Coker

[FootballFanatic 4]

Saban pushes the score into the 40's before he pulls his foot off the gas. Unlike Tuberville who would pull off the gas when he had a 2 point lead.

Saban does it for perception purposes and he is correct. After the 40's mark he puts in back ups.

[McLoofus 35,182]

I don't worry about running it up, but that's unquestionably what Saban has done when he's played bad Auburn teams (when he plays good Auburn teams, he loses)

I don't know how you could come to that conclusion. 2012 Iron Bowl it was 42-0 at the half. We scored one more time in the 3rd and sat on it the entire 4th quarter and half the 3rd. Blake Sims was in the game during the 3rd quarter. We threw 3 passes in the 2nd half, none after the 9 minute mark of the 3rd quarter. We could have scored 100 that game.

In the previous year, the 42-14 game, we threw exactly 1 pass from the 9 min mark of the 3rd quarter on.

What Arkansas did to Nicholls St is running it up. What Spurrier used to do at Florida is running it up.

Yup.

The only crimes in the 2012 Iron Bowl- and 2011, and 2008 for that matter- were committed by Auburn employees.

[Barnacle 9,064]

I'm curious how much the economy has affected the rivalry. Alabama has enjoyed its boom of success post 2008. I'd be very interested in a sociological study done in this state on collective identity among Alabama and Auburn fans, particularly among the lower class.

Especially in a low economy, and especially among the lower class I think the rivalry and those people's affiliation with AU or UAT can become a person's identity. Where in the middle to upper classes people have other modes of identity that are more easily tied to economical status, materialism, social status, etc, being an Auburn or an Alabama fan gives the lower classes an opportunity to derive identity from something that in this state especially, can transcend class. That's where the worst of the worst comes from, in my honest opinion. I think that is true for both Universities, but probably more so for Alabama. Granted, I am biased, but for whatever reason, whether it be Alabama's timing in their recent success, or general perception and history, in my experience there are more members of the lower class who are Alabama fans than Auburn.

That doesn't forgive the rest of our fan bases, because we all derive some piece of our identity and self-worth from being an Auburn or Alabama fan. That isn't necessarily a bad thing so long as we are aware of it. People's pride and love for both school's is what makes the rivalry great, but when that pride and love spills into the realm of dependency, that's when trees get poisoned.

[BamaGrad03 0]

That doesn't forgive the rest of our fan bases, because we all derive some piece of our identity and self-worth from being an Auburn or Alabama fan. That isn't necessarily a bad thing so long as we are aware of it. People's pride and love for both school's is what makes the rivalry great, but when that pride and love spills into the realm of dependency, that's when trees get poisoned.

There's a lot of bad that comes with runaway success. It's going to be amplified when you have a larger than average portion of a fanbase who has unhealthily large part of their identity tied to that success. And that's what has happened to Alabama. It really manifests itself in different ways. I've noticed Auburn fans have become incredibly smug and superior - really fast. (Again, not all Auburn fans). When Auburn football is doing well, they fall into many of the same traps Alabama fans do. When Auburn sucks, you see a lot more of the "their fans didn't attend Alabama" commentary. And when Bama sucks, they tend to rail on the whole "Auburn is an ag school, Bama is the state university, etc"

Runaway success seems to amplify what's already wrong with any given fanbase.

[mcgufcm 4,107]

So BG, in all seriousness, let's give the full scenario. If Alabama looked utterly punchless and put up 140 yards of total offense in a game, and Auburn took a 19 point lead on an INT return in the fourth. You'd be okay with Malzahn going for two in the situation?!? Seriously? You f'ing went for TWO at the start of the fourth quarter in 2011, and you're claiming it wasn't running up the score? ON TOP OF THAT, Trent Richardson and the 1s were on the field pounding away the entire fourth quarter. So if Auburn was up 21 in the fourth against an impotent Alabama, you'd be okay with us leaving Marshall, CAP, and Grant on the field, with our starting OL to run the ball down your throat? That wouldn't be running up the score? Really? Give me a freaking break.

I might concede the 2012 game, but in 2008 and 2011, that was absolutely running up the score.

[Barnacle 9,064]

Runaway success seems to amplify what's already wrong with any given fanbase.

