Can someone please explain...

[CameronCrazy 1,068]

Why do baseball and other sports only give out partial scholarships? And why hasn't anyone started a petition to change this NCAA rule to be able to give out full scholarships! This is killing us in recruiting and puts us at a great disadvantage to other schools that are in states with a lottery...

[Mikey 16,630]

Why do baseball and other sports only give out partial scholarships? And why hasn't anyone started a petition to change this NCAA rule to be able to give out full scholarships! This is killing us in recruiting and puts us at a great disadvantage to other schools that are in states with a lottery...

The NCAA only allows 11.25 scholarships per team. That's why baseball gives out partial scholarships. As to why the NCAA has this rule, you'd have to ask them. Yes, the lottery scholarships give some schools an advantage but until the NCAA worries about that angle, nothing will change.

Note, I remember reading somewhere last year that less than half of the teams in the CWS had the benefit of lottery schollies, so having them does not give those teams a slam dunk to greatness.

[wareagle13 88]

Title IX plain and simple. For every dollar that's put into a male sport an equal dollar must be applied towards a woman's sport. The NCAA, in order to help some teams from having to fold their baseball programs like a lot of SEC teams did with men's soccer, limited the scholarships that could be applied to baseball. They did this as well because for some/most colleges men's baseball actually operates in the black because of their low cost of operation.

[AU64 10,122]

less than half of the teams in the CWS

The thing is that we don't know what the other schools do in the way of scholarship aid beyond what the NCAA allows for scholarships in their baseball programs. I expect it depends on how much the school values the baseball program and how much support it gets from outside.

NCAA mostly worries about football and basketball and keeps a close eye on number of scholarships, recruiting, benefits, etc. etc.....but the other sports are not as closely regulated and the fact that schools can split up scholarships means they can make decisions on the amount of $$$ based on the student's needs and the ability of the student to get other aid from other sources. I mean, when was the last time anyone stalked a Bama centerfielder to see where his mother works or what car he is driving?

Not saying we should not have high expectations (and results) but it is an unlevel playing field and that is more than just a pun.

[Mikey 16,630]

If it were a straightforward case of schools being able to buy players with scholarship money, Auburn could come up with the $ to compete. And Stanford would win the CWS every year, except for when Texas won it.

There is no mysterious way that other schools can do things that Auburn cannot.

[auclong 1]

Nothing mysterious. States like Ga and Fla that have schollies available can keep their in state students at home because they have lottery scholarship money available. They aren`t the only states; just the 2 closest to us. What it amounts to is they can use the 11.25 schollies for out of state players and use Hope or whatever state schollie for instate students. Make it a lot easier to recruit out of state for them. We end up splitting up our money and the out of state players we recruit also have to pay out of state tuition too. Not really fair but the way it is. We can use Pell grants and some other programs to help some.

[Mikey 16,630]

Nothing mysterious. States like Ga and Fla that have schollies available can keep their in state students at home because they have lottery scholarship money available. They aren`t the only states; just the 2 closest to us. What it amounts to is they can use the 11.25 schollies for out of state players and use Hope or whatever state schollie for instate students. Make it a lot easier to recruit out of state for them. We end up splitting up our money and the out of state players we recruit also have to pay out of state tuition too. Not really fair but the way it is. We can use Pell grants and some other programs to help some.

I think everyone understands the Hope-type scholarship situation. The excuse was made that private schools have some built in advantage, schools with large endowments have an advantage, and the Mississippi schools waiving out of state tuition provide them with an advantage. None of those excuses hold water.

No school, regardless of resources or the public/private question, may offer an academic scholarship to a recruited athlete unless such athlete would otherwise be eligible for that scholarship. If they are otherwise eligible, Auburn can offer too.

As for what a huge recruiting advantage the Hope scholarships provide, where's Georgia been in the CWS? In the SEC championship series? Oops, not there!

Florida has been there, but that's not due to the Hope schollies. If it were, their competition would have been UGA.

[Cajun 0]

Nothing mysterious. States like Ga and Fla that have schollies available can keep their in state students at home because they have lottery scholarship money available. They aren`t the only states; just the 2 closest to us. What it amounts to is they can use the 11.25 schollies for out of state players and use Hope or whatever state schollie for instate students. Make it a lot easier to recruit out of state for them. We end up splitting up our money and the out of state players we recruit also have to pay out of state tuition too. Not really fair but the way it is. We can use Pell grants and some other programs to help some.

I think everyone understands the Hope-type scholarship situation. The excuse was made that private schools have some built in advantage, schools with large endowments have an advantage, and the Mississippi schools waiving out of state tuition provide them with an advantage. None of those excuses hold water.

No school, regardless of resources or the public/private question, may offer an academic scholarship to a recruited athlete unless such athlete would otherwise be eligible for that scholarship. If they are otherwise eligible, Auburn can offer too.

