Patience and the modern Offensive Coordinator

[juscAUse 1]

This is not meant to be critical, just an honest question. Do you guys and gals think todays OCs have the patience the coaches had in the past? Not just Gus, but almost all todays coaches have scripted plays to start the game. It almost seems to me (and the next play I call in a game will be the first!) that the modern coach will rarely, if ever, deviate from the scripted plan, even if something is obviously working better than expected. Last night, LSU rarely stopped anything between the tackles, yet made no move to bring the safety up to stop it, as far as I could tell. They simply waited for us to call ourselves away from it, and we did, IMHO. I can see the old HC going to the OC and saying something like 'run the *&%# ball between the tackles until they stop it!' I'd like to hear your thoughts, especially from the old guys who remember the days where if you couldn't stop the dive or the FB up the middle, you would see it all day. I'm not saying the OCs are dumb. I almost think at times that they are too smart, maybe. Does this make any sense?

[AURocketman 73]

And I thought we ran when we should have passed. Especially when LSU stuffed us and we needed to save clock.

I figure the coaches know the players better than I do. I've seen Marshall make great passes and I've seen bad. Easy to tell after play but still struggle with determining before play.

[TheBlueVue 177]

I found myself doing a little second guessing too but Gus is the man calling the plays. I just didn't think he helped the team much in some instances last night. I'll never understand his penchant to go to a deep route on 3rd and manageable distances like 3rd and 4 or 5 yards.

[Metalsinger418 88]

I just don't get when you get multiple first downs in a row running the ball and then you decide to get cute. It frustrates me to no end.

[vatz22au 142]

Had those plays been executed and gone for long yards we would all be singing a different tune and praising Malzahn's genius...

Don't get me wrong, there were times I thought we should've kept pounding the ball. That being said I'm not going to really doubt the playcalling. They know more than I do and have had success. Also, I don't believe Auburn follows a "Script" as much as you think, if at all.

[AuburnFanatic10 0]

Yeah it was almost like they were trying too hard with the play calling.

[WarEagle1983 2,185]

I just don't get when you get multiple first downs in a row running the ball and then you decide to get cute. It frustrates me to no end.

It's just frustrating period. I'd like us to try to stretch the field before going to all those cute plays...screens/reverses/wildcat stuff. It's not effective when we have not established a down a field threat. 2 or 3 deep throws a game doesn't stretch the field enough. We need to get some 10-15 yard passes completed and i think CJ working the middle will help open things up as well.

Stop running the freaking wildcat with KF when we're running the ball well; it serves no purpose and messes up the flow of either the RB or Nick. Nick has to get better but 1 yard passes in the flat for 2 or 3 yards it not going to get it done in the SEC esp. without us stretching the field. Get the ball DOWN the freaking field and goodness sakes pick up the tempo. Where is the HUNH? We did it in the 3rd and 4th quarter but not in the 1st half? I understand getting first downs helps the tempo but just like we started out fast on the very first offensive play in the 2nd half we could've did that in the 2nd half. Nick plays much better when he doesn't have a lot of time to think but just react. We get lined up fast but it takes us too long to snap the ball. Hopefully these things and others will be cleaned up during the bye week.

[auburn4ever 1,266]

When are we gong to that "true" hurry up offense that we saw in 2010? Everyone I've talked to says their wondering when we'll see it. As for the defense, Ellis' D had a real hard stopping or even slowing down anything that LSU had.

[WarEagle1983 2,185]

When are we gong to that "true" hurry up offense that we saw in 2010? Everyone I've talked to says their wondering when we'll see it. As for the defense, Ellis' D had a real hard stopping or even slowing down anything that LSU had.

Hope we get to see it soon because we're a much better offense when we are in the hurry up offense. Many comment about getting 1st downs to really get it going and i completely understand that but i still say that we should start out fast from the first snap and not wait until we get a first down.

[doc4aday 1,887]

I remember CGM saying that the refs would not spot the ball when they should have, at it caused a lot of problems with running the HUNH. Was this going on last night? I thought that it happened on several possessions. Is there anything that could be done to get the refs to spot the ball quicker? I would like to know if anyone else saw this happening last night?

[AU-24 3,118]

I remember CGM saying that the refs would not spot the ball when they should have, at it caused a lot of problems with running the HUNH. Was this going on last night? I thought that it happened on several possessions. Is there anything that could be done to get the refs to spot the ball quicker? I would like to know if anyone else saw this happening last night?

