Is our athletic department "too religious"?

[keesler 5,924]

The question that needs to be asked to some of these people is this - what if our coaches were shoving Islam down student athletes' throats? What if they were teaching and imposing the views of the Democratic Party on kids? Would you be as adamant about them speaking their mind? Didn't think so, and don't try to deny it. You'd be in an uproar. Just like not every kid going to Auburn will be a Muslim or a Democrat, not every kid going to Auburn is a Christian. We need to first of all, make sure that our coaches are being fair to those here currently, or potentially, that are not Christians, and also we simply need to demand our coaches do the job they were hired to do in the first place - win and develop players. Maybe one of the reasons we haven't been able to win as much the past few years is because we have had and now have coaches focused on doing other things at their job besides coaching. These coaches need to focus on their job, not imposing an agenda on impressionable kids. That can't be tolerated, regardless of what they're selling and it is very out of line and unprofessional.

DyeHardAllTheWay for whatever reason has been MIA for a few days in the wake of making comments/accusations such as these highlighted above. I'd love to know what type of connections or communication he/she has with our "current" coaching staff and "current" players that would make him so concerned with the direction this new staff is taking this program.

[homersapien 11,373]

Against my better judgment, I'm entering the fray...

I am a better man than homersapien.

Of all the things I've read on this thread (haven't read it all though), this statement might be the most offensive thing I've seen. As a fellow believer, I implore you with Philippians 2 to consider these words very carefully. One of the biggest things Jesus taught against was those who thought themselves better than others. Most of Christianity's problems stem from Christains believing themselves to be better than others. If anything, close communion with Jesus reveals to us just how disgusting we are, not how much better we are than other sinners.

I sent this reply to Jared52 explaining my post............Don't take my statement out of context.The better man was to back off and stop the division and confusion we were causing by continuing the conversation. Had nothing to do where we stood with God. As you see i have refrained, he is continuing his devil advocacating,dividing and causing hurt in a thread that does not need to be continued on the football forum...Respectfully

Pastor Ricky Aldridge.

Right. Those with alternative viewpoints from yours are creating "division, confusion and causing hurt".

It is certainly not my intention to divide, confuse or (especially) hurt anyone, so if I have hurt you, I sincerely apologize.

But like they say, if it's too hot in the kitchen..... So if you want to blame someone, blame the moderators of this forum for allowing an honest discussion of the topic. Personally, I respect them for it.

[TheBlueVue 177]

The question that needs to be asked to some of these people is this - what if our coaches were shoving Islam down student athletes' throats? What if they were teaching and imposing the views of the Democratic Party on kids? Would you be as adamant about them speaking their mind? Didn't think so, and don't try to deny it. You'd be in an uproar. Just like not every kid going to Auburn will be a Muslim or a Democrat, not every kid going to Auburn is a Christian. We need to first of all, make sure that our coaches are being fair to those here currently, or potentially, that are not Christians, and also we simply need to demand our coaches do the job they were hired to do in the first place - win and develop players. Maybe one of the reasons we haven't been able to win as much the past few years is because we have had and now have coaches focused on doing other things at their job besides coaching. These coaches need to focus on their job, not imposing an agenda on impressionable kids. That can't be tolerated, regardless of what they're selling and it is very out of line and unprofessional.

DyeHardAllTheWay for whatever reason has been MIA for a few days in the wake of making comments/accusations such as these highlighted above. I'd love to know what type of connections or communication he/she has with our "current" coaching staff and "current" players that would make him so concerned with the direction this new staff is taking this program.

What has continued to entertain me is all the hypothetical speculations about what this staff is doing that cannot be tolerated.... its unbelievable. How can people conclude in less than 6 months that this staff is pushing religion on anyone? Personally, I do not believe they are. I would also be willing to bet that not many, if any, players on Auburn's roster consider themselves to be agnostic or atheist. Indeed, I have no way of knowing that but, I believe a much bigger deal is being made of this than anything the coaches have done warrants.

[keesler 5,924]

The question that needs to be asked to some of these people is this - what if our coaches were shoving Islam down student athletes' throats? What if they were teaching and imposing the views of the Democratic Party on kids? Would you be as adamant about them speaking their mind? Didn't think so, and don't try to deny it. You'd be in an uproar. Just like not every kid going to Auburn will be a Muslim or a Democrat, not every kid going to Auburn is a Christian. We need to first of all, make sure that our coaches are being fair to those here currently, or potentially, that are not Christians, and also we simply need to demand our coaches do the job they were hired to do in the first place - win and develop players. Maybe one of the reasons we haven't been able to win as much the past few years is because we have had and now have coaches focused on doing other things at their job besides coaching. These coaches need to focus on their job, not imposing an agenda on impressionable kids. That can't be tolerated, regardless of what they're selling and it is very out of line and unprofessional.

DyeHardAllTheWay for whatever reason has been MIA for a few days in the wake of making comments/accusations such as these highlighted above. I'd love to know what type of connections or communication he/she has with our "current" coaching staff and "current" players that would make him so concerned with the direction this new staff is taking this program.

