Freddie Gray possibly had back surgery a week before his death.

[AUDub 11,158]

We could be talking about peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and eventually, someone would make a snide reference to Obama. Uncanny.

To repeat an old joke from earlier:

CNN: Obama appeals to Jif fans.

FOX: Obama declares war on Peter Pan and Skippy.

MSNBC: Obama enjoys the finest peanut butter the market can offer. All who disagree are racist.

Al Jazeera: 18 killed in drone strike in rural Pakistan

[Mims44 1,880]

We could be talking about peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and eventually, someone would make a snide reference to Obama. Uncanny.

To repeat an old joke from earlier:

CNN: Obama appeals to Jif fans.

FOX: Obama declares war on Peter Pan and Skippy.

MSNBC: Obama enjoys the finest peanut butter the market can offer. All who disagree are racist.

Al Jazeera: 18 killed in drone strike in rural Pakistan

LMAO

[AURaptor 1,125]

I like jif too.

[alexava 6,973]

I have said repeatedly i don't know how he was injured. Certainly don't know what happened in the van. I have a serious problem with charging the arresting officers. Their job is to regulate crime. He is a criminal. He gave cause for suspicion, he attempted to elude. .

When someone in your custody ends up in the shape he was, you better believe you're going to get charged with something. And he was arrested for possession of a "switchblade" which turned out to be untrue. Sorry, but that doesn't wash.

he ran for some reason. He had to be detained. He could have been released without charges later but you run you going downtown.

[TitanTiger 20,499]

I have said repeatedly i don't know how he was injured. Certainly don't know what happened in the van. I have a serious problem with charging the arresting officers. Their job is to regulate crime. He is a criminal. He gave cause for suspicion, he attempted to elude. .

When someone in your custody ends up in the shape he was, you better believe you're going to get charged with something. And he was arrested for possession of a "switchblade" which turned out to be untrue. Sorry, but that doesn't wash.

he ran for some reason. He had to be detained. He could have been released without charges later but you run you going downtown.

I'm sorry, but a black man seeing cops and running is not sufficient cause to detain him once you've determined he has nothing illegal on him and you didn't witness him do anything illegal. And when you make up a bull**** reason, you deserve to get in trouble for it.

[AURaptor 1,125]

alexava - you mean when a cop comes around & makes eye contact we have to stay still until they say " Simon says " ?

[AUDub 11,158]

alexava - you mean when a cop comes around & makes eye contact we have to stay still until they say " Simon says " ?

Comply or die

[AUFAN78 3,913]

We could be talking about peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and eventually, someone would make a snide reference to Obama. Uncanny.

To repeat an old joke from earlier:

CNN: Obama appeals to Jif fans.

FOX: Obama declares war on Peter Pan and Skippy.

MSNBC: Obama enjoys the finest peanut butter the market can offer. All who disagree are racist.

Al Jazeera: 18 killed in drone strike in rural Pakistan

[cooltigger21 0]

I have said repeatedly i don't know how he was injured. Certainly don't know what happened in the van. I have a serious problem with charging the arresting officers. Their job is to regulate crime. He is a criminal. He gave cause for suspicion, he attempted to elude. .

When someone in your custody ends up in the shape he was, you better believe you're going to get charged with something. And he was arrested for possession of a "switchblade" which turned out to be untrue. Sorry, but that doesn't wash.

he ran for some reason. He had to be detained. He could have been released without charges later but you run you going downtown.

Well considering the history of people ending up injured after an encounter with the BPD, it's not at all clear you are safer in their custody than you are trying to get away. Their history isn't the greatest in the world.

[alexava 6,973]

I have said repeatedly i don't know how he was injured. Certainly don't know what happened in the van. I have a serious problem with charging the arresting officers. Their job is to regulate crime. He is a criminal. He gave cause for suspicion, he attempted to elude. .

When someone in your custody ends up in the shape he was, you better believe you're going to get charged with something. And he was arrested for possession of a "switchblade" which turned out to be untrue. Sorry, but that doesn't wash.

he ran for some reason. He had to be detained. He could have been released without charges later but you run you going downtown.

Well considering the history of people ending up injured after an encounter with the BPD, it's not at all clear you are safer in their custody than you are trying to get away. Their history isn't the greatest in the world.

he should know.

[cooltigger21 0]

I have said repeatedly i don't know how he was injured. Certainly don't know what happened in the van. I have a serious problem with charging the arresting officers. Their job is to regulate crime. He is a criminal. He gave cause for suspicion, he attempted to elude. .

When someone in your custody ends up in the shape he was, you better believe you're going to get charged with something. And he was arrested for possession of a "switchblade" which turned out to be untrue. Sorry, but that doesn't wash.

he ran for some reason. He had to be detained. He could have been released without charges later but you run you going downtown.