Right, and you might even be able to simplify it as far as whoever has the biggest fan base is going to get the most negative exposure. In this case, I think both are true for Alabama. But, that argument will get a lot of pushback here, and maybe even rightfully so.

[Ber798297 241]

but I believe you are off base and have no idea just how ugly your fan base can be.

And I'm guessing you think your fanbase is all roses.

Fans have a tendency to live in an echo chamber. And they minimize the bad apples in their own while maximizing those of their rivals. There's a reason I won't go to Auburn for the Iron Bowl anymore - but would visit for a different game. And it's not from an isolated experience. It's from many many bad experiences from bad Auburn fans. Does that mean the MAJORITY of Auburn fans are bad apples? Absolutely not. That'd be dumb to think that. Because if it were the case, it'd be impossible to have a game there.

If there are 200,000 fans in town on gameday, even 5% bad apples would mean there are 10,000 a**holes walking around campus causing trouble, 7 times a year. Which means the odds are pretty high that you're going to have a bad experience at some point on a college campus or in the state where those fans live. If 85% of the probably 5 million Bama fans were bad apples, then you'd have thousands of Harvey Updyke type scenarios, not one.

My original point of my comment was that this rivalry brings the worst out of both of our fanbases, and it didn't used to be that way. College football fandom as a whole is beginning to mirror society at large, and where it's headed ain't pretty.

I refuse to admit that Alabama fans are solely responsible for this rivalry turning so bitter.

No, I do not think the Auburn fan base is all roses. If you read my whole post, I said several times that we all have bad fans, Auburn included.

I am sorry you feel you cannot attend an Iron Bowl in Auburn. I don't know what was said or done to you but we all have bad fans and many attend the games so it is expected when you go into "enemy territory" to catch some flack. You just have to have tough skin. I've never been to Tuscaloosa for a game and probably never will but I will know that if I ever do, I need to lay low and ignore the a**holes. However, when it is outside of the stadium, outside of the campus, outside of the city and into the elementary schools, it's gone too far. Does it happen in Auburn if a child is a bama fan at an elementary school? Probably and that's sad.

I agree with you that the rivalry at times is no fun. I have many friends who are bama fans and we respect each other and keep the rivalry talk light. However, never did I say bama was solely responsible for the rivalry turning bitter. But the tree poisoning did not help it either...

[McLoofus 35,182]

Barnacle, I agree with you in theory, although I'm not sure the specific details of the current economic landscape are the main factor. I think it goes back further to the 60s and 70s. I don't have to go into details, but there was only one thing that the state could be proud of on a national level during those years, and that was bama football. It's easy to see why the many disenfranchised citizens in the state would hop on the bandwagon with a particular kind of fervor. A generation or two later, it's still not even close in terms of hardware, and bama has done plenty lately to galvanize that fanbase and their progeny.

It's the same thing in Georgia. We used to make the flies/dead Bear joke, but it's similar over here, and UGA hasn't won a title in 30+ years! Also, Georgia Tech is no Auburn, so it's even more pronounced in a way. You can also look at the pro teams in Boston. The economy is more robust up there, but a similar level of historical success (well, more recent with the Patriots and Red Sox) has given a lot of New Englanders something they wouldn't have otherwise.

It's easy to understand why the bama fanbase is what it is. It just still really sucks that the loonies are legion and they keep making themselves known in any number of crappy ways.

[Barnacle 9,064]

Barnacle, I agree with you in theory, although I'm not sure the specific details of the current economic landscape are the main factor. I think it goes back further to the 60s and 70s. I don't have to go into details, but there was only one thing that the state could be proud of on a national level during those years, and that was bama football. It's easy to see why the many disenfranchised citizens in the state would hop on the bandwagon with a particular kind of fervor. A generation or two later, it's still not even close in terms of hardware, and bama has done plenty lately to galvanize that fanbase and their progeny.

Right, and my perspective is obviously limited by my age (27) and recollection. I just look at recent history - down economy/great success as something that from what you are saying has acted as an amplifier to a long-standing trend. Although, I do think that economic status plays a large role in how fan base's are perceived, regardless of the economy. Education would be something else to look at.

It's easy to understand why the bama fanbase is what it is. It just still really sucks that the loonies are legion and they keep making themselves known in any number of crappy ways.

Definitely, and I don't think this is bias. For whatever reasons, the outliers are most often Alabama fans.