What has continued to entertain me is all the hypothetical speculations about what this staff is doing that cannot be tolerated.... its unbelievable. How can people conclude in less than 6 months that this staff is pushing religion on anyone? Personally, I do not believe they are. I would also be willing to bet that not many, if any, players on Auburn's roster consider themselves to be agnostic or atheist. Indeed, I have no way of knowing that but, I believe a much bigger deal is being made of this than anything the coaches have done warrants.

I agree with you to some extent Vue. But, the OP has made some pointed comments about the current staff that leads me to believe that he/she has direct knowledge of such things, or has direct contact with someone who has been exposed to our coaches imposing a so-called "agenda" on the players. It doesn't really matter to me either way honestly.

The way I see it now, these coaches inherited an effin mess of a team, both mentally and physically. And if it takes someone coming in and leading them in a word of prayer, or offering to have a chaplain or FCA representative to minister to them from time to time, then so be it. No one can force their beliefs on anyone, period. Gus Malzhan will run his program the best way he see's fit, Gene Chizik ran it his way, Tommy Tuberville ran it his way. I believe everyone of those men were men of faith. I also believe that everyone of them had tolerance and understanding for any young man that didn't have the same religious belief's, and they would certainly accomodate any player that didn't/doesn't feel compelled to participate in a prayer or ministry session.

[homersapien 11,373]

The question that needs to be asked to some of these people is this - what if our coaches were shoving Islam down student athletes' throats? What if they were teaching and imposing the views of the Democratic Party on kids? Would you be as adamant about them speaking their mind? Didn't think so, and don't try to deny it. You'd be in an uproar. Just like not every kid going to Auburn will be a Muslim or a Democrat, not every kid going to Auburn is a Christian. We need to first of all, make sure that our coaches are being fair to those here currently, or potentially, that are not Christians, and also we simply need to demand our coaches do the job they were hired to do in the first place - win and develop players. Maybe one of the reasons we haven't been able to win as much the past few years is because we have had and now have coaches focused on doing other things at their job besides coaching. These coaches need to focus on their job, not imposing an agenda on impressionable kids. That can't be tolerated, regardless of what they're selling and it is very out of line and unprofessional.

DyeHardAllTheWay for whatever reason has been MIA for a few days in the wake of making comments/accusations such as these highlighted above. I'd love to know what type of connections or communication he/she has with our "current" coaching staff and "current" players that would make him so concerned with the direction this new staff is taking this program.

What has continued to entertain me is all the hypothetical speculations about what this staff is doing that cannot be tolerated.... its unbelievable. How can people conclude in less than 6 months that this staff is pushing religion on anyone? Personally, I do not believe they are. I would also be willing to bet that not many, if any, players on Auburn's roster consider themselves to be agnostic or atheist. Indeed, I have no way of knowing that but, I believe a much bigger deal is being made of this than anything the coaches have done warrants.

Well certainly not if that was part of the eligibility "screen".

[homersapien 11,373]

The question that needs to be asked to some of these people is this - what if our coaches were shoving Islam down student athletes' throats? What if they were teaching and imposing the views of the Democratic Party on kids? Would you be as adamant about them speaking their mind? Didn't think so, and don't try to deny it. You'd be in an uproar. Just like not every kid going to Auburn will be a Muslim or a Democrat, not every kid going to Auburn is a Christian. We need to first of all, make sure that our coaches are being fair to those here currently, or potentially, that are not Christians, and also we simply need to demand our coaches do the job they were hired to do in the first place - win and develop players. Maybe one of the reasons we haven't been able to win as much the past few years is because we have had and now have coaches focused on doing other things at their job besides coaching. These coaches need to focus on their job, not imposing an agenda on impressionable kids. That can't be tolerated, regardless of what they're selling and it is very out of line and unprofessional.

DyeHardAllTheWay for whatever reason has been MIA for a few days in the wake of making comments/accusations such as these highlighted above. I'd love to know what type of connections or communication he/she has with our "current" coaching staff and "current" players that would make him so concerned with the direction this new staff is taking this program.

What has continued to entertain me is all the hypothetical speculations about what this staff is doing that cannot be tolerated.... its unbelievable. How can people conclude in less than 6 months that this staff is pushing religion on anyone? Personally, I do not believe they are. I would also be willing to bet that not many, if any, players on Auburn's roster consider themselves to be agnostic or atheist. Indeed, I have no way of knowing that but, I believe a much bigger deal is being made of this than anything the coaches have done warrants.

I agree with you to some extent Vue. But, the OP has made some pointed comments about the current staff that leads me to believe that he/she has direct knowledge of such things, or has direct contact with someone who has been exposed to our coaches imposing a so-called "agenda" on the players. It doesn't really matter to me either way honestly.

The way I see it now, these coaches inherited an effin mess of a team, both mentally and physically. And if it takes someone coming in and leading them in a word of prayer, or offering to have a chaplain or FCA representative to minister to them from time to time, then so be it. No one can force their beliefs on anyone, period.....