Well considering the history of people ending up injured after an encounter with the BPD, it's not at all clear you are safer in their custody than you are trying to get away. Their history isn't the greatest in the world.

he should know.

If they run then maybe there is room for doubt up to the point when you have them in custody. Once a suspect is in custody then anything that happens to him is on the police department and the officer or officers involved to be specific. You place them in the back of the car or van in this case and proceed to take them to the station. You've got them subdued and in handcuffs. He can't do anything else that would justify any kind of mistreatment.

[homersapien 11,393]

This is the thing about language, guys. If people start using a word as a racial slur, it becomes a racial slur irrespective of its previous meanings or connotations.

Thug has been migrating in the direction of the black brute stereotype for several years now. Having a perfectly good word ruined by bigots sucks, but there are enough people who use thug in a racially-loaded manner that the newfound connotations can't be ignored.

I understand but my use of the word "thug" is meant to be negative for a reason. Now I have to go find another word to show my displeasure and I am lazy.

I guess I could just bring "ruffian" out from retirement. I may have to explain what it is meant to imply but what the hey. Don't see many people embracing that word anytime soon.

"Pull your pants up because you look like a RUFFIAN"

This is the thing about language, guys. If people start using a word as a racial slur, it becomes a racial slur irrespective of its previous meanings or connotations.

Thug has been migrating in the direction of the black brute stereotype for several years now. Having a perfectly good word ruined by bigots sucks, but there are enough people who use thug in a racially-loaded manner that the newfound connotations can't be ignored.

I understand but my use of the word "thug" is meant to be negative for a reason. Now I have to go find another word to show my displeasure and I am lazy.

I guess I could just bring "ruffian" out from retirement. I may have to explain what it is meant to imply but what the hey. Don't see many people embracing that word anytime soon.

"Pull your pants up because you look like a RUFFIAN"

Young ruffians!"

[alexava 6,973]

I have said repeatedly i don't know how he was injured. Certainly don't know what happened in the van. I have a serious problem with charging the arresting officers. Their job is to regulate crime. He is a criminal. He gave cause for suspicion, he attempted to elude. .

When someone in your custody ends up in the shape he was, you better believe you're going to get charged with something. And he was arrested for possession of a "switchblade" which turned out to be untrue. Sorry, but that doesn't wash.

he ran for some reason. He had to be detained. He could have been released without charges later but you run you going downtown.

Well considering the history of people ending up injured after an encounter with the BPD, it's not at all clear you are safer in their custody than you are trying to get away. Their history isn't the greatest in the world.

he should know.

If they run then maybe there is room for doubt up to the point when you have them in custody. Once a suspect is in custody then anything that happens to him is on the police department and the officer or officers involved to be specific. You place them in the back of the car or van in this case and proceed to take them to the station. You've got them subdued and in handcuffs. He can't do anything else that would justify any kind of mistreatment.

i agree.

[homersapien 11,393]

If I told my child that I would be teaching my child to use racist words. PERIOD!!!

I wasn't suggesting you do or would. I would certainly hope not. Merely a hypothetical.

I do not care where the pants hanging low started nor do I care. My son will not show his underwear. My son will not wear racially sensitive wording or pictures on his clothes. My son will not wear anything that has offensive wording or pictures of any nature. My son will not walk around with his shirt off unless swimming. My son will speak with respect to all adults and not use foul language. Once he is of age I will not dictate what language he uses with his peers and he will have freedom to decide. Just don't curse around me or other adults. I never had to discuss racial language with my oldest son because it is non existent in my environment and I don't perceive it being discussed with my younger son. He is free to express himself in any other way his generation does for the most part after that. He can wear his hat how he feels. He can wear skinny jeans (which make me cringe). He can wear oversized jeans as long as they fit at the waist.

Skinny pants? On boys? Why is that a thing!?

My oldest son raps so trying to bring up my use of "music industry" is a grasp in the dark to me. That is the language I picked up from him. My son was signed and made money in the "music industry" as a rapper that just happened to be white. He has since stopped rapping but still writes for other artists. I will not post his music here because of his use of foul language.

I'm used to foul language. I'm white as the new fallen snow, but I have a copy of Straight Outta Compton and many other Gangsta rap albums on my MP3 player.

Interesting on the music thing. My older bro got big locally here a decade or so ago and sniffed a hit that got a lot of airplay on the 107.7 X alt-rock station here in the 'ham. Band was called Adelayda.

Guilty as charged. NWA and 2 Live Crew seemed like the most liberating and awesome thing as a pre teen. Then I met a species called "girl". Not my proudest moments but definitely not ashamed of the experience of being given my own room to grow and experiment with making choices for myself. The horror of thinking that there is possibly still video evidence of my best friend and I doing a concert using songs by Newcleus.