[wde21 344]

Well I find it comical that an Alabama fan cannot see the difference between Auburn and Alabama fans. There are bad fans on both sides but there is no comparison between the two. I have lived in Birmingham my whole life and rarely does a day go by that some Alabama fan doesn't have something derogatory to say about my Auburn tag, shirt etc. This has gone on since the bear era but I do think the Camback game in 2010 pushed them over the top. I saw many young kids with $cam Newton stickers and I am thinking, really? Why not a Go Bama button? My friend and I were taking a celebratory photo after the game when a grown man shoved us. (We are middle aged women) and yes most of them think the poisoning of the trees was funny. Defriended several friends on Facebook after that. I just think they liked making fun of Auburn during the bear years and now that we are on even footing they can't deal with it. There is a sense of entitlement that makes them that way. It is just their culture and I don't see it changing.

[BamaGrad03 0]

Runaway success seems to amplify what's already wrong with any given fanbase.

Right, and you might even be able to simplify it as far as whoever has the biggest fan base is going to get the most negative exposure. In this case, I think both are true for Alabama. But, that argument will get a lot of pushback here, and maybe even rightfully so.

Oh I agree completely.

So BG, in all seriousness, let's give the full scenario. If Alabama looked utterly punchless and put up 140 yards of total offense in a game, and Auburn took a 19 point lead on an INT return in the fourth. You'd be okay with Malzahn going for two in the situation?!? Seriously? You f'ing went for TWO at the start of the fourth quarter in 2011, and you're claiming it wasn't running up the score? ON TOP OF THAT, Trent Richardson and the 1s were on the field pounding away the entire fourth quarter. So if Auburn was up 21 in the fourth against an impotent Alabama, you'd be okay with us leaving Marshall, CAP, and Grant on the field, with our starting OL to run the ball down your throat? That wouldn't be running up the score? Really? Give me a freaking break.

I might concede the 2012 game, but in 2008 and 2011, that was absolutely running up the score.

If 2010 never happened, I don't think 2011 would have been as deliberate as it was. But we were blowing your doors off in 2010, and lost...And it's not like we scored 65 in 2011.

2008 was a backup throwing to a backup, and it was the read the QB was taught to make in that specific scenario against press man coverage. Though of all the running it up observations, this play would be the one that had the healthiest legs.

As far as the 85% comments that are so often flung about - think about this...let's say Alabama is made up of 65% Bama fans. I think that's a fair number, especially given the fact that you guys apparently don't allow sidewalk alumni. If you truly subscribe to the 85% number - then you have to be willing to admit that 55% of all Alabamians are bad apples. And I just don't believe that. I won't believe it about my fellow Alabamians, and I wouldn't if the situation was reversed.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

I agree 100% of bama fans are bad apples, and thats as knd as I can be

[McLoofus 35,182]

Barnacle, I agree with you in theory, although I'm not sure the specific details of the current economic landscape are the main factor. I think it goes back further to the 60s and 70s. I don't have to go into details, but there was only one thing that the state could be proud of on a national level during those years, and that was bama football. It's easy to see why the many disenfranchised citizens in the state would hop on the bandwagon with a particular kind of fervor. A generation or two later, it's still not even close in terms of hardware, and bama has done plenty lately to galvanize that fanbase and their progeny.

Right, and my perspective is obviously limited by my age (27) and recollection. I just look at recent history - down economy/great success as something that from what you are saying has acted as an amplifier to a long-standing trend. Although, I do think that economic status plays a large role in how fan base's are perceived, regardless of the economy. Education would be something else to look at.

No doubt. SSDD, maybe.

[FootballFanatic 4]

Id say 20% of Bama fans are really frustratingly annoying and rude. 5% are really nasty to others and delusional beyond belief. And 1% are crazy enough to do something like poison tree's or shoot another fan for not being serious enough.

That compared to the regular fan base of 10% - 2% - 0.01%.

Fans are nuts, just ask posthumously the Oklahoma fan that was executed for mourder on death row and his last words were "BOOMER SOONER!!"

[mcgufcm 4,107]

BG, I think you interpret the 85% differently than it's intended. My use of the term (and my understanding of its common usage) is that 85% of all Bama fans did not attend Alabama. It's not saying all sidewalk alumni are bad apples. It's saying that the VAST majority of the Alabama fanbase is made up of people who are associated with the football program and only the football program (or athletic department). They have nothing to do with the school. Personal observation, that's accurate. On top of that, I believe sidewalk alumni, as a group, are more likely to be under-educated and "bad apples".