Absolutely correct.

All they can do is create an atmosphere where individuals feel "different" from "everyone" else.

[stealthyfan 124]

The question that needs to be asked to some of these people is this - what if our coaches were shoving Islam down student athletes' throats? What if they were teaching and imposing the views of the Democratic Party on kids? Would you be as adamant about them speaking their mind? Didn't think so, and don't try to deny it. You'd be in an uproar. Just like not every kid going to Auburn will be a Muslim or a Democrat, not every kid going to Auburn is a Christian. We need to first of all, make sure that our coaches are being fair to those here currently, or potentially, that are not Christians, and also we simply need to demand our coaches do the job they were hired to do in the first place - win and develop players. Maybe one of the reasons we haven't been able to win as much the past few years is because we have had and now have coaches focused on doing other things at their job besides coaching. These coaches need to focus on their job, not imposing an agenda on impressionable kids. That can't be tolerated, regardless of what they're selling and it is very out of line and unprofessional.

DyeHardAllTheWay for whatever reason has been MIA for a few days in the wake of making comments/accusations such as these highlighted above. I'd love to know what type of connections or communication he/she has with our "current" coaching staff and "current" players that would make him so concerned with the direction this new staff is taking this program.

What has continued to entertain me is all the hypothetical speculations about what this staff is doing that cannot be tolerated.... its unbelievable. How can people conclude in less than 6 months that this staff is pushing religion on anyone? Personally, I do not believe they are. I would also be willing to bet that not many, if any, players on Auburn's roster consider themselves to be agnostic or atheist. Indeed, I have no way of knowing that but, I believe a much bigger deal is being made of this than anything the coaches have done warrants.

I agree with you to some extent Vue. But, the OP has made some pointed comments about the current staff that leads me to believe that he/she has direct knowledge of such things, or has direct contact with someone who has been exposed to our coaches imposing a so-called "agenda" on the players. It doesn't really matter to me either way honestly.

The way I see it now, these coaches inherited an effin mess of a team, both mentally and physically. And if it takes someone coming in and leading them in a word of prayer, or offering to have a chaplain or FCA representative to minister to them from time to time, then so be it. No one can force their beliefs on anyone, period.....

Absolutely correct.

All they can do is create an atmosphere where individuals feel "different" from "everyone" else.

+1

[keesler 5,924]

The question that needs to be asked to some of these people is this - what if our coaches were shoving Islam down student athletes' throats? What if they were teaching and imposing the views of the Democratic Party on kids? Would you be as adamant about them speaking their mind? Didn't think so, and don't try to deny it. You'd be in an uproar. Just like not every kid going to Auburn will be a Muslim or a Democrat, not every kid going to Auburn is a Christian. We need to first of all, make sure that our coaches are being fair to those here currently, or potentially, that are not Christians, and also we simply need to demand our coaches do the job they were hired to do in the first place - win and develop players. Maybe one of the reasons we haven't been able to win as much the past few years is because we have had and now have coaches focused on doing other things at their job besides coaching. These coaches need to focus on their job, not imposing an agenda on impressionable kids. That can't be tolerated, regardless of what they're selling and it is very out of line and unprofessional.

DyeHardAllTheWay for whatever reason has been MIA for a few days in the wake of making comments/accusations such as these highlighted above. I'd love to know what type of connections or communication he/she has with our "current" coaching staff and "current" players that would make him so concerned with the direction this new staff is taking this program.

What has continued to entertain me is all the hypothetical speculations about what this staff is doing that cannot be tolerated.... its unbelievable. How can people conclude in less than 6 months that this staff is pushing religion on anyone? Personally, I do not believe they are. I would also be willing to bet that not many, if any, players on Auburn's roster consider themselves to be agnostic or atheist. Indeed, I have no way of knowing that but, I believe a much bigger deal is being made of this than anything the coaches have done warrants.

I agree with you to some extent Vue. But, the OP has made some pointed comments about the current staff that leads me to believe that he/she has direct knowledge of such things, or has direct contact with someone who has been exposed to our coaches imposing a so-called "agenda" on the players. It doesn't really matter to me either way honestly.

The way I see it now, these coaches inherited an effin mess of a team, both mentally and physically. And if it takes someone coming in and leading them in a word of prayer, or offering to have a chaplain or FCA representative to minister to them from time to time, then so be it. No one can force their beliefs on anyone, period.....

Absolutely correct.

All they can do is create an atmosphere where individuals feel "different" from "everyone" else.

Excuse me, we've had some players over the years that have created a toxic atmosphere and they made themselves "different" from everyone else. They damn near ruined the entire football program.