Looked up Adelayda. Brought back memories of blaring "LIVE" in my moms Dodge Intrepid with my rigged up house speaker in the trunk.

I quickly found three songs and "Hung Up" is the one that fits into my range of sound that I like the best.

That was a great post Aubfig! My mouth only now closed.

I don't really get the rap thing, in fact, I pretty much have Greg Allman's take - "Rap is Crap". (Although I admit, I have heard some that I liked. I am totally unfamiliar with the genre.')

You guys are really interesting though.

[AURaptor 1,125]

From what I'm hearing, the cop(s) injured Freddie when they flipped him as he was cuffed & on the ground. Why the felt they had to get on top of him as he was cuffed & in custody , idk .

Just my speculation .

[MDM4AU 332]

"Thug" has been co-opted by bigots to perpetuate the old black brute stereotype.

Let's talk about this. I have called people of probably every race and nationality "thug" before. I know a white guy who shot his dad in the head this past Sunday because he wouldn't let him use the car. I called him a thug. But if I call a black person a thug for the same thing or cutting fire hoses while the FD tries to put out a fire, etc., it's racist?

(I'm honestly wanting to have an open discussion about this.)

[homersapien 11,393]

Officers charged:

http://www.cnn.com/2...eath/index.html

unless these officers turn on each other, i dont think this will stick. Too much unknown.

You might be right. Makes one wonder if something more provable that outright murder would be a better charge.

[aubfaninga 16]

If I told my child that I would be teaching my child to use racist words. PERIOD!!!

I wasn't suggesting you do or would. I would certainly hope not. Merely a hypothetical.

I do not care where the pants hanging low started nor do I care. My son will not show his underwear. My son will not wear racially sensitive wording or pictures on his clothes. My son will not wear anything that has offensive wording or pictures of any nature. My son will not walk around with his shirt off unless swimming. My son will speak with respect to all adults and not use foul language. Once he is of age I will not dictate what language he uses with his peers and he will have freedom to decide. Just don't curse around me or other adults. I never had to discuss racial language with my oldest son because it is non existent in my environment and I don't perceive it being discussed with my younger son. He is free to express himself in any other way his generation does for the most part after that. He can wear his hat how he feels. He can wear skinny jeans (which make me cringe). He can wear oversized jeans as long as they fit at the waist.

Skinny pants? On boys? Why is that a thing!?

My oldest son raps so trying to bring up my use of "music industry" is a grasp in the dark to me. That is the language I picked up from him. My son was signed and made money in the "music industry" as a rapper that just happened to be white. He has since stopped rapping but still writes for other artists. I will not post his music here because of his use of foul language.

I'm used to foul language. I'm white as the new fallen snow, but I have a copy of Straight Outta Compton and many other Gangsta rap albums on my MP3 player.

Interesting on the music thing. My older bro got big locally here a decade or so ago and sniffed a hit that got a lot of airplay on the 107.7 X alt-rock station here in the 'ham. Band was called Adelayda.

Guilty as charged. NWA and 2 Live Crew seemed like the most liberating and awesome thing as a pre teen. Then I met a species called "girl". Not my proudest moments but definitely not ashamed of the experience of being given my own room to grow and experiment with making choices for myself. The horror of thinking that there is possibly still video evidence of my best friend and I doing a concert using songs by Newcleus.

Looked up Adelayda. Brought back memories of blaring "LIVE" in my moms Dodge Intrepid with my rigged up house speaker in the trunk.

I quickly found three songs and "Hung Up" is the one that fits into my range of sound that I like the best.

That was a great post Aubfig! My mouth only now closed. :o/>

I don't really get the rap thing, in fact, I pretty much have Duane Allman's take - Rap is Crap. (Although I admit, I have heard some that I liked. I am totally unfamiliar with the genre.'

You guys are really interesting though.

The three of us sharing a few drinks... that would be interesting.

An agnostic, Catholic, and a Messianic believer. Just don't team up on me concerning creation and evolution.

[homersapien 11,393]

Yes, but the big issue is that their story isn't holding up to scrutiny. For instance (don't give me crap about the source, deal with the facts it points out):

http://www.dailykos....on-Freddie-Gray

The story that he thrashed around and hurt himself doesn't hold water. You don't get to all just clam up and shrug and act like you can't fathom how someone had the injuries he ended up with when he was entirely in your custody the whole time. I think at least some of them are going down.

It's funny to consider how "circumstantial" evidence is often denigrated, but it can convict you.

[WarEagle1983 2,185]

I have said repeatedly i don't know how he was injured. Certainly don't know what happened in the van. I have a serious problem with charging the arresting officers. Their job is to regulate crime. He is a criminal. He gave cause for suspicion, he attempted to elude. .