When Gus was seen yelling on screen to "hurry-up" he was speaking and getting frustrated with the officials not the players. The broadcasters missed this point once or twice! Gus can't go quite as fast as he would like as Nick Marshall has only had 7 weeks with the team. Then when Gus wanted to hit the gas pedal after a first down, it took the 60 year old, 300 lbs refs too long to spot the ball, move the chains, and wind the clock.

[WarEagle1983 2,185]

I remember CGM saying that the refs would not spot the ball when they should have, at it caused a lot of problems with running the HUNH. Was this going on last night? I thought that it happened on several possessions. Is there anything that could be done to get the refs to spot the ball quicker? I would like to know if anyone else saw this happening last night?

I don't think it has alot to do with the officials because although we do line up quick it takes too long to snap the ball when the ref does spot the ball. We line up fast but it takes us way too long for the ball to be snapped considering we're suppose to be a fast tempo offense. Our last drive was very evident of that. Sure we were moving the ball until the mistakes happened in the red zone but we were still wasting valuable time off the clock on that drive with taking too long to snap the ball. I understand that at times we'll have to make adjustments but it's a regular occurrence at not going fast. We even had a movement penalty because the Olineman was in his stance for too long. Line up quick.....wait 12-15 seconds before the ball is snapped. We're slowing ourselves down.

[AU64 10,122]

Just an observation about play calling but seems I read somewhere that generally any given play (except in a special circumstance) is not called in a vacuum or as a stand alone decision. Supposedly there is linkage involved and many plays or offensive sets are selected to set the table for another play in the sequence or perhaps later in the game....to see how the defense reacts, etc. maybe run the same actual play from a different look.

For example, I doubt that LSU was really looking for that first TD run by their thug running back to spring free since usually that kind of call is good for about 3-5 yards.....so until AU showed their OC that we could stop it, LSU could run it every now and then with great confidence....but not often enough that stopping it would be a top priority. By the time we found the solution, we were down 3 TDs.

And note also that once AU realized that the could run Tre up the middle, Gus continued to do it most of the second half from different looks. Auburn managed more than 450 yards against LSU which IMO was quite an accomplishment for our offense.....and a huge improvement from last season.

[TheBlueVue 177]

Just an observation about play calling but seems I read somewhere that generally any given play (except in a special circumstance) is not called in a vacuum or as a stand alone decision. Supposedly there is linkage involved and many plays or offensive sets are selected to set the table for another play in the sequence or perhaps later in the game....to see how the defense reacts, etc. maybe run the same actual play from a different look.

For example, I doubt that LSU was really looking for that first TD run by their thug running back to spring free since usually that kind of call is good for about 3-5 yards.....so until AU showed their OC that we could stop it, LSU could run it every now and then with great confidence....but not often enough that stopping it would be a top priority. By the time we found the solution, we were down 3 TDs.

And note also that once AU realized that the could run Tre up the middle, Gus continued to do it most of the second half from different looks. Auburn managed more than 450 yards against LSU which IMO was quite an accomplishment for our offense.....and a huge improvement from last season.

Some plays are run just to break tendencies. Otherwise, an OC would become extremely predictable given the down and distance

[juscAUse 1]

Just an observation about play calling but seems I read somewhere that generally any given play (except in a special circumstance) is not called in a vacuum or as a stand alone decision. Supposedly there is linkage involved and many plays or offensive sets are selected to set the table for another play in the sequence or perhaps later in the game....to see how the defense reacts, etc. maybe run the same actual play from a different look.

For example, I doubt that LSU was really looking for that first TD run by their thug running back to spring free since usually that kind of call is good for about 3-5 yards.....so until AU showed their OC that we could stop it, LSU could run it every now and then with great confidence....but not often enough that stopping it would be a top priority. By the time we found the solution, we were down 3 TDs.

And note also that once AU realized that the could run Tre up the middle, Gus continued to do it most of the second half from different looks. Auburn managed more than 450 yards against LSU which IMO was quite an accomplishment for our offense.....and a huge improvement from last season.