Every program has a roster filled with different individuals, some have tons of tattoo's, some have long hair, some have dredlocks, some are clean cut, some are country boys, some are borderline street thugs, some are Christian/Muslim/Catholic/Jewish/Mormon, some were raised entirely without religion, etc. Hell, we just had straight-laced/Chrisitan/conservative head coach AND we had an asst that looked like a 70's porn star AND we had an asst that wore his hat backwards, waved towels, used foul language, and chest bumped the US President in the White house. I think you get the point I'm trying to make. It takes all kinds of people to make the world go 'round.

We have a new coaching staff that's got to build this team from the ground up again. They are trying to find a way to bring all of this diversity together and build a cohesive team that works together towards a common goal.

I find it odd that we didn't see a thread like this last season when the program was going to hell in a handbasket.

[AU_Tiger_88 417]

The problem with this debate is there are some who are simply too "smart" to fall for the power of believing and the difference it can make in life. They would prefer to win an argument hiding behind the robes of the SCOTUS. To them, just about ANY sort of public acknowledgement of religious faith is simply unacceptable. Funny that I have no problem with those who do not believe or who are agnostic but they sure as hell have a problem with those who do believe. Funny how it works out that way! I don't think this staff has done one thing that would precipitate a 30 page debate but here we are. Oh well...it is what it is!

I don't know who this was specifically meant for but I would have to stick up for keeping religion out of the work place involuntarily. By that I mean that I have had religious debates most of my life as I grew up in the south surrounded by certain religions that if you didn't think their way you were wrong and going to H*!!. I think that if you want to participate in prayer at a school or even to the extent of a work place it should be voluntary. I get tired of the holier than you crowd as I see them preaching it on Sundays but not living it the rest of the week. Look you don't have to be religious or a person of faith to have high morals and a good character. I know a good many people who exemplify that but don't believe in God. I also get tired of religion bashing so I guess that I am in the middle of the debate. I don't think it should be used in selection material for a job at a public university but unfortunately some people see it that way. People are people so select the best person for the job no matter what the faith. Oh, and when people see others bashing other religions stand up for those that are getting bashed as a lot of ignorance and intolerance is out in this world on other religions as people don't take the time to understand the other side. I know some who don't believe in religion stand up for other folks when their religion was getting bashed...hard to imagine I know but that person studied religions and decided it wasn't for him but wouldn't allow people to speak falsely about other religions. No hiding behind SCOTUS for me but then again, I am a man of faith but don't wear it on my sleeve when you meet me in public...but growing up one of the first questions that I got from meeting new people is what church do you go to? as that was a defining issue...

[TheBlueVue 177]

The problem with this debate is there are some who are simply too "smart" to fall for the power of believing and the difference it can make in life. They would prefer to win an argument hiding behind the robes of the SCOTUS. To them, just about ANY sort of public acknowledgement of religious faith is simply unacceptable. Funny that I have no problem with those who do not believe or who are agnostic but they sure as hell have a problem with those who do believe. Funny how it works out that way! I don't think this staff has done one thing that would precipitate a 30 page debate but here we are. Oh well...it is what it is!

I don't know who this was specifically meant for but I would have to stick up for keeping religion out of the work place involuntarily. By that I mean that I have had religious debates most of my life as I grew up in the south surrounded by certain religions that if you didn't think their way you were wrong and going to H*!!. I think that if you want to participate in prayer at a school or even to the extent of a work place it should be voluntary. I get tired of the holier than you crowd as I see them preaching it on Sundays but not living it the rest of the week. Look you don't have to be religious or a person of faith to have high morals and a good character. I know a good many people who exemplify that but don't believe in God. I also get tired of religion bashing so I guess that I am in the middle of the debate. I don't think it should be used in selection material for a job at a public university but unfortunately some people see it that way. People are people so select the best person for the job no matter what the faith. Oh, and when people see others bashing other religions stand up for those that are getting bashed as a lot of ignorance and intolerance is out in this world on other religions as people don't take the time to understand the other side. I know some who don't believe in religion stand up for other folks when their religion was getting bashed...hard to imagine I know but that person studied religions and decided it wasn't for him but wouldn't allow people to speak falsely about other religions. No hiding behind SCOTUS for me but then again, I am a man of faith but don't wear it on my sleeve when you meet me in public...but growing up one of the first questions that I got from meeting new people is what church do you go to? as that was a defining issue...

I would imagine most here can identify with something in your post. By contrast, I'm not religious in any sense of the word. I too was raised in the south and went to church and had the same reaction to those in the pews every Sunday who didn't particularly exemplify the teachings in their life. Bottom line here is the question...Is Auburn's Athletic Dept too religious? The debate has gone way beyond simply addressing the question posed in the OP. It has gotten into all sorts of hypothetical imaginings about what this staff is doing and has elicited more than just a little manufactured righteous indignation. I'm liked Kessler, who above rhetorically asked, "Why didn't we see a thread like this last year when the program was going to hell in a hand basket?" I have no problem with what this staff is doing. I do not believe they are proselytizing in the work place but do not fault them for not being gun shy about sharing their beliefs. They have that right. Also, so much has been made of how what they do would affect atheist and agnostic players and, I will say once again, I would be surprised if there were more than a half dozen players on Auburn's roster that could provide a concise definition of agnosticism. With regard for the atheists, I would guess that the overwhelming majority of these kids haven't concluded that for themselves at this stage in their lives as most aren't that heavily into such serious questions as to what they truly believe. They want to play ball and have some fun! As far as hiring practices, I also do not believe coaches are being hired because they are Christian but I don't think that's being held against them either. This thread has become comical in so many ways because so much has been made of nothing...IMO and I'm entitled to it whether anyone agrees with it or not!