When someone in your custody ends up in the shape he was, you better believe you're going to get charged with something. And he was arrested for possession of a "switchblade" which turned out to be untrue. Sorry, but that doesn't wash.

he ran for some reason. He had to be detained. He could have been released without charges later but you run you going downtown.

I'm sorry, but a black man seeing cops and running is not sufficient cause to detain him once you've determined he has nothing illegal on him and you didn't witness him do anything illegal. And when you make up a bull**** reason, you deserve to get in trouble for it.

BINGO!

[WarEagle1983 2,185]

Officers charged:

http://www.cnn.com/2...eath/index.html

unless these officers turn on each other, i dont think this will stick. Too much unknown.

You might be right. Makes one wonder if something more provable that outright murder would be a better charge.

Probably trying to be careful not to over charge. I'm personally about a fair due process for everyone. Treat everyone fairly. Who knows what the outcome will be but investigate each situation in a fair manner without bias.

[AUDub 11,158]

Let's talk about this. I have called people of probably every race and nationality "thug" before. I know a white guy who shot his dad in the head this past Sunday because he wouldn't let him use the car. I called him a thug. But if I call a black person a thug for the same thing or cutting fire hoses while the FD tries to put out a fire, etc., it's racist?

(I'm honestly wanting to have an open discussion about this.)

Not necessarily. The context in which it's used is important. Any individual can be described as a thug with no racist overtones.

[AUDub 11,158]

The charges:

Officer Garrett E. Miller

1) Assault/second degree (10 yrs.)

2) Assault/second degree (10 yrs,)

3) Misconduct in office (8th Amendment*)

4) Misconduct in office (8th Amendment* )

5) False imprisonment (8th Amendment* )

Sgt. Alicia D. White

1) Manslaughter (involuntary) (10 yrs.)

2) Assault/second degree (10 yrs.)

3) Misconduct in office (8th Amendment*)

Officer Caesar R. Goodson Jr.

1) Second degree depraved heart murder (30 yrs.)

2) Manslaughter (involuntary) (10 yrs.)

3) Assault/second degree (10 yrs.)

4) Manslaughter by vehicle (gross negligence) (10 yrs.)

5) Manslaughter by vehicle (criminal negligence) (3 yrs.)

6) Misconduct in office (8th Amendment* )

Officer William G. Porter

1) Manslaughter (involuntary) (10 yrs.)

2) Assault/second degree (10 yrs.)

3) Misconduct in office (8th Amendment*)

Lt. Brian W. Rice

1) Manslaughter (involuntary) (10 yrs.)

2) Assault/second degree (10 yrs.)

3) Assault/second degree (10 yrs.)

4) Misconduct in office (8th Amendment*)

5) Misconduct in office (8th Amendment*)

6) False imprisonment (8th Amendment*)

Officer Edward M. Nero

1) Assault/second degree (10 yrs.)

2) Assault/second degree (10 yrs.)

3) Misconduct in office (8th Amendment*)

4) Misconduct in office (8th Amendment* )

5) False imprisonment (8th Amendment*)

[japantiger 4,051]

I have said repeatedly i don't know how he was injured. Certainly don't know what happened in the van. I have a serious problem with charging the arresting officers. Their job is to regulate crime. He is a criminal. He gave cause for suspicion, he attempted to elude. .

When someone in your custody ends up in the shape he was, you better believe you're going to get charged with something. And he was arrested for possession of a "switchblade" which turned out to be untrue. Sorry, but that doesn't wash.

he ran for some reason. He had to be detained. He could have been released without charges later but you run you going downtown.

Why does he have to be chased or detained at all? If he hadn't done anything; and there was no probably cause, what were they doing chasing him? I don't get that running is reason to "ruff and cuff" someone.

[WarEagle1983 2,185]

I have said repeatedly i don't know how he was injured. Certainly don't know what happened in the van. I have a serious problem with charging the arresting officers. Their job is to regulate crime. He is a criminal. He gave cause for suspicion, he attempted to elude. .

When someone in your custody ends up in the shape he was, you better believe you're going to get charged with something. And he was arrested for possession of a "switchblade" which turned out to be untrue. Sorry, but that doesn't wash.

he ran for some reason. He had to be detained. He could have been released without charges later but you run you going downtown.

Why does he have to be chased or detained at all? If he hadn't done anything; and there was no probably cause, what were they doing chasing him? I don't get that running is reason to "ruff and cuff" someone.

I'm certainly not a lawyer but i can understand them detaining him after he ran. I mean what if he would have shot/killed someone..then the officers would get blamed...why didn't you they check him out when he ran from them. That's very suspicious...why run if you have not done anything wrong. HOWEVER, where the officers messed up is when they detained and searched him and saw that he didn't have any weapons or anything else illegal on him...they should've let him go on his way after finding nothing. According to the states attorney's report the knife was legal so they had no reason to take him in.