Yes I see your point. And once again, I was not criticizing Gus. I want him as our coach. Just a thought. I also was not totally focused on Gus and AU. It is just a trend I noticed in football in general over time. The old coaches would make you commit extra bodies to stop a play and then try to beat you deep if they could, or run some counter off of the play. I'm not sure I prefer one way over the other, just thinking out loud. And just to make sure some on here understand...I do not want another coach and do not expect miracles after last year. Heck after the first half of the LSU game, I am very pleasantly surprised at the job the staff has done with this team. Nothing but blue skies ahead! WDE.

[autigeremt 6,776]

We are getting there. Patience needs to be had by all.

[gman87 398]

Tre was running like he was on fire from the get go. Seemed Gus was intent on getting the passing game ramped up despite the monsoon and Tre's running. If he were honest, I would bet he would rethink some of those calls in the first quarter but as someone else said, if we spring one of those WR screens for a score as LSU did then he looks like a genius.

[AUEngineer2016 407]

I just don't get when you get multiple first downs in a row running the ball and then you decide to get cute. It frustrates me to no end.

It's just frustrating period. I'd like us to try to stretch the field before going to all those cute plays...screens/reverses/wildcat stuff. It's not effective when we have not established a down a field threat. 2 or 3 deep throws a game doesn't stretch the field enough. We need to get some 10-15 yard passes completed and i think CJ working the middle will help open things up as well.

Stop running the freaking wildcat with KF when we're running the ball well; it serves no purpose and messes up the flow of either the RB or Nick. Nick has to get better but 1 yard passes in the flat for 2 or 3 yards it not going to get it done in the SEC esp. without us stretching the field. Get the ball DOWN the freaking field and goodness sakes pick up the tempo. Where is the HUNH? We did it in the 3rd and 4th quarter but not in the 1st half? I understand getting first downs helps the tempo but just like we started out fast on the very first offensive play in the 2nd half we could've did that in the 2nd half. Nick plays much better when he doesn't have a lot of time to think but just react. We get lined up fast but it takes us too long to snap the ball. Hopefully these things and others will be cleaned up during the bye week.

We can't open up the game consistently airing it out. Defenses will notice that and make adjustments, which will lead to interceptions.

We may be running the Wildcat with KF and other RBs because it gives Gus and Rhett a chance to have a chat with their players without taking a timeout.

NM had 2 huge throws to Coates that stretched the field against LSU. Many of our read-option plays work because the defense has to account for the bubble screens, the deep ball, etc. Gus's offense is based on forcing the defense into a mistake and then exploiting it.

On the HUNH: We ran 85 plays on Saturday. I don't know if you noticed, but the LSU players were gassed at the end of the game, and we looked fresh. We don't always need to snap it as soon as we get lined up, one thing that the HUNH does is get the offense to the line quickly so that the defense can't substitute. That leaves the players on the field for a LONG time and wears them out. We don't go consistently fast or consistently slow- we mix it up so that the defense never quite knows what is coming. It also allows us to see how they are lining up and make our play call accordingly.

Remember- For a lot of the guys on offense, this is the first time that they have started a big game in a hostile environment. (NM may have played in big games while at UGA, but there's a difference between that and leading the offense). I can imagine that would take some getting used to, and that they might be a little nervous going into the game. Once we settled down and made adjustments on D, we not only played with em, but out scored em.

Be patient- give Gus time to install his system. It isn't going to happen by snapping his fingers, it's going to take time.

[AU64 10,122]

Be patient- give Gus time to install his system. It isn't going to happen by snapping his fingers, it's going to take time

So true...but there is little patience on this board....and little tolerance for imperfection by our kids.

AU is taking the necessary baby steps to improve the football program...and we have a pretty long ways to go....but IMO we are on the way.

[juscAUse 1]

Be patient- give Gus time to install his system. It isn't going to happen by snapping his fingers, it's going to take time

So true...but there is little patience on this board....and little tolerance for imperfection by our kids.

AU is taking the necessary baby steps to improve the football program...and we have a pretty long ways to go....but IMO we are on the way.

I was trying to have a discussion about football in general. I have infinite patience when I see my team getting better, and I most certainly see that this is happening at AU. Just instilling fight in this team is a major accomplishment, and I am suitably impressed with our staff. What I was simply stating is that OCs today in general run systems, and the old timers tended to stay with what was working until you stopped it. If anyone thinks I have 'little patience' or 'tolerance for our kids imperfections' they are dead wrong! I never coached or played-and I cheer and support every coach and player in orange and blue. And I have for longer than some of you have been on this earth.