[homersapien 11,373]

The question that needs to be asked to some of these people is this - what if our coaches were shoving Islam down student athletes' throats? What if they were teaching and imposing the views of the Democratic Party on kids? Would you be as adamant about them speaking their mind? Didn't think so, and don't try to deny it. You'd be in an uproar. Just like not every kid going to Auburn will be a Muslim or a Democrat, not every kid going to Auburn is a Christian. We need to first of all, make sure that our coaches are being fair to those here currently, or potentially, that are not Christians, and also we simply need to demand our coaches do the job they were hired to do in the first place - win and develop players. Maybe one of the reasons we haven't been able to win as much the past few years is because we have had and now have coaches focused on doing other things at their job besides coaching. These coaches need to focus on their job, not imposing an agenda on impressionable kids. That can't be tolerated, regardless of what they're selling and it is very out of line and unprofessional.

DyeHardAllTheWay for whatever reason has been MIA for a few days in the wake of making comments/accusations such as these highlighted above. I'd love to know what type of connections or communication he/she has with our "current" coaching staff and "current" players that would make him so concerned with the direction this new staff is taking this program.

What has continued to entertain me is all the hypothetical speculations about what this staff is doing that cannot be tolerated.... its unbelievable. How can people conclude in less than 6 months that this staff is pushing religion on anyone? Personally, I do not believe they are. I would also be willing to bet that not many, if any, players on Auburn's roster consider themselves to be agnostic or atheist. Indeed, I have no way of knowing that but, I believe a much bigger deal is being made of this than anything the coaches have done warrants.

I agree with you to some extent Vue. But, the OP has made some pointed comments about the current staff that leads me to believe that he/she has direct knowledge of such things, or has direct contact with someone who has been exposed to our coaches imposing a so-called "agenda" on the players. It doesn't really matter to me either way honestly.

The way I see it now, these coaches inherited an effin mess of a team, both mentally and physically. And if it takes someone coming in and leading them in a word of prayer, or offering to have a chaplain or FCA representative to minister to them from time to time, then so be it. No one can force their beliefs on anyone, period.....

Absolutely correct.

All they can do is create an atmosphere where individuals feel "different" from "everyone" else.

Excuse me, we've had some players over the years that have created a toxic atmosphere and they made themselves "different" from everyone else. They damn near ruined the entire football program.

Every program has a roster filled with different individuals, some have tons of tattoo's, some have long hair, some have dredlocks, some are clean cut, some are country boys, some are borderline street thugs, some are Christian/Muslim/Catholic/Jewish/Mormon, some were raised entirely without religion, etc. Hell, we just had straight-laced/Chrisitan/conservative head coach AND we had an asst that looked like a 70's porn star AND we had an asst that wore his hat backwards, waved towels, used foul language, and chest bumped the US President in the White house. I think you get the point I'm trying to make. It takes all kinds of people to make the world go 'round.

We have a new coaching staff that's got to build this team from the ground up again. They are trying to find a way to bring all of this diversity together and build a cohesive team that works together towards a common goal.

I find it odd that we didn't see a thread like this last season when the program was going to hell in a handbasket.

Why "excuse me"? You didn't rebut anything I said. I don't get your point. Perhaps you didn't get mine?

[homersapien 11,373]

The problem with this debate is there are some who are simply too "smart" to fall for the power of believing and the difference it can make in life. They would prefer to win an argument hiding behind the robes of the SCOTUS. To them, just about ANY sort of public acknowledgement of religious faith is simply unacceptable. Funny that I have no problem with those who do not believe or who are agnostic but they sure as hell have a problem with those who do believe. Funny how it works out that way! I don't think this staff has done one thing that would precipitate a 30 page debate but here we are. Oh well...it is what it is!

I don't know who this was specifically meant for but I would have to stick up for keeping religion out of the work place involuntarily. By that I mean that I have had religious debates most of my life as I grew up in the south surrounded by certain religions that if you didn't think their way you were wrong and going to H*!!. I think that if you want to participate in prayer at a school or even to the extent of a work place it should be voluntary. I get tired of the holier than you crowd as I see them preaching it on Sundays but not living it the rest of the week. Look you don't have to be religious or a person of faith to have high morals and a good character. I know a good many people who exemplify that but don't believe in God. I also get tired of religion bashing so I guess that I am in the middle of the debate. I don't think it should be used in selection material for a job at a public university but unfortunately some people see it that way. People are people so select the best person for the job no matter what the faith. Oh, and when people see others bashing other religions stand up for those that are getting bashed as a lot of ignorance and intolerance is out in this world on other religions as people don't take the time to understand the other side. I know some who don't believe in religion stand up for other folks when their religion was getting bashed...hard to imagine I know but that person studied religions and decided it wasn't for him but wouldn't allow people to speak falsely about other religions. No hiding behind SCOTUS for me but then again, I am a man of faith but don't wear it on my sleeve when you meet me in public...but growing up one of the first questions that I got from meeting new people is what church do you go to? as that was a defining issue...