As for what a huge recruiting advantage the Hope scholarships provide, where's Georgia been in the CWS? In the SEC championship series? Oops, not there!

Florida has been there, but that's not due to the Hope schollies. If it were, their competition would have been UGA.

Glad you don't run my company. Could it be that uga has simply underachieved even worse? Duh, huh. One only has to look at the number of appearances by Lotto state teams in Omaha to see the obvious trend. It's a landslide. And you are wrong - private schools can give scholarships to whomever they choose as long as no other student is discriminated against because of race or gender. And schools like Vandy and Miami have more scholarship money than students that can get in. You call them excuses, the rest of the non-negative world call it facts.

[AU64 10,122]

Nothing mysterious. States like Ga and Fla that have schollies available can keep their in state students at home because they have lottery scholarship money available. They aren`t the only states; just the 2 closest to us. What it amounts to is they can use the 11.25 schollies for out of state players and use Hope or whatever state schollie for instate students. Make it a lot easier to recruit out of state for them. We end up splitting up our money and the out of state players we recruit also have to pay out of state tuition too. Not really fair but the way it is. We can use Pell grants and some other programs to help some.

I think everyone understands the Hope-type scholarship situation. The excuse was made that private schools have some built in advantage, schools with large endowments have an advantage, and the Mississippi schools waiving out of state tuition provide them with an advantage. None of those excuses hold water.

No school, regardless of resources or the public/private question, may offer an academic scholarship to a recruited athlete unless such athlete would otherwise be eligible for that scholarship. If they are otherwise eligible, Auburn can offer too.

As for what a huge recruiting advantage the Hope scholarships provide, where's Georgia been in the CWS? In the SEC championship series? Oops, not there!

Florida has been there, but that's not due to the Hope schollies. If it were, their competition would have been UGA.

Glad you don't run my company. Could it be that uga has simply underachieved even worse? Duh, huh. One only has to look at the number of appearances by Lotto state teams in Omaha to see the obvious trend. It's a landslide. And you are wrong - private schools can give scholarships to whomever they choose as long as no other student is discriminated against because of race or gender. And schools like Vandy and Miami have more scholarship money than students that can get in. You call them excuses, the rest of the non-negative world call it facts.

++

Perhaps the most telling thing about college baseball in the south is the small number of black athletes playing baseball in the SEC...and likely because of the lack of scholarship money. A HS kid has to be really good to get a full scholly and how many want to pay part or most of their schooling cost if they can get a full ride in football or basketball? ...or can sign a minor league contract. If you look at the personal background of the scholarship athletes that come to AU, a large percent do not have family financial support sufficient to pay for four years at Auburn....and even with scholarships, it is tough for many of them.

As for academic scholarships, each has it's own criteria and many are not totally based on GPA or ACT. All in all, the financial picture of college baseball makes no sense and funding at each school beyond the allowed NCAA scholly's depends on what supporters want to provide. It's easy for someone to say that ":Auburn can do this too"...but show me the money as they say. Lots of folks on this board over estimate the ability and willingness of AU alums/supporters to provide money for athletic purposes when the academic side of the school has so many needs.

[Mikey 16,630]

Quote: "funding at each school beyond the allowed NCAA scholly's depends on what supporters want to provide."

Oh, please! If the gates are wide open at Vandy for them to use their huge endowment to buy baseball players, I now understand why they have so many black baseball players. Oh, wait.....they don't.

You guys saying that private schools and schools with huge endowments can buy all the baseball players they want aren't using common sense. If you were correct, the CWS would have Notre Dame, Boston College, So. Cal, Stanford, Vandy, Baylor, Yale and Harvard in it every year. That isn't so, and the reason is that those schools cannot give unlimited baseball scholarships, no matter how much rich alumni might want to pay for them. Step back, take a deep breath and THINK.

The only advantage, and it's a modest one at best, is to schools that benefit from some sort of Hope scholarship system. Even that has to be set up correctly or it fails the NCAA test.

[PowerOfDixieland 3,226]

A HS kid has to be really good to get a full scholly

Nobody gets a full ride in D1 with baseball money only. I have first hand knowledge of kids who have signed with Florida (and subsequently transferred to Clemson) and another who signed with Auburn and is now (leading the NJCAA in RBI) at Gulf Coast. It's well documented that baseball is the most expensive "scholarship" in all of college athletics.

[Mikey 16,630]

A HS kid has to be really good to get a full scholly

Nobody gets a full ride in D1 with baseball money only. I have first hand knowledge of kids who have signed with Florida (and subsequently transferred to Clemson) and another who signed with Auburn and is now (leading the NJCAA in RBI) at Gulf Coast. It's well documented that baseball is the most expensive "scholarship" in all of college athletics.