[WarEagle1983 2,185]

I just don't get when you get multiple first downs in a row running the ball and then you decide to get cute. It frustrates me to no end.

It's just frustrating period. I'd like us to try to stretch the field before going to all those cute plays...screens/reverses/wildcat stuff. It's not effective when we have not established a down a field threat. 2 or 3 deep throws a game doesn't stretch the field enough. We need to get some 10-15 yard passes completed and i think CJ working the middle will help open things up as well.

Stop running the freaking wildcat with KF when we're running the ball well; it serves no purpose and messes up the flow of either the RB or Nick. Nick has to get better but 1 yard passes in the flat for 2 or 3 yards it not going to get it done in the SEC esp. without us stretching the field. Get the ball DOWN the freaking field and goodness sakes pick up the tempo. Where is the HUNH? We did it in the 3rd and 4th quarter but not in the 1st half? I understand getting first downs helps the tempo but just like we started out fast on the very first offensive play in the 2nd half we could've did that in the 2nd half. Nick plays much better when he doesn't have a lot of time to think but just react. We get lined up fast but it takes us too long to snap the ball. Hopefully these things and others will be cleaned up during the bye week.

We can't open up the game consistently airing it out. Defenses will notice that and make adjustments, which will lead to interceptions.

We may be running the Wildcat with KF and other RBs because it gives Gus and Rhett a chance to have a chat with their players without taking a timeout.

NM had 2 huge throws to Coates that stretched the field against LSU. Many of our read-option plays work because the defense has to account for the bubble screens, the deep ball, etc. Gus's offense is based on forcing the defense into a mistake and then exploiting it.

On the HUNH: We ran 85 plays on Saturday. I don't know if you noticed, but the LSU players were gassed at the end of the game, and we looked fresh. We don't always need to snap it as soon as we get lined up, one thing that the HUNH does is get the offense to the line quickly so that the defense can't substitute. That leaves the players on the field for a LONG time and wears them out. We don't go consistently fast or consistently slow- we mix it up so that the defense never quite knows what is coming. It also allows us to see how they are lining up and make our play call accordingly.

Remember- For a lot of the guys on offense, this is the first time that they have started a big game in a hostile environment. (NM may have played in big games while at UGA, but there's a difference between that and leading the offense). I can imagine that would take some getting used to, and that they might be a little nervous going into the game. Once we settled down and made adjustments on D, we not only played with em, but out scored em.

Be patient- give Gus time to install his system. It isn't going to happen by snapping his fingers, it's going to take time.

I'm not asking for an air raid but we have to do more than screens/sweeps and the common 2 or 3 long balls to open up our offense. We don't work the middle of the field enough when we have a freak of an athlete in CJ. 2 or 3 long balls is not going to stretch the field enough for the screens and reverses that Gus loves to run often. It's a reason why those plays have only gone for 2 or 3 yards. Teams are loading the box and they are defending against the screens/sweeps/reverses and long ball to Coates. Coates was doubled teamed on those catches and Nick threw perfect passes both times but i'm not sure our preference will be to continue to throw into double coverage. Teams know he has been our main target as a WR so it's logical that he's going to see a double team so we have to give teams another threat to take away the double team from Coates. Using the middle of the field can do that as well as opening up the run game even more.

Defenses sure are not making alot of mistakes so we must make adjustments and we have not done much of that thus far. I'm patient but i also have eyes and eyes that see where adjustments can and should be made that can make us better and they are not big adjustments either.

Sure we ran alot of plays but if you look back closely at the game you'll see where it takes us too long to snap the ball on the last drive and in general. We could've ran more plays. I don't expect this the offense to be clicking on all cylinders yet not by far but i would like to see some adjustments made that can make us better and they don't have to be major. SEC teams are far too good to be trying to out run sideline to sideline. Get going down the dang field. That doesn't mean we have to throw 30+ bombs all the time or throw much; just have some sort of variety that will keep defenses 2nd guessing. There is a such thing as a 10 - 15 route. That's what we need more of and it will help open up the rest of the offense.

[doc4aday 1,887]

One thing I would like to know, as well as probably others, is how many plays have we run each game. I have heard CGM say that he wants to be able to run over 80 plays per game.