I would imagine most here can identify with something in your post. By contrast, I'm not religious in any sense of the word. I too was raised in the south and went to church and had the same reaction to those in the pews every Sunday who didn't particularly exemplify the teachings in their life. Bottom line here is the question...Is Auburn's Athletic Dept too religious? The debate has gone way beyond simply addressing the question posed in the OP. It has gotten into all sorts of hypothetical imaginings about what this staff is doing and has elicited more than just a little manufactured righteous indignation. I'm liked Kessler, who above rhetorically asked, "Why didn't we see a thread like this last year when the program was going to hell in a hand basket?" I have no problem with what this staff is doing. I do not believe they are proselytizing in the work place but do not fault them for not being gun shy about sharing their beliefs. They have that right. Also, so much has been made of how what they do would affect atheist and agnostic players and, I will say once again, I would be surprised if there were more than a half dozen players on Auburn's roster that could provide a concise definition of agnosticism. With regard for the atheists, I would guess that the overwhelming majority of these kids haven't concluded that for themselves at this stage in their lives as most aren't that heavily into such serious questions as to what they truly believe. They want to play ball and have some fun! As far as hiring practices, I also do not believe coaches are being hired because they are Christian but I don't think that's being held against them either. This thread has become comical in so many ways because so much has been made of nothing...IMO and I'm entitled to it whether anyone agrees with it or not!

Your first post suggested that some participates in this discussion were doing so in "bad faith" (no pun intended) as they were motivated by pure anti-religion. I think that is an unfair statement inference and if made, should be backed up with examples.

I agree that the original topic could have been reworded a little differently, but I think (almost) everyone understands what we are talking about.

And the discussion probably has evolved from considering specifically the last staff to consideration of the current - or actually any staff at any school (i.e.: a more generalized discussion).

But I don't see any harm in that. Just the opposite. Others seem to agree.

[TheBlueVue 177]

The problem with this debate is there are some who are simply too "smart" to fall for the power of believing and the difference it can make in life. They would prefer to win an argument hiding behind the robes of the SCOTUS. To them, just about ANY sort of public acknowledgement of religious faith is simply unacceptable. Funny that I have no problem with those who do not believe or who are agnostic but they sure as hell have a problem with those who do believe. Funny how it works out that way! I don't think this staff has done one thing that would precipitate a 30 page debate but here we are. Oh well...it is what it is!

I don't know who this was specifically meant for but I would have to stick up for keeping religion out of the work place involuntarily. By that I mean that I have had religious debates most of my life as I grew up in the south surrounded by certain religions that if you didn't think their way you were wrong and going to H*!!. I think that if you want to participate in prayer at a school or even to the extent of a work place it should be voluntary. I get tired of the holier than you crowd as I see them preaching it on Sundays but not living it the rest of the week. Look you don't have to be religious or a person of faith to have high morals and a good character. I know a good many people who exemplify that but don't believe in God. I also get tired of religion bashing so I guess that I am in the middle of the debate. I don't think it should be used in selection material for a job at a public university but unfortunately some people see it that way. People are people so select the best person for the job no matter what the faith. Oh, and when people see others bashing other religions stand up for those that are getting bashed as a lot of ignorance and intolerance is out in this world on other religions as people don't take the time to understand the other side. I know some who don't believe in religion stand up for other folks when their religion was getting bashed...hard to imagine I know but that person studied religions and decided it wasn't for him but wouldn't allow people to speak falsely about other religions. No hiding behind SCOTUS for me but then again, I am a man of faith but don't wear it on my sleeve when you meet me in public...but growing up one of the first questions that I got from meeting new people is what church do you go to? as that was a defining issue...

I would imagine most here can identify with something in your post. By contrast, I'm not religious in any sense of the word. I too was raised in the south and went to church and had the same reaction to those in the pews every Sunday who didn't particularly exemplify the teachings in their life. Bottom line here is the question...Is Auburn's Athletic Dept too religious? The debate has gone way beyond simply addressing the question posed in the OP. It has gotten into all sorts of hypothetical imaginings about what this staff is doing and has elicited more than just a little manufactured righteous indignation. I'm liked Kessler, who above rhetorically asked, "Why didn't we see a thread like this last year when the program was going to hell in a hand basket?" I have no problem with what this staff is doing. I do not believe they are proselytizing in the work place but do not fault them for not being gun shy about sharing their beliefs. They have that right. Also, so much has been made of how what they do would affect atheist and agnostic players and, I will say once again, I would be surprised if there were more than a half dozen players on Auburn's roster that could provide a concise definition of agnosticism. With regard for the atheists, I would guess that the overwhelming majority of these kids haven't concluded that for themselves at this stage in their lives as most aren't that heavily into such serious questions as to what they truly believe. They want to play ball and have some fun! As far as hiring practices, I also do not believe coaches are being hired because they are Christian but I don't think that's being held against them either. This thread has become comical in so many ways because so much has been made of nothing...IMO and I'm entitled to it whether anyone agrees with it or not!