[WarEagle84 0]

According to bg, bama and it's fan base is the most sinless football organization of all time, lol.

That's not what he said at all.

That's what he's insinuating!!

Not even close. I seriously doubt you lack the reading comprehension skills to comprehend what he said, so I can only conclude that your hatred for Bama makes you react like this. And that is exactly the point of this discussion. There are plenty here who delight in ripping bg just because he's a bama fan with little or no response to his actual statements. I would love to live in a world where we can disagree without being disagreeable, but whether it's politics, sports, or what kind of music you like, it seems that our society is increasingly OK with being disagreeable.

[tiger88 934]

I know a couple of 15% ers who are not nauseating. The best thing about them is they don't go to AU boards and whine and belly ache and twist the hell out of what someone says when they're on the weak side of an argument. They are respectable individuals.

[Auburnfan91 1,407]

See I just don't get that. Because it's not like Alabama fans were cheering the guy on. He's probably the most hated "Bama fan" you'll find among other Bama fans. Sure there were a few rednecks that thought what he did was great, but unless on is trying to confirm their bias, they'll see that those are in the vast minority.

Actually, he's hated by most Alabama fans because he embarassed Alabama and for being an idiot not because of what he did to the Toomer's trees. Alabama fans may hate the guy but they don't really hate what he did. "They were just trees". That's what the average Alabama fan thought about the Toomer's trees.

The minority of Alabama fans were the one's that helped raise money for the Toomer's trees. You don't have to listen to Finebaum callers to know that most Alabama fans really didn't care about the Toomer's trees.

[war eagle6 0]

According to bg, bama and it's fan base is the most sinless football organization of all time, lol.

That's not what he said at all.

That's what he's insinuating!!

Not even close. I seriously doubt you lack the reading comprehension skills to comprehend what he said, so I can only conclude that your hatred for Bama makes you react like this. And that is exactly the point of this discussion. There are plenty here who delight in ripping bg just because he's a bama fan with little or no response to his actual statements. I would love to live in a world where we can disagree without being disagreeable, but whether it's politics, sports, or what kind of music you like, it seems that our society is increasingly OK with being disagreeable.

That's your opinion captain save a turd! You don't know me and it's best we keep it that way!!!

[WarEagle84 0]

According to bg, bama and it's fan base is the most sinless football organization of all time, lol.

That's not what he said at all.

That's what he's insinuating!!

Not even close. I seriously doubt you lack the reading comprehension skills to comprehend what he said, so I can only conclude that your hatred for Bama makes you react like this. And that is exactly the point of this discussion. There are plenty here who delight in ripping bg just because he's a bama fan with little or no response to his actual statements. I would love to live in a world where we can disagree without being disagreeable, but whether it's politics, sports, or what kind of music you like, it seems that our society is increasingly OK with being disagreeable.

That's your opinion captain save a turd! You don't know me and it's best we keep it that way!!!

I'm sorry I made assumptions about your intelligence. I won't do it again. Thanks for making my point for me.

[war eagle6 0]

According to bg, bama and it's fan base is the most sinless football organization of all time, lol.

That's not what he said at all.

That's what he's insinuating!!

Not even close. I seriously doubt you lack the reading comprehension skills to comprehend what he said, so I can only conclude that your hatred for Bama makes you react like this. And that is exactly the point of this discussion. There are plenty here who delight in ripping bg just because he's a bama fan with little or no response to his actual statements. I would love to live in a world where we can disagree without being disagreeable, but whether it's politics, sports, or what kind of music you like, it seems that our society is increasingly OK with being disagreeable.

That's your opinion captain save a turd! You don't know me and it's best we keep it that way!!!

I'm sorry I made assumptions about your intelligence. I won't do it again. Thanks for making my point for me.

Whatever makes u happy! And I must say thank u for making my point true when I said that bg had some defenders on this board. Way to go radio!

[TexasTiger 12,964]

Give Sims his due.

[WarTim 3,456]

There are bg defenders. Lurkers and liars. ;-)

[TexasTiger 12,964]

There are bg defenders. Lurkers and liars. ;-)

And there are morons of all stripes.