This is a puzzling statement. How do books, tuition and meals for a baseball player cost more than the same things for a football, basketball or soccer player? Where's that "well documented"? Do baseball players eat more than the other athletes?

[80Tiger 899]

A HS kid has to be really good to get a full scholly

Nobody gets a full ride in D1 with baseball money only. I have first hand knowledge of kids who have signed with Florida (and subsequently transferred to Clemson) and another who signed with Auburn and is now (leading the NJCAA in RBI) at Gulf Coast. It's well documented that baseball is the most expensive "scholarship" in all of college athletics.

It is far and few between, but some do get a 100% baseball scholarship. It has been about 12 years, but I had a neighbor get one to AU. He was offered by both UA and AU full scholarship for baseball. Most are the 50% range.

[AU64 10,122]

A HS kid has to be really good to get a full scholly

Nobody gets a full ride in D1 with baseball money only. I have first hand knowledge of kids who have signed with Florida (and subsequently transferred to Clemson) and another who signed with Auburn and is now (leading the NJCAA in RBI) at Gulf Coast. It's well documented that baseball is the most expensive "scholarship" in all of college athletics.

This is a puzzling statement. How do books, tuition and meals for a baseball player cost more than the same things for a football, basketball or soccer player? Where's that "well documented"? Do baseball players eat more than the other athletes?

Actually it's pretty easy M if you think about it a moment. Most kids who get baseball schollys end up paying a good part of their college education via loans or their parents. ....and baseball schollys (compared to football for example) only cover a part of their college expenses....which is why some schools are willing/able to provide aid from other sources. This is not that complicated and I can't see why some people are having so much trouble understanding the difference between minor sport scholarships and those for basketball and football players.

[Mikey 16,630]

Ok, apparently you mean more expensive to the player and/or his family. Yes, since they only get partial help. I thought you were saying it was more expensive to the school.

About that aid from other sources: That's an NCAA no-no, except in the case of something like a lottery scholarship that's available to all qualified students. Were it not a no-no, I'm pretty sure the Auburn University Diamond Club would be glad to spring for three or four a year. Bobby Lowder would write a check for five or six and by the time several of our CEO's of Forbes 500 companies pitched in a few hundred thousand each Auburn wouldn't even need the hundred bucks little fish like me would be glad to contribute. We wouldn't even need the 11.25 scholarships from the University, the entire 33 member baseball team could be easily supported with private donations. Every major school in the country could do that.

That it's not being done is a pretty good indication that private donations cannot be used to support baseball players outside of the 11.25 NCAA limit.

[PowerOfDixieland 3,226]

This is a puzzling statement.... Where's that "well documented"?

Can I Google that for you?

"Cartels succeed because they can control supply. Cartels fail because they don't respond well to changes in demand. The NCAA, a classic cartel, says that because Texas and Ohio State make a lot of money on football, Vanderbilt can't offer extra scholarships to baseball players. And because the NCAA arbitrarily assigned scholarship limits for each sport, in an attempt to make the numbers for women approximately equal to those for men, Vandy can't offer extra scholarships to softball players, either." http://espn.go.com/espnw/title-ix/7959799/the-silent-enemy-men-sports

With 27 "counters" and 11.75 scholarships nobody, and I mean NOBODY gets a full ride in D1 baseball. Anybody who tells you their kid was the only one (and they all do) is lying. Do the math. That kid gets drafted and signed if he's that good, and that's not something the parent can lie about.

[WarEagle10 77]

Baseball is a non-revenue sport. That is why scholarship numbers are so sparse for it. Every now and then a player will get a full ride in baseball. They have to be really really good though. It doesn't happen often, but it does happen.

[Mikey 16,630]

This is a puzzling statement.... Where's that "well documented"?

Can I Google that for you?

"Cartels succeed because they can control supply. Cartels fail because they don't respond well to changes in demand. The NCAA, a classic cartel, says that because Texas and Ohio State make a lot of money on football, Vanderbilt can't offer extra scholarships to baseball players. And because the NCAA arbitrarily assigned scholarship limits for each sport, in an attempt to make the numbers for women approximately equal to those for men, Vandy can't offer extra scholarships to softball players, either." http://espn.go.com/espnw/title-ix/7959799/the-silent-enemy-men-sports

With 27 "counters" and 11.75 scholarships nobody, and I mean NOBODY gets a full ride in D1 baseball. Anybody who tells you their kid was the only one (and they all do) is lying. Do the math. That kid gets drafted and signed if he's that good, and that's not something the parent can lie about.

You didn't google anything that addressed my question to AU64, or was even in the ballpark. On the other hand, did you fail to see where I wrote this to AU64 in post #15 above? "Ok, apparently you mean more expensive to the player and/or his family. Yes, since they only get partial help. I thought you were saying it was more expensive to the school."