Your first post suggested that some participates in this discussion were doing so in "bad faith" (no pun intended) as they were motivated by pure anti-religion. I think that is an unfair statement and if made, should be backed up with examples.

I agree that the original topic could have been reworded a little differently, but I think (almost) everyone understands what we are talking about.

And the discussion probably has evolved from considering specifically the last staff to consideration of the current - or actually any staff at any school (i.e.: a more generalized discussion).

But I don't see any harm in that. Just the opposite. Others seem to agree.

Maybe you could point out specifically where I said anyone's post was entered in bad faith or simply, as you put it, motivated by pure anti-religion? Are you compelled to add your own words to my posts to create an argument that you can refute?

[homersapien 11,373]

The problem with this debate is there are some who are simply too "smart" to fall for the power of believing and the difference it can make in life. They would prefer to win an argument hiding behind the robes of the SCOTUS. To them, just about ANY sort of public acknowledgement of religious faith is simply unacceptable. Funny that I have no problem with those who do not believe or who are agnostic but they sure as hell have a problem with those who do believe. Funny how it works out that way! I don't think this staff has done one thing that would precipitate a 30 page debate but here we are. Oh well...it is what it is!

I don't know who this was specifically meant for but I would have to stick up for keeping religion out of the work place involuntarily. By that I mean that I have had religious debates most of my life as I grew up in the south surrounded by certain religions that if you didn't think their way you were wrong and going to H*!!. I think that if you want to participate in prayer at a school or even to the extent of a work place it should be voluntary. I get tired of the holier than you crowd as I see them preaching it on Sundays but not living it the rest of the week. Look you don't have to be religious or a person of faith to have high morals and a good character. I know a good many people who exemplify that but don't believe in God. I also get tired of religion bashing so I guess that I am in the middle of the debate. I don't think it should be used in selection material for a job at a public university but unfortunately some people see it that way. People are people so select the best person for the job no matter what the faith. Oh, and when people see others bashing other religions stand up for those that are getting bashed as a lot of ignorance and intolerance is out in this world on other religions as people don't take the time to understand the other side. I know some who don't believe in religion stand up for other folks when their religion was getting bashed...hard to imagine I know but that person studied religions and decided it wasn't for him but wouldn't allow people to speak falsely about other religions. No hiding behind SCOTUS for me but then again, I am a man of faith but don't wear it on my sleeve when you meet me in public...but growing up one of the first questions that I got from meeting new people is what church do you go to? as that was a defining issue...

I would imagine most here can identify with something in your post. By contrast, I'm not religious in any sense of the word. I too was raised in the south and went to church and had the same reaction to those in the pews every Sunday who didn't particularly exemplify the teachings in their life. Bottom line here is the question...Is Auburn's Athletic Dept too religious? The debate has gone way beyond simply addressing the question posed in the OP. It has gotten into all sorts of hypothetical imaginings about what this staff is doing and has elicited more than just a little manufactured righteous indignation. I'm liked Kessler, who above rhetorically asked, "Why didn't we see a thread like this last year when the program was going to hell in a hand basket?" I have no problem with what this staff is doing. I do not believe they are proselytizing in the work place but do not fault them for not being gun shy about sharing their beliefs. They have that right. Also, so much has been made of how what they do would affect atheist and agnostic players and, I will say once again, I would be surprised if there were more than a half dozen players on Auburn's roster that could provide a concise definition of agnosticism. With regard for the atheists, I would guess that the overwhelming majority of these kids haven't concluded that for themselves at this stage in their lives as most aren't that heavily into such serious questions as to what they truly believe. They want to play ball and have some fun! As far as hiring practices, I also do not believe coaches are being hired because they are Christian but I don't think that's being held against them either. This thread has become comical in so many ways because so much has been made of nothing...IMO and I'm entitled to it whether anyone agrees with it or not!

Your first post suggested that some participates in this discussion were doing so in "bad faith" (no pun intended) as they were motivated by pure anti-religion. I think that is an unfair statement and if made, should be backed up with examples.

I agree that the original topic could have been reworded a little differently, but I think (almost) everyone understands what we are talking about.

And the discussion probably has evolved from considering specifically the last staff to consideration of the current - or actually any staff at any school (i.e.: a more generalized discussion).

But I don't see any harm in that. Just the opposite. Others seem to agree.

Maybe you could point out specifically where I said anyone's post was entered in bad faith or simply, as you put it, motivated by pure anti-religion? Are you compelled to add your own words to my posts to create an argument that you can refute?

