitaker. Jeff doubled his production from his freshman to sophmore year ending with 17 solo tackles and 2 tackles for loss. Alot was expected going into this year but Whitaker got banged up early. Back injury at that and for a big hog you need every bit of your back. In my eyes he gets a mulligan. Really interested to see if he comes out with some fire for his senior year.

2nd is Kenneth Carter. This one I can't even attempt to defend. I have yet to see any noticeable improvement.

3rd is Gabe Wright. I expected better production out of him by now but let's please remember that he was only a true sophmore. Be patient and Nick Fairley says hello!

4th is Angelo Blackson. Another true soph. that in my eyes was a developmental project when we signed him. We knew that he had the size and potential but he was very rough coming out of high school. I was actually pleasantly pleased with his progress from 2011 to 2012. He plays too high but if anyone thinks that this boy is not strong then you and I were watching 2 different young men. If he makes the same amount of improvement this year that he did from last year there will be alot of people on his band wagon. Get lower big guy!!! Please play lower!!!

We all have different expectations from athletes but take the time to compare some things.

Nick Fairley had 14 solo tackles 3.5 tackles for loss and 1.5 sacks his soph year. He then turned that into 36-24-11.5 his senior year.

How does Gabe and Angelo stack up when looking at sophmore production against big Nick?

Nick fa 14 solo- 3.5 tfl- 1.5 sacks

Angelo 12 solo- 7.0 tfl- 1 sack

Gabe w 12 solo- 4.5 tfl- 1 sack

If you have time to compare Gabe's and Angelo's numbers with other tackles in the league I suggest you do before discarding 2 young tackles in the trash. Please don't compare with some of the freak defensive ends just because they play defensive line either. Not a level playing field. I am talking about players like Isaac Gross, Trey Flowers, Anthony Johnson to name a few young guns. Take a look at sophmore production from Sharrif Floyd, Sheldon Richardson and John Jenkins(junior stats in his case). Again, there has never been a bunch of all world underclassmen defensive tackles in the SEC. Most old timers could probably name them off by memory. GUS DID NOT RECRUIT JUCO PLAYERS TO SCARE PEOPLE!!!

This is only my opinion and to most my opinion stinks. Gus has brought in JUCO players to fill needs. Defensive tackle had needs. We have 4 hogs that have been in the fire. 1 has yet to develop, 1 has a back injury in his past, and the other 2 are expected to show their colors this year. Any 2 of these players get injured and what do we have? Gus recruited JUCO players to have depth in areas that you need depth to play in the SEC.

If you have a descent memory Chiz did the same thing early and then tried to build the team without using alot of JUCO players. It helped in 2010 but bit him hard in the bottom area last year. On the other hand I don't expect to see many complaining about how many junior and seniors we will have in 2014. The decision not to recruit from JUCO might pay off for Auburn by then. Before anyone bashes coaches decisions about not recruiting alot of JUCO players, please take the time to hear what Gus has to say about bringing in alot from JUCO in the future.

[AuburnTiger4Life 2,225]

Well I hate it for a couple of those guys because Carl Lawson and Adams will definitely start next season. Possibly Elijah Daniel too.

[alabamapaper 0]

While I cannot write the following as an established fact as the first two playing rotations on defense are not established just yet, there is a good chance that the first and second string on the 2013 Auburn defense will have more highly regarded talent by recruiting services than any starters on any defense Coach Johnson has coached including his time at Alabama in the 90s. Not only this, but Coach Garner will be coaching a pool of talent more highly regarded by recruiting services on the defensive line than any other team he has coached previously as far as I can discern. Even the linebackers, which have been a weak link, were all highly regarded recruits.

This is a staff known for coaching up three star talent and competing in the SEC. It is hard to say if they can coach up what was four and five star talent, but one would assume it is possible and the results should be positive.

One thing we must remember is that these athletes already on the team were training and were being coached. This training and coaching might not have been to the standards needed to compete with the competition in the SEC, but it is also much better than not training at all and likely better than the vast majority of training at the majority of high schools. Young men are resilient and prone to make big steps when properly motivated. It is unlikely to take as long as many believe to tap into the underlying talent on the 2013 Auburn roster if this coaching staff performs as well as it appears most of them have in the past.

[aubfaninga 16]

While I cannot write the following as an established fact as the first two playing rotations on defense are not established just yet, there is a good chance that the first and second string on the 2013 Auburn defense will have more highly regarded talent by recruiting services than any starters on any defense Coach Johnson has coached including his time at Alabama in the 90s. Not only this, but Coach Garner will be coaching a pool of talent more highly regarded by recruiting services on the defensive line than any other team he has coached previously as far as I can discern. Even the linebackers, which have been a weak link, were all highly regarded recruits.

This is a staff known for coaching up three star talent and competing in the SEC. It is hard to say if they can coach up what was four and five star talent, but one would assume it is possible and the results should be positive.

One thing we must remember is that these athletes already on the team were training and were being coached. This training and coaching might not have been to the standards needed to compete with the competition in the SEC, but it is also much better than not training at all and likely better than the vast majority of training at the majority of high schools. Young men are resilient and prone to make big steps when properly motivated. It is unlikely to take as long as many believe to tap into the underlying talent on the 2013 Auburn roster if this coaching staff performs as well as it appears most of them have in the past.

I like your style!!!

[Matman4AU 0]

One thing to watch is after Texas A&M strong showing we might see less of the type of SEC smash mouth type of football and more offenses like A&M which gave fits to all the SEC teams. It is hard to build a defense that can stop both types of Offenses.

One of the great things about CEJ's 4-2-5 is that it is specifically designed to slow down the aTm type offenses without compromising too much on the ability to run traditional defenses as well by simply moving the "spur" linebacker into a 4-3 formation. CEJ has also proven that he can adapt this scheme to the talent on the roster and put playmakers in the position to make plays. His defenses have proven to stop or slow some of the SEC's traditional offenses and if he can't learn how to defend the spread/HUNH/dynamic offenses like aTm runs from our current head coach, he never will. I think it will take some adjusting, especially from our linebacker corps, combined with some progress from our DL which Gus has shored up, and hopefully lit a fire under with the jucos. I believe that Gus wouldn't sign anyone he didn't think could play, but I also believe that the fact that these jucos were brought in to have a shot to play should be enough to motivate any of our players who weren't previously self-motivated whether that was Gus's intention or not.

[AU64 10,122]

JMO...Gus brought in these JUCO defensive players to play now...and he expects to win now. Maybe sending a message is a collateral benefit but winning in 2013 is the goal.

I agree with those who think these great DL recruits will play this year...but not because they will be supplanting the experienced guys already on the team. The HUNH offense is going to require the defense to be prepared for some short turnaround time on the bench during a game. Depth will be a major factor in our success this season.