[PowerOfDixieland 3,226]

You didn't google anything that addressed my question to AU64, or was even in the ballpark....

No economics courses at Auburn? Any time supply is artificially lowered, the cost will go up (if there is demand). You don't really think gasoline should cost $4.00, do you? Not only did I address your question, I also made your point about "extra" scholarship money. Read the link.

I guess when one makes thousands of posts, the percentage of thoughtless comments made aren't any greater than the average. It's just the shear number of them, in some cases, that causes me to scratch my head sometimes.

[Mikey 16,630]

You didn't google anything that addressed my question to AU64, or was even in the ballpark....

No economics courses at Auburn? Any time supply is artificially lowered, the cost will go up (if there is demand). You don't really think gasoline should cost $4.00, do you? Not only did I address your question, I also made your point about "extra" scholarship money. Read the link.

I guess when one makes thousands of posts, the percentage of thoughtless comments made aren't any greater than the average. It's just the shear number of them, in some cases, that causes me to scratch my head sometimes.

Supply and demand has nothing to do with whether the NCAA allows boosters to fund athletic scholarships outside of the NCAA's limits. Their little rule about athletes not getting extra benefits covers that. You may scratch your head until it bleeds and that's not going to change, nor is your link going to have anything to do with the topic being discussed.

[AU64 10,122]

For gosh sakes people ....do a little research the matter before spouting off;

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/NCAA/Resources/Behind+the+Blue+Disk/How+Do+Athletic+Scholarships+Work

The following is quoted from the NCAA site above.

Can student-athletes receive other non-athletics financial aid? Yes. Thousands of student-athletes benefit from academic scholarships, NCAA financial aid programs such as the NCAA Division I Student-Athlete Opportunity Fund and need-based aid such as Federal Pell Grants. Student-athletes and parents should check with their school’s athletics department or financial aid office regarding permissible sources of financial aid.

Or check this site: http://www.athleticscholarships.net/academicscholarships.htm

Grades Matter

Because of the way the recruiting process works, college coaches have a limited number of scholarships they can offer. A coach will work with prospective student athletes and the financial aid office to first determine if a student is eligible for financial aid. If a student qualifies, the amount of the scholarship decreases, leaving more money for scholarships for other students.

Or this: http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/07/12/4096835/baseball-coaches-struggle-with.html

Some private schools such as Rice and Stanford have huge endowments that help fill in the scholarship holes on their rosters and allow them to supplement their 11.7 baseball scholarships with financial aid that covers most, if not all, of a student's tuition, room and board. Rice has an endowment of nearly $4.5 billion. Stanford has the fifth largest endowment in the country at more than $16 billion.

Read more here: http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/07/12/4096835/baseball-coaches-struggle-with.html#storylink=cpy

[Mikey 16,630]

AU64, schools such as Rice and Stanford can only help athletes if they otherwise qualify for the scholarship. IE, they can't put a "C" student that's a baseball player on an academic scholarship.

It doesn't matter how many billions a school may have in its endowment, they can't use that money for athletes unless said athlete qualifies for an academic scholarship. Auburn can do the same thing. It doesn't take billions to fund a handful of baseball scholarships.

The size of a school's endowment doesn't matter. Look at the chart in your link. Tulane and Miami, the two schools with the smallest endowments have just as many CWS appearances as do the super-rich schools.

Quoted from the NCAA link: "Can student-athletes receive other non-athletics financial aid? Yes. Thousands of student-athletes benefit from academic scholarships, NCAA financial aid programs such as the NCAA Division I Student-Athlete Opportunity Fund and need-based aid such as Federal Pell Grants. Student-athletes and parents should check with their school’s athletics department or financial aid office regarding permissible sources of financial aid."

Auburn offers everything mentioned there.

[AU64 10,122]

M either you are obtuse or just being argumentative...next thing you will be saying that Donald Trump and I can afford the same house.

[mustache eagle 2,406]

dude, you must have a nice house ... can i come over and watch the game on your big screen. you will have wings and beer for me, right?

[Mikey 16,630]

M either you are obtuse or just being argumentative...next thing you will be saying that Donald Trump and I can afford the same house.

If Donald Trump and you were required to pay the same amount for a house, similar to the NCAA making every school offer the same baseball scholarship benefits and scholarship numbers, then yes, you and Trump would be living in exactly the same house. Maybe he could afford more, but he wouldn't be allowed to pay more.

That's the NCAA's way of trying to get a level playing field so the rich don't simply get richer. The same reasoning behind SEC schools not being allowed to give out 80 football scholarships a year and why U-Conn can't give out 50 basketball scholarships every year and why, oh hey, baseball schools can have only a total of 11.7 baseball scholarships. It doesn't matter how big a school's endowment is because endowment money cannot be used to fund baseball scholarships past 11.7.