Sorry but I thought it was obvious that I was paraphrasing. I thought my paraphrase was more or less accurate, but I will withdraw it if you think it is unfair. You didn't specifically say anything in my paraphrase (which is what makes it a paraphrase).

Regardless of how you would prefer to interpret it, what I was referring to is this:

there are some who are simply too "smart" to fall for the power of believing and the difference it can make in life. They would prefer to win an argument hiding behind the robes of the SCOTUS. To them, just about ANY sort of public acknowledgement of religious faith is simply unacceptable.

[TheBlueVue 177]

That's what you took from that? Good grief, son! You are looking for an argument aren't you.....religion is more about a practice than it is about beliefs. You're a little to quick to read into things that you want to "believe" are in opposition to your position...whatever that might be. Here's a tip, just for you...if you'll change the way you look at things...you'll be surprised how much the things you're looking at will change!

[Dixie1860 27]

(Here is something I haven't said before) I agree with all of your posts in this thread TBV! I have stayed out of it but I could not agree with you any more than I do.

[homersapien 11,373]

That's what you took from that? Good grief, son! You are looking for an argument aren't you.....religion is more about a practice than it is about beliefs. You're a little to quick to read into things that you want to "believe" are in opposition to your position...whatever that might be. Here's a tip, just for you...if you'll change the way you look at things...you'll be surprised how much the things you're looking at will change!

Why yes. That is exactly what I took from that. But like I said, if it is wrong, then I'll take my paraphrase off the table.

You suggested some on this forum are "too smart to fall for the power of believing" (a very snarky and passive-aggressive way of denigrating non-believers).

I am not exactly sure what you meant by "hiding behind the robes of the SCOTUS" but it sounded like another snarky way of suggesting these people don't have sincere personal views of their own in the matter.

Finally you said: "To them, just about ANY sort of public acknowledgement of religious faith is simply unacceptable". Which implies these folks are motivated by a simple scorn of religious belief in general.

And the only "argument I am looking for" (kind of a strange thing to say in a debate) is to challenge the points you made in your own words. If I misinterpreted them, set me straight.

A "son", you take the condescending attitude and shove it.

Considering my age (and your posts), I should be calling you "son".

[Dixie1860 27]

[telling tiger 156]

That SCOTUS you refer to has a somewhat conservative majority and is MUCH more likey to vote the way you appear to prefer, if reality is to be considered. Justice Scalia as an example is well known, highly conservative and traditional Catholic. It is still their job to allow for majority rights without overrunning the rights of a minority. Some people just don't like that, but it is a great part of a democracy.

[telling tiger 156]

Different is not crazy. Being insistent that others adopt your viewpoint is equally crazy if any are.

[TheBlueVue 177]

The problem you have is your slanted interpretations. Religion and public acknowledgment of same are two entirely different topics. Let help you out....I consider myself a Christian and thus a believer but I never publicly acknowledge that in the work place. Those are 2 different topics but BTW..I don't care if someone feels compelled to announce their Christianity or their atheism...in case you missed it both of those are beliefs. Your last comment provides a pretty good indication that you take yourself AND your points of view entirely too seriously....son! I would like to add that I don't believe this is a right and/or wrong debate. People are entitled to believe whatever they wish without fear of reprisal. My comments are primarily directed at answering the question in the OP and is my opinion.

[homersapien 11,373]

The problem you have is your slanted interpretations. Religion and public acknowledgment of same are two entirely different topics. Let help you out....I consider myself a Christian and thus a believer but I never publicly acknowledge that in the work place. Those are 2 different topics but BTW..I don't care if someone feels compelled to announce their Christianity or their atheism...in case you missed it both of those are beliefs. Your last comment provides a pretty good indication that you take yourself AND your points of view entirely too seriously....son! I would like to add that I don't believe this is a right and/or wrong debate. People are entitled to believe whatever they wish without fear of reprisal. My comments are primarily directed at answering the question in the OP and is my opinion.

Well you are still free to clarify or correct my interpretation of your exact words (which you have yet to do).

And yes, I do take my feelings about this seriously. It's a serious and sensitive topic. I don't "fire from the hip" in such threads. (Well, at least rarely).

Perhaps you should take your posts more seriously.

[Dixie1860 27]

Different is not crazy. Being insistent that others adopt your viewpoint is equally crazy if any are.

I agree tt. My was aimed at this whole thread. I knew I should have never even opened it to read.

[telling tiger 156]

The thread is fine, if people can't control their emotive responses, they shouldn't participate. A demand will always be met with defiance. Hasn't failed yet.

[Dixie1860 27]

The thread is fine, if people can't control their emotive responses, they shouldn't participate. A demand will always be met with defiance. Hasn't failed yet.

No it hasn't. Still has no place in the AU Football forum IMO. I guess since they included the "AU Football" in the OP it qualifies but what it has to do with how we play the game is still yet to be shown.